back to article China reveals plan to pump out positive news about itself. Let's see what happens when that lands with social media fact-checkers

Chinese state-controlled media has revealed the nation's rulers have decided it’s time for a charm offensive. As reported by Xinhua: “This week, the leadership of the Communist Party of China (CPC) met to study an important subject -- strengthening the country's international communication.” President Xi Jinping took the lead …

  1. Flip

    It'll take more than that

    Well, if China decides to hold open elections, stop the "re-education" of religious minorities, and allows Hong Kong to manage its own affairs, I'll be more inclined to listen to the propaganda. Until then, not so much.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It'll take more than that

      I'll add to your list:

      - non-stop, rampant industrial and military espionage, stealing anything they can from the West,

      - militarization of international waters,

      - dissemination of propaganda to destabilize Western nations using an army of paid social media trolls,

      - "wolf warrior" diplomacy that seeks to delegitimize, discredit and slander anyone anywhere who dares to criticize the country,

      - refusing to accept that Taiwan is an independent country that really doesn't want to be ruled again by China, and lobbying to lock it out of the international order,

      - plunging countries across Eastern Europe and Africa into debt-bondage via the innocuously-named Belt and Road initiative,

      - subverting African nations and looting their natural resources on a scale that makes Western colonialism look positively benign,

      - holding innocent Canadian businessmen hostage in tit-for-tat petulance because one of their own got caught red-handed breaking international sanctions.

      Yeah. Until they cease all of the above, and probably a thousand other behaviours that "civilized" nations tend not to do, Winnie the Pooh Xi and his toxic socialist system can kiss my ass.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It'll take more than that

        June 4th tomorrow. What happened in Beijing on that date in 1989?

        1. Arthur the cat Silver badge
          Trollface

          Re: It'll take more than that

          June 4th tomorrow. What happened in Beijing on that date in 1989?

          "Nothing. Absolutely nothing". – Xi Jinping

          1. sev.monster Silver badge
            Childcatcher

            Re: It'll take more than that

            "What a wonderful morning. Let's get coffee." — Xi Jinping while running over children in his tank

      2. Sherrie Ludwig

        Re: It'll take more than that

        I'll add to your list:

        And not recognizing that Taiwan is a separate country.

    2. John Sager

      Re: It'll take more than that

      Yup. We judge you by your actions, not by what you say.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Facepalm

        Re: It'll take more than that

        The sad thing is that we don't. The masses judge by what the influencers they follow say.

  2. IamAProton

    Chinese people are generally friendly and hardworking but anything coming from the communist party need to be treated as dangerous as it is.

    If they feel the need to start a large scale social media campaign (aren't they doing this already?) is because they are trying to limit the damage that is happening now, simply because people are getting more informed about the commies. Youtube channels like China Uncensored definitely help, but their reach is limited.

    Using western social media (which is banned in China, but used by their politicians for propaganda) is a smart move, free and not government controlled ( and in this regards, it should be)

    Will the social media kick them out? They do ban politicians if they want, but seeing that CCP officials still have their accounts makes me feel uncomfortable.

    1. Adelio

      maybe there should be tit for tat bans of social media. If facebook is banned in china then facebook should ban all official and unofficial propaganda from China

    2. alain williams Silver badge

      A people & their government are different

      Chinese people are generally friendly and hardworking but anything coming from the communist party need to be treated as dangerous as it is.

      Your typical Chinaman is pleasant and friendly, I know several. The Chinese government causes me great concern.

      This happens in many places:

      I have Israeli friends but despise how the Israeli government treats the Palestinians.

      Dictator Alexander Lukashenko is not typical of Belarus peoples.

      etc

      1. Cuddles

        Re: A people & their government are different

        It's almost as though people are generally just people, no matter where they happen to have been born.

  3. Mark Exclamation

    First thing they need to do is tell the truth. But that ain't never gonna happen. Corrupt, unethical, dishonourable, violent, liars are words that come to mind when the Chinese Communist Party is mentioned.

    1. Precordial thump Silver badge

      All reactionaries are paper tigers.

      It's come to something when the most positive thing that could happen for the well-being of the people of a communist country is a socialist revolution.

    2. ThatOne Silver badge
      Devil

      > Corrupt, unethical, dishonourable, violent, liars are words that come to mind

      Truth be said, those are the defining traits of any politician worldwide, aren't they...

      1. iron Silver badge

        Certainly sounds like the former US administration and every UK government I can remember.

        1. Mark Exclamation

          Didn't think it would take long for the CCP trolls to get in on the act.

        2. Cliffwilliams44 Silver badge

          The world will become a much brighter place when you remove your head from the darkest part of your anatomy!

  4. martinusher Silver badge

    Pushback against decades of propaganda might be futile

    In the West we've been schooled from birth in the "Four Legs Good, Two Legs Bad" way of political thinking. I generally avoid talking to most people here in the US because they brand politicians they don't like as "Marxists" and yet they have no idea who or what Marx is or was, a sure sign of a brainwashed population.

    For the record, Marx originated a particular school of economic theory. It wasn't particularly novel or radical at the time (1840s) but the his analysis of the relationship between capital and labor is as valid today as its always been. The people that wove political theory around this were from a later period such as the Russian revolutionaries came from a different generation. The Chinese communist party initially adopted this political theory but dumped in in the 1920s for something more relevant to their society.

    The Chinese themselves refer to something they call "the century of humiliation", the period in their recent history where they were at the mercy of first western colonial powers and then Imperial Japan. Much of the country was backward with no roads and few railways. The western powers just exploited them but the Japanese visited all sorts of horrors on them. The Chinese gradually wrested control of their country but instead of it being united under what was essentially a western puppet -- the RoC -- the communists took over with the rump RoC government retreating to Formosa (Tiawan). Its progress since then has been remarkable, and we ignore it at our peril. The Chinese message is simply "we did this in a generation, you can do it too", its a message that's not directed at 'the west' but at the countless millions that live in poverty around the world.

    We like to pride ourselves on how free and democratic we are. The reality is a bit more nuanced. If you live in the US you'll be aware of the extraordinary attempts to curtail democracy in many states. Many European governments, particularly in the East, have proto-fascist governments (we don't like to use that word so we use the polite alternative -- 'authoritarian'). We're constantly financing and 'advising' groups that promise to undermine governments that don't toe our line (in the US the primary agent of state funded regime change is the National Endowment for Democracy but the British are active in this area, too). We push and probe and when governments react to our attempts to undermine them we go on about 'democracy' but the reality is that we fear alternative economic systems, especially ones that work. They set a bad example.

    1. Denarius

      Re: Pushback against decades of propaganda might be futile

      so where in your apology for China's warlords of the past followed by never ending corrupt exploitative governments do you get to the incredible idea that socialism, whatever that code word for brutal dictatorship by clerks, bureaucrats and the odd sociopath means, actually works, anywhere, anytime ? So far, the only system of economics that seems to work is a fairly free market and that only in societies developed enough to have at least common high school education, avoiding fatalism, and other forms of superstition like divine right of kings, special interest groups, including tribalisms of all kinds. A strong community ethic helps immensely.

      1. Adelio

        Re: Pushback against decades of propaganda might be futile

        is not the problem with most of these "socialist" states that what they really mean is that the people running the party get all the goodies and the rest of the people slave to keep the party leaders in power.

    2. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: Pushback against decades of propaganda might be futile

      I am sure there is plenty of ignorance about Marxism and this is an excellent time to do something about that.

      Let's start with Marx's slogan: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Clearly all skilled hard working people should work themselves to death for a pittance so that the cluelessly incompetent and just plain idle can party every night.

      Marx also places no value in capitol investment. You are welcome to demonstrate your commitment to this philosophy by lending me your pension fund at 0% interest and I will pay you back when I am dead.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Pushback against decades of propaganda might be futile

      Yeah, whataboutism.

      Governments in democratic societies are very far from perfect. Governments in totalitarian dictatorships are much further from perfect.

      Mao was a lazy, sadistic con-artist who saw Soviet cash as a way to ultimate power, and he pulled it off through good luck and devious politics.

      The Chinese Communist Party of today are the continuation of Mao’s authoritarian, dictatorial bullshit. They kill and oppress their own people if they threaten their hegemony and they’ll do the same to all of us if we let them.

      The Chinese people I know are mostly decent folk, just like non-Chinese folk are mostly decent. Unfortunately many of them seem to believe the lies they’ve been told all their lives that China’s success relies on the CCP.

      The Chinese people are perfectly capable of being a great nation without the CCP or dictatorship, and one day they will be.

      But the CCP, it can go fuck itself with its soft power.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Pushback against decades of propaganda might be futile

        re: your comment about individual Chinese people.

        That's only true if they no longer have any relatives living in China. If they do then you should expect them to lie, cheat, steal, and then move back to China with everything you hold dear. I've seen this first-hand, and short of firing and prosecuting them, there's nothing that can be done to prevent it.

    4. Chris Miller

      Re: Pushback against decades of propaganda might be futile

      Marx originated a particular school of economic theory. It wasn't particularly novel or radical at the time (1840s) but the his analysis of the relationship between capital and labor is as valid today as its always been.

      Indeed it is, if by "valid" you mean "completely false and based on no evidence whatsoever". The 100+ million dead (and still counting) directly caused by those following Marxist precepts, is merely an incidental bonus.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Pushback against decades of propaganda might be futile

        His analysis is interesting - in a time when capitalism did really exploited people - it's his conclusion that are deadly wrong. He was against religions, but tried to found a new one.

        And luckily not everybody pushed them so far - moderate Socialists well understood reforms didn't need bloody revolutions, rights suppression, and dictatorships - that even when "in the name of the people" are still bloody dictatorships - and drive any nation right into the direction of exploiting people again, just under a different guise.

    5. razza

      Re: Pushback against decades of propaganda might be futile

      tl:dr

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Pushback against decades of propaganda might be futile

      Pushback against decades of propaganda might indeed be futile, and the various replies to this thread confirm it... You can discuss opinions, but you can't discuss convictions, especially when a person's whole world view depend on them.

      In reality systems of government are never what they claim to be anyway, they *all* try to make you believe you're much better off here than anywhere else, and having heard that since your infancy, you usually tend to believe it.

      (For the record, I'm not advocating communism, so don't bother explaining how misguided I am.)

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Its progress since then has been remarkable"

      Yes, especially that of those "bad people" who went to Taiwan or where shielded for a while in Hong-Kong... think of what China could have been if if wasn't heavily damaged by Mao, his wife and their crooks - who killed millions. Moreover, who helped China to fight Japan? How worse could have been, without that help?

      Now Xi Jinping aims to be the next Mao, and removed even those little safeguards China had after Mao. Of course actually nominating oneself some kind of lifetime emperor is a very Marxist thing - "power to the people!" - of course there is only One People.

      "Many European governments, particularly in the East, have proto-fascist governments" ????

      Actually there are only two - Poland and Hungary. Plus Belarus and Russia, if you wish to include them but they are not "proto" at all - but they are the offspring on that other "Marxist" marvel that was CCCP. People like Putin should have professed a lot of Marxists beliefs, to become Colonel in the KGB.

      Maybe you also mean people like Salvini in Italy? Do you know he was a "Young Communist", hanging out at collectives? Because, after all, the boundary between Communism and Fascism is very thin, and moving from one to the other very easy. After all, Mussolini himself was a prominent Socialist before founding the Fascist Party (the Communist Party didn't exist yet in Italy at the time - they detached from the Socialist Party only in 1921).

    8. Pascal Monett Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: we fear alternative economic systems, especially ones that work

      I think you might need to revise your economic cookbook.

      The only reason China is on the rise now is because the Communist Party of China has realized that it would do best to let its companies function following the Capitalist regime, with a bit of good ol' Communist control to maintain everything in proper Politburo order.

      The Great Leap Forward was a great leap backward in productivity, and it took decades of hardship and starvation for the Glorious Party to realize that and accept it.

      The ideal of communism, that everyone has a share of everything and nothing belongs to one man, has been systematically ruined in all so-called communist states by a ruling party that set themselves above all their "comrades" and own expensive datchas, high-powered cars and lots of security personnel, which in turn allows them to dictate absurd and counter-productive orders without fear of reprisal.

      Capitalism, for all its faults, is a vastly more egalitarian economic regime.

      1. Cliffwilliams44 Silver badge

        Re: we fear alternative economic systems, especially ones that work

        "The only reason China is on the rise now is because the Communist Party of China has realized that it would do best to let its companies function following the Capitalist regime, with a bit of good ol' Communist control to maintain everything in proper Politburo order."

        That is called Fascism!

    9. Draco
      Big Brother

      I see the CCP is already starting their disinformation campaign

      >> The Chinese message is simply "we did this in a generation, you can do it too", its a message that's not directed at 'the west' but at the countless millions that live in poverty around the world.

      I also hope the "poor" around the world also know that "benevolent" Chairman Mao, at the 1957 Communist Summit in Moscow, said:

      People say that poverty is bad, but in fact poverty is good. The poorer people are, the more revolutionary they are. It is dreadful to imagine a time when everyone will be rich.

      >> For the record, Marx originated a particular school of economic theory. ... The people that wove political theory around this were from a later period such as the Russian revolutionaries came from a different generation. The Chinese communist party initially adopted this political theory but dumped in in the 1920s for something more relevant to their society.

      Which political theory? The one that embraced with gusto authoritarianism, terror, oppression, and bloodshed? That is all part of Marxism as espoused by Marx himself:

      "We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror." - Neue Rheinische Zeitung (1849)

      "[T]here is only one way in which the murderous death agonies of the old society and the bloody birth throes of the new society can be shortened, simplified and concentrated, and that way is revolutionary terror." - Neue Rheinische Zeitung (1848)

      While the following is from Engels and not Marx, it shows that the thinking was "the bloodier and harsher, the better":

      "A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon — authoritarian means, if such there be at all; and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire in the reactionists. Would the Paris Commune have lasted a single day if it had not made use of this authority of the armed people against the bourgeois? Should we not, on the contrary, reproach it for not having used it freely enough?" - On Authority (1872)

      Marx and Engels ended their address to the Communist League of London in March 1850 with: Their battle-cry must be: The Permanent Revolution.

      Peace is not at the core (or even periphery) of Marxism - a constant, unending revolution is.

    10. sev.monster Silver badge

      Re: Pushback against decades of propaganda might be futile

      Everything you said was absolutely true.

      But yet managed to ignore the countless amount of blood that was spilled. Nor how much the PRC likes to steal and recreate the West's technology for its own financial and economic gain. Nor how much power and influence they have over a significant amount of the world by leveraging that. Nor how they reeducate and brainwash those that speak out. Nor the massive surveillance network that covers the entire country that can tell if you sneeze in an un-Chinese way, and dock you for it. Nor the foreign prisoners they routinely hold to help bolster political power as bargaining chips. Nor the near constant meddling in foreign policies and governace via espionage.

      The country was able to build so fast because the government forced the people to, and no one stopped them. Let's not forget the massive amount of Chinese land that is used by co-op farm projects, filled with the poor and the old, with no intention of uplift from the government, because their output is too needed. Where are their skyscrapers and infrastructure? Where is peace and land for the Uyghurs and other minorities that were conquered? Hong Kong? Belt and Road? What about these things?

      Yes, China is a marvel, an example of a shining paragon of technical prowess and authority. All of it built on lies, theft, control, and the backs of an unwilling workforce.

    11. Cliffwilliams44 Silver badge

      Re: Pushback against decades of propaganda might be futile

      Marx's entire thesis was based upon his observations of the plight of the loom weavers in England when the invention of the power loom put many of them out of jobs (many were independent contractors) He saw this as the oppression of working people by industry when the textile industry put these people out of work with no care for their plight! He foresaw this as something that would continue on every industry and result in the collapse of the Capitalist system.

      He was completely wrong! Most of these people eventually found gainful employment or business opportunities. The capitalist system continues to succeed and raise millions of people out of poverty in the decades after Marx.

      1. mattje

        Re: Pushback against decades of propaganda might be futile

        Evidence says that you're right up until a point; capitalism has raised millions out of poverty.

        However, in the West since the 1970's, real wages have stagnated, and an uber wealthy 1% have sucked up most of the resources. Yes Bezos etc.

        Marxism is not the answer, but Capitalism needs to work for the majority, not the other way around.

  5. Pete 2 Silver badge

    You say stop and I say go go go

    > international discourse that matches with China's comprehensive national strength and international status

    > China can resist criticism if fact-checkers reject its output.

    Which leads to the question: what will those "fact" checkers have to base their checking on? If China puts out a story regarding some aspect of (for example) how fast their latest train is, will a fact checker in some foreign country have access to more reliable information that refutes the chinese claim?

    Or will this just turn into a battle of propaganda: with each side - the chinese news media and western fact checkers - pushing out contradictory material with no proof from either one.

    So just leaving it to readers or media outlets to decide which version of the truth they think their audiences would prefer to believe.

    1. Denarius

      Re: You say stop and I say go go go

      Indeed. Fact checking assumes reliable information is available. Across borders it rarely is.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: You say stop and I say go go go

      The CCP should only be allowed to post on "Western" platforms that are freely available in China.

      The fact-checking can then be partly informed by China's "voters".

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Let's be clear...

    The Chinese people suffered under Communism. The Government aligned themselves with Russia. Then in the late 1970s, a smart Chinese Government official said "It doesn't matter what colour the cat is, as long as it catches mice" decided to loosen up and reach out to the West.

    That decision (and the fact that the West agreed to support it) along with hard work, got China to where it is now. The assumption always was that the "loosening up" would continue, until there would be some form of Democratic system - like Eastern Europe now.

    There is one thing that you have to understand. The CCP *must* blame other people. Damage done by the Cultural Revolution is blamed on Japan. Unrest is blamed on Uighurs and Terrorists. The failure of Mao is blamed on NATO. This is their ultimate weakness: cover up, rather than admit and fix.

    Chinese Government today looks nothing like Capitalism, Socialism, Communism or Marxism. It's a paranoid mess of an out-of-touch government trying to take credit for the hard efforts of people working at TenCent, etc. The more they lose control, the more weird policies they introduce, and Chinese people are informed enough to see that.

    (Not that the US/UK Governmental systems don't screw up big on a regular basis too, of course. Politicians there just have the sense to admit it when forced to.)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Let's be clear...

      And the sensitivity of the CCP to any form of criticism sure looks like weakness to me.

    2. razza

      Re: Let's be clear...

      first half was right, but second bit not so for me. They big boys do sometimes know what they are doing. It does include some of the factors u mention but also getting Hong Kong back and knowing they were helped tons. They pretty much photocopied that.

      Also, the work done by the Americans in Japan proved a simple template that Korea, Vietnam and almost all there have are copying. And finally, the USA/UK invention of the web. All these elements produce a sum greater than themselves - magic.

    3. iron Silver badge

      Re: Let's be clear...

      > Not that the US/UK Governmental systems don't screw up big on a regular basis too, of course. Politicians there just have the sense to admit it when forced to

      When was the last time a UK politician admited to their screw up instead of resigning "to spend more time with their family" or just said "yeah I broke the ministerial code but I don't give a shit, what are you going to do about it?"

      Politicians are thieves and liars the world over.

  7. razza

    They aren't listening. They don't give a f-ing pooh about outsiders. Read that Terry Pratchett book he based on Asia. It is like that. Still. Robots.

    The thing about China to me is that they are old hands at civilisations. They have been through the stages the West in going through and it didn't work. I have a lasting image of their ingrained 'coldness' that they can switch on to outsiders and it's powerfully passive aggressive and uniquely Chinese. Generally, I like 'em but not so much if I have to battle them over something especially on their home ground.

    The list above of bad things they have done is small compared to the British Empire.

    But worst of all was seeing how terrible the Jesus & Mary Chain look. OMG. And the interview with the responses like, "We make music for ourselves", and gushing Asian fans - not even crazy sexy Japanese ones that we men would all like have a picnic with - or 2gen J-Pop-style K-Poppers. No 3-gen C-Popper/Rockers "Cool" wannabes - bless them and why not enjoy? Was expecting Alan Partridge to pop out at anytime. JMC u've spolit my memory of Psychocandy. Now I see this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJvGdOC6D1Y

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I had to check this wasn't an amanfromMars post by the last paragraph.

  8. N2
    FAIL

    Were actually very nice people

    If you think otherwise, you may disappear...

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    socialism with Chinese characteristics

    Aka Totalitarianism.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    People yes, Party no !

    Too late now they have trashed the whole planet !

  11. Cliffwilliams44 Silver badge

    The Chinese are not Marxists nor Communists, they are Fascists! If you look at the policies of "True" Fascist governments in Italy and Spain in the early 20th century the Chinese are doing the exact same thing. Close cooperation with private industry, the state directly supporting and overseeing private industry and now a strong single Leader. This is Fascism by every definition. It is just the Chinese will never admit this.

    This is the model being embraced by much of the neo-Leftist in the west. In America the Left is getting more and more embedded with large corporations and actively undermining small and medium businesses. They have used the Covid lock-downs to achieve these goals by allowing Walmart, Krogers, Target, etc. to stay open yet the local restaurant or boutique store could not. The same is true with minimum wage laws, large corporations can absorb these increases while small/medium businesses cannot.

    The Left calls everyone opposed to them Fascists when in truth that is exactly what they are.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    China's new effort reminds me of a certain political party in the US - really interested in throttling democracy, prone to pumping out poorly thought out heavy handed draconian laws that come back to bite them, unable to take any action without consulting a Dear Leader, and when all else fails, starting a blog with great fanfare.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    CPC promoting Marxism?

    Given Marxism hasn't been practiced in China since Mao died I'll be intrigued to see what nonsense Jinping pushes out

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: CPC promoting Marxism?

      Marx was just another know-it-all dude with no evidence and no understanding that advocating violent revolution would guarantee the rise of the most violent humans, who are the least likely to abandon the power it gives them.

      No one really practiced Marxism. Mao practiced Maoism. Stalin Stalinism. Lenin Leninism. Xi is practicing Xiism.

      Maybe Lenin and Stalin believed in Marxism, well Stalin at least in the beginning, but Mao? Never, the fellow was an opportunistic bullshit artist.

      None of them seemed to make it past phase 2 of Marx’s vision, funny that…

      “My own contribution was 1. to show that the existence of classes is merely bound up with certain historical phases in the development of production; 2. that the class struggle necessarily leads to the dictatorship of the proletariat;[1] 3. that this dictatorship itself constitutes no more than a transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society.”

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like