back to article US aviation regulator warns of mid-air collision risk if Garmin TCAS boxes are not updated

American aviation regulators have ordered private jet operators to install software updates for Garmin collision avoidance units after multiple reports of false alarms – raising the risk of a mid-air crash. The affected Garmin products, its GTS 8000 series, generated seven false Traffic Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) …

  1. Version 1.0 Silver badge
    Joke

    Misturst in techknowedgy (sic)

    Gosh, does this mean that airplanes will need to have human pilots in future? I don't trust technology but maybe I should turn auto-correct back on?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Misturst in techknowedgy (sic)

      I think it definitely demands the re-introduction of Clippy.

      "Hi, it looks like you're trying to crash the plane. Would you like to have some help with your aim?"

      Sarcasm aside, it's good that this is being corrected. It can't be very comforting to get a TCAS alarm for something that doesn't appear that close on your radar.

  2. David 132 Silver badge
    Happy

    Can I just say that I love the euphemism there...

    “Actual loss of separation” is a lovely way of saying, “they’ll get butt-clenchingly close to each other”!

    1. John Doe 12

      Re: Can I just say that I love the euphemism there...

      Been on a 737 where this happened. It was a sudden case of climb, turn, full power to the engines while us passengers cling onto the seats in front of us wondering WTF is going on!!

      https://news.aviation-safety.net/2013/02/12/serious-loss-of-separation-incident-involving-multiple-aircraft-at-helsinki-finland/

      1. Version 1.0 Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Can I just say that I love the euphemism there...

        I've been there just as the plane was about to land in North Carolina, "sudden case of climb, turn, full power to the engines while us passengers cling onto the seats in front of us wondering WTF is going on!!" and then the pilot said, "Sorry about the sudden turn, I saw a tornado crossing the runway as we headed in" - I have a lot more trust in a pilot than an autopilot.

        1. Gene Cash Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: Can I just say that I love the euphemism there...

          > I saw a tornado crossing the runway as we headed in

          I would have wondered what a British fighter plane was doing in North Carolina!

          1. seven of five

            Re: Can I just say that I love the euphemism there...

            Could have been a german or italian strike craft as well..

          2. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge
            Coat

            Re: Can I just say that I love the euphemism there...

            A steam locomotive would have been even more disconcerting.

            1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

              Re: Can I just say that I love the euphemism there...

              I believe there is at least one airport which has a railway line crossing the runway.

      2. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

        Re: Can I just say that I love the euphemism there...

        Had something similar coming into SFO in a big plane (B747 or A380, I forget which). We were right at the end of the approach, wheels down, when there was the unmistakable sound & feel of the engines spooling up again and the gear coming up. The map display showed the height reading suddenly climbing as we curved back out over the bay . More a "what's up?" than "WTF?" moment, but disconcerting all the same.

        As we levelled off the pilot came on the intercom "Sorry about the go-around, folks, but there was another aircraft on our runway". I'm glad he was paying more attention than the control tower seemed to be...

        1. EricM

          Re: Can I just say that I love the euphemism there...

          At busy airports you start most approaches under the assumption that the plane on the runway several miles in front of you - which just also landed or ís preparing for take off - moves itself out of the way well before you actually reach the tarmac.

          Sometimes this does not work out in which case the approaching traffic is instructed by the tower to go around.

          That is quite a routine process and not necessarily a sign that the tower did not pay attention...

          1. ChrisC Silver badge

            Re: Can I just say that I love the euphemism there...

            And at really busy airports, you'll often have several aircraft strung out in the sky at differing points of their final descent, so unless you're at the head of that string then it's not just the one already on the runway that you need to be concerned about.

            My last such experience was arriving at Heathrow on a 777 from Shanghai - having burned off most of the fuel load it'd hauled off the runway at the start of the flight, it proved just how sprightly a lightly-loaded modern airliner can be when needed.

            1. hoola Silver badge

              Re: Can I just say that I love the euphemism there...

              Then you have the military experience where "get it up asap" and "bang it down asap" are the important ones.

              Years ago I was on a C-130 into some place that had a huge runway but the operating practice was to bang it down on the threshold then slow down (very rapidly) in time for a taxiway so that we get to the military area, well away from the civil bits. It felt more like a controlled crash in what passed for seats.

        2. TaabuTheCat

          Re: Can I just say that I love the euphemism there...

          I've been in that other aircraft. Waiting at LGA to leave, plane after plane in line waiting their turn. We finally got to the front of the line, perpendicular to the runway but still on the taxiway so I could see the line of incoming planes headed for our runway. And then the captain decides to pull onto the apron, still hadn't made the left to point down the runway so my unobstructed view of an incoming plane about to land on that same runway was quite clear. Gear up, nose up, lots of smoke from the engines as he passed over us on a go-around. Bet he was pissed, and I was about shitting myself watching helplessly. Pilot never said a word, we ended up taking off immediately after that, and I'm not how many of the other passengers even knew what had just happened. You fly enough you get to see a lot of strange things.

          1. Cynic_999

            Re: Can I just say that I love the euphemism there...

            Almost certainly an ATC cock-up. It is extremely unlikely that after waiting at the entry hold to a runway, a pilot would enter the runway without receiving explicit instructions to do so from the tower. OTOH the pilot should also have done a visual check of the approach path before moving ...

    2. trevorde Silver badge

      Re: Can I just say that I love the euphemism there...

      "Actual loss of separation resulting in unscheduled rapid disassembly of both aircraft"

  3. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Coat

    Not to worry

    Given that Boeing is not involved here, I'm sure the FAA is doing its job properly.

    Mine's the one with the flight manuals that predate Boeing-embedded FAA employees.

  4. YetAnotherJoeBlow

    Very un-sexy

    I rode in a Shorts 360 in Honduras a long time ago. We were heavy and as it rolled down the runway you could feel every crack - you could run over a dime and tell if it was heads or tails.

    My seat for that adventure was a large cam shaft.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Very un-sexy

      My seat for that adventure was a large cam shaft.

      Are we supposed to ask how that was positioned, or is that a detail you would rather forget?

      :)

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Meh

    Joking aside

    It's nice to see that one US Agency has the power to force companies to apply software updates.

    It's sad that it's the only one.

  6. Tempest
    Meh

    There is More Wrong Than Just Garmin Than Just TCAS Boxes

    What more do you expect from a manufacturer whose main market is the domestic user? A friend has a Garmin TCAS in his Kodiak aircraft flying around Indochina and his Garmin TCAS/Suite parts spend more time flying from there to TaiWan for service. But, as my friend says, the empty hole in the dash is handy for sandwiches.

    Garmin has designed it's portable GPS66 so that many suffer damage WHEN (not IF) the battery leaks. Same design for years. And the rubber in the control panel feels like it uses recycled tires.

    If people are kitting out an aircraft, better to buy real professional gear from an aeronautical electronics outfit.

    1. ChrisC Silver badge

      Re: There is More Wrong Than Just Garmin Than Just TCAS Boxes

      Garmin manufacture consumer products, yes, and that *may* (I don't actually know, nor is it really relevant here) be their main market in terms of units sold/income/a.n.other metric, but it's a bit of a stretch to go from what the consumer products side of the company does, via the evidence provided by your friend based on their experiences with one particular example of their avionics product line, to making a rather sweeping accusation that the avionics side of the company isn't producing "real professional gear".

    2. hoola Silver badge

      Re: There is More Wrong Than Just Garmin Than Just TCAS Boxes

      Garmin were producing equipment for profession use long before all the consumer drive for GPS.

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