UK government opens vaccine floodgates to over-45s, NHS website predictably falls over

The UK's National Health Service is now offering COVID-19 vaccines to those aged 45 and above however the volume of interest has made the appointment-booking website prone to wobbles. Despite an impressive take-up by the over-50s, it appears healthcare bigwigs did not anticipate the demand once the over-45s were permitted to …

[John Robson]

Good thing that it's not going to be needed by those of us who are clinically vulnerable to book our second jabs (since you could only book one when we were invited to book, and we won't be able to book the second until a few days before it's due, and I have to get it on a specific day to fall between other medications which would have a significant impact on the chance of the vaccine doing anything useful anyway).

[IGotOut]

So your real issue is not the availability of the vaccine, but your availability to have it on any given day.

So what? Everyone else has to wait for you, even if they live 300 miles away?

And chances are, this will be one of the alternative jabs, so not applicable to you anyway.

[John Robson]

No - my issue is that if the load is such that the system can't cope then I, and others who are clinically extremely vulnerable, won't be able to book to have our second shot in an appropriate timeframe.

My timeframe is limited by the fact that I won't even get invited to book until eleven weeks after the first injection, and I have medication that is taken every other week which is specifically counter indicated by the vaccine documentation, so I need to schedule it to fall basically directly between those regular injections (the rest of my medications don't have counter indications).

So it's not an "I won't be able to book for a convenient time", and more an "I might not be able book a second shot at all", and certainly not within the recommended timeframe (which is already way outside the tested regime).

Those living 300 miles away from me won't likely affect my local vaccination centres, but they will affect clinically vulnerable people in their local areas, and everyone affects the booking system.

[Terry 6]

There seem to be two systems operating here.

Some people go online, book an appointment and are offered the second one with it.

I was sent a text telling me they were ready for me to book my appointment, which I did, to my local GP vaccination clinic. Then, in due course I received a text again telling me to book for my second jab (tomorrow - Wednesday morning as it goes). Probably this is because the local group were a couple of weeks ahead of the age schedule.

So, as far as I can work it out, if you use the NHS England route you book both together. If you go via the GP route it's one at a time.

[GioCiampa]

I too got a text for my first jab - though I'll confess I did wonder if it was genuine for a while...

...the day after the jab I got the email inviting me to book my first jab!

Left hand, right hand...

[John Robson]

The system is different for those of use who were booked in early - I got a text inviting me to book my first spot, which I did - scheduling it between two of my regular jabs - and I can’t book the second until I get a text for it.

My wife booked both appointments at the same time when invited as a carer just a handful of days later - which would have been much more sensible.

[chris street]

Ah, because of course taking into account peoples different health requirements is just too much for some people to contemplate?

What makes you think that the alternative jabs are not applicable?

[DS999]

You have to separately book the second one?

When my state opened up for everyone last week I booked my appointment and it made me book the second appointment at the same time. So I already know where I'll be on the afternoon of the 26th...

Booking them separately is a really bad idea as people won't get the recommended/tested gap between shots, or may not get it at all if it proves too frustrating trying to get the second one or simply forget or decide "eh, good enough".

And while it would probably be fine I'm sure neither Pfizer nor Moderna tested what happens if you get one vaccine for the first and a different one for the second.

[Ken Hagan]

Re: You have to separately book the second one?

That was my experience, too ... and my state is the UK so I am a little puzzled by all this talk of having to book a second date.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: You have to separately book the second one?

It appears to be appointments booked through your GP operate differntly to books through the NHS. It happened to my wife. The GP phoned up the other day to give her the 2nd appointment for next week. She also got her first appointment because the GP phoned her and offered it rather than having to book it herself.

Mine was done through the NHS, earlier than by age group because of my job. They gave me the second date appointment (in two more weeks) at the same time they gave me the first appointment.

[chris street]

Re: You have to separately book the second one?

My first was with GP - second booking direct through the NHS it knows you have already had the jab at the GP and takes account for it. The first jab will go on your SCR and then the system knows when and what to schedule you for for the second dose, and where as well (it iwll pick centres close to where your last jab was)

[TheProf]

2nd

That's odd. When I booked my first appointment the NHS site let (demanded!) me book the second appointment.

I have proof!

[TheMeerkat]

Re: 2nd

I think it is either depending on when you booked your first (I.e. before or after the system were updated to support two appointments), or whether you getting it because of your age (2 appointments through website) or due to be vulnerable (via GP with extra checks).

[chris street]

You can book it in advance now - I've had my second one lined up for about a month now and due soon. You will be given a weeks worth of appointment times to choose from so hopefully you can fit it ina amongst other medication issues.

[John Robson]

I *can't* book it now.... I have to wait for the next text.

Daft as a brush the system seems to be.

I don't have a particular issue with not being able to book until invited, but the change to booking your second jab at the same time as the first, should have been rolled backwards as well, so those who had already had one jab would be able to book their second jab as soon as the general process was to book both together.

[John Robson]

Well, I had the text - the booking service was absolutely fine... I mean, it only offered me choices of one day, and when I chose one slot it said it had already been taken, but the next one worked fine.

Will have to make a call next week to see if it can be shifted, I've made it as close as possible to the gap between my regular jabs, but I'd rather it was a couple of days later.

[Dwarf]

If only there was some way of flexing up and down on platform capacity in a cost-effective manner, then this sort of problem could be avoided.

[Wellyboot]

over 45s - over 50s

There can't be that much difference between the two groups in terms of numbers and willingness to jump straight onto the booking website?

[IGotOut]

Re: over 45s - over 50s

I think one difference us GPs were contacting the over 50s before the announcment for that group. I know by my parents they were doing the over 50's two weeks before the "announcement" as they were well ahead.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: There can't be that much difference ...

That's also what I would have thought - but, on the face of it, the evidence seems to differ.

[Anonymous Custard]

Re: There can't be that much difference ...

Had a GP contact text at lunchtime today inviting me for mine (I'm 49 tomorrow) at a regional centre.

That said I had already booked in anyway at the local hospital via the website first thing this morning (my better half is a former NHS pharmacist so is used to this kinda thing), and it's due to be in my arm Thursday lunchtime...

And will be very glad to have it, must say.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: There can't be that much difference ...

Everyone in the uk between 45 and 50. 66 million of us, 50 isn't massively old, say about 5% of the population in that range (assuming it's not equal all the way up to 100 but more crowded with the younger) is 3.3 million people. That's enough to stress the auto scaling behaviour.

[AndrewB57]

Re: over 45s - over 50s

Possibly an inverse relationship between age and mad interweb skillz

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: over 45s - over 50s

Yes, us oldies are actually competent - these young whippersnappers are probably clicking the wrong button or getting distracted by videos of fluffy kittens.

[richardcox13]

Re: over 45s - over 50s

When I (over 50 that I am) started using the internet, the introductory document started "The Internet is not just Usenet".

Where's my coat, it's the one with the Gopher RFCs in the pocket.

[Dave559]

Re: over 45s - over 50s

Do you realise how many hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars it could cost the net to transmit your message?

(Paraphrase of the warning from several usenet newsreader programs… :-D)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: over 45s - over 50s

My mum asked me to do her booking on her iphone as she couldn't read the text, I tried to take a screenshot of the confirmation and managed to hard power off the phone exactly as it was receiving the confirmation text with the code in it, which then disappeared into the æther.

[the spectacularly refined chap]

Re: over 45s - over 50s

There can't be that much difference between the two groups in terms of numbers and willingness to jump straight onto the booking website?

Think children of baby boomers. Someone age 54 now was born 1967. Someone age 49 was born 1972. If the boomers were all born 1945-50 then they were age 17-22 when they had children who are 54 but they were 23-28 for the younger cohort. The second camp is much closer to peak child bearing years, especially in an era where childbirth out of wedlock was still stigmatized. Yes, you can play around with ages and dates to a certain extent but you are always left with a second generation baby boom effect.

[Rich 11]

Re: over 45s - over 50s

You could spend your day speculating about baby boomers and their children, or you could just go look up the number of people who fall into each age category.

45-49: 4,402,122

50-54: 4,661,015

[Marki Mark]

"NHS Digital responded to say it was looking into the issue, directing us to this freshly laid Tweet."

I hate organisations that do that. Not everyone wants to use twitter to obtain information

[ThatOne]

> Not everyone wants to use twitter to obtain information

I personally agree with you, but if Twitter is good enough to govern the USA with, it must be enough to keep the masses informed...

[Just Enough]

NHS England <> "The UK's National Health Service"

As usual on The Register, it needs to be pointed out that NHS England <> "The UK's National Health Service"

You would have hoped by now that The Register journalists would have got the message that the NHS in the UK is not a single entity and each country of the UK is handling COVID vaccinations differently. But apparently not.

[iron]

Re: NHS England <> "The UK's National Health Service"

I came here to say exactly that.

> The UK's National Health Service

> If you’re over 45 and in England

So which is it Richard Speed?

There is not really an NHS UK - there is NHS England and Wales which is what El Reg usually means when they say NHS UK, there is also NHS Scotland and NHS Northern Ireland which have different policies, procedures and management. Not that the English journos at El Reg either know or care despite me pointing this out on every NHS story for the last 20 years because they always write NHS UK.

Learn to do your job properly Richard and investigate the details of a story for once.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: NHS England <> "The UK's National Health Service"

"there is NHS England and Wales"

AFAIK Wales want to do their own thing anyway, at least as far as prescriptions are concerned.

[katrinab]

Re: NHS England <> "The UK's National Health Service"

GIG Cymru (NHS Wales) is not the same as NHS England.

[chris street]

Re: NHS England <> "The UK's National Health Service"

Having worked at NHS Digital I can happily say you are both wrong. The NHS in England and Wales was established in 1946 and Wales was spun off into it's own area in 1969 I think. There are four constituents, NHS England, NHS Scotland (established 1947) NHS Wales and Health and Social Care for Northern Ireland (formed in 1948)

[Dave559]

Re: NHS England <> "The UK's National Health Service"

English people (in England [1]) generally just don't understand how devolution works, full stop.

This sort of basic gaffe appears far too often in reporting about organisations in the UK, where it is equally, if not more, common for them to operate differently in each of the 4 nations of the UK, rather than at a UK-wide level (or E&W level, at most).

[1] I know plenty of English people who live in Scotland who also get equally annoyed about this!

[John Robson]

Re: NHS England <> "The UK's National Health Service"

Some of us do get it, although we are mostly unaware because there is no English devolved parliament, and the other nation's MPs still vote on devolved English issues.

[H in The Hague]

Re: NHS England <> "The UK's National Health Service"

"... and the other nation's MPs still vote on devolved English issues."

Ah, the West Lothian Question.

This has largely been solved, I think, by the introduction of EVEL (English Votes for English Laws) in 2015:

https://www.parliament.uk/site-information/glossary/english-votes-for-english-law-evel/

I quote:

"The EVEL process is designed to ensure that legislation that affects only England, or England and Wales, is approved by a majority of MPs representing English constituencies, or English and Welsh constituencies."

[John Robson]

Re: NHS England <> "The UK's National Health Service"

Thanks for the correction - it’s still non obvious to the casual observer.

[peter_dtm]

Re: NHS England <> "The UK's National Health Service"

But EVEL is voluntary & SNP MPs continue to interfere in English legislation, IIRC they voted on English council funding amongst many other English laws.

[Anonymous Coward]

I booked mine today and it was a right palaver. First off I booked it on the NHS website first and second jabs. It didn't give me a booking reference and I have had no email. That's for Wednesday so how I'm supposed to go to that is beyond me. Can't rebook as it won't let me past the booking reference I don't have. I called my doctor but they can't help as it's a different system so now I'm booked with them on Saturday and can't cancel the other as I don't have a booking reference. The number I called is an automated one with no way to speak to a person. None of this was a surprise.

[Anonymous Coward]

Very similar situation.

I've a screen shot of my booking numbers, my wife's attempt got to the end and crashed so we think she has a booking but can't be sure as there is no confirmation number, but we can't "manage the booking" to check as the system needs the number we don't have to continue.

Neither of us have the promised email or text yet (6 hours later at time of writing)

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations ... you've hit the NHS Covid website GUI fail ... they've designed a system where you select dates and times, are then asked if you want to be sent email/text with the details, you then fill in email/phone details and go to another screen which displays the slected dates and times ... however, unless you click on the "submit now" button on this page you have not made a booking ... and the way that they dispaly the info on the screen means that if you've booked two appointments it very likely that the "submit now" button is off the screen and youo would have to scroll down to find it ... so many many people (me included) have gone through this process and seen what appears to be a confirmation of booking on the last page and thought the job was done. Fortunately I'd booked for one of the big vaccine centres and when I turned up they told me I wasn't booked in but as I could prove my age from my driving license and they had plenty of spare capacity that day I was vaccinated and I was told that this was a common occurrence ... however, I've heard that people in the same situation at small vaccine clinics 9e.g. at a local pharmacy here) have been turned away and told to book again.

[DS999]

Given what you say it sounds like the best solution for anyone in the UK reading your post is to go to one of the big vaccine centers without an appointment as they will undoubtedly have spare capacity from all the problems causing people to not show up due to confusion or making another appointment elsewhere.

No wonder the US is ahead of the UK is vaccination rates, if they've set up with a system that bad for making appointments!

[John Brown (no body)]

It's not as bad as it sounds. As is usual, the squeaky wheel makes the most noise.

It's a bit like the news we see out of the USA where they only seem to have out of town drive-thru vaccine centres then wonder why the less well off non-car owners in the city centres aren't getting vaccinated at the same rates.

Yes, I know that's not true everywhere, possibly not true anywhere, but that's what we see in the news here in the UK.

[Anonymous Coward]

Could be worse

At least you have a single website where you can book.

Here in France the government health website just lists the places where you can get vaccinated, with different criteria applied to different places. e.g "Pfizer for 70+", "health professionals only", "AstraZeneca for over 55s", etc. You then have to try each appropriate one in your your area, in turn, to see if they have any appointments. If they don't have an online presence (pharmacies, many GPs) you have to phone them, one by one. It's taken me two weeks to get an appointment, 30km away, and I ended up with two appointments because one organization contacted me two weeks after I'd made the request on their website, and after I'd already found an appointment elsewhere. Utter shambles.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Could be worse

I booked on the NHS website this morning as soon as I discovered I could, and got an appointment for a jab 15 miles away, on Friday next week. This afternoon, I got a text from my GP offering an appointment for a jab 10 minutes walk from my house on this Friday, so I accepted that and cancelled the first appointment.

One wonders why the automated system couldn't have offered me the local appointment?

[DS999]

That's how it is in the US

Every state is doing their own thing, and my state simply listed all the places in my county. So it is a little more labor intensive as you have more places to try to book appointments, but it allows for having systems in place to address different needs - i.e. some can be booked through a special phone line the state set up for people who aren't comfortable booking online or don't have internet access.

They allocated special supply to pharmacies for them to have vaccinators travel to schools, retirement homes and various "front line worker" places of work so everyone who wants at those locations it can get vaccinated without messing around with appointments or taking time off work.

I'm sure it is possible to do a national portal AND do the stuff above, but there's no way they could have fit in all those requirements unless they had started a year ago (and the Trump admin did zilch to figure out how to actually deploy vaccines) so given the time frame this was the best we could do.

The nice thing about this was I was able to book with my neighborhood grocery store that 3/4 of a mile from my house, I doubt a nationwide system would let you be all that choosy about location.

[Gene Cash]

Re: That's how it is in the US

In case you missed it, let me repeat: in my part of Florida, vaccinations are being handled by GROCERY STORES.

Now the particular chain is rather competent and gets stuff done, but it's still a massive What The Fuck when you stop and think about it.

[codejunky]

Re: That's how it is in the US

@Gene Cash

"In case you missed it, let me repeat: in my part of Florida, vaccinations are being handled by GROCERY STORES."

That is awesome. I hear Florida did very well at getting the vaccines moving.

[Paul Kinsler]

Re: vaccinations are being handled by GROCERY STORES.

Just out of curiousity, is this perhaps because some grocery stores have pharmacy counters and pharmacists on site?

[codejunky]

Joy

Glad to see the UK ordering of vaccine was not handled in the same manner as UK public sector IT. I have to say that is more informative than some of my EU friends are suffering right now. Some have no idea when they will hear about the possibility of being vaccinated as some countries are still working on just the most vulnerable.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Joy

"some countries are still working on just the most vulnerable."

And as we see in the news, some countries are seeing huge rises in infections, hospital admissions, ICU admissions and deaths and are increasing restrictions/lockdowns. Worse, Chile which has a very good vaccination record. one of the best in the world, is seeing large increases in cases. It's a bit concerning. However, they seem to be primarily using the Sinovac vaccine and a possible slip by a Chinese official the other day, later back-tracked on, might indicate it's less effective than they say.

[Strahd Ivarius]

What, no Russian hackers involved?

In France, when a minister forgets to require additional capacity for a web service and it predictably falls under the charge, it is attributed to "foreign hackers"...

[Snowy]

Was it contracted out

Everything else is...

When you go to the Doctors it is most likely some practice that is contacted to NHS and while we called them NHS hospitals they are owned and run by some trust.

[PJ H]

Re: Was it contracted out

"When you go to the Doctors it is most likely some practice that is contacted to NHS ..."

It's more than likely; it's a 100% certainty. All GP practices are private businesses - have been for years.

Not that you're encouraged to hold that belief by the likes of 'Keep Our NHS Public" and the Graun.

To them, a private business changing hands is 'privatising the NHS.'

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Was it contracted out

GP surgeries have been private businesses since the start of the NHS .... Doctors were in general not particularly in favour of the NHS when it was being set up but the 1945 Labour Government sidestepped any complaints by a procedure that Bevin described as "stuffing their mouths with gold" ... a policy that seems to have been maintained as one of the founding principles of the NHS ever since

[Terry 6]

Re: Was it contracted out

There is a significant difference. GP practices were until fairly recently simple contractors. Each GP practice had an NHS contract, in its own right. This is very different from a USA health company owning and selling a chain of GP services to the government.

[Terry 6]

Re: Was it contracted out

The trusts, unlike school academy trusts, are normally NHS trusts. They were bunched together into these as a way of creating the "Internal Market". In effect creating an extra layer of administration and accounting. Trusts can and do run services in each other's areas.

[John Brown (no body)]

Re: Was it contracted out

"while we called them NHS hospitals they are owned and run by some trust."

Worse, there may be departments within the hospital that are part of a different trust, come in as "outsourcers" or specialist in certain areas, to run some services. It's a far more tangled web than when there were regional Health Authorities which generally had control and oversight of everything branded "NHS" in their patch.

[tonyyaman]

not tested long nuff people die affter the jab but the true numbers of deaths not seen and the related covid bad affects not seen all hidden people are scared so much about the covid they get the jab whether it is good or not just like lemmings jumping over the cliff hahaha