back to article Oracle vs Google: No, the Supreme Court did not say APIs aren't copyright – and that's a good thing

You won't be paying an Oracle tax on your next Android phone. After 10 years of Big Red claiming dibs on Android internals and Google telling them to GTFO, the legals have finally been settled by the US Supreme Court. Google has won. The case was in many ways a classic troll. Way back when, Google thought Java SE would be a …

  1. Dave314159ggggdffsdds Silver badge

    APIs might be subject to copyright

    Really, it's hard to discount the possibility that copyright applies to APIs. The bigger question is, assuming they are subject to copyrights, what are those rights worth?

    Ultimately, Oracle fought a case to the Supreme Court over rights that can't be worth more than a few tens of thousands of dollars at most. Google offered to pay a reasonable sum, they rejected it and insisted on 'one hundred beeellion dollars'. The judges ruled, quite rightly, that enabling monopolistic market abuse isn't the point of copyrights.

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: APIs might be subject to copyright

      This is what 'the new SCO' is relying upon AFAIK.

      They will want billions from everyone who uses Linux.

      1. martyn.hare

        GPL symbols anyone?

        Saying nothing is better than saying they can’t be copyrighted, else there is a whole new rabbit hole.

      2. red floyd

        Re: APIs might be subject to copyright

        Of course, to collect a copyright tax on an API, you must first OWN said API, which Xinuos (or whatever the SCOundrels are calling themselves these days) does not.

    2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: APIs might be subject to copyright

      it's hard to discount the possibility that copyright applies to APIs

      I really don't think it is.

      Rupert mentioned the "process, mechanism, or function" test (USC 17 §102), which APIs do not pass. The First Circuit's 1995 decision in Lotus v. Borland held that software UI "look and feel" failed this test. If things like menu items and button labels aren't protected by copyright, why would APIs be? (CAFC's two decisions, in 2014 and 2018, in favor of Oracle shows that not only are the CAFC justices incapable of understanding software, they're also incapable of observing stare decicis. Maybe the worst circuit in the country, and that's saying something.)

      US courts have consistently held that titles, chapter titles, and other short phrases are not protected by copyright. APIs are more similar to chapter titles than to anything else in other "literary works" (which are what software falls under in USC 17.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The court also said that as the world of technology was changing very quickly, it wasn't a good idea to make rules before they're really needed.

    Someone might want to mention that to the US Patent Office.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      USPTO is so dysfunctional precisely because it doesn't have any rules, it accepts applications in spite of prior art and then let the courts fight it out. It might as well not exist.

      1. alain williams Silver badge

        Patent fees

        The USPTO wants lots of applications and for them to continue as long as possible as this is what earns them a lot of fees. It does not cost them if the rest of us have huge legal fees because they did not do their job properly.

        Not quite as bad as these Guardians ad litems supposedly acting in kids' best interests but in reality feathering their own nests.

        Both cases of power without proper accountability.

        1. Brad16800

          Re: Patent fees

          I propose a fix, make the USPTO pay legal fees on cases where they screwed up. Might make them think twice.

    2. Claptrap314 Silver badge

      It's a bit ironic that "I invented the Internet" Al Gore was the one to change the mandate of the USPO from "Issue valid patents" to "Help our customers get patents".

      SOME of us knew where this was headed immediately...

  3. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    The future is FOSS

    End of argument.

    1. RyokuMas
      FAIL

      Re: The future is FOSS

      .... and how tightly is Android coupled to the (proprietary) Google Play services again?

      1. Alumoi Silver badge

        Re: The future is FOSS

        Not as tight as Google would like. Can I point you to AOSP? Or even closer to home: https://www.theregister.com/2020/11/12/android_without_google_e_smartphone/

      2. katrinab Silver badge
        Paris Hilton

        Re: The future is FOSS

        Presumably you could implement your own version of the Google Play Services api, using for example OpenStreetMaps instead of Google Maps?

    2. J27

      Re: The future is FOSS

      FOSS is funded almost exclusively by companies that make commercial software. It's coupled to the commercial software industry so it can't replace it.

      1. Graham Cobb Silver badge

        Re: The future is FOSS

        Some FOSS is funded or strongly supported by software companies. Some by other entities (big users, not software companies - including governments and universities). Some by virtually no one: every few months there is a report of a critical piece of FOSS that everyone is dependent on but has one unpaid lone developer supporting it as a hobby.

        In any case, there are many, many examples of FOSS replacing commercial software. For example, when I started developing embedded systems there were many proprietary embedded kernels (often developed by the device maker themselves): now there are a tiny number of alternatives to Linux which has taken over almost all the embedded systems business.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The future is FOSS

          ...every few months there is a report of a critical piece of FOSS that everyone is dependent on but has one unpaid lone developer supporting it as a hobby.

          Which then gets funded by a commercial software house to keep it going, or is forked by a commercial software house and then released separately.

  4. A.P. Veening Silver badge

    The real outcome here is that some lawyers were kept occupied and were even paid for that, <deity> knows what kind of harm they otherwise would have done.

    1. a pressbutton

      I think MS Clippy outlines what the harm might have been,

      or perhaps the Michigan law that defines fornication (sex outside of a legally sanctioned marriage) as a felony

      1. TimMaher Silver badge
        Coat

        MS Clippy

        “I see that you are trying to self fornicate.”

        “May I help you with that?”

      2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        All the states have laws on the books which were found to be unconstitutional and thus unenforceable. Legislatures are reluctant to make the effort to clean this stuff up, partly because they all have personal projects to fight over, and partly because it's politically unpopular. People who don't like those laws know they're unenforceable anyway, so aren't very bothered one way or another; people who do like them (and there's no shortage of those idiots) get bent out of shape when someone tries to get them removed.

        Just a few years ago the legislatures of both Tennessee and Idaho passed laws endorsing the Bible1. This happens every few years somewhere or other. Typically the governor of the state will veto it, because everyone with an ounce of sense knows it's just asking for an expensive lawsuit the state will lose. In Idaho's case, it violated both the Federal and state constitutions, making it a particularly boneheaded move.

        When I lived in Nebraska, there was a ballot proposal to amend the state constitution to remove a provision, added in the 1940s, forbidding the teaching of German in public schools. Of course that had been struck down pretty much immediately after it was passed, so it had no effect anyway; it was just embarrassing crap stuck on the constitution. The ballot issue failed – a majority of voters decided to keep an unenforceable constitutional provision forbidding the teaching of German.

        Of course this is why we have constitutions and supreme courts, and why "direct democracy" is a terrible idea. (The movement in the US, from the 1970s on, promoting ballot initiatives and other direct-democracy governance, was largely funded by right-wing groups interested in defanging the regulatory state by sabotaging the legislative process. It's been pretty successful.)

        1Some Bible, anyway. Often the nitwits who write these bills don't specify.

  5. Graham Cobb Silver badge

    Good article

    Good summary and useful points.

    And nice to see the IP-super-maximalist views from the past have given way to more nuanced thinking here at El Reg.

    Although it is really hard to celebrate any win for either Google or Oracle! Shame really that the Supremes couldn't say both lost and make them both pay fines to some genuinely free and open source software projects. How about Replicant and MariaDB?

    1. nintendoeats

      Re: Good article

      Are you suggesting that The Supremes should have left them with nothing but a band of gold?

      1. Mike 137 Silver badge

        Re: Good article

        "Are you suggesting that The Supremes should have left them with nothing but a band of gold?"

        Maybe an album or two as well if they were feeling generous.

      2. nintendoeats

        Re: Good article

        I feel it is important, now that I have had my coffee and bothered to double-check, to come back and correct myself. That song was sung by Freda Payne, and therefore the premise of my joke was incorrect. We regret the error. Please accept the following, revised joke:

        Are you suggesting that The Supremes should have kept them hanging on?

  6. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    That's a pity

    I was hoping that Oracle would win and then IBM come round and ask about all these copyright Sql statements Oracle might be using

  7. Shadow Systems

    Oracle needs to be slapped.

    Google got explicit permission & kudos from Sun to do exactly what Google was doing with Java, so anything after that point is utterly moot. For Oracle to come in, buy Sun, & then try to sue for what was permissable at the time is Absolutely Not Allowed under American law, so why were they allowed to continue this case in the first place?

    Even if you ignore that Oracle is guilty of the very thing they screamed that Google was doing, and that's a mountain to ignore sitting in your living room currently squishing the cat, one can't help but wonder why the first set of lawyers & judge didn't point out those facts before dismissing the case with prejudice.

    Oracle needs to be slapped hard enough to make their bottom line bleed like a badly butchered pig, that way they (and anyone else stupid enough to try similar fuckwittery) will stop & *think* before doing it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Oracle needs to be slapped.

      > Oracle needs to be slapped hard enough to make their bottom line bleed like a badly butchered pig [ ... ]

      Yes, but unfortunately that's unlikely to happen.Google might try to recover their attorney's fees, which at this point probably count in the tens of millions. But that's pocket change to Oracle.

      And Oracle being Oracle, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried suing again for the same copyright claim, only with a slightly different approach.

      Oracle has the most innovative legal department in all of Silicon Valley.

      1. Mage Silver badge

        Re: Oracle has the most innovative legal department

        Apple and IBM aren't slouches.

        Most of their patent and registered designs are really invalid.

  8. Mage Silver badge
    Devil

    Book Titles

    Book Titles are not copyrightable. Not to be confused with Registered Trademarks, not all of which can be protected.

    It depends exactly what you mean by an API, if it should be copyrightable.

    Really the implementation is the definitely automatically copyright part. But increase of Copyright to Life + 75 is a landgrab by corporations and of no benefit to creators. Corporate Copyright shouldn't be renewable and should be 20 to 25 years.

    1. Mike 137 Silver badge

      Re: Book Titles

      "Book Titles are not copyrightable."

      Nor are their story lines (at least not in Europe/UK). Only the presentation is copyrightable. So I'd be in breach of copyright if I wrote a Sherlock Holmes story without getting permission from the copyright holder, but I could legitimately write a detective story about a smart misogynist investigator with a medic as a sidekick, provided I called them Smith and Robbins, quite probably even if they lived in Baker Street (but not at 221b).

      1. Mage Silver badge

        Re: Sherlock Holmes story

        It's in the Public Domain. A certain author did have to change a character to Herlock Sholmes or something similar, but Conan Doyle was alive then.

        Of course there are things where wealthy companies that were once the genuine estate of a dead author attempt to bully people.

        1. katrinab Silver badge
          Meh

          Re: Sherlock Holmes story

          "Sherlock Holmes" would be a trade mark, not a copyright, I think?

          1. Precordial thump Silver badge

            Re: Sherlock Holmes story

            Only if you make and sell "Sherlock Holmes" brand magnifying glasses, deerstalkers and Meerschaum pipes.

            And as long as you keep doing so, the trademark doesn't expire.

    2. WhereAmI?

      Re: Book Titles

      That one, I understand, is down to the miraculous money-making properties of a mouse who once captained a steamboat. His parent insists on protecting the poor wee fella for as long as they possibly can - first they started with 25 years, then they pushed it to 50 years and now they still want to change his nappies (diapers) at 75 years old. I understand they intend to do this for a few years yet.

      Lucky mouse.

      1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Book Titles

        I agree with the Disney copyright extension, but only if it is symmetric.

        Every extra year they get also applies to the the years before the mouse.

        So once all those princess, dwarfs and wooden boys hit the Grim, Anderson etal they lose everything

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Happy they killed the GPL - when it comes to dynamic linking.

    If you can copy APIs freely, basically if I write an import module (header file, etc.) for a GPL library, and don't deploy it but let the customer download it, the GPL - which works only because of copyright - is no longer applicable.

    Good.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @LDS - Re: Happy they killed the GPL - when it comes to dynamic linking.

      I'm happy to see you're happy but nothing has been killed here. As long as you don't modify that library and especially because you're not distributing a modified version imposing additional restrictions on it, no harm's been done.

      It's OK, you may read again the T&C of the GPL license. And some additional reading on how API work would do you great good too.

      And for my own curiosity, if you don't agree with a license why would you even consider using code under that license ? I mean, don't like it then don't eat it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: @LDS - Happy they killed the GPL - when it comes to dynamic linking.

        I think you should read the GPL license... did you ever really read it? The LGPL lets you link a library, not the full GPL. It would still be a derivative work if you include the supplied headers. Feel free to ask Stallman.

        But if you can write your own headers to call the library, as Google did, the GPL can't ask you to release your code under its licenses.

        Didn't you all think about that, ya?

        "if you don't agree with a license why would you even consider using code under that license?"

        Just to piss of GPL worshipers, of course - and showing them the "law of unintended consequences"... they believe copyright is bad - but actually the whole GPL is built on copyright - its "copyleft" is a lie, without a strong copyright protection ensuring you assign your code rights only on allowed "licensees" the GPL can't stand. Enjoy!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @LDS - Re: @LDS - Happy they killed the GPL - when it comes to dynamic linking.

          It would help our discussion if you could provide us with the name of that library Google is distributing. And where did you get this notion of allowed licensee ?

        2. Martin M

          Re: @LDS - Happy they killed the GPL - when it comes to dynamic linking.

          The idea that the GPL depends on copyright isn't a new one and certainly not hidden.

          Copyleft is purely a rhetorical term and isn't even mentioned in the license text (using GPLv2 here, for arguments sake). Copyright is, 15 times. The first time it is mentioned, in the preamble, it says:

          "We protect your rights with two steps: (1) copyright the software, and (2) offer you this license which gives you legal permission to copy, distribute and/or modify the software."

          This is front and centre in what must be the most distributed license text ever, and one of the shortest and most readable. So I'm pretty sure any "GPL worshipper" (whatever that is) realises this is the case.

          However, interpretation of the GPL is a fairly nuanced topic. Try searching on "rosenlaw oslbook" for a flavour, and in particular a detailed discussion of linking in both the GPL and LGPL. Rosen thinks there's no difference in practice, because the LGPL is so badly drafted and refers back to the GPL anyway. Things may have moved along since then - the book was written in 2004. There may well have been case law since, and it doesn't address GPLv3.

  10. This post has been deleted by its author

  11. fishman

    Oracle. How to make Google to be the good guy.

  12. bazza Silver badge

    What About Rust?

    Or other languages where there's no separate API declaration (no header file)? A piece of Rust source code defines its API and the implementation of that API all in one source code file; they're inseparable.

    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      Re: What About Rust?

      Is that mandatory, or simply the common practice? I'd have said that a language that *cannot* represent an interface without also providing the implementation is a language that is brain-dead because it can't consume any useful libraries that are written outside the language.

    2. claimed Bronze badge

      Re: What About Rust?

      Nonsense. Traits can be likened to interfaces and you're free to 'impl' traits for your own Types in another file/module/crate.

    3. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: What About Rust?

      Even to the limited extent that this is true, so what? Breyer's decision holds that API use is fair use. It doesn't matter whether the API is contained in the same file as the implementation – either way they're the same "work" for purposes of copyright law.

      USC 17 is not a particularly complicated piece of legislation, even if its ramifications are. Just read the first section and its definitions. Proximity has no effect on copyright or fair use.

  13. Version 1.0 Silver badge
    Happy

    Java 1

    When Java first appeared it was promoted as a useful language that could work anywhere ... just like a cup of coffee, something that everyone could use. That's the way we did things back in the 90's, everyone put an effort into making things work!

    These days we're busy suing people for doing that sort of thing.

    1. PRR Silver badge

      Re: Java 1

      "Java first appeared it was promoted as a useful language that could work anywhere ..."

      It was still promoting itself the last time I installed it. See images:

      https://kubadownload.com/app/java-jre-8

      https://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2217251/java.png

    2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: Java 1

      Oh, yes, in the 1990s everyone was friendly and helpful and there were puppies everywhere and we all had free unicorns and there was no Lotus v. Borland.

      I know people love their prelapsarian fantasies, but, jeez, 1990 was only 31 years ago. Is your historical horizon really that near?

      1. zuckzuckgo Silver badge

        Re: Java 1

        > ...and we all had free unicorns...

        And now unicorns are worth at least a billion dollars.

  14. Dazed and Confused

    Why make a decision on APIs before there is a case

    Think of all the lawyers who'd never get to ride the gravy train if they made a decision before there was a case.

  15. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

    This is practicaly the same as somone trying to seize control of an industry standard (eg USB) and sue everyone who uses it

    1. Dazed and Confused
      Happy

      Re: trying to seize control of an industry standard

      Just like the Rambus case that used to keep us commentards amused here in the early noughties. Sneak you patented tech into an industry standard and then sue everyone.

      https://www.theregister.com/2001/04/09/rambus_loses_fraud_claim_appeal/

      I believe it sold a lot of pop corn :-)

  16. pomegranate

    Declaring declaring code code

    Both the majority and the Thomas-Alito dissent make use of the neologism “declaring code.” I “Bing-ed” that phrase, and it seems to beg the question. I declare a function called “decimal division”, taking a decimal divisor and dividend, and returning a quotient and remainder. I guess you can call that “code.”

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