Please finish this soon. I'm getting sick of popcorn.
Nominet chooses civil war over compromise by rejecting ex-BBC Trust chairman
Nominet has chosen civil war over compromise, formally rejecting members' calls to install former BBC Trust chairman Sir Michael Lyons as chair of the .uk registry operator. “After much careful consideration, the board has decided not to invite Sir Michael to be acting chair,” said Nominet's acting chairman Rob Binns in a …
COMMENTS
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 12:27 GMT Shadow Systems
Sick of popcorn?
May I interest you in a sausage on a bun? Perhaps a mystery meat pie? I've got sticky buns, pastries, and fruit filled muffins. Perhaps some candy?
Mayhaps you could use a folding camp chair in which to sit to rest your tired legs? Maybe a nice long stick upon which to roast your marshmallows over the shite pyre of this debaucle? I've got ghram crackers & squares of chocolate for sale to make your Smores as yummy as possible!
*Shouts out to be heard above the gathering mob*Munchies! Supplies! CMOT Dibbler's got 'em all!
=-D
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 21:21 GMT veti
Re: It's a good thing that...
Sure, but conversely - expecting the government to step in every time the private sector looks shaky is a slippery slope that every European country has been down at least once. (Britain did it in the 70s, and it took Thatcher to cure it. Do you really want to go through that again?)
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 08:48 GMT Wellyboot
When you're stuck in a hole...
stop digging!
>>>effectively daring members to hold a second extraordinary general meeting (EGM) and vote them out, too<<<
or to put it another way - sticking two fingers up at the implicit mandate from the result.
Another EGM may be proposing a major change to the board election process as well as removing the remaining bunch.
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 17:05 GMT cipnt
Re: When you're stuck in a hole...
Exactly!
This desperate attitude can't be all about remuneration. There's probably something a lot more sinister hiding in the accounting books that they don't want people to see.
Who know how much they've been syphoning out of the coffers through various supplier contracts and those failed acquisitions.
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Wednesday 14th April 2021 03:13 GMT the hatter
Re: When you're stuck in a hole...
Whatever else may be lurking, the board will need to make sure their pension plans are secured, because it's going to be a tough sell for any of them to take up senior roles elsewhere, once they finally get the boot. And if they do, t's going to be a hostile welcome from anyone not involved in the hiring, because why would anyone get that sort of person involved ?
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 12:51 GMT Peter Gathercole
Re: When you're stuck in a hole...
Unfortunately, the voting system is likely to be changed and agreed by the board to make the same voting pattern result in a win for the board.
It's a distressing prospect, but the people who want to resist change now hold all of the strings, and have been pre-warned.
The thing is that there are actually registries who hold votes who actually want the current situation to persist, probably because it gives them an undue say in the way that domain registrations work.
If there was to be government intervention, it should be to make sure that there is an ombudsman with sufficient power to penalize the board if they deviate from their core company resolutions.
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Wednesday 14th April 2021 08:46 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: When you're stuck in a hole...
"the voting system is likely to be changed and agreed by the board "
A change to the voting system has to be approved by the membership, not the board. There has to be a 75% majority of those who voted too.
https://media.nominet.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Nominet-UK-Articles-of-Association-2020-.pdf
19A Except as required by law, before making any change to the level of Membership subscriptions, the Board must consult with the Members by conducting a ballot. The ballot, which may be carried out by electronic communication or in writing must seek votes for and against each proposed change; and the Board shall only implement the proposed change if at least seventy-five percent of the votes cast in the ballot are in favour of the proposed change.
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Wednesday 14th April 2021 10:25 GMT Peter Gathercole
Re: When you're stuck in a hole...
Hmm. Not really up on company legalese, but your interpretation sounds like a different definition of "subscription" than I am used to. I would expect that a "subscription" to be something like "An arrangement to receive something, typically a publication, regularly by paying in advance." (taken from the OED). So this looks like a provision to set membership fees. This appears to be backed up by article 3.5 on dismissal of a member, "in any case, if any subscription due to the Company remains outstanding for more than one month; "
Actually reading the Articles of Association that you pointed to (thanks for that), seems to give the chairman (sic) of the board quite a lot of power with regard to informing the members of a meeting and the resolutions at the meeting. It appears to absolve the board for members not receiving the invitation to a general meeting. In addition, according to article 5.1, the choice of allowing the remote attendance of a general meeting appears to be at the whim of the board, and if an electronic meeting appears to be going "wrong", the chairman of the meeting has the option to immediately terminate the it.
Quorum for a general meeting seems to be as low as six members!
In addition, the chairman seems to be able to determine how a "show of hands" vote will be carried out and recorded unless a poll is called for.
I can see nothing at all in the Articles of Association regarding the allocation of voting rights. This is probably covered in previous resolutions rather than the articles, but I don't know about those. It would appear from the articles that it is one member, one vote, with companies on the board appearing as a single member. This does not seem like a particularly workable setup, so I'm sure there must be more complexity in the system, which appears to be the case from previous stories.
I would not count the board out yet.
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 20:00 GMT Eclectic Man
Re: When you're stuck in a hole...
They are not stuck in a hole. Their motto may be more like:
'When your snout is in a trough, keep guzzling.'
I assume, of course the the remaining directors are receiving adequate remuneration for their efforts. If there is 'writing on the wall' fro them, then their bets course of action may be to wring as much money out of Nominet as they can while the going is good. But then I don't know any of them, and they may be perfectly reasonable and nice people as far as I know.
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 08:50 GMT Anonymous Coward
The arrogance of the entitled
The contempt and arrogance shown by the Nominet board is truly stunning.
Having fixed themselves a cushy job where they get paid unjustifiably large salaries for doing remarkably little, the board is doing everything they can to make sure that they keep them. Far from acting as if they are a member driven and owned organisation, the board seem to view Nominet's members as little more than cash cows to inflate their already over-inflated bank accounts.
The entire board should be sacked and the sooner the better.
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 14:11 GMT 42656e4d203239
Re: The arrogance of the entitled
>>elected board members who can be very easily unelected, either at the AGM or EGMv2.
Err not if they rig the voting in their favour.... or in favour of their chums who want them in place to preserve whatever gravy train they have running, which, of course, has the same net effect.
As the weighting of the voting is not made public (see El Reg. passim), the smaller members cannot see how or even if their votes count.
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 09:00 GMT Lucien Taylor
Watch the big quiet members in the background
It is an outrage having to ask the people you have fired (by EGM) to stand aside. There is no other way of looking at it, they are being propped up by those with self interest. The bigger players (outside the UK) seem to be at odds with the wider membership, the smaller players inside the UK. Very unpleasant business.
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 09:20 GMT Chris G
What this needs
Is wider publicity, so that the British public is aware of the greed and diversion of funds into greedy pockets. However, I don't see government intervention as being desirable, particularly as my impression of recent governments is that they support exactly this kind of profiteering.
Apparently, the 1405 law requiring every town to have a pillory has never been repealed, I can think of a use for one.
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 12:57 GMT Peter2
Re: What this needs
Apparently, the 1405 law requiring every town to have a pillory has never been repealed, I can think of a use for one.
Is that true, or did you just read it on the BBC website? It's not on the legislation.gov.uk website, which is the authoritative source of UK laws and it's also not present in Halsbury's Laws of England or any reputable sources (history books etc) as so far as I can see.
The Statute of Labourers act was passed in 1351, and had no requirement for towns to have stocks or a pillory. (the act was passed after the black death depleted the workforce and made it illegal to pay a higher wage than the average before the pandemic, or for the peasants to move to where people were being paid more)
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 22:00 GMT Chris G
Re: What this needs
@Peter2
Here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Labourers_1351
at the bottom of the third paragraph in the section headed CONTENT.
I originally found the reference to the 1405 update to the Statute of Labourers on a site called Atlas Obscura dated 2/7/2016 something to do with a town called Thame and a councillor called Bretherton.
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Wednesday 14th April 2021 15:36 GMT Peter2
Re: What this needs
So, to recap.
1) We have an article posted on Wikipedia, the BBC has referenced Wikipedia and other places then referenced the BBC for a law having been written stating stocks were required to be built at all (which is actually objectively in some doubt)
2) And no evidence whatsoever to support the specific claim that this law is still in force today. Because you know, it's not actually in either the statue books or the governments legislation.gov.uk service, and ergo not in force.
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 17:05 GMT cipnt
Press the power button for 5 seconds
Simon Blackler at the time explained that disputing Nominet's refusal of putting the second motion to the vote would have taken months in court and would have delayed the entire EGM (plus the huge legal costs). The whole thing would have lost momentum and Nominet would have had more time to spread their FUD and give registrars special deals in exchange for their vote.
It was the right thing to go ahead with just one resolution – we made some progress and there was hope the remaining Board would see the writing on the wall and cooperate.
But we are where we are now so it looks like we need to call a second EGM to get rid of all the Board and start fresh.
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 11:49 GMT Adair
It's absolutely outrageous
... that respectable market makers are having their right and freedom to enjoy the well earned rewards of a job well done are being interfered with and obstructed by a bunch of miserablist busybodies with too much time on their hands, and a grudge against anyone who clearly has a better grasp of market forces and how to turn them to advantage than they do.
This kind of behaviour in a modern economy is intolerable! When is the Government going to step in and ensure the rights of freedom loving business people are respected and upheld? It's exactly this kind of reprehensible collectivist negativity that led us to leave the EU. The fact that some seem to think they can carry on with impunity as they always have done needs to be dealt with promptly and severely, as an example to others of what Britain is all about now.
Honestly, it makes you wonder why we bother paying any tax at all!
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 12:28 GMT heyrick
It's about time...
TVS lost to Meridian.
Virgin lost to FirstGroup.
And so on.
It's about time this was opened up for alternatives to offer to pledge to run the registry correctly, and for the best option to be chosen (and Nominet ended).
Icon, because this is getting beyond farce and parody.
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Tuesday 20th April 2021 20:00 GMT SImon Hobson
Re: It's about time...
I'd disagree with that. Virgin used to run our nearest main line - and did a very nice job of it.
We got fresh new trains, and in partnership with the rail people (whatever they're called this week) got some nice upgrades, and the Virgin managed stations were nice places to be for a change.
So far (or at least, as of a little over a year ago when I last went anywhere) nothing seems to have changed with the change to ... err ... what are they called again ? But then I'd not expect anything to change quickly.
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 14:42 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: It's about time...
"It's about time this was opened up for alternatives to offer to pledge to run the registry correctly, and for the best option to be chosen (and Nominet ended)."
That's easier said than done. The simplest solution is the removal of Nominet's board and senior management, replacing them with people who can fix the epic governance fuck-up and carry out the wholesale restructuring that now has to take place. Which are not easy things to do.
Completely replacing Nominet is far, far harder. For starters, define "best option" and "run the registry correctly". How does that get agreed? Who gets to decide what's meant by best AND what should replace Nominet? How is the replacement registry chosen? What criteria apply? Who oversees the contract with the new registry? Who are the contract parties? How do you ensure that the new registry provider - probably based overseas - will be accountable or transparent or responsive?
This inevitably brings you back to where .uk started 25+ years ago. You end up needing some sort of non-profit multistakeholder beast to preside over things even if it doesn't run the registry. That's essentially a Nominet Board V2. With all the same risks and dangers that the current setup was exposed to.
By all means sack the current board and the rest of satan's little helpers. But be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Nominet the .uk registry is just fine. Leave it alone. Nominet the institution is a basket case because of the dysfunctional board. That's what needs fixing.
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 16:33 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: EGM v2
Surely there is likely to be an appreciation from at some of those who voted No to shift across now they can see the way the place is being ran and managed
That's not very likely at all. Those who voted no were by definition happy with the status quo and the performance of the pre-EGM board. Why would they change their minds now? What's left of that discredited board is continuing to run Nominet the way those no voters wanted. From their PoV, they're content with how that board is running Nominet.
IIRC one of those no voters was quoted in an earlier article saying "I don't care what happens in the boardroom as long as the core registry works". An attitude like that isn't going to change because of the board's latest stunt.
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 18:23 GMT cipnt
Re: EGM v2
We simply don't know...
The turnout at the first EGM was the biggest ever, it was an incredible achievement. Not sure if we can reach the same level again, to be honest.
Nominet's FUD was clearly all lies then, but now it would be actually valid – removing the entire Board is a serious disruption to the company. Some members might think it's too radical.
We need to try. It's our right to call for an EGM.
If that fails, at the AGM later this year, we have to elect better NEDs that support the Public Benefit principles and not those who want a Nominet PLC
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Wednesday 14th April 2021 11:13 GMT the hatter
Re: EGM v2
Most of the votes to retain the status quo were from a very small number of very big companies. They weren't voting because they think the board are doing things right, they're voting in their own self interest, which may well be even stronger now they've propped up the incumbents, so can push for things to work even more in their favour. Plus most of those companies are not merely not known for their strong grasp of ethics, but in fact for actively making highly unethical choices.
Perhaps a few small/smaller members who didn't vote may be sufficiently outraged and shocked by what happened after the vote to throw their weight in. I can't imagine too many smaller members voted against the EGM except out of self interest, but perhaps a closer choice between profit and ethics - maybe they will see the campaign's words about the character of the board were not mere hyperbole. All these will require a good amount more effort to reach out to though, along with those who voted for, but only because they were sufficiently reminded to make the effort.
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 13:46 GMT uro
This just demonstrates that Nominet board members and staff think they are above and beyond scrutiny, they seem to think they are beyond reproach, that they are in some way untouchable through their continued support and back rubbing of each other, they have long since circled their wagons.
The only way to fix this is for entire board to be sacked, with staffers suspended until such a time as an open investigation into their actions is completed.
I'd suggest another EGM is held at the earliest opportunity, with the ousting of the entire board and suspension of staff due to the internal corrupt practices we are watching unfold infront of us being high on the agenda.
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 19:34 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: move your domain
porkbun.com appears to offer the best value at the moment.
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 15:35 GMT Anonymous Coward
"We have no plans" ...... hummmmmmmmmm
@Nominet “We are a private company, limited by guarantee, which means profits cannot be distributed to members or anybody else, but are invested back into the business or into public benefit. There are no plans to change that.”
Ah, that magic phrase “There are no plans to change that”. No plans today but once we have got rid of all those irritating, pesky, troublesome members who keep asking so many questions, then we can do what we want.
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Tuesday 13th April 2021 20:26 GMT masterbaiter
Follow the money
How did that appalling company Godaddy end up on the board? (I know from experience that companies I used to do business with and used to think highly of got bought out by that evil business, and they raised prices and decimated service, but through laziness, I admit, I haven't -yet! - done much about it.) To my shame I have about 70 domains with Goddady and Ionos and other miscreants like that. But not for much longer. I'm transferring my domains to more ethical companies (and you know what? they're often cheaper too!) and I think if enough of us did so, those aholes might start to pay attention. Please, fellow el Reg denizens: vote with your wallets. That's the only language these scumbags will understand.
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Wednesday 14th April 2021 02:51 GMT Cynicalmark
Oh dear
Caught with their hands in the proverbial till, the remaining execs are either stupidly arrogant or just plain stupid. There is something darker to this activity & they are getting desperate by snubbing members wishes following an extraordinary vote of no confidence. Methinks there is potential for a fraud story by the end of the autumn. Can’t wait.