back to article Satellite collision anticipated by EU space agency fails to materialize... for now at least

Two days ago, the EU Space Surveillance and Tracking (EU SST) initiative warned of a possible collision on Friday between two orbiting objects, but it now appears they passed each other without incident. The two chunks of space junk are identified as OPS 6182 (1978-042A), a defunct US meteorological satellite, and SL-8 R/B ( …

  1. sbt
    Flame

    the 2007 Fengyun-1C anti-satellite missile test

    Given that was deliberate, the CCP really should be made to clean it up.

    1. veti Silver badge

      Re: the 2007 Fengyun-1C anti-satellite missile test

      How, exactly?

      It's hard enough getting my daughter to tidy her toys from the living room. I dread to imagine the standoff that would follow a demand for the CCP to sweep LEO.

      1. sbt
        Alert

        Re: the 2007 Fengyun-1C anti-satellite missile test

        Get them to de-orbit any large chunks they've been able to identify and keep track of, as well as an equivalent mass in the same orbit of bits they haven't.

        Time for Mega-Maid!

      2. jmch Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: the 2007 Fengyun-1C anti-satellite missile test

        "It's hard enough getting my daughter to tidy her toys from the living room. I dread to imagine the standoff that would follow a demand for the CCP to sweep LEO."

        No watching Netflix until LEO is cleared?

    2. ragnar

      Re: the 2007 Fengyun-1C anti-satellite missile test

      All major powers have done this.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-satellite_weapon#Recent_ASATs

      It's not a uniquely Chinese problem, and the US has vigorously opposed UN resolutions to stop this kind of thing.

      1. sbt
        Go

        Re: It's not a uniquely Chinese problem

        Yes, every country that has deliberately blown things up in space leaving debris should get on and clean it up. It's not like only the Chinese caused debris will hit something eventually.

    3. Timbo

      Re: the 2007 Fengyun-1C anti-satellite missile test

      As long as you also write a stiff letter to the USA concerning their 1985 "test", when they conducted an anti-satellite missile test using an ASM-135 ASAT to destroy the P78-1 satellite.

      And another stiff letter concerning the 2008 "Operation Burnt Frost", when the USA launched another missile to bring down the non-functioning low-altitude NRO USA-193 satellite...which had a "classified" use designation (and assumed to be a High Def Radar system), though it was predcited that little debris would remain in space from this...but no one is sure.

  2. Elledan

    Looking forward to full reusability & refueling

    On the bright side, things appear to be moving in the right direction now at least. With SpaceX rather leading the way towards fully reusable rockets, and others working on extending the life of satellites, or at least moving them into safe graveyard orbits.

    If SpaceX's Starship concept works out, then that'd be the first time since the Space Shuttle that a satellite can be launched or even recovered/repaired without adding to the pile of old hardware up there in terms of discarded second stages and what not.

    As for cleaning up current trash in orbit, the main problem one has there is that of velocity and thus kinetic energy. When even a fleck of paint is zipping along at a few km/s, then simply putting something in its path won't do more than cause a very spectacular explosion worst case or best case a puncture hole and a paint fleck that's now hurtling either into space or towards the atmosphere.

    1. BristolBachelor Gold badge

      Re: Looking forward to full reusability & refueling

      Pretty much all 2nd/3rd/4th stages de-orbit after delivering their payload to orbit now. There's still some work to get all countries to agree to limits on time in orbit after missions end though.

    2. The First Dave

      Re: Looking forward to full reusability & refueling

      The problem, as ever, is RELATIVE velocity - if your orbiting net/giant-hoover/magnet is orbiting in the same direction as the debris then the speed is naturally almost negligible.

    3. Gordon 10
      Meh

      Re: Looking forward to full reusability & refueling

      Hmm.

      Given that SpaceX is also throwing up entire satellite constellations in volumes few others can match, I think this is a score-draw at best.

      I'm no rocket scientist but if a couple of Starlink birds collide I reckon we are right royally f*cked.

      1. Alan Brown Silver badge

        Re: Looking forward to full reusability & refueling

        SpaceX's constellations are at _very low_ altitudes which have a maximum endurance of 5 years without constant reboosting from their onboard ion thrusters (ditto any debris from collisions - note that they have onboard collision avoidance software so this is fairly unlikely anyway)

        They launch them into initial orbits which come down even faster than that (18 months or less)

        The irritating thing about bringing down a lot of the smaller shit is that "we" already have the technology to do so (laser brooms) but actually deploying it risks causing a war because being able to bring your stuff down also means you can use it to bring down the other guy's stuff and nobody will agree to a closely supervised cooperative effort

        (it's not even particularly difficult to bring things down - just sufficiently destabilise the orbit to make it mildly elliptical and the atmosphere will do the rest for you)

  3. Neil Barnes Silver badge

    space lasers

    I read the whole report, but there was one noticeable omission: how will the sharks breathe?

    1. slimshady76
      Joke

      Re: space lasers

      Well, we clearly need to build a Dyson fish tank!!!

      1. Muscleguy

        Re: space lasers

        Indeed, the colour signature of Dyson worlds is not green, it's blue with laser flashes.

    2. Marcelo Rodrigues
      Trollface

      Re: space lasers

      "I read the whole report, but there was one noticeable omission: how will the sharks breathe?"

      Didn't You get the memo from BioWorks? They won't: we are creating space sharks! With a laser on top! :D

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "revised upward to more than 20 per cent."

    Pshaw. What the hell do those "experts" know? I swear that 4 out of 5 times when they claim there's a 20% chance... nothing happens!

    (Should have put a joke alert icon, but some people really do think like that)

    1. Snowy Silver badge
      Joke

      Yes only 1 in a millions happens all the time!

      1. Twanky

        1 in a millions happens all the time!

        Nonsense! One in a million chances come up 9 times out of 10.

  5. Conundrum1885

    That one time

    They get it wrong and Envisat collides with something.

    Cue "Gravity"

    Actually it could be worse than that, some of these things have nuclear reactors on board though fortunately most are in a high orbit out of harm's way.

    US Space Command have a very high pressure job as it is, what with the "other" folks moaning about how hard it is to navigate all the various pieces of

    space junk to get to/from the ISS and other facilities.

    1. Julz

      Re: That one time

      There are more that one old USSR navel radar recon satellites that failed to be put into safe parking orbits. They have serious (radar takes some oomph to power) nuclear reactors onboard which you really don't want to fall on you.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: That one time

        The Soviets clearly took navel gazing seriously...

      2. Conundrum1885

        Re: That one time

        How does one protect against this sort of thing?

  6. JassMan
    Trollface

    When clickbait goes wrong

    Satellite collision anticipated by EU space agency fails to materialize

    Surely in a collision things get dematerialised (or at least a close approximation) at orbital velocities, and since there was no collision....

    Satellite collision anticipated by EU space agency fails to dematerialize <-- FTFY

  7. AlanSh

    Dyson will do it

    Just give the problem to Dyson. They will sort it.

    Alan

    1. Spherical Cow Silver badge

      Re: Dyson will do it

      Vacuums IN SPAAAACE oh wait

      1. My-Handle

        Re: Dyson will do it

        They're called vacuum cleaners for a reason. What better to clean a vacuum with? :D

  8. mark4155
    Megaphone

    The Polluter Should Pay!!!

    Here on earth, and in Manchester UK, we have "litter wardens" on the High Street that will issue fixed penalty notices to those who drop and then refuse at the 1st time of asking to pick up their litter (cans, bottles, sweet wrappers and fag ends etc.).

    In space, the rule should also apply and retrospectively too. Whilst it may be difficult to send up some space "Wombles" we now have a clear picture of recent polluters.

    We also have the sensitive but increasingly important subject of the Moon and Mars more recently being treated as a dumping ground for unused parachutes (recent Mars landing) and other equipment.

    I'm not one of the "Rafia Mafia" types, I just think that we have enough shit on our own doorsteps to deal with without polluting space.

    A big electromagnetic space machine is called for and the cost equally borne by the polluters.

    Toodle Pip!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The Polluter Should Pay!!!

      "The Polluter Should Pay!!!"

      Polluters and their nuclear arsenal say "sod off"...

      Seriously, that kind of stuff is always easy to claim, but very tricky to enforce. Already making a puny little company pay for its pollution is nigh impossible, so imagine trying it against a superpower nation...

    2. Muscleguy

      Re: The Polluter Should Pay!!!

      So Mars colonists, do they put all the human made stuff on the surface in a museum or do they reuse and mine it for resources?

      I'm sure you could get lots of knickers out of one of those parachutes.

      1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

        Re: The Polluter Should Pay!!!

        Around the end of WWII, a lot of boy scout uniforms were made out of parachutes from shot down pilots in the Netherlands.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The Polluter Should Pay!!!

          And meat loaf from the pilots themselves.

          What? Those were hard times, you couldn't let good stuff go to waste!

          </joke>

  9. RuffianXion
    Headmaster

    New Reg unit?

    "EU SST says there are more than a million space debris objects larger than a centimiter in width"

    When did misspelled Bishop's headdresses get added to the Reg's list of official units of measurement? Also, what is "cluttreing"?

  10. Magani
    Thumb Up

    "Missed it by that much!"

    Maxwell Smart

  11. Sanguma

    Manifest Density and the US Monroe Doctrine of Earth Orbit

    As we might expect, the US will push forward with its "Space Debris Removal by Laser Satellites" whatever anybody else says, and the rest of the spacefaring world will see anti-satellite testing. Given that the US turned down a number of anti-satellite ban treaties over the past few decades, on grounds that were rather thin - if they were serious at any point in the proceedings, they'd've bend bent over backwards to get everybody on board, the way they did with the Law of the Sea Convention, and left no stone unturned.

    Proof of the pudding's in the eating, not the advertisement, dear chaps and chapettes in the US govt, so please pull finger - if you know how - and get things worked out ASAP.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Space age..

    Looking like it will be short lived. I wonder if we'll get a century out of it.

    1. werdsmith Silver badge

      Re: Space age..

      Who comes up with a truly practical idea for clean up in orbit at relatively low cost, will save LEO space projects and become very rich.

      A lot of good minds have had a go already. Nothing really special has happened.

  13. beep54
    Joke

    I wonder

    Will the space lasers be Jewish?

  14. Version 1.0 Silver badge

    No Lego

    El Reg, could we have a picture of this problem and its resolution please?

  15. Potemkine! Silver badge

    Till next time

    Because there are more and more trash on space, it's only a matter of time before it happens.

  16. Claptrap314 Silver badge

    The LEO commons

    is a lot bigger than the doom-sayers say. Having said that, when it DOES fill, the mess will also be bigger.

    At the same time, various cleaning technologies are going to get easier almost every year, and the leadership of the big boys are rational enough that someone who declares, "We're going to zap object X in 48 hours unless someone objects" won't be known as the bad guys. The biggest thing is likely to be the national loss of face for some one else cleaning up your trash, but that's avoidable.

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