No egrets: Ardent twitchers fined for breaking lockdown after bloke spots northern mockingbird in his garden

Everyone has a quirky personal interest or two, but few have pursuits that would move us to drive to Exmouth amid a national lockdown that dishes out fines for non-essential travel. Who among us is so passionate about their hobby that they'd gladly risk prosecution as the mercury sank below zero earlier this month? It's the …

[Vincent Ballard]

A quick snipe

No egrets? We quail before the stilted pun, although no doubt the bustard who came it with it was crowing about it. One swift question for the benefit of all the culture vultures larking about here: was the pun on "hobby" intended, or just a bonus?

[Martin Summers]

Re: Puns

Got your coat? Definitely time to duck out me ol' sparrow.

[Vincent Ballard]

Re: Puns

As the Americans say, tern about is no fowl.

[David 132]

Re: Puns

Personally, if I see seabirds in my garden, I obsessively throw rocks at them, on the basis of leaving no tern unstoned.

(Yeah, I know there are 2 other “tern” puns on this page already, but I can’t resist.)

[Excellentsword]

Re: A quick snipe

Er... I'm just gonna say always intend your puns.

[Martin Summers]

If this is bird watchers, who are normally quite benign. Imagine what others are doing in the name of self interest. Whilst these people carry on the way they do, we will continue to have our lives restricted.

[Aaiieeee]

Is the point of a personal interest that you persue it?

If birds are your passion then what is £200? (public safety aside).

Seems to me that if you are put off by higher prices then perhaps you are not as into it as you thought (nothing wrong with that of course).

Fines are a way of quantifying risk and can be set against by whatever you stand gain from the fine-incurring activity!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue[sic] it?

It's a fair point: Is someone who spends £100's worth of petrol to transport £4k's worth of optics and £10k's worth of camera down to Devon likely to be bothered by a £200 fine? The cynic in me would also point out that twitchers tend to be solitary and uncommunicative at the best of times, and hence would be unlikely to get close enough to others to either spread or catch Covid.

[Vincent Ballard]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue[sic] it?

I think that the cynic is you is wrong. Twitchers may well tend to introversion, and may try to keep talking to a minimum to avoid scaring more paranoid birds, but we tend to cluster around the places with good lines of sight to the interesting ones, and most of us will try to explain where to look if someone can't spot it.

[Steve K]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue[sic] it?

So Caws for concern then, or are they in for a tweet?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue[sic] it?

Upvoted.

But I'd take issue with the comment about them tending towards introversion.

[martinusher]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue[sic] it?

It seems a harmless hobby and a bit more interesting than collecting railway locomotive numbers (a pastime much diminished with the demise of steam)(and British Railways).

What I'm a bit puzzled about is who gave PC Plod the right to levy fines? No wonder people in the UK are getting a bit antsy. We're supposed to be similarly locked down but if I went to some place to look at a bird the attitude of the local law enforcement would be 'whatever' -- unless there was a crowd of several hundred of us.

(BTW -- I used to work with an avid bird watcher. These guys would literally travel half way around the world to choice birding locations. In 'non-bird' mode they're actually surprisingly normal people.)

[jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue[sic] it?

"What I'm a bit puzzled about is who gave PC Plod the right to levy fines? "

In the UK, the law of the land gives police these powers. Specifically, the Coronavirus Act 2020. This was passed in parliament and written in UK law, just like any other law in the country, except maybe a touch quicker, understandable given the circumstances.

[thondwe]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue[sic] it?

Making an assumption about twitchers - if there's a rare bird in the offing, then the will flock together - local sighing of some rare hawk, basically blocked the road and there wasn't a spare gap along the hedge. Plus they have their own specialist holiday groups!

[hoola]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue[sic] it?

It is exactly the same with some of the mountain bike fraternity. The cost of the fine is derisory for the people tat are choosing to travel hundreds of miles to ride. As others have said, it is all about risk and for the most part the chances of being caught are low. If you are caught, "sorry officer, it won't happen again" and pay the fine.

Then look at the numpties in the lake district that had to be rescued, resulting in one of the rescue team also being injured. This in particular makes me incandescent with rage. Volunteers have had to go out to recover complete and utter twats who should never have been out there in the first place.

[Eclectic Man]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue it?

Aaiieeee: "Fines are a way of quantifying risk and can be set against by whatever you stand gain from the fine-incurring activity!"

Are you of the opinion that the law is there to be considered only as an inhibition, and that if you are prepared to pay the likely price of transgression then you should go ahead and break it? That does seem to be the attitude of many senior managers in some companies, although they personally rarely face the consequences of their actions.

The point of the lockdown is to save lives (because the 'Test and Trace' system is inadequate to identify likely carriers in time to reduce transmission by self-isolation), so any travel outside your local area potentially puts other people's lives at risk. Yes, I know you put "public safety aside" in your post, but public safety is the point. Maybe increasing the punishment to include a ban on driving for 6 months would get people to take more care.

[Aaiieeee]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue it?

The fact there is a fine at all sets a quantifiable level of risk to enable us to determine what action we should take in light of it. For some it is an acceptable cost of pursuing their interest.

If you want to stop people taking a certain action they have to choose not to do it when they analyse the cost.. What about 50% of all fixed assets and 30% of income (pre tax) for the next 3 years as a fine? Otherwise you have to physically restrain them. We are free to take whatever decision we see fit, and the consequences that follow.

You are appealing to the common good which may not be the default stance of other people (some twitchers, some senior managers).

For some people the risk of spreading covid is not high on their list of concerns.

Also, I never said I approved.

[Eclectic Man]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue it?

@ Aaiieeee: "I never said I approved."

Well, do you approve or not?

"We are free to take whatever decision we see fit, and the consequences that follow."

But when the consequences (potentially fatal disease) fall on other people, what then?

[Aaiieeee]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue it?

Should people go and view this bird? No

Would I encourage them to do so? No

Do I believe it is appropriate or suitable to view the bird? No

Do I respect that they can do whatever they want? Yes

If a member of my family died due to an infected twitcher climbing into my garden, would I approve? No

Can I stop them? No

Can I trust people to do the right thing? No

Can I trust myself to do the right thing? Depends on whose perspective of 'right'

Would I break lockdown rules for a dying friend/relative? Yes

Would I accept the consequence? Yes

Do I believe that staying at home as per govt. guidelines is the correct thing to do? Yes

Yes, there are some things I will do because I believe I must, the twicher felt seeing the bird was in this category so how can I comment? I wouldn't break lockdown to see a bird but some clearly did.

What drives any of us?

The freedom to make bad decisions and take the consequence is entirely my own and I grant that freedom to the twichers too. You would have to physically restrain me otherwise.

[genghis_uk]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue it?

Everyone talks about the risk to lives and how we have to do xxx to 'save lives' but very few actually understand their risk factor.

Have I been out since Christmas? Yes, twice and once was to a funeral (non-covid and all above board) but I understand the risk of me catching or transmitting the virus is very small. My area has a rate of 71/100,000 so there are 48 people that have tested positive in a population of 67,000 but the area is a number of spread out villages. The same 71/100,000 as a London borough would potentially have an increased risk of transmission so the number alone is not a great indicator.

Looking at the Government map https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map

Areas next to me (next village in fact) are suppressed and so is a large lump of Exeter - with the current level you could go from quite a few areas to the outskirts of Exeter with an almost 0 risk of transmission. Should you? Well that is a slightly different conversation

[Eclectic Man]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue it?

The problem is that the rates of infection presented by HMG (or anyone else for that matter) are always going to be out of date. Maybe as recently as one day ago they were accurate, but today, you don't know who visited your local area today, who is an asymptomatic super-spreader or who has just booked a test.

The other fact is that although it might be possible to determine the risk of infection with some accuracy, the consequences of infection can include death, severe illness, and, of course, passing it on to anyone you meet. Severe illness is very expensive to treat and, of course, puts the NHS staff treating you under stress, and also at risk (remember that lots of NHS staff have tested positive for Covid-19 despite wearing PPE).

I have little sympathy for people travelling long distances against Covid restrictions for unnecessary activities. Yes, I know that we all need to look after our mental as well as physical health, but you should be able to do that without risking other people's health.

[genghis_uk]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue it?

We are currently on a downward trend so yes, the numbers could be out but they are likely to be lower... I accept that asyptomatic spreaders are about and the numbers have a degree of inaccuracy but the trend is still falling.

However, that was not my point. It was that people are generally really bad at assessing risk - actually you sort of did prove my point:

"the consequences of infection can include death, severe illness, and, of course, passing it on to anyone you meet"

It can include all of the nasties above but we are talking about risk (not consequence) which is all about measuring probabilities. What is the probability of someone passing it on? What is the probability of getting a bad dose or long term illness? These are all non-zero but my point was that the probability of dying or gettiing long covid are not as high in some parts of the country as in other parts. Cities are far more likely to be problem areas - rural areas not so much. This is shown in the gov map data. Travelling from a very low risk area to another very low risk area is not zero risk but eventually you have to say on balance, it is not likely (and £200 is worth it?)

You don't (generally) catch Covid-19 from walking past people in the street you need a level of virus for it to take - again this is working on probabilities of proximity and duration. NHS staff have caught covid due to prolonged exposure at close proximity - more exposure increases the risk and PPE is not 100%. Even at 99.999% a person with enough exposure would eventually contract the virus but the quantity, duration and number of staff would have to be very high.

Another unpopular view - I know... Sorry! (it's the one on the right...) \/

[Eclectic Man]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue it?

genghis_uk> "people are generally really bad at assessing risk"

I agree, the problem is that many of the posters on this thread seem only to be considering their own risk, not the risk they pose to others. So, for example, I am 60. The probability of dying from a Covid-19 infection doubles for every 5 years older you are. So I am 64 times more likely to die of Covid-19 than a 30 year-old.

Despite the number of people infected falling there are still tens of thousands of people with Covid-19 in the general population (i.e., infected, but not hospitalised). And Dido Harding has admitted that most do not completely self-isolate for the requisite 10 days.

Maybe I am overreacting, but when I see someone saying they are prepared to 'take the consequences' of breaching lockdown (meaning they pay a fine of £200) rather than considering the possibility of killing someone through their actions I get a bit annoyed.

Anyway the good news is that I have a vaccination booked for next week. Maybe I'll calm down a bit after that.

As you said, another unpopular view (downvote is the one on the right) V

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue it?

> The point of the lockdown is to save lives

The BBC seem to have completely forgotten this though. Tonight (16-Feb) on the News at Ten they had a feature on Dr Sam Wright who works in the accident & emergency department at Glan Clywd hospital in N Wales. The item shows her walking alone in the Welsh hills with her own voice-over saying "this is where I come to reset [...] to hear something other than machines bleeping at me".

That's lovely, and I'm sure it's richly deserved, however it's also a breach of the Welsh lockdown rules and the Beeb really shouldn't be featuring it. :-(

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue it?

Why are some people so eager to criticise NHS staff currently?

Current gov.uk Covid guidelines for Wales state "There are no limits on the distance you can travel during exercise, though the nearer you stay to your home, the better. Your exercise should start and finish from your home and generally, this must not involve people driving to a location away from home."

Do you know where this poor doctor is living currently? In many areas of North Wales it is difficult not to live "in the Welsh Hills" - it's a mountainous region. 2+2=5 certainly seems to be the correct sig for you.

NHS staff are so demoralised by constant and unjustified criticism currently - as if their job isn't difficult enough.

And the BBC should be featuring stories about the grim reality of Covid for staff and patients and how both groups attempt to survive the cumulative psychological trauma.

Next time try and show some reflection and compassion before jumping in with both feet.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue it?

> Why are some people so eager to criticise NHS staff currently?

I'm not all eager to criticise NHS staff. But I am pointing out that the Beeb - by spotlighting her - seem to think that she can be an exception. I assume your downvotes also mean that you also think she can be an exception.

And that sets an expectation: if NHS are an exception then are political advisors called Dominic Cummings also an exception? Or what about hard-working IT staff on call? Or teachers? Or cross-channel lorry drivers delivering food?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue it?

You didn't answer my main point - you don't know if this doctor lives in the Welsh Hills (which are adjacent to the hospital where she works btw) because if she does she is not breaking any local lockdown rules. Yet you claim that you're not eager to criticise?

But nice matching set of slagging off NHS staff and the BBC in the same posting without any justification or evidence - we get this crap all the time in the UK currently.

[Hazmoid]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue it?

In Australia at the moment, we are just about getting back to normal, with no need to wear masks ( except in Melbourne) and most activities available. Melbourne has just had a 1 week lockdown to stop the spread of an infection from a quarantine hotel, and currently has a number of active cases.

I'm fortunate to live in Western Australia where we currently have 3 active cases and a total of 910 since it started. Of that there are only 9 reported deaths.

We have come around to the point where it is sensible to wear a mask when out and about, and those who scream about it are looked at like they are dog turds to be scraped off a shoe.

However when we went into lockdown, the penalty for breaking lockdown unless urgent was up to $10 000. If you were not an emergency worker or a "required worker" then you were expected to stay home. There have been a few people who have been locked up because they refused to stay self isolated when required to.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue it?

"whatever you stand gain from the fine-incurring activity!"

A potentially debititating and possibly fatal disease.

[Falmari]

Re: Is the point of a personal interest that you persue it?

"A potentially debilitating and possibly fatal disease." Good point :). I suppose that is another risk to factor in with the £200 fine. I agree with Aaiieeee "Fines are a way of quantifying risk". If you want to do something and the fact that it is against the law does not deter you then the penalty will factor in to quantify the risk on whether to do it or not.

I follow the lock down rules because it is the right thing to do, not because of the fine (until this article I did not know) or even the potential health risk to myself.

[Sgt_Oddball]

And here I was..

Getting chuffed over seeing a lovely male Wren in the garden (it seems to be favouring my cherry tree at the moment in the morning).

Still it's a nice Tern for the books, and more interesting than the usual Great tits across the road...

Mines the one with the pocket guide to twitching...

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: And here I was..

"more interesting than the usual Great tits across the road"

You live in Downing St?

[WolfFan]

Re: And here I was..

Downing St. Is full of tits, but none of them are great at anything.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: And here I was..

Isn't "Great tits across the road" a compliment?

[Korev]

Re: And here I was..

>Getting chuffed over seeing a lovely male Wren in the garden (it seems to be favouring my cherry tree at the moment in the morning).

I saw it too, I was well choughed...

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine

Travelling all the way to this place only to find a bunch of tits there instead.

[DJV]

Re: Imagine

...but maybe they'll catch (sight of) some Co(r)vid as well - an opportunity not to be sniffed (and coughed) at!

[Doctor Syntax]

"Joke's on them."

Seems appropriate - after all, it's a mocking bird.

[Anonymous Coward]

Insanity.

Where America is FAR too opened up, Britain is FAR too locked down.

Right now, I can, at my option, go pretty much anywhere in the country. Nobody will stop me, nobody will fine me. Most of those places I could go without a mask, without any serious show of social distancing, without any real hint that anything is different than normal other than noticing some people wearing masks.

In my local area, everything is open. Restaurants, schools, offices, essentially everything. There's a mask "requirement" in that there's theoretically a $50 fine and up to 30 days in jail, but the local cops have announced that they will not enforce it, and they don't tend to wear masks themselves.

It's insane. It's killing lots of people.

Meanwhile the Brits can't even go for a perfectly safe drive. I mean, if you don't leave your car, you cannot conceivable transmit COVID, yet that's banned. Picking up food and eating in the car, banned. Looking at birds, banned.

It's insane. It's not helping anybody.

The people here throwing a fit about wearing a mask and having massive protests about it? Insane. The people there who aren't staging an absolute f-ing revolt about the excessive lockdown? Also insane.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I live in open country. I could go for a 10 mile walk and not even see anyone else, never mind meet them, yet if I happy to pass some jobsworth constable he'll not only put me at risk by approaching me, he'll fine me for the privilege of risking contamination.

It would be good if people could be trusted to apply common sense, but as we all know it's none too common.

[Daedalus]

You have to allow for the overcrowding in the UK, especially in the south. Most places in the US you can do something with little chance of finding a crowd, except near the big cities. Anything you want to do in southern England, you have to figure on a couple of thousand people wanting to do the same thing at the same time.

[jdiebdhidbsusbvwbsidnsoskebid]

Those things you mention aren't actually banned. It's the unnecessary travel bit that's banned, because that's what spreads the disease across different areas.

We in the UK are allowed to leave home for exercise. Because of that, just traveling in a car for the sake of a drive is unnecessary and therefore not allowed. The police have published their guidance on how to deal with unnecessary travel, it's all pretty open.

Sure, we night grumble about lockdown but the reason why we don't have loads of protests on the streets about it is because most people in the UK understand the reason for it, even if they might disagree with it. The government are being very open about publishing daily data updates, even right down to your local vicinity so it's ridiculously easy to be well informed. Unless of course you don't trust the official data, in which case you're in conspiracy theory land and nothing is going to make you feel good.

[Paul Cooper]

Waxwings

IIn the winter of 1995-1996, I was fortunate enough to have a flock of waxwings congregate in a crab-apple tree in our front garden. They're rare-ish winter visitors in the UK, so we did notice a fair number of people coming along to see them. All were very polite and very careful not to violate our privacy, remaining on the road and not attempting to enter our front garden even though they would probably have got closer and a better camera angle by doing so. When I first saw them (they're a fairly distinctive bird), I was quite worried about being besieged by hordes of anorak wearing twitchers, but in fact people were actually quite polite about it.

[Intractable Potsherd]

Re: Waxwings

What defines an anorak (the coat)? Why is is it a pejorative term for people?

[Daedalus]

Be thankful they're only visitors

Mockingbirds aren't that great to look at, and they're worse to hear. OK they're great mimics, but that's because they're incredibly territorial. Most time they just fly to the corners of their territory and squawk menacingly at the world. Bluejays are noisy too, almost as bad as crows. A cardinal in spring time, that's a bird to listen for.

[tiggity]

Re: Be thankful they're only visitors

But they are extremely rare visitors to the UK - hence some people ignoring lockdown rules to get a "tick" as its potentially a once in a lifetime chance (last one in UK was over 30 years ago, so its a birding "mega")

So its a totally different rarity league to something like (earlier mentioned) waxwings, which visit from Scandinavia just abut every winter (though numbers vary, each year sometimes lots, often just a few) and so even though they are very attractive to see they are not a "mega" (but a drab US vagrant is)

[Paul Cooper]

Re: Be thankful they're only visitors

So its a totally different rarity league to something like (earlier mentioned) waxwings, which visit from Scandinavia just abut every winter (though numbers vary, each year sometimes lots, often just a few) and so even though they are very attractive to see they are not a "mega" (but a drab US vagrant is)

They're progressively rarer as you travel south in the UK - I live near Cambridge, and waxwings in this area are something only seen maybe once a decade or even less frequently. They're seen much more frequently in Scotland and Northern England, but I think the year we had them (winter 1995-1996) was the latest time they've been seen in East Anglia - but I may be wrong.

[Anonymous Coward]

Rare bird, yes...

...but what does it taste like?

[Martin Summers]

Re: Rare bird, yes...

Chicken. Obvs.