back to article NHS awards £23m two-year deal to controversial Peter Thiel AI firm Palantir

The NHS has signed a £23m two-year contract with Palantir without scrutiny, even though the controversial AI firm's engagement with the UK health service was originally supposed to be a temporary, emergency measure to help address the COVID-19 pandemic. The deal, published on 18 December, is already said to be providing the …

  1. msknight

    "maintaining high standards of public trust"

    Errrr.... come at that again? The whole point of this argument in the first place, is because they don't have the public trust. At least, not mine anyway. This whole thing seems to have been a farce from start to ... well, it doesn't look like it will finish until we have a change of government.

    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Gimp

      Danger. Data fetishists at work.

      It smells already.

      Ming Tang. Process for facial recognition.

    2. JohnMurray

      Re: "maintaining high standards of public trust"

      By "change of govt", I assume you mean not only dumping all 650 MPs' but also the ship-jumping civil disservants who frequently bugger-off to the private sector taking all their knowledge and contacts to the Dark side?

      1. msknight

        Re: "maintaining high standards of public trust"

        I sat back and thought on this comment.

        Well, we should have been taken to 600 MP's some years ago, but that was thrown out the window. There was an attempt to start a middle of the road party and I'm somewhat upset that it didn't go anywhere. I would love the chance to end this partisan rubbish and have a government that actually considers things on their merits rather than revert to partisan crap and name calling.

        I mean, I know it's the job of the opposition party to oppose... but I'm tired of the bickering.

        As for the civil disservants... well, that's a difficult one. It's not ethical to tie them down, but I do believe a clause preventing them from working in the same sector for 12 months may be necessary. Taken out of the loop for that long might be an incentive to prevent all but the hardy. I mean, Nick Clegg being head of global affairs for Faceache... that must have been an embarrassment for the Lib Dems. The man's entitled to earn a living... but there are reputational consequences to this sort of thing. Not that each party doesn't have people who have done similar. It will be entertaining to see what what BoJo does next year.

        1. BebopWeBop
          Unhappy

          Re: "maintaining high standards of public trust"

          Your idea of 'entertaining' may well be somewhat different from mine.....

    3. Korev Silver badge
      Pirate

      Re: "maintaining high standards of public trust"

      It seems a common problem and not limited to the current lot (who admittedly are pretty bad), think about the Qinetq privatisation under Labour where <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinetiq#NAO_inquiry>the senior managers made over 100 million whilst getting poor value for money for the tax payer...</a>

  2. chivo243 Silver badge
    Pint

    Off topic

    Don't ever say Datastore and emergency in the same F@cK%2g sentence.... unless you really mean it! Must be my VMware pstd showing itself?

  3. Woodnag

    More evidence that UK will pull out of GDPR

    After FB announced UK will be subject to CA T'c and C's instead of EU on Jan 1.

    No way an American surveillance company managing UK health data passes any sort of GDPR test.

    1. renke

      Re: More evidence that UK will pull out of GDPR

      I strongly suspect that the EU doesn't care - Palantir is a day 1 member of Gaia-X.

    2. noboard

      Re: More evidence that UK will pull out of GDPR

      Ahh yes, the EU that allowed the US to process EU data in a non compliant way, then after a court battle admitted it was wrong and came up with another way of sharing data that was still non compliant.

      By all means call this government a corrupt piece of excrement, but don't pretend that the EU aren't the same. Both of them just want to be given money and not have to deal with the pesky people they represent.

      1. Intractable Potsherd

        Re: More evidence that UK will pull out of GDPR

        What are you referring to?

        1. renke

          Re: More evidence that UK will pull out of GDPR

          I'd guess Safe Harbour and Privacy Shield, both killed by the ECJ. Currently the EU and US try to define a new agreement to streamline the data exchange (actually mostly the processing of EU data in the USA, the other way round is probably not the typical use case).

          1. Strahd Ivarius Silver badge

            Re: More evidence that UK will pull out of GDPR

            It is the processing of EU data by the USA, mostly performed in India...

  4. Chris G

    NHS & Trust

    "include the steps which need to be taken to cease processing and to either destroy or return data to NHS England and NHS Improvement "

    Of course all of the data will have been copied to US servers that will have back ups all the way down.

    I am still of the opinion that the NHS and the health of Britons is such a valuable commodity that it is likely to be sold before Boris finishes his term.

    1. Woodnag

      I have a fix...

      ...mandate that private hospital records must be available to Palantir also. Oh gosh 'n' golly, let's not do this after all says Boris.

    2. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: sold before Boris finishes his term

      I would love to believe this but from what I have seen of our politicians "given away for free already" is far more likely.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: sold before Boris finishes his term

        They are so driven by their beliefs that they will pay people to do it.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: NHS & Trust

      "I am still of the opinion that the NHS and the health of Britons is such a valuable commodity that it is likely to be sold before Boris finishes his term."

      It's what we voted for. Indirectly in a referendum and as a clear point raised in a general election.

      1. Intractable Potsherd

        Re: NHS & Trust

        Is this an example of Poe's Law? I really can't tell.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: NHS & Trust

      Chris G said:

      "I am still of the opinion that the NHS and the health of Britons is such a valuable commodity that it is likely to be sold before Boris finishes his term."

      What, you think they don't already have it? Keep drinking that kool aid, bud. It tastes nicer than medicine.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    'When the pandemic abates and the outbreak is contained, we will close the COVID-19 datastore.'

    By the time the pandemic abates (which won't be any time soon given this government's performance), the datastore will escape deletion simply by having been relabelled for another purpose - flu vaccinations, dog fouling, Conservative-leaning voter engagement, post-Brexit dissident tracking...

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: 'When the pandemic abates and the outbreak is contained, we will close the COVID-19 datastore.'

      And it's easy to move the goalposts anyway. Given the high efficacy of the vaccine and the stable mortality rates per age group, you don't need sophisticated modelling to work out who should be vaccinated. And, surprisingly, models don't give you more supplies or clinical staff.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 'When the pandemic abates and the outbreak is contained, we will close the COVID-19 datastore.'

      Mike Richards said

      "(which won't be any time soon given this government's performance), "

      1 Who do you think would have done any better - with the information available at the time, not with the benefit of hindsight?

      2 If this government says "stay at home" and Covidiots say "fuck you I won't do what you tell me" and go out like nothing's happening, who is responsible for spreading the virus?

      3 How can a list of names and addresses - which they already have - help with "Conservative-leaning voter engagement" or "post-Brexit dissident tracking"? Or do you think the virus somehow targets only people who support the Tories or Brexit?

      Does Coronavirus even exist in your ivory tower?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: 'When the pandemic abates and the outbreak is contained, we will close the COVID-19 datastore.'

        1) pretty much anyone who’s first interest was not the syphoning of money into theirs mates bank accounts. The criminal actions that have been going on and they will get away with due to attitudes like yours like are inconceivable. We had a couple of months advanced notice. It was wasted. We had a summer of low cases due to a successfulish semi-lockdown. It was wasted. We had areas kept in lower tiers than they should have been. PPE that wasn’t fit for purpose or didn’t even turn up. How the fuck do you think anyone else couldn’t have done better?

      2. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: 'When the pandemic abates and the outbreak is contained, we will close the COVID-19 datastore.'

        Do you even know the history of Theil and Palantir?

        You can start with their past unauthorized medical experiments.

      3. Intractable Potsherd

        Re: 'When the pandemic abates and the outbreak is contained, we will close the COVID-19 datastore.'

        Don't feed the troll - let it go and pester some goats.

        1. BebopWeBop

          Re: 'When the pandemic abates and the outbreak is contained, we will close the COVID-19 datastore.'

          That worked well :-)

    3. DJO Silver badge

      Re: 'When the pandemic abates and the outbreak is contained, we will close the COVID-19 datastore.'

      I have every confidence they will do exactly that.

      Now about the reports, summaries, "anonymised" datasets, back-ups, excerpts, trained AIs and all other derivatives, they will stay.

  6. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

    Rogue Developer

    Remember the one that worked did the coding to slurp WiFi access point details when the Google Maps cars were driving around the world - I wouldn't be at all surprised if that person is now employed by this company.

  7. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    Palantir, a stock value

    I googled Palantir and half of the results of the first page discuss its stock value.

    I then did a search on IBM and there was only one result on the first page concerning its stock value. The rest was all about tech.

    I think that's all I need to know about Palantir. Nice name, but there's nothing behind it. I guess that's a perfect choice for the NHS.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: Palantir, a stock value

      Search for their unauthorized medical experiments.

      Lovely group of monsters.

  8. not.known@this.address
    Big Brother

    Names, addresses and DNA samples of most people in the UK.

    I'm sure they'll be deleting that dataset as soon as possible, for sure.

    1. terrythetech
      Headmaster

      Re: Names, addresses and DNA samples of most people in the UK.

      They may well say they have deleted it but how will they prove it. It will almost certainly still exist somewhere. That's the problem with digital data - it is so easy to copy.

      I am concerned about Palantir's involvement - see here from June 4th

      https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/we-must-be-told-what-cummings-and-palantir-are-doing-nhs-data/

  9. Spanners Silver badge
    Flame

    Criminals

    If someone, knowingly, does business with the Mafia, it is reasonable to think that they are a bit dodgy.

    Likewise, if someone does business with the CIA, we can call them crooks as well.

    Why are we using criminals to "help" the NHS?

  10. ecofeco Silver badge

    Not just the NHS

    "In an effort to achieve its goal of inoculating 100 million Americans by Q1 2021, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services partnered with data-mining firm Palantir to develop a software platform called Tiberius."

  11. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

    Isn't Thiel a dumb-as-feck Trumpist arsehole?

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Doctor: You’ll feel a little prick

    Patient: Don’t we all?

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "either destroy or return data to NHS England and NHS Improvement"

    You know which one it is going to be.

  14. JohnMurray

    Looks like a nice company

    https://www.blacklistednews.com/article/78734/palantirs-tiberius-race-and-the-public-health.html

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