back to article UK comms regulator: Could we interest sir in a bespoke broadband speed estimate?

New Ofcom rules will require ISPs to provide prospective customers with personalised speed estimates specific to their premises, rather than guesses derived from properties with similar characteristics. Although the previous system of estimation worked well for copper-based products, where speeds are influenced by things like …

  1. scrubber

    Suits you, Sir

    Does Sir's lady like it fast? Ooh, I bet she does. Is it a wide pipe sir has? Ooh, I bet it is.

    1. silks

      Re: Suits you, Sir

      There's a joke in PING (Packet Inter-Net Groper) to be had there, possibly also the UNIX "Finger" command is a step too far...

    2. Fred Dibnah

      Re: Suits you, Sir

      Actually it was 'Suit you sir'

      </pedantry>

  2. Refugee from Windows

    Speed guess?

    I've found that if you take their "Up to" figure and divide it by three and you'll be pretty close to what you get.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Speed guess?

      That's not been my experience - the "guess" (guaranteed minimium) I was given was 8Mb/s, and I get 20Mb/s (ADSL). There again, I am close to the cabinet ...

    2. AndrueC Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: Speed guess?

      So..the figure they give is correct then? The phrase 'up to' has two slightly different but equally valid meanings in English. Here's an example of the kind of usage intended by ISPs:

      Motor cars can travel at speeds up to 320mph.

      - An entirely correct statement even if you happen to own a Reliant Robin.

      You are connected using a technology that delivers speeds up to 80Mb/s.

      - An entirely correct statement even if your particular telephone line's characteristics limit your connection to 5Mb/s.

      Some would argue that you should be charged according to your speed. The problem with that argument is that's not representative of the costs to the ISP. The difference in running costs between a 5Mb/s and 70Mb/s connection is miniscule. It might even be more expensive for the slower service because:

      * It implies a poor quality line which is statistically more likely to experience faults.

      * Slightly more electrical power might be required to push the signal that distance (depends how much power is saved by not having to transmit/receive the higher frequencies).

      As far as actual usage a 5Mb/s connection running flat out 24/7/52 is probably more of a problem for the ISP than a 70Mb/s being used intermittently. Of course a 70Mb/s connection running flat out 24/7/52 is worst of all but it's a lot harder for most people to do that. What ISPs want is bursty traffic and a 70Mb/s connection is almost always going to be lovely, easy to deal with bursty traffic :)

      In my experience most estimates (and they are only estimates) are quite accurate. People I've known who got significantly less than what they were advised were experiencing various issues mostly internal to their own property. I've helped many people fix their broadband and get their connection speed back up to more or less what their ISP predicted.

      The only things I couldn't fix were people signing up to cheap ISPs who then got throughput drops during peak hours. But the solution there has always been to move to a better ISP. BT's last mile almost always has enough capacity, it's the ISP that often doesn't. As for VM - they just like to run a hot network and you have to live with it. At least there if you've signed up for 200Mb/s a 50% throughput drop might not be noticeable apart from the jitter.

      1. John Sager

        Re: Speed guess?

        a 70Mb/s connection is almost always going to be lovely, easy to deal with bursty traffic :)

        Not when I start watching 4k telly on iPlayer or Amazon. This is going to be more prevalent too. A mate has just got FTTP after suffering crap VDSL for years (Al!) and he's now thinking seriously about a 4k TV.

        1. AndrueC Silver badge
          Boffin

          Re: Speed guess?

          A 70Mb/s connection can handle multiple 4K streams with ease. You only need 20Mb/s and if not streaming live less would suffice, Given enough time to run through a decoder 15Mb/s will do. A good ADSL2 connection would be enough for a single 4K channel.

          So a 70Mb/s connection would be 'bursty' while carrying a 4K video stream. And of course we shouldn't overlook the fact that most people do not have 4K TVs and of those that do most are sitting too far away to detect the difference between 4k and 'standard' HD.

  3. AMBxx Silver badge
    Megaphone

    All this measuring!

    You don't make a pig fat by weighing it.

    Stop mucking about and put in place some penalties for not providing FTTP more widely.

    1. AndrueC Silver badge

      Re: All this measuring!

      They do. They are. Ofcom price control FTTC and ADSL but are allowing BT more or less free reign on how much they charge for FTTP. Last I heard FTTC was allowed to be barely profitable but ADSL has to be sold at a loss.

      But as for actual penalties: How is that in any way helpful? You're suggesting penalising a company that is struggling to finance an extremely expensive roll-out of technology that 90% (at least) of its customers don't need yet. There is no evidence of significant demand for FTTP speeds. Most people don't want it (or at least see no reason to pay for the best they can already get).

      Encouraging them to keep upgrading and investing makes sense. But there is no justification for penalising openreach. UK internet usage has always been amongst the highest in the world. The idea that most of the British public is being held back by BT's network is rubbish. There are a few people without access to a decent connection (~5%) and an even smaller number of people whose connection is inadequate for their particular needs.

      Well over 90% of the country have a connection they are happy with. Encouragement is what's needed not penalties.

  4. Caver_Dave Silver badge
    Unhappy

    It works both ways

    My FTTP provider's infrastructure is 1Gb only and uses bandwidth shaping for the different payment plans.

    So even though the whole network runs at 1Gb, OFCOM forced them to change all their media and publications from "1Gb" to "up to 1Gb"

    1. Muppet Boss

      Re: It works both ways

      Well, that's exactly what Ofcom is trying to change.

      Under the new regime, "up to 1Gbps" guaranteed that the connection will never be faster than 1Gbps, period. Could be as slow as snail mail, while perfectly as promised.

      Now they are trying to have the ISPs promise "at least X bandwidth, even in peak times", which sounds reasonable.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: It works both ways

        "Under the new regime, "up to 1Gbps" guaranteed that the connection will never be faster than 1Gbps, period. Could be as slow as snail mail, while perfectly as promised."

        Not really. The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations forbids making "true but misleading" statements. If "up to 1Gbps" ran at 900Mbps, that's fine, it it was 100Kbps, that's not.

  5. David Hicklin Bronze badge

    Sky

    Your info about Sky is a little bit out of date, got this with my out of contract notification (and a big price reduction to take another 18 months!):

    Sky subscribes to Ofcom's Voluntary Code of Practice on Broadband speeds which aims to ensure broadband providers give you all the information you need on speeds and what should happen if your line doesn't achieve those speeds.

    If you believe the speed you receive is lower than the Guaranteed Minimum Download Speed, you should contact us and we will help to improve your speed. If you think you're getting below your Guaranteed Minimum Download Speed (shown above), please get in touch so we can try to improve your speed. If we're unable to help within 30 days of contacting us, and your download speed falls below the minimum guaranteed on 3 consecutive days, you can choose to exit your contract without penalty. This does not affect your legal rights.

  6. Cliffwilliams44 Silver badge

    Rarely do I agree with the regulatory nonsense that occurs across the pond but this is one I could get behind if someone decided to do this here in the US.

    But... I'm not holding my breath!

    1. 96percentchimp

      You get what you deserve

      Given that your posting history displays a rabid streak of right-whingery, I'd say that you're getting exactly what you deserve in your low-regulation neo-liberal kleptocratic wonderland. Suck it up!

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