back to article UK MoD bungs Boeing £500m to plug gap left by a system it should have provided under £800m contract from 2010

The UK's Ministry of Defence has awarded Boeing Defence UK a £500m contract without external competition to replace "fragile and ageing legacy systems" it had already been charged with swapping out as part of a 2010 contract. Any lack of availability would "fundamentally impact the UK Armed Forces ability to operate …

  1. Paul Smith

    F*ck me! I'm in the wrong business

    If this was the plot of a BOFH story, it would rejected for being unbelievable .

    1. NeilPost Silver badge

      Re: F*ck me! I'm in the wrong business

      In this respect it’s hard to argue with You Know Who* about Defence Procurement being a shitfest and an ongoing a waste of money and control.

      * Cummings... not Voldemort.

  2. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    Well, is it or isn't it?

    In short, Boeing is getting a new contract to plug the gap left by a system it should have provided in the first place. At £500m, that's a pretty expensive stopgap.

    Sounds like an elegant negligent conspiracy to be denied which rewards fraud and non performance of product and program as contracted and agreed by client to accept and Boeing to deliver?

    1. macjules
      Facepalm

      Re: Well, is it or isn't it?

      In an age where the government is buying 40m 3M dust masks "because they look like n95 masks" for £200m and the masks are not even being delivered, £500m is peanuts in comparison.

      Especially when as a MoD procurer you probably get a bonus for sorting the mess out at only a few hundred more millions than the original contract cost.

    2. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: Well, is it or isn't it?

      It's almost like some insider favoritism, innit?

  3. Muscleguy

    When my wife’s university got a new student data system to replace the old one my wife who is BA Maths BSc CompSci rolled her sleeves up and wrote code for old times sake fun and to ensure the project both worked properly and the way as a user she wanted it work. A contribution not in her job description which pretty much got ignored by her employers. She did it for enjoyment and ensuring a usable system she would use going forward.

    1. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

      The proof of the pudding is in the eating

      When my wife’s university got a new student data system to replace the old one my wife who is BA Maths BSc CompSci rolled her sleeves up and wrote code for old times sake fun and to ensure the project both worked properly and the way as a user she wanted it work. A contribution not in her job description which pretty much got ignored by her employers. She did it for enjoyment and ensuring a usable system she would use going forward. ..... Muscleguy

      So proving beyond the shadow of any doubt, a true amateur easily eclipses any dedicated professional, Muscleguy ‽ .

      It is a lesson very seldom learned ...... which is very fortunate whenever endeavouring as a true amateur in any dedicated professional field. Pretty unfortunate for all dedicated professionals though, but hey, that's life and life's a bitch and then you die. Use it to learn some very seldom learned lucrative lessons.

      1. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge

        Re: The proof of the pudding is in the eating

        The ark was skippered by amateurs. The Titanic was skippered by professionals.

        1. Julz

          Re: The proof of the pudding is in the eating

          Both had less than stellar maiden voyages and weren't in a fit state for a second trip.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: The proof of the pudding is in the eating

          The Teignmouth Electron was also skippered by an amateur - Donald Crowhurst. It did not end well...

  4. BrownishMonstr

    You know, maybe the ones in charge of the tender need sacking.

    The Daily Mail complain about money going to the EU but it's really the bastards closer to home who burn a bigger slice of the pie.

    Makes your blood boil. But what can you do other than drink/eat the sorrows away.

    1. sanmigueelbeer Silver badge

      You know, maybe the ones in charge of the tender need sacking.

      What planet did you come from? That is now how public service works.

      The person in charge for the tender will first get a promotion.

      And if he/she keeps doing the same mistake thing, then he/she will get a board membership during retirement.

      1. ecofeco Silver badge

        Exactly. Board membership is the goal.

      2. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge

        Quote:

        "And if he/she keeps doing the same mistake thing, then he/she will get a board membership during retirement."

        What actually happens is that the person takes early retirement with full pension plus lump sum, then after 6 months, gets re-hired as a 'consultant' on twice the hourly rate they were before, then when that gig is up (usually after the press get hold of it) do they move to 'advisor' to the tendering company

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Downvote for the EU reference

      Absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. Unless you're suggesting an EU company would do better? (In which case you must be trying to be funny given how they're even worse than Boeing, in which case I'd consider removing the downvote.)

      AC because I am in a position to know exactly how badly EU companies try to screw the UK over.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Downvote for the EU reference

        "Absolutely nothing to do with the discussion."

        Actually, it's quite pertinant. The press are happy to complain about a large sum of money going to one organisation, but not an also large amount of money going to another, seems ... odd.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Downvote for the EU reference

        re: "AC because I am in a position to know exactly how badly EU companies try to screw the UK over."

        I think the poster was referring to the UK's EU contributions rather than EU companies. And the media's bias in stirring up the mob against one but not the other.

        Regardless, the nationality of the companies is irrelevant - they're all trying to milk the golden geese, British included - the point is that customer is well aware of that fact, since it's been happening for centuries, therefore the onus is on them to ensure they don't get screwed, particularly as they're (supposed to be) accountable for spending taxpayers money responsibly. Unfortunately, MOD project managers have been outwitted, yet again, by people far cleverer than themselves. Hence the current £30B black hole. Maybe the government should add that figure to the civil service pension deficit; oh wait, there isn't one, since that pot is sacrosanct, and funded by by a(nother) magic money tree, courtesy of the taxpayer.

        :(

        Or maybe the MOD could just buy only what it could afford, within budget and on time. There's a concept...

  5. Jon 37
    Paris Hilton

    Insane pricing.

    A competently-written logistics software program shouldn't cost £500m.

    OK, the contract probably includes servers, scanners, RFID tags, training, migration assistance, and support.

    But still £500m is a huge amount of money for this.

    Over the 6 years (I guess - it's nearly 2021 and the article says this is to be done before sometime in 2027), that would pay for 416 full-time people each earning £100,000 a year, and you'd still have half the money left over to cover overheads, hardware, and profit.

    Of course that's because it's a government defence contract.

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Insane pricing.

      It probably also incudes the staff to run it too. That seems to be the "modern way" with MoD contracts. No need to have uniformed people getting their hands dirty doing something a civvy can do for twice the price.

  6. Chris G

    Boeing Boing! Gone!

    Please sir can we have some more (money)?

    So cross out flying on some of their aircraft as well as asking them to provide software for anything else.

    They clearly have their hand up someone's back in the MOD.

  7. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    But this is not *any* plain old logistics system.

    Nosireeee.

    This is extra-special super-duper complex MoD used-by-absoluetly-no-one-else-on-the-planet logistics system.

    Because y'know those 23 000 civil servants in MoD procurement have to show they do something all f**king day long.

    1. ecofeco Silver badge

      Re: But this is not *any* plain old logistics system.

      Those turboencabulators aren't cheap!

  8. Lazygrangebay

    Can I offer to do a job ..and I will do it for £0.01..

    Then the British government can pay me £100000000 to not do it..

  9. sanmigueelbeer Silver badge
    Coat

    Future Logistics Information Services (FLIS) project

    Failed

    Logistics

    Essentially

    Extinct

    Computing

    Equipment

    I call it FLEECE.

  10. ghp

    From the team that brought you the 737 MAX.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      And the man who didn't forsee any potential issues with enjoying congress with a large stallion.

      Boeing engineers.... Not even once.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Nah, Boeing Defence and Commercial operations are entirely separate entities.

      1. EnviableOne

        BDS and BCA are both divisions of the boeing company HQ'd in Chicago, still run under the same parent by the McDD management who have the one guiding principle:

        "make me more dollars"

  11. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    Cuckolds'R'Us

    Whenever one considers the present plundering of the Treasury and the lumbering of future innocent ignorant generations with past arrogant debt and deficits, and with all of that being proposed and presented/sanctioned and supported by Parliamentary representatives, one does have to wonder at the worth of UK Ministry of Defence chiefs and forces, who allow it all to happen so blatantly on their watch. Or are you seeing a completely different bigger picture show?

    WTF are they waiting on whenever everything is being so comprehensively destroyed right before their very own eyes? Secret Sealed Five Eyes Orders? Strewth!

    J'accuse.

    1. ClockworkOwl
      WTF?

      Re: Cuckolds'R'Us

      "WTF are they waiting on"

      The next brandy mostly...

      I honestly remember getting feel for just how out of touch that world is, on the very few occasions my dads work for the navy brought him into contact with "bigwigs." As he was a civilian techie, that wasn't very often noticed, but later he was part of the team who procured the new mainframe at Manadon, and there was quite a lot of kudos involved for the base higher-ups.

      Navy dinners are truly surreal, and that's only the ones civilians are invited to..!

      Some of the oldest, in so many senses of the word, institutons are ensconsed at the heart of our military, and the navy is the most obtuse.

      But brandy, and port, but mostly brandy...

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And politicians wonder why the MOD has a £30B black hole

    That would because no one in government is held to account for wasting tax payers money.

    :(((

  13. ecofeco Silver badge

    IBM? That was their first mistake.

    Oh wait, wrong company.

    Same difference though.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I would say it's reassuringly expensive.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Anon for obvious reasons, and I have to be careful what I write ...

    I'm not involved in logistics, but from where I am I can see some of what is done there.

    There are huge legacy problems, some of which come from the historical issue of the different services all doing their own thing. It's easy to say "you can buy a logistics system off the shelf for less" - but it's just not practical to rip and replace everything "big bang" fashion just because of the scale of the operation and the wide range of activities covered.

    Only last week we saw the official publication of the new Defence Support Operating Model (DSOM) https://www.techuk.org/what-we-deliver/events/mod-defence-support-strategy-launch.html which is a fairly large (as you might imagine) project to bring all aspects of support under one umbrella and try to get some economies of scale across all the domains. But it's not going to be a quick fix - there's a lot of existing contracts, some of which run for many years. And as already said, it's a mammoth task with a very large number of different systems.

    It is recognised that there's a big problem - and there really is a lot of work going on to fix it. And yes, it is recognised that there is often a lack of complete enforcement of contracts for various reasons - as exemplified by the case in this argument.

  16. Potemkine! Silver badge

    Please prepare £300 for the next step

    Boeing has a new plan: the Military Advanced Configuration System (MACS). What could go wrong?

  17. Cliffwilliams44 Silver badge

    I'm still trying to wrap my head around why you would award a contract for an Information System to an aircraft manufacturer?

    Especially one who mucked up the software for one of their aircraft in recent history!

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Army, Navy, and Airforce"

    I see that 'Air Force' is now one word.

    Good to know.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like