back to article Shopping online for Xmas? AI chatbots know whether you want to be naughty or nice

It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you have clicked on Add to Basket. T-800, eat your endoskeletal lubricant pump out: I'm talking about the new wave of ecommerce virtual assistants. It seems that you are not the only …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re: shoe-fitting fluoroscope

    Our local Co-Op Department store in the Midlands still had one of those in the mid-70s, so 20+ years later than the IEEE say they were removed.

    Good to have you back Dabbsy, yes I know it's not the first week dear commentards.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Re: shoe-fitting fluoroscope

      A shoe store (Brown Shoes?) in Los Altos, California also still had one into the mid 1970s.

    2. Anonymous Cowtard

      Re: shoe-fitting fluoroscope

      A shoeshop in Whitstable had one in the late 70s, it was sometime after 1980 it was removed.

    3. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

      Re: shoe-fitting fluoroscope

      There was a machine I used as a child in the shoe shop in the 1970s I suppose, but that was just with a hole to put your socked foot in, each in turn, then metal blocks slid in from front/rear then left/right to touch your foot and there was a display of the calculated size. Not X-Rays.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe-fitting_fluoroscope

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    My name's Dabbs

    Alistair Dabbs :)

  3. jake Silver badge

    You can tell ELIZA about your mother without visiting a web site ...

    ... assuming you have a copy of EMACS installed. Simply type M-x doctor.

  4. chivo243 Silver badge
    FAIL

    still a ways to go

    I had a simple question for the chatbot... after 20 or so seconds it recommended I make a phone call and speak to a human!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: still a ways to go

      That's not a fail, I'd call that a damn-well programmed interface. MY experience with the damn things, from Comcast and Juniper, are that they can only help you find the top 3 answers that 1) you already know or 2) are actually printed in the text on the page you're currently viewing...

      What I like are tech support like the lady at Dell Data Security. I've had to call twice, and because I didn't take good notes during the first call, as soon as my second call 3-4 months after my first call was answered, she said "Did you forget that you have to ...(whatever the solution was)?" She was absolutely correct. I felt like an idiot because (whatever the solution was) was the answer to the question that 1) I hadn't asked yet and 2) was the same question I had 3-4 months previous and 3) was simple, straightforward, and logical.

      1. chivo243 Silver badge
        Meh

        Re: still a ways to go

        Maybe I expect too much? It was a tech supply shop, I was looking for 4GB DDR3 DIMM 1333 MHz (1x4GB) I know it's a rare.

        1. IceC0ld

          Re: still a ways to go

          you still looking ?

          I would imagine that within these fine walls, many a stick of RAM is lurking, I KNOW in my place, old RAM comes to wait out the planets demise :o)

        2. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

          Re: still a ways to go

          It is not difficult to buy computer memory of the wrong kind: I think if the chatbot referred you to a human salesperson, it was a smart decision.

          I once dealt with two PCs having had apparently identical memory upgrades - as far as I could tell - but one not booting properly, although masked by cached RAM up to a point. Cache turned off, the RAM seemed to just fade back to 00000000 after a few seconds.

          I swapped the RAM from each PC into the other, and both were fine.

          Evidently not 100 percent identical, then.

          So we just left them swapped.

    2. John Miles

      Re: still a ways to go

      did the repeating message while waiting for someone to answer suggest you use the webpages to find the answers while you waited

      1. chivo243 Silver badge

        Re: still a ways to go

        Google had a page listed, the link couldn't be found on the site. I searched for the item, it suggested a phone call. I found it else where with free delivery.

  5. Lucy in the Sky (with Diamonds)

    Back in the Telepone Days...

    Back in the telephone days, there were companies that tried automated voice recognition systems which insisted on wanting to make me use voice commands. Through trial and error, it came to me to keep my mouth shut, just randomly mash buttons like Tekken™ and lo an behold an actual human materialised, spoke to me and assisted with my enquiry…

    I do not chat with humans, let alone have the urge to waste time chatting with a pretend artificial intelligence Thinggie…

    I mean, HAL 9000 was cool, but that is so 1969 it is not funny…

    Chatbots are so 1969…

    Sorry HAL...

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Back in the Telepone Days...

      Northern Powergrid has an interesting variant. Option 2, fault reporting, asks for our post code then repeats what the recorded greeting told you, i.e. the area they serve, then tells you you don't appear to be in it and aks if you want to speak to an advisor. It understands "yes" with no trouble and puts you through to a human who then asks for your post code and has no trouble in determining that you are indeed in their area.

    2. skershaw54

      Re: Back in the Telepone Days...

      And HAL wouldn't open the pod bay doors.

      And neither will Siri. I've asked.

  6. Chris G

    Dabbsy, you don't appear to be that impressed by the wonders of AI and Blockchain.

    Bootnote: Having spent a lot of time in the past raising horses and dealing with farmers, the first thought when I see AI is Artificial Insemination.

    1. Andy Non Silver badge

      Either way, they leave you feeling somewhat violated.

    2. Alistair Dabbs

      I'm absolutely impressed by blockchain. It's cryptocurrencies that I think are not to be trusted.

      1. Mage Silver badge

        Re: impressed by blockchain

        Yes, it's really clever. But what use is it? Other than to add a sciency ring to a tulip pyramid selling scam.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: impressed by blockchain

          Yes, it's really clever. But what use is it?

          AES 256 CBC encryption uses it (in a slightly different way than that used in cryptocurrency) to ensure that if you encrypt the same data using the same key multiple times, the encrypted data string will be different every time, which reduces the effectiveness of some attack vectors.

    3. jake Silver badge

      About three years ago my large animal Vet came in with a funny bit of advertising. This guy's in his second career, he became a Vet after 25 years as a DBA working for IBM. He knows I'm a computer guy, and thought I'd be amused. The ad was for a large animal veterinary practice management software package "NOW WITH AI!!!"

      The Vet was laughing, and wondered how many times the company in question got Vets inquiring about their new Artificial Insemination package. Without a pause, I dialed the 800 number ... the answer was over 80% of calls! The guy on the other end wasn't amused when I suggested they fire their marketing genius and hire an AI expert ...

  7. macjules
    Meh

    Based upon your order history ..

    Our amazing BezosBot AI™ has analysed that since for the past 6 months you have been buying useless tat from Amazon during lockdown then you will want to buy these amazing products for your family for Christmas. Do not worry: in the true tradition of an Amazon purchase they will either be unusable, break quickly or have a completely intelligible manual that only a pygmy tribe from just north of the Gobi desert can translate for you.

    Happy Religious Festival of your choice from everyone at Jeff's Grotto of Tat

    1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: Based upon your order history ..

      since for the past 6 months you have been buying useless tat from Amazon during lockdown then you will want to buy these amazing products for your family for Christmas

      I think Covid-19 cut off the supply of tat from conferences for family Christmas presents

      https://www.theregister.com/2017/11/03/those_it_gadget_freebies_youve_been_collecting_they_make_awful_christmas_presents/

    2. skeptical i
      Thumb Down

      Re: Based upon your order history ..

      Don't forget that your fine fine tat will be lovingly packed and delivered by overworked human robots coerced into wage-slavery by the glorious unemployment. Celebrate right-to-work laws along with that religious festival, m'kay?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Based upon your order history ..

        I didn't get where I am today by caring about people

        C.J./Jeff Bezos

  8. Alistair Dabbs

    Missing bits

    You won't have noticed but three paragraphs fell out of my column this week. They concerned an automated metadata tagging system devised by a porn site to recognise and tag different types of sex act in user-uploaded videos. This is what I was referring to in my sig at the end.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Missing bits

      Why? Did you get an automated preemptive DCMA takedown request from MindGeek? Goddamit, I watched one gay interracial midget bdsm video because it i thought it was funny (and it really, really was), and now that's the only kind of vids they offer me... and I can't just log into my modem and release/renew to get a different address to escape their classifier.

      1. Rich 11

        Re: Missing bits

        Never mind. When your IP lease does eventually expire you can take some satisfaction from the thought that some unsuspecting poor sod is soon to be inundated with gay interracial midget bdsm videos.

    2. Rich 11

      Re: Missing bits

      Missing bits... three paragraphs fell out of my column

      I hope your good lady wife won't be too disappointed.

  9. Franco

    I'm clearly becoming a greybeard.

    20 years or so ago that little bastard clippy could induce a level of rage that would invoke Yosemite Sam telling you that you needed to calm down a bit when you realise you've been typing away merrily but none of it is in the document because clippy has changed the focus in the name of being "helpful".

    Nowadays every second website has a similar malignant little bastard hiding in the lower right corner of the screen trying to tell you that if you just bough coffee you might want some shoe polish. Don't get the correlation myself, but as I've often said before Amazon (amongst others) never suggest I might want to repurchase anything consumable, it's almost always things like tools or paint rollers that it thinks I need weekly.

    The one criticism I have of my ISP (Origin) is that their tech support is one of the little bastards lurking in the lower right corner as well, although I suppose it's better than the old days of phoning BT during an outage to be told "you can find lots of help on our website". Not right now I can't.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Just try using Jira and Confluence, where losing focus or just ignoring what you're typing or screwing up the styles are all features, not bugs, and they have been for years.

      1. Franco

        Ha, just set up SAML SSO for a Jira/Confluence deployment a few months ago. Don't get me started on that, especially the "date not in correct format" crap you get with change management when you type 5/11/20 and it changes it to 5/Nov/20 then tells you the format is wrong.

        Still orders of magnitude better than BMC Remedy, which is hands down the worst helpdesk system I have ever used. Including using an Excel spreadsheet.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          I thought Remedy was terrific in the late 1990's.

          1. Franco

            Can't comment on that, I used it in 2014 and spent more time clicking through the 45 screens required to close a call than I did fixing said call.

            Might just have been a bad implementation, but has forever sullied my view of the product.

            1. A.P. Veening Silver badge

              Only 45 screens? Where is/was the shortcut?

        2. Giles C Silver badge

          The problem with remedy is it is too customisable. Out the box it is apparently quite good, but then someone decides to improve it.

          My current workplace has just implemented a new change control system which for one change will email you about 10 times.

          When the change is created

          When the change is Submitted

          When the first approval is complete

          When the second approval is complete

          When you start the change

          A nag if you don’t start when the change was set for

          A nag if you don’t finish the change at the set time (repeatedly)

          When you complete the change

          And that is before it comes back from someone needing revisons....

      2. veti Silver badge

        I had a job interview a few weeks ago, that I think was decided when I asked what system they used for bug tracking and they said "Jira".

        I couldn't quite stifle the yelp of dismay in time.

        1. jake Silver badge

          My eldest niece reported a similar experience applying for a summer intern job in '19. She responded "I'm sorry, would you like me to fix that for you?" ... She didn't get the job. I wonder why? It's hard to find such helpful kids these days!

    2. J.G.Harston Silver badge

      The bane of lockdown and working from home is having to use Zoom and the way it bullies its way on top of the window stack and

      then

      slows

      the

      entire

      machine

      down

      as

      it

      hogs

      ever

      yth

      ing

      for

      some

      go

      d for

      s

      a

      k

      e

      n

      r

      e

      ason.

    3. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

      Coffee and shoe polish both are associated with cherries, although I don't know why "Cherry Blossom" is something to clean shoes with. I don't think it is made in Japan where they go for such things, but maybe Grangers International wanted us to think that it is.

  10. Mage Silver badge
    Pirate

    The shoe-fitting fluoroscope.

    Fortunately it wasn't plugged in. Perhaps the penny had dropped. It was gone by the time of the next visit.

  11. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "I am unable to log in to my account. A help message tells me that I can correct this by logging in to my account. Could you locate the copywriter responsible for your site's UX interactions and punch him in the face for me?"

    The last sentence is sufficient on its own and is universally applicable.

  12. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    ""The item is marked 'out of stock'. When will it be 'in stock'?""

    The standard answer to this is "We don't know".

    1. MiguelC Silver badge

      Or maybe "tomorrow", but tomorrow never comes

    2. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

      If they know and it isn't "never", then the Web site may say when, instead of "Out of stock". So "Out of stock" does mean "Don't know".

      I think that while I was browsing the catalogue in Sainsburys Argos the other day, what I was looking at got changed on the home page from something like "Order now, pick It up on Friday" to "Out of stock".

      And I think my experience there is, once out of stock, forever out of stock. The previous time, some months ago, I was scouring Argoses across lockdown land (a special circumstance) for a Microsoft Surface Go (and ironically unlock it). Plan B became to buy one that my sister could have sent to her house or could collect - it was somewhere where Argos delivers to her but not to me. But Argos wouldn't deliver my purchase to her address, so Plan C was for her to buy it... but in the meantime, Plan D or E was to buy from the John Lewis online shop, which I did and I'm "typing" on it now.

  13. Andy Non Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Shell Energy

    has one of those crappy so called AI helper bots. All I want to do is update my email address on their site, but there is no feature to do that, alongside my old email address it says to contact them to change it. Clicking contact takes you to their bot. After asking it how to change email address it gives you a link to the previous screen where you can change your phone number but not your email address. So you go around in circles.

    Asking the bot if I can speak to a person results in it saying nobody is available. On one "lucky" occasion three months after my email address had changed it actually put me in a queue at position 99 to chat to real human being. Over an hour later I'd got to position 12 in the queue, then got a message saying "reconnecting" and I was dropped from the queue.

    I did a google search on how to contact Shell Energy and found an email address for their customer services. Sent them an email and a week later still no reply. I will be changing energy supplier at the end of my contract. Replacing the majority of their customer services staff with a so called AI bot is as useful as a chocolate penis.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Shell Energy

      https://www.ceoemail.com/ is your friend for occasions like this.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Shell Energy

        I looked up our trust on it, The email is right but the phone number is for the main switchboard. They may not put you directly through to the "fromage grande".

    2. David Roberts
      Windows

      Re: Shell Energy

      You now have me salivating for themed confectionery.

      Hardly useless during lockdown.

      {Note to self: don't ask about the cream filling.}

    3. tiggity Silver badge

      Re: Shell Energy

      @Andy Non

      "AI bot is as useful as a chocolate penis"

      No, have to disagree there, chocolate penis has some uses - it tastes a lot better than a real one when you suck it & it doesn't get you pregnant

      1. KittenHuffer Silver badge

        Re: Shell Energy

        But enough of them will make you look like you're pregnant!

    4. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Shell Energy

      "On one "lucky" occasion three months after my email address had changed it actually put me in a queue at position 99 to chat to real human being. Over an hour later I'd got to position 12 in the queue, then got a message saying "reconnecting" and I was dropped from the queue."

      Have you considered that there was never a human involved at all and you only got to position 12 because the people in front also got dropped from the queue? They just build the delay in to make it seem like there's some sort of real process happening.

  14. Gene Cash Silver badge

    My mother

    My mother used to tell people "they broke the mold when they made him -- thank god!"

    I've recently had issues with actual human non-intelligence online. I'm selling my old house and I asked my credit union for a realtor through their online service.

    So the realtor instantly sets up a search portal to find houses for me to buy.

    Then sends me an email containing such gems as:

    "We understand that [Your Company] connected you with one of our agents (name redacted) who is top agent in your marketplace."

    and

    "In a moment, I will be reaching out to check in with you to be sure you are having the best real estate experience possible, as a [Your Company] VIP Client of ours."

    And they wonder why I no longer want their services.

    Edit: yes, [Your Company] was an actual unfilled mailmerge placeholder

    1. Andy Non Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: My mother

      "I've recently had issues with actual human non-intelligence online."

      I recently had the misfortune to contact PayPal's customer service regarding problems with PayPal accepting my postal address. He asked me if I was in the UK and I told him that I was in England. He said "So you aren't in the UK then." Duh.

      1. Andy A

        Re: My mother

        Don't forget that they are Murkans, and so know nothing about geography. Most can not understand that the English language is so called because it reached them from England.

        It's not just the Outside World that is unfamiliar. The Atlanta Olympics had two ticket lines, one for USA and the other for everywhere else. People from the state of New Mexico were told that they needed to redial and use the "everywhere else" desk.

        1. Andy Non Silver badge

          Re: My mother

          From the guy's heavy Indian accent I'd say he wasn't American.

        2. jake Silver badge

          Re: My mother

          "Don't forget that they are Murkans, and so know nothing about geography."

          You Brits aren't exactly immune to this kind of thing ... A friend of mine's Wife was absolutely certain that London was south of where they lived, because "my Uncle lives in South Kensington, which is near London" ... Their abode? Croydon.

          Another example: This Yank workedvolunteered[0] as a tour guide in York during his time in Yorkshire. You wouldn't believe how many British folks asked where "Old York" was ... usually while standing in The Shambles or in the castle or on the wall. Their logic was that they were in York, they knew of New York, so there must be an Old York, right?

          [0] It was part & parcel of the archeological work I lucked into helping out with.

        3. jake Silver badge

          Re: My mother

          "Most can not understand that the English language is so called because it reached them from England."

          It's not our fault we speak it the way it was spoken when we bailed out, while you lot have, over time, perverted the beauty of the language.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: My mother

      "Realtor" is one of those really weird American words that I find non-cromulent and just can't take seriously as a real word. (Along with "faucet", "burglarized" and doubtlessly some others that I can't think of just now.)

      Yes, I'm sure <troll>proper English</troll> also has some words that you folk over there think are equally bizarre, but I'm just saying...

  15. Bbuckley

    Alexa! F**k off.

    1. Rich 11

      Alexa replies with a low, falling 'bong' sound. I'm not impressed. I'm sure I remember her previously replying with, "I'm sorry, Dave, I can't do that."

      1. Franco

        It would be much better if she replied in the style of the old Sierra Software games. IIRC Leisure Suit Larry just said "same to you pal" whereas the less risque games like Space Quest would go with something like "does your mother know you talk like that?"

        Or perhaps Life of Brian style would be better. "How shall we fuck off, O Lord?"

  16. A.P. Veening Silver badge

    "Your delivery estimate was 3 working days. Did you mean days on which you trouble yourself to get out of bed to do some work or just weekdays with a letter W in them?"

    The correct answer to this is "Just weekdays with a letter Q and a letter X in them".

  17. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    On the whole businesses would be better off replacing AI with IA: Intelligent Anticipation

  18. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    Great article, once again !

    And thank you so much for that link. I will be referencing that to no end every time I have the opportunity to put down some blabbering idiot who thinks that his "investments" are secure.

    That said, there is a bit of fluff in that article, such as this :

    "Blockchain is primarily used for recording transactions made with cryptocurrencies, such as Bitcoin. However, it has many other applications as well. "

    Many others ? Such as ? Oh, yes, there is Ethereum, LiteCoin, and other funny-money apps. It's the same thing.

    The one "application" that is indeed different is, from the article, Tron, which is "a blockchain-based decentralized platform with a goal to build a free, global digital content sharing system ". Yay, we will get to have a free second Internet, that we will have to pay the storage space and the bandwidth for. Great idea, guys. Revolutionary even.

    My opinion on blockchain is not changed : anything using it is useless and a nuisance.

    1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

      Blockchain uses

      I'm not defending the blockchain hype but if you consider it to be what it is -- an append-only data stream -- it has uses beyond cryptocurrencies, such as log file storage in which any tampering can be detected due to the cryptography involved.

      You can do this with other approaches, of course. If you think of BC as an append-only data stream, it melts away the hype.

      C.

    2. Alistair Dabbs

      Re: Great article, once again !

      The trick with blockchain is to try to forget anything to do with monetary currency and concentrate on its application as a distributed, tamper-proof database which engenders mutual trust. Four years ago when I was still trying to warn people about the financial Ponzi scheme that is cryptocurrency, I wrote this about using blockchain for environmental applications.

      1. cd

        Re: Great article, once again !

        If blockchain is a record of each transaction, how do people get away with stealing cryptocurrencies? It seems like the tranactions and the participants would be trackable.

        I've not "invested" in them, so it might be a naive question, but it if currencies can be stolen, why can't electricity be stolen? What makes the currencies different?

        1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

          "how do people get away with stealing cryptocurrencies?"

          They launder it through other crypto-currencies, exchanges, and marketplaces, so that the trail stops. Until they do that, you can follow the movement of the funds, and there are companies out there that make a living out of tracing coin transfers for the cops and others.

          C.

  19. James Anderson

    Boulton Watt

    Que? No unastan.

    1. tiggity Silver badge

      Re: Boulton Watt

      @James Anderson

      https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/50-pound-note

      For any non UK people

  20. TimMaher Silver badge
    Pint

    Floor polish.

    “Do you sell shiny floor polish for wooden staircases?“

    That was very dark Dabbsy. Even by your standards.

    Hence the pint.

    1. herman

      Re: Floor polish.

      Dabbsy forgot the quicklime and carpet.

  21. Olivier2553

    Live experience...

    Our major online-store in Thailand has launched their robot assistant a short while back. But apparently typing "human" will get you into contact with a warm body.

    And it is really live because I have the chat going in another tab.

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