back to article NHS COVID-19 contact tracing app is leaving some unable to access government self-isolation grants

The NHS COVID-19 contact tracing app for England and Wales* has a major flaw. Yes, another one. People told to self-isolate by the app are unable to access a code required to claim a £500 financial support grant. The grant is designed to support low-income workers on benefits who are unable to work from home. At present, only …

  1. seven of five

    Might be on purpose.

    That actually might be a feature to bring the cost down.

    A little.

    1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

      Re: Might be on purpose.

      I thought it was a feature. Instructions to isolate from the app are purely advisory, not legally binding, and I'm not sure there's any way to determine an individual has genuinely received such an instruction.

      That means anyone fancying a small windfall could claim they were told to self-isolate and demand their free £500.

      The government won't pay for school meals, seems to want to drown migrants in the Channel, so I'm not surprised there's no magic code for a free handout of cash.

      And I'm not surprised that lying shit Hancock is lying again. This government has a full quota of world-beating lying liars.

      1. ElectricPics

        Re: Might be on purpose.

        That’s what the ‘government’ have come out and said now. Anyone eligible for the 500 quid has to be told to self isolate by NHS Test and Trace, so they have to log on to the website after receiving a text and/or email, and follow up call where they get the code.

      2. Cederic Silver badge

        Re: Might be on purpose.

        The government won't pay for school meals, seems to want to drown migrants in the Channel, so I'm not surprised there's no magic code for a free handout of cash.

        The Government does pay for school meals. The Government is declining to pay for meals for children that aren't in school. Their parents already receive money from the Government to pay for those meals.

        As for migrants drowning in the Channel, if they're stupid enough to get into a dingy when they can't swim and fall out in French waters, I'm really very confused how you think that's anything to do with the British Government. If you think this is an issue that needs to be addressed perhaps you should write to the French authorities and tell them to prevent people traffickers from operating from their shores and stop idiots from taking to sea in breach of French law.

        1. Martin 47

          Re: Might be on purpose.

          .......don't you come on here with your logic and stuff.

          I regret, however, that I can only give you one upvote.

        2. John Robson Silver badge

          Re: Might be on purpose.

          Except that they haven't been getting those meals for several months whilst the schools have been closed.

          This is keeping kids who live in poverty above the hunger line, it's not even a large "handout", and it's money they haven't spent over the last few months.

          1. Cederic Silver badge

            Re: Might be on purpose.

            Schools have been open since September.

            Local councils already receive Government funding to address local needs. Why aren't they assuring children are appropriately looked after?

            As for poverty, really? Child poverty in this country is almost non-existent - go to rural areas in central parts of Africa and tell me that British children are in poverty.

            Sorry, you'll have to forgive me for being raised in a household with no spare cash, wearing second hand clothes, never eating fast food and never flying anywhere on holiday until I was in my late 20s. I like the state providing a safety net for people but I also firmly believe in people taking responsibility for themselves.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Might be on purpose.

          Might have known a staunch Tory brexitter would have no compassion for human life.

  2. TimMaher Silver badge
    Meh

    Zuhlke Engineering (Excluding the umlaut)

    And they are?

    Sounds vaguely Swiss-German.

    1. Tom 7

      Re: Zuhlke Engineering (Excluding the umlaut)

      The word used to mean 'thingamabob' or other undefinable pile of junk in the lab when I was in the states.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    meh

    Hancock just told a 'future truth'.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: meh

      The traditional phrase is "terminological inexactitude".

      Nowadays "world beating" amounts to much the same thing.

      1. Tom 7

        Re: meh

        Due to noise on the line bitflip errors are now known as titflip.

    2. Primus Secundus Tertius

      Re: meh

      Ministers generally say what their civil servants tell them. So the ignorance is probably in the civil service. As it always has been.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: meh

        I think now it's just a critical mass of bastards, both MPs and civil servants. Certainly the Home Office has been for some time but now it's spreading like a virus.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: meh

        "So the ignorance is probably in the civil service."

        That doesn't preclude the politicians also being ignorant, and Hancock especially.

        1. JohnMurray

          Re: meh

          Refer to him as HanDick[head] from now ?

          1. Kablex
            Happy

            Re: meh

            Hatt ManCock has a better ring to it ... Fnnr! Fnnr!

      3. Tom 7

        Re: meh

        If Einstein was Handcocks civil servant advisor he'd still get it wrong.

  4. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Trollface

    Simple

    Onboard everyone to the contract tracing app development team as a Consultant . Receive £6000 per day

  5. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    There's nothing like a well thought-out scheme and this is nothing like ....

  6. Grease Monkey Silver badge

    Matt Handjob is a serial liar in answer to questions on the house. I can't quite figure out how motivation. It could be v that his boss's inability to tell the truth has rubbed off on him. It could be that he gives the answers he thinks will get people of his back for at least a few hours, at least until they have gone out and checked his answers and found out he's lying. But I suspect the real reason is that he is actually totally gullible and he simply replies with the facts given to him by his lackeys and contractors without checking his facts first.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      It would be interesting to ask how many ministers and MPs (oh, and "advisers") have the app installed on their phones - obviously Hancock doesn't.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge
        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
          Paris Hilton

          The Scene: Parliamentary Resaurant

          Excuse me Sir/Madame, please scan the QR code or give me your name and phone number for track and trace purposes.

          DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM!!!!!!!

          Paris, because show knows who she is!

          1. Screwed

            On Thursday, we visited a place to have a cuppa - very quiet, outside, in a low risk area so as safe as possible. We were told that the name and phone number is legally required - regardless scanning the QR.

            Which seems to make yet further nonsense of the system.

            (We have previously been told, elsewhere, that scanning the QR was sufficient.)

            1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

              It's one or the other, but as always, some people don't bother to learn and understand the rules and use their faulty interpretations.

              Just look at DBS certificates (previously CRB) My work sometimes takes me into schools, where I'm invariably asked if if have one. I do, because our company pays out for them to done/renewed as required, but we don't need them. We are never left unsupervised with children, let alone the SAME children on at least two occasions within two weeks as per the rules, but schools are in CYA mode and insist we have a cert. One school even insisted they had to see mine. I told them no. Here's the Cert No., phone up and check if you must but you have no legal right to physically see it. They got antsy about it but did whatever they do to check the Cert No. and very grudgingly agreed that all they need to know was that I was not prohibited from working there. Whether I was a reformed mass murderer wasn't relevant and they didn't need to know :-)

              1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

                "very grudgingly agreed"

                Hopefully the grudge was because they got a flea in their ear for not knowing the rules in the first place.

    2. Grease Monkey Silver badge

      OK so here's a perfect example of Handjobs lying ways:

      On Monday he told the BBC that Johnson was talking to Marcus Rashford.

      Minutes later Rashford said he hadn't spoken to number 10 since June.

      Shortly after that number 10 clarified that Johnson hadn't spoken to Rashford since "summer" (there's accuracy for you) they didn't go so far as to call Handjob a liar outright but they may as well have done.

      The man actually tells more porkies than his boss.

  7. This post has been deleted by its author

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The guidance given by the app is not compulsory, I think, so why would anybody expect to be able to claim money on the basis of it?

    I would expect to be able to claim iff I was given a legally-binding instruction by a [human] member of the track and trace scheme. No?

    1. ibmalone

      Except we do actually want people to follow the instructions.

  9. ibmalone

    These warnings were generated by the underlying APIs provided by Google and Apple, and are now followed by a separate push notification that tells users to disregard them.

    Oh no it doesn't...

    I've had a couple of these so far. The separate message turns up a couple of hours before the 'Possible COVID-19 exposure' notification. I also still don't understand quite why it generates this when the other apps don't, something is missing in the 'underlying APIs' explanation.

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      In my case, it works as advertised, no idea why it doesn't for you. But yes, the underlying Goole/Apple API generates the warnings but at different trigger points to what the NHS has set, hence the sending of the relevant data to the NHS servers and response back to the phone indicating an actual exposure risk. The problem seems to be the inability of the "wrapper" app to suppress the API notices. Clearly the fix was too hard for the devs, so they changed the server app to send out a message telling us to ignore the first message.

      1. Andrew Dancy

        The problem is that the wrapper app *can't* suppress those notifications.

        In short, the NHSX devs found that the official Google/Apple API is too sensitive and triggers based on very basic criteria. They found a way to be able to fine-tune the criteria so that it only actually triggers self isolation in the app if their more sensitive criteria is triggered (side note, they are trying to get Google/Apple to either back-port their improved algorithm into a future version of the API or get them to provide more raw data with the API on bluetooth signal strength so the algorithm can be further refined and tweaked by the various national apps)

        However due to the way the API alerting is implemented it's not possible for the wrapper app to catch and suppress the original alert, only to then follow it with their own which is based on their more accurate analysis of what little information the API makes available to the wrapper app.

        As for why the report button isn't available this is a consequence of the privacy model - Google/Apple only approve national apps to use the API if the app itself has no way of collecting information on an individual. Since pressing a button to claim the grant would inevitably require being able to identify the end user (as otherwise how do you pay them the grant) the devs had to pull that feature at the last minute or risk GApple rejecting the app.

        1. ibmalone

          I assumed it was something along those lines, but I haven't heard of people getting spurious self isolation notices with stop covid NI (maybe the people I know have less exposure of course).

          They found a way to be able to fine-tune the criteria so that it only actually triggers self isolation in the app if their more sensitive criteria is triggered

          That'd be less sensitive criteria surely?

          1. Andrew Dancy

            No idea what the other apps are doing, but as you say it may be down to less opportunities for exposure.

            And yes, good spot - either 'less sensitive' or 'more specific' - take your pick!

      2. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

        "Clearly the fix was too hard for the devs..."

        If I access location services, the OS will prompt for permission. There's nothing I can do to work around that. (Apple affords me the ability to tailor the message - but that's it.) The best I can do is give you a warning.

        I haven't looked at this API. But I imagine it's similar - except with even less control. The flip side of having security and privacy guaranteed is the loss of control by the devs. Doesn't quite meet your needs? Tough. This is how GApple have said it will be.

  10. Christoph

    It's OK, they can add that button for only another £12 billion.

  11. Screwed

    Risk level

    Risk level in my neck of the woods has shot up from Low to HIGH.

    Number of cases in the county in previous 24 hours = One. Deaths = None. Cases per 100,000 = 0.8.

    It appears that being in an area impacted by restrictions (Wales) is nonsensically interpreted as changing the risk level. The restrictions could be seen as reducing risk level further!

  12. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Pint

    well-earned rest

    Baroness Harding, the Tory peer who leads the government’s much-criticised test-and-trace programme, should be removed and replaced, a senior Conservative MP has said.

    Sir Bernard Jenkin, MP for Harwich and chair of the powerful parliamentary liaison committee, called for her to be given a “well-earned rest” and moved on to focus on “lessons learned”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/25/test-and-trace-chief-dido-harding-should-quit-says-senior-tory

    --->A Beer for the Peer. (Please drink up before 2200)

    1. Danny 2

      Re: well-earned rest

      A TV news report said the significance of this is it is the first time Dido Harding has been criticised. Ha! Maybe it is the first time she has been criticised publicly by a doyen of her party, but it's widely accepted she should be sent to a farm up-state and put out to pasture.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: well-earned rest

      “--->A Beer for the Peer. (Please drink up before 2200)”

      Make that two. Replacing Baroness “One L Short” with someone vaguely competent is long overdue. The country needed leadership; these idiots had nothing but politics to give.

    3. Jonathan Richards 1
      Joke

      Re: well-earned rest

      >Please drink up before 2200

      Certainly. Not only will it have gone flat by then, it will probably have dried out in the intervening 180 years, and given rise to a tiny but perfectly formed microbial civilization along the way. Oh, right, 22:00. Got you.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Tracing apps

    Mere window dressing to calm the masses or just overpriced, under performing crap?

    Choose carefully.

  14. tonyyaman

    apple and google gave the code for the covid app but if it's the same idiots who did the first track and trace that was no good then that's why this one does not work well the government and the NHS use crap it firms to do stuff

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