back to article Microsoft tells staff work-from-home is now ‘standard’ – with caveats galore

Microsoft has decided its 150,000-plus staff can work from anywhere, anytime, most of the time. The company late last Friday outlined its new “guidance” on what its “flexible workplace” will look like even after the COVID-19 pandemic recedes enough to make returning to offices safe. The guidance comprises the following three …

  1. Khaptain Silver badge

    Commuting

    For those that are required to commute in to their workplace, will they provide compensation ?

    Personally I would gain between 1.5 and 2 hours a day if a didn't have to commute. Personally I don't like working from home but I definitely enjoy the extra time that it puts at one's disposition..

    1. Test Man

      Re: Commuting

      Did they pay "compensation" when they required staff to work in the office pre-lockdown? Nope. Then nope they won't.

      1. Chris G

        Re: Commuting

        Just wait for some boss or beancounter who wants to reduce your pay based on less travelling time because ' that was a consideration' in calculating your pay and now you are at home.

        The other thing that came up in a conversation recently, was a friend whose bosses are paranoid about staff proving that they working the hours they say rather than, I don't know, watching the Telly tubbies with the kids or something.

        How long before a boss wants video surveillance in your home work space, or a tracking anklet?

        WFH will not ultimately be any more or less of a blessing than going in to work, everything boils down to the beancounter's First law of acquisition, maximising profit.

        1. Pascal Monett Silver badge
          Mushroom

          That's funny, I always thought that my salary was what I get for doing my job, not for driving to work.

          My salary is for 8 hours a day regardless of where I'm working or how I get there.

          You want to pay me following my cost of living ? Fine. I'll be dining at the restaurant noon and evening then, with Champaign and caviar at every meal.

          Adjust my salary on that.

          1. James 139

            Trouble is, it wont be YOUR cost of living, it will be someone elses use of average costs and you living of a tin of beans a day.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              We were always told that the company placed no restrictions on where you chose to live, it was your problem if arriving at the office by 9am was an issue.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                But (presumably) you are in the UK. The US, with its literally thousands of different tax regimes is more complicated. When you work in an office in one state you pay taxes in that state. People who live in one state and work in another have a more complex tax filing, but the company doesn't really care because they pay and deduct based on where the office is.

                When you work from home you are subject to city, state, and county taxes, workers comp requirements, and other factors that related to your home location - not the single central office location.

                Having said which, I think it is mean and shortsighted of MS to not just suck up the differences and complexities (which for a company their size are minimal) and encourage people to live wherever they want.

                My company's only stipulation is that you live in the US or Canada and are within an hour of an airport.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Joke

              Obligatory Dilbert https://dilbert.com/strip/2009-02-16

              [*] And Google, when I search for that cartoon I do not want the 20,000 odd copies on P-fucking-interest but I would like the original, thank-you.

              1. O RLY

                Bing image searches are way better than Google's, especially if you don't subtract the pinterest domain from the Google search.

          2. Cynic_999

            Salary is dependent on many things, not just the output produced, but also what that output costs the employee. Which is why salaries are generally higher in London than in Cornwall. At the time of joining a company, the remuneration package is negotiated - and the cost of commute (both time & money) may well be an aspect raised in that negotiation. A good employer will try to keep their employees reasonably happy and stress-free, and I know of many cases where a salary has been increased or a "perk" added when the employee's personal situation has changed.

            The relationship between an employer and an employee is (or should be) more than that between an employer and a contractor. It's more personal. If the employer is a *good* employer, then it's not only about paying a fixed price for a certain amount of work. There's give & take as both personal and business situations change.

        2. Helcat

          Re: Commuting

          "Just wait for some boss or beancounter who wants to reduce your pay based on less travelling time because ' that was a consideration' in calculating your pay and now you are at home."

          Consider increasing my salary due to rent of workspace in *my* home. Plus utilities and equipment including desk, chair etc. Yup - they're not considering that bit, are they?

          After all, it's the Employer's responsibility to supply a suitable work environment, and equipment, including furnature.

          Of course, then they may be responsible for work space assessments, so they have to have access to your house.

          It's not as simple as people want it to be. Same for surveillance: So they can monitor you WFH. Okay, but only during work hours and only you - they can't record anyone else, so if your partner wanders past in the buff? They'd best not be recording that, had they? And if it's your kid who just had a bath and wandered into your work area? Oh dear - that's a big no-no. Yes, arguments over who is responsible etc, but they can't invade the privacy of others while monitoring you and if those others live in that house, then it's their rights being impinged upon, too.

          Yes, extremes and so forth - but it's risks that need considering and is why some businesses backed away from pushing staff to WFH in the past. Covid has pushed in the other direction but those risks are still there - as several colleagues and a few managers have already found out to their embarrassment, and those were just on video meetings.

          1. Cynic_999

            Re: Commuting

            Be VERY careful what you wish for! If you want an equivalence between your home & work and for company to rent the space, then you will also need to pay for a complete H&S inspection of your home and annual safety certificate for all your electrical appliances. And perhaps fork out for the installation of a fire door and other fire safety devices, wheelchair ramp, separate toilet facilities and a host of other hidden costs that your employer must pay for every year.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Commuting

            I worked for one of the big dot-com era tech companies and worked from home for over 15 years. While they didn't pay me rent, they did pay for office furniture, office supplies, equipment, internet, etc. And I was able to deduct a portion of home expenses (taxes, mortgage, utilities etc.) from my taxes.

            So overall it was a great deal for both sides. And I was not an anomaly, flexible work was encouraged as they could dump a lot of extra real estate expenses.

            1. Agamemnon

              Re: Commuting

              Being from SillyValley during that time, I lived in Los Gatos and was loathe to drive to Mountainview or Sunnyvale daily [I was whiny about going to the Data Center in San Jose and I could ride my bike straight up LG Creek Trail, making it tolerable].

              I worked for a NOC and was the Sr. so 25x8x366 I was on call. Had a home office, my own SUNs, and pushed my NOC to home and company paid T1 [no DSL yet], got a bonus/stipend for space and power.

              The offset was having to come in to the office at 0300 when the Fan Got Clobbered but I lived ten minutes away by car and five by bike.

              I Had to be in the office 50%, sometimes across the three shifts [team coherence and gave time with my boss and Powers That Be].

              The arrangements we Most Excellent indeed.

              The Better Half was less than amused when I assembled a small network lab in the living room once, and I paid for it, but that was the only 'incident' to speak of.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              @AC - Re: Commuting

              I notice you're using past tense.

              Nowadays companies found out they can reduce real estate expenses AND get some extra savings by reducing your salary.

          3. Man inna barrel

            Re: Commuting

            My immediate boss is all in favour of continued working from home. For his own work, he has found that he has much more useful time, due to not "commuting between two computers", as he put it. As far as engineering and software development costs are concerned, we are paid to produce results, not to work fixed hours. I quite often spread my work out through several sessions, with breaks for shopping, cooking, etc.

            As far as costs of coming into work are concerned, I think it would be quite an HR minefield to compensate workers directly for travel to work expenses. For example, what about my mate Steve the welder, who goes to work on a bike when he can? Steve cannot work from home, whereas I can. There is some potential unfairness here I think. I am pretty sure I am saving a significant amount of money by working from home, whereas those who cannot work from home are not getting that bonus. I am not sure how much of a problem this is. I have raised this with top management, as a potential cause of conflict and division within the workforce, but so far no response. They are probably too busy just keep the wheels on the wagon for now.

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Commuting

          Take this to it's logical conclusion and beancounters will offshore your job entirely when they figure out if everyone's working from home , they can take someone who's just as productive but costs 10% of what you do ...

          1. Paradroid

            Re: Commuting

            It's not about where a person works it's about their skills and approach to problem-solving that are the real value.

            1. Kabukiwookie

              Re: Commuting

              Although I 100% agree with you. Try to tell this to C-level management, who are determined to increase stockholder value (in the short term) by hollowing out the company until breaking point, then bail ship on their golden parachute and move on to the next corporation to raid and pillage.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              @Paradroid - Re: Commuting

              Yeah, yeah! I've heard that many times. Offshore personnel skills and approach to problem-solving are good enough (remember, you will be training them) and they cost way less so they bring a higher value to the organization.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            @AC - Re: Commuting

            And what's stopping them to do the same thing for those who are coming to work in the office ? Ethics ? Moral ? Labor laws ? The only purpose for a capitalist corporation is to make money and offshoring is a handy way of doing it.

            1. Cynic_999

              Re: @AC - Commuting

              "

              And what's stopping them to do the same thing for those who are coming to work in the office ?

              "

              Perhaps the fact that a daily commute to a UK office from Delhi is a tad impractical.

        4. martynhare

          Re: Commuting

          Employers can add as much tracking tech as they please, as they would have to pay for all of the infrastructure needed to run it. They would also be liable for any security breach which leaks PII, by law. You can’t outsource risk and unauthorised disclosure of video footage from someone else’s private property is the sort of thing that incur big fines. Ignoring those caveats for the employer, it all still benefits employees the most.

          Here’s why: Employees can enjoy starting at the exact second their working day begins and finishing the very second it ends. As it isn’t paid time, one can take their full lunch period in peace, undisturbed. Oh and those mandatory monitor breaks under health and safety? That’s 5-10 minutes away from the screen each hour, every hour. Overtime claims? Well, those become easy to account for and prove. They’re even easier to create openings for when people take holiday. Finally, everyone instinctively knows when an employer seems paranoid that employees begin religiously arse covering, following procedures to the letter, not just in spirit. Imagine being paid more to do less. That’s what monitoring gives you in the world of technical IT.

          Reality is that most employers want less monitoring, not more. Most managers know that they will lose more through losing access to free, uncompensated labour than what they could ever gain if everything was closely monitored. We don’t have much to worry about.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Commuting

      Working as an employee isn't just about you - it is also about the team and the companies goals, for eg having employees build each other up.

      And importantly the contract terms that agreed on expectations.

      They don't owe you any "compensation" for you to secure your workplace obligations, it's in your contract - you are free to move right next to the office if you wish to save time to meet your obligations that you signed up for. You live 2 hours from the office, and you could choose to live 5 hours away or a minute away. You knew the commute time when you took the job.

      You'd have a point if you signed up to a home working contract and then they asked you to commute to the office.

      Or you do not want to work from home, as you signed an office working contract.

      It's interesting that if the employer altered contract terms retrospectively, you'd be up in arms (and rightly so), but here if the employee wishes to alter terms retrospectively, it should be honoured??

      Double standards, me thinks.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Commuting

        Unfortunately, work from home has only exacerbated the behavior of the vocal minority of staff who are all about the penny pinching "if work wants me to do it, they should pay" attitude.

        At my company, i've lost count of the number of people who suddenly live "too far away" to pick something up or bring a broken laptop back for repair. These are the same people who managed to drag themselves in 5 days a week before.....

        The WFH hardware minefield is also becoming a major pain-point for IT. Suddenly the standard desk setup (2 monitors, dock etc...) has to be adjusted to fit users individual home environment - they want a chair, a desk, a standing desk, a different monitor, speakers instead of a headset, cable ties (and i'm not joking.....actual cable ties) and IT are suddenly being expected to interior design people's homes to get a DSE compliant setup.

        Businesses need to figure out how to allocate funds to individuals and design a business process around how and what IT will provide you at home...

        1. DavCrav

          Re: Commuting

          "Unfortunately, work from home has only exacerbated the behavior of the vocal minority of staff who are all about the penny pinching "if work wants me to do it, they should pay" attitude."

          Presumably these vocal minority of staff are in senior management? After all, penny pinching appears to be their specialist subject.

        2. Wellyboot Silver badge

          Re: Commuting

          The cost of setting up a workspace isn't much different for home or office (same general kit + sensibly a VPN box, though room for desk is a bit of an issue in homes with sprogs).

          For business the cost of getting all the kit to/from users could easily be more than offset by the reduction in city office space rental if they move to a hot desking model for the WFH crowd.

      2. Nifty Silver badge

        Re: Commuting

        Most permanent contracts have a small print clause that says if the office moves, you move with it. So, mine moved from 6 to 19 to 25 miles from home as the co closed subsidiary offices.

    3. Robert Grant

      Re: Commuting

      This isn't a problem for existing employees, because they signed up for 100% commuting. For remote roles, this could be a useful thing to establish in offer letters.

    4. steviebuk Silver badge

      Re: Commuting

      I've thought of this.

      1. Now working from home will you part pay for my broadband costs?

      2. Will you pay for my heating during the winter months during working hours?

      3. Will you pay for the electricity during working hours?

      I like my job and quite like working from home. I like the company I work for. But those questions do sit in my mind. Getting no extra pay for using all the above which means my bills each month have increased. Only benefit I get is enjoyment of working from home and being able to get up later & instantly being at home after 5. The company, however, is saving money on electricity with less of us in. I just wonder if we'll all get a little bonus at Christmas or something.

      1. Major N

        Re: Are you sure?

        I've been thinking about this and two things crossed my mind.

        1) You can claim a tax subsidy (in the UK) for your heating/electric etc for enforced WFH, its not a lot but it adds up over the year

        2) You save money on commuting costs, as well as the time. For me, the cost of commuting is greater than the additional energy consumption, so I'm in a net gain situation. For those who use human power to commute, less so.

      2. Cynic_999

        Re: Commuting

        You are also saving commuting costs - and in some cases be able to give up having a car and save that expense. I'd say that for most people the advantages of WFH more than offset the minor cost increases. You'd no doubt be paying for broadband in any case, so that's not an increased cost. You could heat just the room you are using as an office rather than the whole house. While you may be using a small amount of extra electricity for the computer and making coffee etc., you also are not buying drinks and lunches from expensive takeaway places - and cakes for everyone when it's your birthday.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

    5. Cynic_999

      Re: Commuting

      There was no compensation pre-covid, so why should there be any now? In fact, to follow that logic, the company should be compensated for all the hours saved commuting etc.

      1. The Quiet One

        Re: Commuting

        A lot of people conveniently forget the cost of a commute and get hung up on the few quid extra electric.....I was spending about £100 a week on fuel pre-lockdown. Now I'm only in the office 1 day a week i reckon i've saved £2.5k this year on fuel alone. I don't mind shelling out for a new office chair on that basis.

  2. macjules

    WFP

    Article in the news today about pubs in the UK offering a desk and WiFi with unlimited tea or coffee for a tenner per day. Thought that might be apt for MSFT, given how the words "pissup" and "brewery" always come to mind ..

    1. Chairman of the Bored

      Re: WFP

      Working from a pub with tea and coffee all day... That is absolutely brilliant. Depending on how the day goes, I suppose something flammable might be consumed as well.

      My town has a nice coffee shop with a similar sort of deal. Very cozy place to telecommute during mid-day. Sadly I've not been there since the start of COVID

    2. anonanonanonanonanon

      Re: WFP

      I found many places (before current covid situation, maybe changed) were quite happy to leave someone working in their establishments with only ordering a couple of refreshments, if only to make the place look busier.

      A bit of consideration like packing up and leaving when they start getting busy, or maybe, just start enjoying after work bevvies and places were quite happy to leave me alone.

    3. Montreal Sean

      Re: WFP

      Careful with the offers of free tea or coffee in that tenner a day...

      You have no idea how much tea can be consumed...I have a priest friend who drinks in the region of 15L a day.

      Now if you charge for toilet access, that could be a real money maker!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: WFP

        My local vicar probably necks that quantity in dry sherry every day.

      2. Cynic_999

        Re: WFP

        I heard of a native American who drank similar amounts. He was found drowned in his teepee ...

  3. FXi

    Commuting

    Some people choose a longer commute (particularly in expensive regions) in order to save some coin and deal with added annoyance. I'm in the camp of not wanting to be at home for more than 50% as there is a lot of things missing from the office experience, the knowing of what's going on from the activity around you, the hallway conversations, sometimes simply the "haven't heard anything about that" tells something. Some time at home is nice because it's that chance to close the office door and actually concentrate on a major task. But sadly at work they'd know to leave you be but remote you inevitably get the *ping* "hey I've got a question".

    Anyway the long commute often gave you a slightly more affordable rent, perhaps even at all affordable as some major cities can attest to. Now they have the opportunity to lower (remember it always is a downward "adjustment") your salary because of that choice? So we're going to enhance gentrification of regions because anyone who wants a good salary will have to make incredibly sure they live in the most expensive parts of the region they are in to assure the best salary offers. This is not a good long term thing, even if it has been going on in the form of salary premiums for certain geographic regions. But they did mention "may" adjust. Spreading wealth out geographically is good for the country as a whole. It gets economic spending dispersed without communities having to resort to only tourism economies. While I don't expect that to matter to companies, it sure would be nice if they gave those choices some thought.

  4. EnviableOne

    Whats the management guidance

    The three statements are all well and good, wheteher or not the policy actually resultsd in more flexible working, is whollly down to the manager's discretion

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Whats the management guidance

      Yes, it would be interesting to see the management guidance...

      I once worked at a company that charged individual departments for both reserved office areas and hotdesks (ie. it was separated out from the general overhead costs). It ensured that departments both maintained a minimal office footprint and didn't make excessive use of hotdesks (ie. it encourage hotdesks to be reserved for specific projects and not for general departmental usage). Interestingly, over the period of time I worked for this company, they reduced the number of offices (due to low occupancy) and increased the number of staff.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Less money for where you Live.

    That's already been done when Rail was privatised. They realised that people saved money by living in towns and villages, so decided to take their cut by raising fares. Now in the end it costs the same to live in the city or the countryside.

  6. Hollerithevo

    "The third point seems to hint that Microsoft could follow VMware in adjusting salaries to match the cost of living in whatever locale employees choose to inhabit, which in practice has meant reducing payments."

    Funny how that always works.

  7. This post has been deleted by its author

  8. Tempest

    There is More to "Work" Than Just Working

    Ignoring the fact that an employees costs rise when working outside an office, as others have discussed, there is value in being able to 'chat' about activities or incidents outside the office sphere as well as discussing work projects with people not directly involved in a given project. It's about re-inventing wheels. Just listen to talk in a lunch room. The subjects of common interest are limitless.

    If interaction between people in any area activity had no value, why are support groups and websites so popular?

    The ability to 'bounce' crazy ideas off others won't happen if communication is more formal.

    Our company has offices separated by hundreds of kilometres, along with one in Canada, and our inter-office audio/visual communications are important. Similar work areas can chat together over 'speakerphone' and when one-on-one communications are needed they, too, can be accommodated.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @Tempest - Re: There is More to "Work" Than Just Working

      Yeah, talk in the lunch room and those water cooler / coffee machine chats, they are so "productive".

      By the way, support groups and websites are definitely not organized in lunch rooms.

      1. Tempest

        Re: @Tempest - There is More to "Work" Than Just Working

        I was referring to the principle of cross-pollination or the "crowd sourcing" of ideas.

        The names support groups and websites infer they are not referring to lunch rooms.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Work location

    So if people move somewhere cheaper they get penalised, why? Does the reverse apply?

    Let's face it, if they do move to a cheaper area it's likely to be a property of comparable value but with more space, such as for a home office.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @AC - Re: Work location

      Nah, it's just that they got a new excuse to reduce your salary while looking like they're doing you a service.

  10. Tempest
    Happy

    AN INTERESTING ON THIS VERY SUBJECT

    Working From Home Is Making a Lot of People Miserable

    By ALISON GREEN

    https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/10/working-from-home-misery.html

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