If it helps...
It must be galling to the folks at NVidia that freetards are ff-ing their website to grab a $600 graphics card to sell for $3,000 on Ebay.
Why not wait until you can satisfy demand? Like the phone industry...
Geeks eager to nab Nvidia’s GeForce RTX 3090 graphics cards were left disappointed after all the stock on the tech giant's online store was snatched up almost instantly when the cards went up for sale on Thursday. The hardware is also sold out from major retailers, such as Newegg and Best Buy. Websites struggled to process …
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> Maybe because the bot users could simply place fake bids to block any auctions. In addition, the retailers would have to be denied stock, at least at first. They would not be happy.
I don't understand how that would work. e.g. say I bid £1000 on auction, then you bid £20,000 to "block the auction", the price (on ebay) will probably be £1,500 unless someone else bids it up.
If nobody else bids, but then you refuse to pay on auction end, what happens is that the offer goes to the next bidder in line, so I get it anyway for £1,000.
You have not blocked the auction from happening, nor did your £20,000 bid result in a silly high price visible on the auction page to put other people off.
Make one 20K bid with one account. And then another fake account with a 21k bid. As soon as you can when the auction starts.
And the auction is now blocked and shows as 20k. When it ends, both fake accounts just ignore mail and if anyone did bid lower then it would be offered at like £500 or whatever they bid first, hoping for a bargain. And the vendor thinks "feck that".
I assume you were being sarcastic. This has been a hellacious year to buy tech products, including CPU's, GPU's, laptops, cams, etc. I'm guessing the new consoles and AMD's Zen3 CPU's and "Big Navi" GPU's will continue the trend.
you dont even want to know about the cluster fuck that xbox all access has turned into thanks to klarna, currently have a direct debit created on my account, a credit search, but no confirmation that i have or havnt been sucessful, and the retailer i placed order with seems utterly incapable of running a help desk
Wait til Jan / Feb. Will be lots of stock then and no one will be buying as everyone will have splurged for Christmas. Best time to buy.
Anyone buying a card second hand from a scalper is an idiot and a contributor to the problem. Let them watch their cards depreciate on the shelf.
Plus AMD's latest cards will be out by then. They may or may not have something to compete with the 3090, but lower down the range they'll be applying some competition.
Oh, and by the new year more of the bugs in the drivers (and potentially games) will be fixed too.
You just haemorrhage vapid twats who followed you on some social platform, some bizarre youth cult based around paying at least list price (with added points for paying a scalp price then bitching to your 10's of followers at the outrage, and why wont brand name just send me there stuff for free) for retail items, while spewing chod over the quality of the packaging, and spouting marketing proof like its gospel, love how the "hardware" scene from hackers is still relevant, literally words come out with no understanding.
Or as bill hicks was fond of saying "its like showing a dog a card trick"
Put the price down. Sell for 10-20% mark up for the first x weeks, drop after a little while. Scalpers are now taking a risk that they will be undercut at some unknown point in the near future, so the only people paying over the odds are the "must have it now" crowd, who know what they're getting into.
Ok.. now pull the other one....
Where to start they under apprciadted demand.... Well I'm sure whenever ASUS, and Gigabyte get 'round to selling their marked up versions of the 3090, will of course be mighty greatful for that screw up.
They will do better next time... HAHAHAHA Does anyone even buy that? Why the hell would they care? It would not surprise me in the slightest if the Bots were on the insde, to snag as many Fleabay Specials as possible.
Fools and money parting like the Red Sea....
Never had sympathy for predatory scalpers, of any kind. They're just parasites on any economy.
Of course, they would exist unless there were idiots dumb enough to let their impatience rule them and pay the stupid excessive prices too. So, both sides are wrong, and one lot are idiotic.
Don't feed the scalpers and they'll eventually have no business.
Not sure what people like nvidia can or even will do to prevent it as excess demand is good for them really.
I'd like one of these cards, but maybe the delay will give me time to see if their opposition has a better deal.
I'll wait till I can have one via next day delivery. Until then screw queues and scalpers. There are more important problems in everyone's lives, this is just a nice to have really.
I'm slightly ashamed I did have some impatience about it, because really in context, this is just buying another toy. Nothing more.
Last 2 years, NV ran onto the no-competition and crypto-currency bubble.
Now, they run onto the scalpers' ride. Cool.
For everyone, like was already said, wait until mid next year to buy one as the MSRP
has become sane again, thank you AMD.
Myself, I'll be still running a newly acquired 1080ti !
1080 Ti is the gentleman's choice.
To buy one a couple of years ago before the cryptocurrency bubble inflated their prices was the winning move, as AMD still, today, don't have a card that adequately competes with it, and NVIDIA don't have anything that's worth getting (2080 Ti is horribly overpriced, 2080 is roughly 1080 Ti perf) or can be bought right now (3080).
I'd completely agree with that. And to add, even if you can get a 3080 right now you'd obviously get extra performance over a 1080ti, but you also consume significantly more wattage. TDP is up from 250W to >320W.
Unless you're using a 4K display, using high end VR, or you specifically need the RT or Tensor capabilities beyond gaming, I recommend sticking with the trusty Pascal cards for a while longer yet.
..they should manufacture 20x as many cards as they expect legitimate buyers to want, and then put most of them on sale on launch day at twice the price they are intending to sell them at.
A week later, put the rest of the cards on sale at the "real" price. Anyone who bought one at the "full" price gets a refund on the first card they bought.
Result: scalpers and bots are stuck with a load of cards they paid over the odds for, that they can only shift at a loss. This hits the "get rich quick" scumbags hard.
Sane buyers won't have tried to get hold of the things on launch day anyway. The few who were "lucky" enough to get in before the bots get their money back. Everyone is happy, except of course, for the people who deserve to be unhappy.
The best thing Nvidia can do now is just keep drip feeding the stock into the supply chain slowly. If people see more cards becoming available over an extended period then they are less likely to pay the scalpers inflated prices and wait. Sooner or later the scalpers are going to run out of purchasing power and need to sell something.
They should also be limiting the number of cards going to any address/email too.
The way I see it, if I have 1000 units in stock and expect another 1000 in a month, the best way to sell is gradually release them to the market over the month. If I sell the whole lot in the first 24 hours customers are going to be desperate after not seeing any stock released for the rest of the month that they may pay over the price to scalpers. But if they know more are coming available all the time they are more likely to wait.
If scalpers were not emptying shinyshinytards wallets, then the people with the least self discipline would have money spare to mess another part of the economy up, or worse, help fund something utterly diabolical. No, the fact a fool and his money can be so easily parted is a good thing, as fools with money can be the most dangerous creatures on two legs.
To be fair, it has got to the point where the frame rates these things will pump out far exceed the capacity of most monitors. I don't know about you, but the two QHD monitors I'm using have a 60Hz refresh rate (they have HDMI inputs, so it's a hard limit). Sure, you can buy 120Hz monitors, but guess what? That's about 5x the refresh rate that the human eye can actually detect.
The (admittedly quite expensive) graphics card I bought earlier in the year for £320 or so was a replacement on a 4-5 year cycle. It will quite happily produce that resolution at 60Hz for any games I care to play, even with 2x supersampling turned on (which works out at the equivalent number of pixels as 2 4K monitors). I suspect that if I had a monitor capable of it, it would churn out 120 FPS. There's no way on Earth I need that capability, and it's largely an insurance against the future, if games get a lot more graphically demanding. So the obvious question is - if a not-quite-top-of-the-range graphics card from 2019 will produce effectively the same output as a top-of-the-range one from 2020, for any practical gaming needs, who are these things aimed at?
I laugh out loud when watching TV at 25fps. All the actors appear to move like robots and the scenery blowing in the breeze looks like it was live animated by a recovering alcoholic.
Thank God we have 120fps now. I hope they can use some kind of AI to remaster some of the old classic films...hahaha.
Yeah, I'm joking. But why can we watch TV at 25fps and not perceive anything like what we do when viewing a game at 25fps?
Short answer - very different technologies and issues.
Longer answer: the frames have motion blurring, to make motion appear smoother.
Long answer: research the question on a search engine of your choice - monitors displaying a computer video image are very different to film/TV images displayed on a projection screen or TV, and how the human eyes perceived motion is affected by a lot of things including ambient light levels and the overall brightness and specific colours in the images. Our eyeballs do not have a "FPS" limit, and neither do our brains.
Although I suppose maybe some people don't notice the difference, but I suffer from noticing motion judder on almost every camera pan, especially is there's moving text.
There's not many games I can think of that feature fast pans across text / fast moving text. I can't imagine they would be either fun or easy to play.
The most common use cases for these high-end graphics cards will be either playing FPS games (first-person shooters for those not au fait with the lingo) at high frame rates, or for rendering. Rendering I can appreciate that you want as much grunt as possible. If you're playing a FPS, panning around wildly and paying attention to how smooth that panning is, I can safely assume your K/D ratio will be very poor. In other words, if you're actually engaged in playing the game, you're unlikely to even notice the quality of the textures, let alone the frame rate. It might make a difference if you're streaming it, but then again, the number of people who want to be youtube stars vs the number who actually make money from it is a very poor ratio...
Why one should worry about scalpers buying graphic cards? It's isn't like they are hospital beds. Let them buy - and do this (as already pointed out)
1) Start selling a little above intended price. Let's sat 20%.
2) In about 2 or 3 weeks, drop the prices to the expected selling price.
3) Let the scalpers inflate their stock to high havens - having bought it at 20% mark on launch.
4) Set the production at full throttle: spew as many GPUs as possible, in the least amount of time. That will take care of market anxiety and will brake the scalpers business, as the price will drop fast, and they will have to sell at a loss.
Is it perfect? No, it isn't.
Will people complain? Of course they will. People get the lottery ticket and complain about paying taxes.
Will the scalpers go away? No, they won't. But I think this will help to keep them at a minimum.
Don't I care about the early buyers, that have to pay the scalpers? No, I don't. One doesn't HAVE to pay the scalpers. Just sit and wait. Otherwise, pay the price.
The GPU market seems to attract the same levels of fanboy-ism that consoles do. I'm in the market for a new GPU to replace my ageing 960 GTX. I'll wait to see what AMD bring out but I'm edging towards a 3080 at the moment. However, I'll be purchasing next year so stock and pricing settle down.
I'll look forward to AMD and Nvidia fanboys having screaming rows about things like CUDA Cores in comments on news articles when neither person clearly has the first idea what they're actually arguing about.
Yes, for many people it's nice to have the new shiney immediately it becomes available, but it's hardly a huge hardship to wait a month or three. The scalpers are making money from the impatient idiots with more money than sense. If people were sensible, they would wait until manufacturing catches up with demand, at which point the prices will probably have reduced - and the scalpers will be stuck with product that they can only sell for less than they paid for it.
But if the idiots are willing to pay the inflated prices, that's just capitalism at work. A few people make money, and others lose only what they have voluntarily and unnecessarily chosen to lose. If the product was never going to be available again, or was a necessity, I'd have a different view. But it's a graphic card, not a once-in-a-lifetime concert or life-saving medicine.
The 3090 is a pup - ludicrously over priced but only 8-10% faster in actual gaming benchmarks than the (very capable) 3080. All that video memory and nothing to use it for, as practically nobody is legitimately gaming at 8k any time soon - and those few that are even running PC games at 4k@60hz (rather than generally more useful 1440p@144hz) will be very well served by a "basic" 3080 - especially on titles with DLSS 2.1 turned on.
Combined with the fact that the drivers are intentionally hamstrung (SRV-IO disabled etc), artificially crippling performance in many of the high end productivity use cases that could benefit from 24GB of fast VRAM, I fail to see who the market is for these cards. It's got to be very niche, and/or full of morons.
Paying over the odds for any of these cards is a mugs game. Supply will catch up with demand in relatively short order - and there are some ludicrous deals to be had on cut price NOS or gently used 2080ti's right now if you're really desperate for something - as they were never cost effective for Crypto mining (unlike the flood of run-ragged 1080ti's that hit the market a while back).
Couple that with AMD chucking out something later in October that might compete or at least put pressure on the midrange market, and you'd have to be mental to throw more than RRP at a 30xx card right now.
It is quite obvious that people care about this stuff, and if I was younger, I would too. As far as I'm concerned, nVidia can take they GPUs and stick up their ass. I've been burned too many times by them with failed hardware just outside the 1 year warranty period. You won't see me standing in line for one because even at $1499, they are still a piece of shit. So nVidia, eat this *drops nuke*. So far, I have had really good luck with ATI (AMD) cards.
Kepler isn't as good as Pascal but it does work.
One big advantage with older cards: they are cheap.
Other advantage: easier to repair when/if they do break because the solder balls are held on with
iron containing pads allowing clever tricks like induction based reflow while monitoring parameters.
I "invented" this technique after trying oven reflow and a hand held gadget could feasibly be used
from the card back without even removing anything but the HSF assembly.
Building induction module into an E cig casing is possible and these are plentiful these days.
Writing up for Hackaday now!!