back to article Adidas now stands for All Day I'm Disconnecting All Servers as owners of 'smart' Libra scales furious over bricked kit

In 2015, German sportswear manufacturer Adidas acquired a plucky Austrian IoT startup called Runtastic, which, among other things, manufactured a $129.99 "smart" scale called Libra. Now that product is being discontinued, preventing owners from synchronising their data or even downloading the app required to use it. In a post …

  1. The Central Scrutinizer

    I just constantly piss myself laughing....

    when I read these stories of the Internet of Shit devices.

    1. chivo243 Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: I just constantly piss myself laughing....

      I keep asking why any sane person would invest in these Obsolescencewarez

      1. Greybearded old scrote Silver badge

        Re: I just constantly piss myself laughing....

        Mostly because they don't know until they get bit. Why some of my workmates in the tech industry are so keen is another matter.

        1. Sok Puppette

          Re: I just constantly piss myself laughing....

          Because your workmates in the tech industry personally benefit from the swindle?

      2. big_D Silver badge

        Re: I just constantly piss myself laughing....

        Exactly. Although in some areas it is getting hard not to get such a device.

        We bought a good quality TV 2 years ago. After 18 months the "smart" side of the TV stopped getting updates, but I knew that would happen and didn't use the "smart" side. I use a cheap FireTV stick for the smarts. That is still a waste, when it stops getting support after a few years, but better than having to replace the whole 1,000€+ TV every couple of years!

        My daughter had a similar experience. She bought a Sony Bravia 4K TV with "smarts". The apps stopped working after 6 months, because Sony had removed support, 6 months!?!? They did the same, plugged a FireTV into it and it now "just works".

        I wouldn't buy a smartTV again, well, I probably will, as there isn't much choice, but it will probably just be used as a dumb TV and I'll plug in cheap smarts.

        It was a similar story, when we were looking for a dishwasher. All the high end, energy efficient models seems to be smart devices. I don't want to be able to switch it on, when I am not at home, I still have to load and unload it manually, so that is a waste of time and I don't need to know when to buy new salt and tabs, I can see that by looking in the cupboard next to the machine... A total waste of time and energy. In the end, we managed to get a decent Miele without any smarts.

        I refuse to buy anything normal appliance that is "smart". The appliances are supposed to last for 10 years or more and the smarts will probably stop working after 2 - 3 years, if you are lucky. I'll buy high quality dumb devices and add cheap smarts, where it makes sense.

        I bought a new toothbrush recently. The top model cost 100€ more than the normal one and had BlueTooth and an app! For a toothbrush? Sorry, waste of time and money, for what, for my smartphone to beep when I finish doing one side of my mouth? The 100€ cheaper one vibrates when I need to change sides and I don't need to have my smartphone anywhere near-by.

        1. Lee D Silver badge

          Re: I just constantly piss myself laughing....

          I have never owned a smart TV. I've never owned any home automation kit (Echo, Nest, etc.). I've never owned a smart appliance.

          I work in IT, the very last thing I want to do when I get home is diagnose the wireless fridge trying to connect out to the Internet.

          As you say, it's *unnecessary*. If people want that, fine, sell a "smart module" that plugs into a dumb appliance. That way not only can people get what they want, you don't have to manufacture two appliances, people can buy upgrades, and people can repair/replace just the bit that's broken. But I don't need wifi to turn on my dishwasher.

          I bought a robot vacuum recently. For £10 extra I could have got the version with wifi and an app. I didn't. The £10 cheaper version had no such junk in it, and yet has an infrared remote control, inside which is a timer. So you just point the remote control and/or set the timer. And it wakes up at the allotted time, hoovers the house, and then finds its charging port and goes back to sleep.

          To be honest, I've only ever used the timer once by accident (I must have pressed the button to enable it as the little icon was lit when it's never been before). I don't want something running around my house eating cables when I'm not there. Sure, 99% of the time it'll be fine, and the other 1% of the time it'll chew through a power cable and start a fire, or pull something expensive off the table because it tugged on a lamp cord.

          I'm not at all sure I want some cheap Chinese manufacturer having an app on my phone and my wifi details, either. And I don't have to worry about my vacuum getting hacked.

          I'm not tech-avoidant. I just use the appropriate, proportional tech in the appropriate places to facilitate an easier life. A dishwasher is amazing value for money... in terms of hours-of-washing-up-avoided, it pays for itself in a month. A smart dishwasher that I have to join to the wifi, maintain the signal, press buttons on to clear the warnings, tell it to sod off trying to order replacements or consumables I already have, update every month, etc. isn't.

          Instead of a TV I buy "monitors". Exactly identical tech, without the gumph. In fact, I tend to buy a projector - far larger image, no smarts at all. But then I have a 17" laptop and on the side of my sofa it does a far better job than even a huge TV the other side of the room, with an amazing image.

          What I want from a TV nowadays is not TV at all. I want a display device that displays what I tell it. And then I'll have other things that tell it what to display. What I want from a dishwasher is to wash my dishes when I tell it. What I want a robot vacuum to do is to vacuum when / where I want it to. None of that necessitates wifi, apps and Internet connectivity. (Though my vacuum remote has basically controls, so he becomes almost a game of steering him into awkward corners and then seeing if he can find his way home... he's not "intelligent" by any means, he can't map the room or anything, he just has IR LEDs on himself and the base station and with that alone he manages to home into the base station three rooms away! Very clever programming).

          The kit is out there, you just have to look for it. And when the world starts to require everything online, it'll be someone else's problem to deal with, and I will be able to do my old-person's "I don't understand, just make it work" thing that everyone currently does to me.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Devil

      Re: I just constantly piss myself laughing....

      Just get an Internet of Piss catheter.

  2. Greybearded old scrote Silver badge
    Joke

    "Lifetime subscription" from Revolv

    At least they didn't take that too literally. When the subscription ends...

    1. Korev Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: "Lifetime subscription" from Revolv

      That joke was off the scale...

      1. Korev Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: "Lifetime subscription" from Revolv

        I hope it didn't weigh you down too much...

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    For any product "lifetime" always means the lifetime of the product, which is decided by the manufacturer/seller.

    1. Kubla Cant

      This bag-for-life has fallen apart. Can I have another?

      No. It's the bag's life, not yours.

    2. Bill Stewart

      "My lifetime, not yours"

      My father-in-law once had a lifetime subscription to a financial newsletter whose author was very explicit that it was for his lifetime, not yours. Eventually the author got cured of whatever cancer he had, so his lifetime was suddenly looking like it would be much longer than he'd anticipated, but he did keep writing it for a while after that.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I usually avoid these products like the plague preferring to diy it with a raspberry pi should the need occur. The only thing I do own is a fitbit and that's because I don't like the look of the cheap trackers out there. There should be consumer protections for this type of thing with an option that if the company goes under then the software is open sourced or it's moved to a serverless configuration.

    1. My other car WAS an IAV Stryker

      Imagine if a tech company actually put routines in the software/firmware for when said company is no longer around and the servers are non-responsive. Planning for your own demise, if you will.

      People do this all the time -- it's called "life insurance", "estate planning", "medical directives" and whatnot.

      1. The commentard formerly known as Mister_C

        Re: Imagine if a tech company actually put routines in the software/firmware

        Do you mean like this:

        https://www.theregister.com/2020/09/21/who_me/

        or this:

        https://www.theregister.com/2020/09/21/netgear_mandatory_registration_switches/

    2. katrinab Silver badge
      Alert

      Fitbit is soonto become part of Google. Their track record for extended support is not very good.

      1. Dante Alighieri
        Boffin

        Alphabet Corvids

        Sit 26 in a row, label them in sequence, then pick No. 19

        That's the solution.

        Shotgun to code [typo?] more likely

      2. TVU Silver badge

        "Fitbit is soonto become part of Google. Their track record for extended support is not very good"

        Indeed, how long is it before Fitbit is itself fully deprecated? The countdown has already started...

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Functionality

    "Adidas announced the discontinuation of key functionality from the Libra smart scale."

    Just tell the consumers to leave their Libra scale connected to the internet.

    The folks behind Mirai will be along soon enough to add functionality to the device they've never even heard of.

  6. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

    The people who fund these companies never learn

    the revenue obtained from one-time purchases of its equipment proved insufficient to support long-term maintenance.

    And does this really come as a surprise to anyone? About the only way it could work would be if it were a pyramid scheme, with ever-increasing numbers of purchasers funding the support for previous users.

    1. Julz

      Hum

      Buy this shinny 'smart' thing for £X and if you persuade ten of your friends to do the same you can become a super elite member of the smart thing club and be eligible to 10% of the profit generated by your friends sales.

      It might actually work, if by work you mean fleecing the ignorant of their money.

  7. alain williams Silver badge

    At point of sale ...

    by law all devices that depend on some server, that the purchaser does not control, should have PROMINENTLY marked that this is so AND the earliest date at which the server might be withdrawn.

    1. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge

      Re: At point of sale ...

      Nice idea but it won't work, unless that law also binds the suppliers to legally continue to provide the service, even when acquired by another biz, with severe criminal penalties on the executive, board and directors of said supplier (and any future owners).

      Without strong penalties, suppliers will always come up with all manner of perfectly plausible reasons why the service must be terminated early.

      1. the spectacularly refined chap

        Re: At point of sale ...

        There's no need to be quite so dramatic, it can be a simple matter of contract. If you buy the company you buy the obligations, this is how it works for everything.

        1. vogon00

          Re: At point of sale ...

          >"buy the obligations"

          You always do...however the 'obligation' only exists for as long as it is beneficial for the vendor, unless enshrined in the contract between you (purchaser) and them (vendor) - which it never is! Companies generally live up to their 'obligations' for as short a time as they can get away with it, especially as fulfilling these obligations always has a cost, sometimes huge.

          This shituation is probably down to their marketing/biz dev people not being willing or able to bring in enough dosh to fund the ongoing support, especially if they grow fast. Either that, or their assessment of the long-term viability was utter bollocks (i.e. "Ok, it'll last 6 months... after that, F them all).

          Honouring your obligations requires honour - which is the first casualty for any finance department, or C-Suite looking at the costs.

          I *really* like honour, but there's very little money in it (Something that G.O.T. figured out!)

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: At point of sale ...

          And then all that happens is companies go down the double glazing company route. Flog stuff, bankruptcy, new company with same directors, offices, etc, rinse and repeat.

  8. mark l 2 Silver badge

    The same thing happened to the Jawbone fitness trackers, they still work if you have the original app on your phone from before the backend servers were closed down, but if you ever logout of the app, change phones or buy one new then you can't even create a new account anymore to use the app.

    FYI there are still several of these being sold on ebay, flea markets etc for the unwary shoppers as 'fitness trackers' but in essence you a just buying a wrist band with some obsolete tech inside.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    That's why I try and avoid tech that relies on the cloud, trouble is a lot of stuff doesn't make it clear there is a cloud component. Most such services are 'free' to use which I can't see as a business model as you have a growing data set to maintain for your 'customers' but at some point you stop selling them devices or upgrades and run out of money.

    I currently have the Tado heating system, I'd be much happier if I could write my own system to control it or participate in an open source version. If they ever stop supporting it, it will no doubt need ripping out. Could fix some of the issues with it too. Perhaps that is the plan, force you to replace it every x years.

  10. DS999 Silver badge

    This is going to become a bigger and bigger problem

    The average consumer is completely unaware something like this might happen, and could render their expensive internet connected fridge, TV, doorbell, etc. without the extra "smart" functionality they thought they were paying for, or in the worst case without any functionality at all.

    I can't imagine there won't be some laws written before long to address this. Presumably in Europe, since they care about consumers at least a little. Unlike the US where any whiny owners will be told "buyer beware" and we should put our full trust in the free market to magically solve this problem for us.

  11. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

    Apple and Adobe as well

    Adobe subscription services has been down for more than 3 hours.

    Subscription service is down. Try refreshing the browser or go to status.adobe.com and submit the request again.

    Apple is having intermittent outages on some services.

    Perhaps it is catching?

  12. HellDeskJockey

    If it relies on the cloud

    It's not reliable. You have to be able to control it locally. Also if you want reliable kit buy from companies that have been in business at least 5 years or that follow standards such as ZWave or others. Lot's of companies come up with a home control product and think it will be amazing. Only to find out that people are not interested in buying it. It then get's dumped. Leaving owners out of luck.

    1. Richard Jones 1

      Re: If it relies on the cloud

      If it relies on the cloud, you will be rained on and service will be washed away.

      If you do not own it you do not control it, do not rely on it, ever.

      My home heating has a temperature controller thin, (thermostat to me) plus room controller things that date back to the last century. No issues at all and no clouds in sight.

      1. HellDeskJockey

        Re: If it relies on the cloud

        Agreed while I am connected to the cloud and enjoy the features. I can also unplug the net and still control things. Also I use a company that has been doing this for decades and has protocol information available. Even so it's always a risk, you just have to plan for and manage it.

  13. earl grey
    Terminator

    i don't even like watches with batteries

    I'll take the 14 week old custard in the back yard before i touch these,

  14. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "The problem with most IoT products isn't necessarily that they rely on back-end servers to run. It's that, for the most part, it's impossible to perceive the trajectory of a given company."

    It's possible to make a reasonable estimate:

    Does the operation of the server rely on continuing subscriptions?

    If so then if the subscription operation is profitable it's likely to continue.

    If not does it rely on the user as product?

    If so then is that profitable? There are relatively few businesses that have succeeded. Even the past master at that model, Google, has a habit of discontinuing services. If it isn't profitable expect it to be shut down.

    If it doesn't rely on a subscription or on user as product does it have some other income model?

    If so, examine it carefully for credibility.

    If not does it rely on burning through investors' money to run it?

    If so expect it to be shut down once that's all burned.

    If not it's dependent on sales of devices to keep it going. Once those fall off expect it to be shut down.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The Cloud

    For an IT based website it’s somewhat surprising that there really is a complete lack of understanding of what “The Cloud” is.

    1. Dante Alighieri
      Joke

      Black Hat

      If I may elucidate, obliged as ever

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: The Cloud

      Yeah, "The Cloud" - your data on somebody else's computer, connected via another company's cabling!

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why do smart scales need a cloud server in Singapore to be functional? Can't they just connect via bluetooth and spurt your weight to an app that logs it, every time you step on? Why does a 'cloud' service need to intermediate?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Or just write your weight down in a notepad that you keep next to the scales?

  17. A Nother Handle
    Paris Hilton

    A genuine question

    What did the app do? I'm struggling to think of any functionality it could possibly add to the experience of standing on some bathroom scales.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A genuine question

      As a guess, produce some nice graphs so you can see the changes in your weight over time?

    2. James Wilson

      Re: A genuine question

      Edit your online shopping list? "Alexa, take pies and cake off the Tesco order."

  18. RM Myers
    FAIL

    "The problem with most IoT products isn't necessarily that they rely on back-end servers to run"

    That's why I read El Reg - the jokes just keep on coming. Wait, what did you say? It wasn't a joke? Come on, no one is going to believe that! Really? Oh my.

    And yes, the problem is exactly that they rely on back-end servers, which you have no control over.

  19. John Savard

    Alternative

    While I can't fault Adidas for not wanting to support the Libra scales with their own servers forever, they should have offered their customers an alternative: updated the scales to talk to their owners' own computers, with a downloadable program for local synchronization. This wouldn't help Libra owners who don't have a computer (or maybe even just a smartphone) but it would have made things right for most of them.

  20. Dante Alighieri
    Big Brother

    Roll your own

    Apart from an excellent Jethro Tull track,

    genuine question from a hobbyist* : is it too late to sniff traffic and reverse engineer protocol to allow an on premises re-direct of traffic to believe it is seeing the shyster server?

    Is it time to do this for other IoT / smart tellies etc (PiHole recognised)

    I've flirted with automation stuff as a concept for around 5mS (which as Commander Data pointed out is an incredibly long time) but unless I can run it on an open home automation server I control it is all someone else's property.

    *I am a professional in a related area which absolutely relies on IT, as some will have worked out from my prior postings

  21. steviebuk Silver badge

    Chrome books just as bad

    At a place I was at, some idiot was touting the idea of replacing all laptops with Chromebooks. Ignoring the fact you can't install custom software on them, ignoring you can't install legacy software on them and the final part (which I only found out recently) Chromebooks have a expire date stamped on them with the date Google will stop updating the software on it.

    Fuck that. It was a dumb idea thats just gotten worse.

    I can't stand IoT stuff because of issues like this but when you have people that flatly refuse to listen to this argument (the other half) you can see why comes still sell this shit to people that they know they won't support for long.

  22. fpx
    Megaphone

    Product Labels

    I remember reading about proposals that "smart" devices should get mandatory labels indicating their support period. I.e., companies would have to clearly specify something like 5 or 10 or 20 years on the package, and then commit to supporting the product for this period, retaining functionality, compatibility with future devices (such as the next generation of smartphones) and with security updates if applicable. Without a sticker, you would only have your bog standard two year warranty period to rely on.

    We would need the same for software, though. There is plenty of software that refuses to re-install or even run when the licensing servers are switched off.

    This wouldn't do you any good if the company goes bankrupt. Still, it would be an improvement on today's sorry state of affairs.

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