Vinyl sales top CDs for the first time in decades in America, streaming rules Vinyl records accounted for 62 percent of revenue derived from physical music sales across America in the first half of 2020 – the first time they’ve beaten compact disks in decades, apparently. Data released last week by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) reported $376m of revenue for music as “physical …
Stop copying our music to cassette. We will sell you cassettes at a higher cost than records and you will love that they sound worse than AM radio. Don't copy your records to high quality cassettes, that is piracy! FBI FBI FBI $100,000 fine and 10 years in jail.
Vinyl is nice in a science class though, lots of fun physics.
It looks like the VHS recording of that Memorex advert was probably not on Scotch VHS tape.
But you could play a cassette in the car which explains my box of cassettes in the cupboard, I still pull a few out and play them at home because some of the artists never went on to CD's. I love listening to a wide range of records and cassettes (Cream, Phranc, Prince, Simpsons etc) because all of the music is in a fixed order, an album - it sounds so much better then random songs.
The 8 track (Lear Jet Audio) had high tape wear , no FF and no rewind because it was a an always slipping endless loop. Though 1/4" rather than 1/8" CC and twice the speed, it wasn't better quality than decent CC using home recorded tapes because of high speed duplication and the track width may have been slightly less than CC as the head is physically moved each time the metal foil is detected. Home recording gear did exist. Also the program had to be split in four.
Experimental wire recording existed maybe 1899. US and UK used Wire Recording till after WWII. The Germans started tape use in the 1940s. Ampex was one of the first post WWII copies.
1: RCA 1/4" tape cartridge 1958
2: Compact Cassette 1962. Originally for dictation.
3: Lear Jet 8 Track 1/4" endless loop demos in 1964. A refinement of earlier loop cartridges. Also called Stereo 8. Only widespread ever in USA and because of a deal with a car maker. Some small sales in UK 1968 to 1970, approximately. A dead format.
Radio studios/DJs used an endless loop cartridge that seems to have predated the consumer 8 track
4: Micro Cassette 1969. At half the speed of Compact Cassette and usually mono (someone mad MIGHT have done a stereo version) it was only ever for dictation. Now dead due to Flash memory.
5: Sony Elcaset 1976 1/4" tape, superior design to CC and RCA cartridge. Technically good, but too large for portable market (there was one portable that looks like a competitor to Uher or other reel to reel portable recorders used by journalists.) About 10 years too late, so a failure. Dead format.
6: CD. About 1982 to 1984 introduction. Still best solution for physical music
7: Sony Minidisc. A great idea killed by DRM, inability to copy off your own recordings digitally (journalists etc) 1992. Now a dead format. Also Sony was too late adopting MP3 as alternative to ATRAC.
7: MP3 Players using Flash, battery backed RAM or HDD: Available solid state and HDD from 1997, though prototypes using other codecs may have existed from 1982. MP3 as a codec only existed from 1984.
SACD / DVD Audio / HDCD Audio etc: Variously 1995 to 1999 introductions. All dead. Aimed at Audiophiles, a fickle market.
8: iPod. A very late MP3 entrant (2001) successful due to iTunes.
There was also a very large stereo / two track version of the Lear Jet cartridge also using 1/4" tape that was only rented to restaurants and hotels. Certainly in use in 1970s.
Cassette players and tapes are still made and sold.
You are wrong about the 8-track cartridge, or maybe remembering something else. It had FF and rewind, and a button to change which of the 4 stereo tracks you wanted to hear. My dad's car came with it new in 1973 and it existed in the UK for years after that. And you say it is a dead format? Try https://8trackheaven.com/
8-track only had FF, never rewind: you can't rewind an endless loop where the tape is levered off the center of the spool and wound back on the outside of the reel
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=8+track+player&t=fpas&iax=images&ia=images
What some models did have is Repeat, where the player would ignore the silver track change tape at the end joint of the tape loop and simply continue to play on the same track; or Continuous where the player would indeed follow the track change caused by the silver tape but not stop after making 3 track changes (that is, it would restart "Track 1" (or whatever track you started play at) instead of stopping after playing all the songs on all the tracks sequentially).
Yes, you're right about no rewind. I was thinking of the cassette adapter that we had for the 8-track. A chunky thing that I think was mono, or just very, very bad stereo. It had a tendency to make a gargling sound, and then spool chewed tape onto the floor every couple of weeks. Those truly were the halcyon days of Hi-Fi.
There was stereo 8 track. It used two tracks in tandem. There was also a quadrophonic version as well, believe it or not. I used to have a player, along with some obscure stuff from the 70s (sounded like a cross between Abba and Queen, only not as good as either) recorded with four channels, but the player died and I never managed to locate another.
You are wrong about the 8-track cartridge, or maybe remembering something else. It had FF and rewind, and a button to change which of the 4 stereo tracks you wanted to hear.
You are 2/3rds right. FF and the track change button existed; there as no capability to rewind. That's because (as stated earlier in this thread) tape was pulled off of the hub to be played, and then deposited on the outside of the continuous loop after passing the heads. There was no way to get the tape to stuff itself back onto the hub1
1Well, at least not safely. Certain kinds of malfunctions would attempt to do that from time to time, resulting what was referred to in the industry as a "birds nest", also stretched tape and occasional broken loops. Nasty.
"SACD / DVD Audio / HDCD Audio etc: Variously 1995 to 1999 introductions. All dead."
https://www.marantz.com/en-gb/shop/sacdcdplayer/sacd30n . £2699
https://www.whathifi.com/marantz/sa-10/review £5999
https://www.whathifi.com/chord/blu-mkii/review £6395
http://www.metronome.audio/index.php/en/metronome-range/gamme-classica-gb (Basically how much do you want to spend?)
Motorola was so named because they brought out a record player for cars, before WWII!
This proves that some trends are only fashion driven. There is no point at all to Vinyl over CD.
"RIAA historical data suggests 1986 was the last time vinyl revenue topped CDs, however that year was early in the life of the CD as a format and a time when the Sony Walkman and its clones were still cool. 1986 therefore saw cassettes account for 55.9 per cent of sales."
CD came out in force about 1985, though they existed earlier, demoed in 1982.
While cassettes are totally inferior in quality to Vinyl, they do have some advantages over CD and other formats. However the CC resurgence is also fashion driven, and nostalgia.
Ironically the really cheap or early cassette players have survived but the belts in the high-end ones turn to goo.
Easier to get steel needles for old windups and Stylii for 1950s to 1990s record players than some of the new ones sold. Most of which claim to do 78, but none have the fatter stylus needed for the wider grooves. A microgroove stylus thus picks up noise from the bottom of the groove, I doubt any use the briefly lived dual profile stylus for both.
It isn't surprising. Streaming/Audio files are fantastically convenient and eminently portable. CDs (except as a purchase/hard backup medium) are en par with vinyl, although with a little more durability and convenience. Vinyl is a 'lifestyle' choice in the main (I have to confess I still listen regularly and enjoy my vinyl on a Rega turntable (no directional cables foto the pre-amp though) and enjoy the experience -including raising my arse off the sofa to turn the record over). My eldest son (who only saw vinyl as a child and was encouraged not to play with Dad's collection and rather use the CDs and then the ripped versions), has acquired a turntable and enjoys it - as much retro novelty as anything else (although being a tad younger will have a rather better audio range than myself).
Besides, you need some sacrificial vinyl for the coming zombie apocalypse.
"Besides, you need some sacrificial vinyl for the coming zombie apocalypse."
My family and friends have been donating their vinyl to me as they know I collect it. I nod, say thank you, but it is pretty much all fit for the zombie apocalypse pile, either through duplication (5 copies of Carol King's Tapestry), or because I really don't need another recording of German beer drinking songs from the 1970s.
My family and friends have been donating their vinyl to me as they know I collect it. I nod, say thank you, but it is pretty much all fit for the zombie apocalypse pile, either through duplication (5 copies of Carol King's Tapestry), or because I really don't need another recording of German beer drinking songs from the 1970s.
Some 30 or so years back, when we frequented the local used/collectable record stores, we had thought of making a modified skeet/clay pidgeon launcher to throw 12" vinyl records. Save money on the clay targets, you have something bigger to shoot at, all the while disposing of the excess crap. (I used to use Readers Digest box sets as end-spacers in my record rack to keep the GOOD records from bending).
When I first saw CDs, including the 'plays even with jam on top' demo on Tomorrow's World, I was astonished. They were magic, and I really thought they'd be around forever. How could anyone improve on the space-age silver disc - great sound quality (sometimes), easy to store, play them anywhere. And when streaming started to be a thing, I was pretty certain that no-one in their right mind would rely on it - far better to own the physical media. Seriously, when would broadband ever be fast enough to support it? No-one would rent something as special as music.
Ah well.
I know what all this sounds like, but I don't actually work for Gartner.
Some of my early CDs from the last 90s and early 2000s have already oxidised their Aluminium layer (visible blackness from the outer rim) and when I tried to re-rip them recently to FLAC/ALAC using dBPoweramp, failed on the later tracks that are arranged on the outer parts of the disc. These discs were always kept pristine in their cases in a centrally heated place, so no obvious causes for physical deterioration apart from the lacquer failed to keep atmospheric oxygen out.
So CDs don't last forever, and ripping them to a hard drive (and cloud upload or multiple backups) is the only way to keep them going. At least USB DACs that sound fantastic (and better than any Marantz CD player I had) and have dropped in price.
Some of the earliest CD's were made by Nimbus, and I recall that they had production problems in the early years due to the use of Welsh mountain water. The layer didn't oxidise, but microscopic algae managed to grow and form blotches under the surface.
The error correction in early CD players was also much better than later units. I had a Philips top-loader from 1984 (A pre-production unit) and it could handle a 1/8" piece of masking tape being stuck radially onto the playing surface with no audible effect, but there was a little LED that used to blink whenever the error correction was being utilised. No other player I've had could manage that.
TDK red 90s for me, changing to blues once I got a job and could afford them and a decent deck to play them through. I binned about 200 of them when I went over to iPod and I regret it today. I remember my favourites clearly and when I went on holiday last year I recreated half a dozen of them in playlists - i.e. a playlist with only two albums on it plus the filler tracks I put in to use up the tape - which even now I still expect to come on when some albums end.
The main reason I still buy CDs is just so I can rip them to FLAC on my NAS drive - after that they just sit on an ever-increasing pile waiting to be listed on eBay.
Personally speaking I like to own my own music and not be at the mercy of whatever licensing deal your streamer of choice has with the various record companies.
Yes I know I can buy FLACs of albums online, which I'd rather do and cut out the ripping process, yet for some reason it's still cheaper to buy them as CD! No, I don't understand why either.
No, it's not. If you buy a CD and rip it to a hard disk, then you legally have to retain the original disc in order to preserve the (copy) right to listen to that music. Or at least that's how it was for a few brief years in the UK. It's now technically illigal to rip your own music - something to do with the music iindustry wanting to charge a levy on blank media.
As a rule, I buy second-hand CDs, rip them to flac, and simply file them away in boxes. Morally I think I'm in the right, even if the law disagrees,
No, ripping to FLAC, then selling the original media is breach of copyright.
Either deleting the FLAC before selling or keeping/destroying the original means the artist is paid for the number of copies in circulation (you are buying a license to listen to your copy). Selling the original media transfers that licence, so the artist makes no extra money but has been paid for all copies in use.
For me, there are *whole genres* of music I would have never heard of if not for the "Continue playing songs like this after last song" thing on Spotify.
Kinda reminds me of the early days of internet file sharing where people would pad the file names with similar bands to aid discovery.
Hell, I'd never heard any Iron Maiden till the Carmageddon II soundtrack... These were the days where game music was extra tracks on the game CD, so you could play it on a regular player.
Radio used to be the primary means of new music discovery, "The rock and Metal show" on 12am on a weds isn't going to feature on peoples radars unless they seek it out... or come across it while channel hopping for music to fall asleep to.
Even when Kerrang Radio launched, it seemed to deteriorate into one sub-genre (emo pop punk), which in itself is fine, but when its gets difficult to differentiate between bands, let alone songs, that gets old fast. Add to that the fact you get at most 2 songs in a row without interruptions and you start wondering what the hell are you dong with your life.
Auto generated playlist with "continue playing" at the end, and suddenly a lot of the frustration goes away. A mix of the familiar and the new (to the listener).
Radio used to be the primary means of new music discovery
It still is for me. Try listening to Radio Paradise (.com) - a very eclectic mix of music, all hand curated by a couple of real humans. No adverts, little repetition, and the ability to skip tracks you'd rather not listen to. They have FLAC streams for proper speakers, and compressed streams for mobile use.
Oh, and it's free - although you are invited to donate if you find yourself listening to it frequently.
"Radio used to be the primary means of new music discovery"
Radio is still around, although more in a streaming form these days. Not that that's a bad thing, I'm currently listening to PPN Radio (a lot of symphonic metal from somewhere in California, I think). I knew Nightwish and Within Temptation. Now I know a whole lot of other bands.
There are adverts (usually the same ones about "lock up your guns" and "don't drive when 'buzzed'"), but I consider them a necessary evil for the station existing. I take that as a good time to leg it into the kitchen and flick the kettle on...
I'd be more interested in unit sales, given vinyl is often sold at a premium / novelty price point. Also, the few vinyl albums I've examined often come with codes for digital downloads, so expensive vinyl is just a bulky gift card often, with little intention of it actually getting played.
Lastly, I still buy CDs, as I often go places that don't get a phone signal. Although, as I'm an old fart, I'm often picking up 2nd hand CDs that were released some time ago, by bands I'm late getting into. I use Spotify for the introductions, then buy the CD.
I used to own over 100 vinyl records from the 1990s as I was big into dance music and DJing, and appreciate the hands on you can get with vinyl is good for mixing. But while I am all for owning physical copies of music I don't get why you would choose to buy the vinyl version over the CD if its just played on a regular turntable. To get the same audio quality that even a cheap CD player can output you need to spend quite a lot on a turntable and amp. Then there is other inconveniencing of warping, scratches, jumps, flipping over the record, the space they take up.
You will never get the same audio quality as CD. The RIAA equalization sees to that. You may get equivalent frequency response and signal to noise (unlikely unless you unwrap and keep your vinyl in a clean room) but those things are not the whole story with audio quality. Transient response is part of the experience too.
The frequency response only for a few playings.
No, the S/N of Vinyl is worse. Which is related to dynamic range. The surface polish, track pitch and dust limit Vinyl S/N and dynamic range. The large hub area is to limit the drop off of frequency response towards the centre.
There are formats supposed to be better than CD, but they never succeeded because in the real world they are not needed. So since CDs are still produced, they are the pinnacle of consumer physical audio quality.
Note commercial CDs are pressed and home recorded use a change in a dye, so are very much less durable. Some CDs and DVDs are not well sealed so the reflective aluminium can corrode. Keep in a cool, dry dark place!
"Transient response is part of the experience too"
And so is huge amounts of compression, on way too many digital formats, CDs included. You have to pay attention to the whole chain - from recording to mastering to pressing, for both formats, to get the best from them. An original vinyl release can easily be better than some botched CD reissue.
"Streaming was top of the pops, accounting for 85 per cent of revenue"
Strange how we've been brainwashed into never owning anything any more. Pay per view, pay per listen, suddenly find it's been withdrawn. Not so long ago IKEA mooted leasing flat pack furniture. The word "legacy", which used to mean something you looked forward to, now means something you want to scrap.
Soon there'll be nothing to bequeath to our descendents. Everything will have become ephemeral, so in a couple of centuries this one will appear as another dark age.
Yeah, That's my take away from the story too. $4.8bn of rental fees with nothing to show for it other than a few fleeting moments of pleasure interspersed with a lot of "meh!". Nothing to pass on to your kids. I still have most of my dads record collection. All ripped to HDD of course after being carefully and lovingly cleaned. Some might even have a some monetary value these days.
You're paying for a transient pleasure, like going to the cinema or a pub or restaurant. Plenty of music isn't worth owning but is worth a few pennies for a period of time.
I prefer to own music myself, but I can understand those who prefer to rent and in doing so get access to a much broader range than I could for the same money.
The only proper way to listen to vinyl is on my father's *HiFi.
*HiFi =
1x Marantz preamp
2x thirty watt Marantz tube amps (One mono tube amp per speaker)
2x Bozak speakers that contain 2x12" woofers, 4x10" midrange speakers and 7x3" tweeters in each, enclosed in solid walnut cabinets.
Back when vinyl was king a proper HiFi stereo took up a third of the living room and componets were kept in furniture quality cabinets made of fine wood that matched the speakers that weigh more than the average person.
On Episode 5 of "Raised By Wolves", between 9m 53s and 10.25s, Ridley Scott's musicians used 12 notes of my music which was posted on the streaming website Youtube in June 2020, and I have no idea what to do about it.
Despite the very extensive and expensive number they ran on my music, I recognised it from the very first note. I know my sound. The next 31 seconds saw me becoming more and more incredulous as more and more of the notes of my music played out at me. I didn't exhale until the final note had played, they had obscured that note the most with layers of effects, but it was the exact pitch of my final note. I couldn't enjoy the rest of that episode.
I called the Scott Free Los Angeles and left a message asking why they had used my music without my permission, nobody has called me back. I then called the Scott Free London number. The message said that because of Covid-19, I should ring mobile numbers if I have them, because everyone was working from home. It then quoted the office email address. I was very upset and wrote (I regret to say) a very angry email threatening legal action and attached my tune. I guessed at Ridley's email address and sent it to him - it didn't get bounced back therefore it must have gone somewhere. Other guessed email addresses such as "webmaster@", "info@" etc bounced back. Then someone changed the Domain Settings on scottfree.co.uk to forward to nowhere. And it's still down. Perhaps Ridley received an email at his personal email address and panicked, thinking that his website has been hacked. It also has the effect of deleting his email server and any evidence that he received my email notification of a copyright breach. Every subsequent email has been bounced back, including the one quoted on the answering machine at Scott Free London.
They could have simply used different instruments and played my tune, but they sampled it first and stretched the 12 notes out (originally 4 seconds, they simply chopped my tune and spaced them out in Ableton or something) to about 32 seconds. Then they added reverb and atmosphere by playing it through a guitar cab and recording it's output. You can hear the horrendous hiss of a 70s classic guitar cab as my very slowed down tune fades in, unusual in such an otherwise squeaky clean audio presentation. They then kept the order of the played notes but changed the timing to fill 32 seconds. After that, it sounds like they added pre-echo and impulse to some of the notes (because they had lost some attack in the sound, because of it being stretched), then added layer upon layer of reverb to create an atmospheric piece. I recognised my sound despite all of this, from the very first note.
Taking such a huge company to Court costs hundreds of thousands of pounds. The only proof I have is my music on Youtube and the files on my computer hard drive which I am shortly going to put into humidity and temperature controlled storage. Any advice would be appreciated, I have no idea what I can do about it, if anything.
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