back to article Don't Flip out or anything, but the 'flexible glass display' on Samsung's latest pholdable doesn't behave like glass

Early adopters of Samsung's foldable Galaxy Z Flip have shed doubt on the phone's hardiness despite claims from the tech giant about its flexible glass display. One video by popular YouTuber Zack Nelson, which has since racked up over four million views, shows the Galaxy Z Flip being subjected to a brutal stress test. Youtube …

  1. Baldrickk

    inevitable byproduct of encounters with keys and coins

    Not with my phones they aren't - even (especially, due to weight?) with the old Nokia bricks I used to have, my valuable electronics have always been isolated from any issues like this by having a pocket dedicated to holding them, and nothing else.

    Coins, keys etc can go in the other side, thankyouverymuch.

    Rear pockets are also a no-no, for obvious reasons.

    Honestly, did anyone think this was really glass on the screen? It's not known for being particularly flexible, unless it's a strand of optical fibre thickness, and they are not known for being particularly strong.

    1. tony72

      Re: inevitable byproduct of encounters with keys and coins

      Honestly, did anyone think this was really glass on the screen? It's not known for being particularly flexible, unless it's a strand of optical fibre thickness...

      Upvote for the first part of your post, but Samsung actually calls the stuff "Ultra Thin Glass", so ...

    2. jason_derp

      Re: inevitable byproduct of encounters with keys and coins

      Honestly, did anyone think this was really glass on the screen?

      Only the people who saw Samsung's marketing materials for the phone! Oh...crap...

    3. cpm86

      Re: inevitable byproduct of encounters with keys and coins

      Perhaps best to avoid hardened woodscrews and capping nails in the same pocket then.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Facepalm

      Re: Upvote but..

      "Honestly, did anyone think this was really glass on the screen?"

      I've seen real (in video/pictures mind) "flexible thin glass". So the tech/manufacturing/processes exist. If they exist economically and reliability, well, that's down to the factories.

      I've also had 99% honesty from Samsung in the past. So when they said "glass" I assume "cool, they bought that thin glass/changed the design (perhaps 2 glass panels and a silicone/plastic folding weld/center)", etc.

      I was not expecting them to blatantly lie. My expectations from them are now tanked, and I am less likely to get a new phone from them. LG and Motorola look much more promising in both "innovation" (headphone socket and removable batteries) and reliability/honesty.

    5. Sampler

      Re: inevitable byproduct of encounters with keys and coins

      See this, I thought this whilst reading it, my phone's always lived in my left pocket (and nothing else) whereas keys, change and whatever else goes in the right (wallet in the back).

      But, more likely, what about those who stick metal to their ears, encrusted with pointy sharp stones liked diamonds, given, you know, you have to put your phone up to your ear to use it (admittedly, a more increasing secondary purpose...).

      Is this another one of those designed and built by cis-gendered males and not thinking of the wider demographical dataset?

      1. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge
        WTF?

        Really?

        This is discussion about phone screen durability. You had a reasonable point until your gender identity politics took over. Take that bullshit somewhere else.

    6. katrinab Silver badge
      Paris Hilton

      Re: inevitable byproduct of encounters with keys and coins

      "Honestly, did anyone think this was really glass on the screen?"

      They said it was glass, so yes.

      I don't think they would have sold any more phones on the back of it being glass, however they will lose sales by lying about it.

    7. Lotaresco

      Re: inevitable byproduct of encounters with keys and coins

      "It's not known for being particularly flexible, unless it's a strand of optical fibre thickness"

      With a rule of thumb bend radius for fibre being 15 x the diameter of the cable, optical fibre could not be bent at the tight angle seen in folding phone displays. It's a reasonable bet that "glass" is probably an marketing person's untruth.

      1. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: inevitable byproduct of encounters with keys and coins

        Is that bend radius the minimum for keeping the fibre intact or the minimum for having light travel through the bend?

        1. Peter Gathercole Silver badge

          Re: inevitable byproduct of encounters with keys and coins

          The latter. It's all about the angle of total internal reflection. Bend the fibre more than this, and the light (which is traveling in zig-zags down the fibre) gets refracted out, rather than reflected in. The fibre may survive being bent further, but the light will leak.

  2. gecho

    With the number 2 it appears to be permanently deforming the screen rather than scratching it. I'm curious if applying a controlled amount of heat might smooth that back out (or just create a warped mess).

    1. doublelayer Silver badge

      I'm not sure if heat is enough to make the glass flex back, and depending on how much you use, you could damage the display panel under the glass. If a small amount of pressure can make the glass move, I believe it unlikely that the glass will regain a useful equilibrium without direction. I wonder how this will handle people using styluses to write on the screen or light bumps and jostles in general use.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      He tried heat later in the video which did cause the "glass" to shrink and expand but left burn marks.

      1. DryBones

        We call that plexi-glass.

        1. localzuk Silver badge

          Which is plastic - acrylic.

    3. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge

      Going #2

      The flame test didn't fix any dents from a fingernail or #2 point. The #6 point shredded the screen with trivial effort.

      I'm guessing they're using using vapor deposition to apply a hard mineral layer to a plastic panel. It prevents haziness caused by microscopic scratches and oil absorption, but otherwise doesn't offer much mechanical protection. That wouldn't be very high-tech, unique, or honest.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Flexible display is not as robust as gorilla glass. Fuck me, never expected that.

    1. jason_derp

      I think most people expected that, but they also expected it WOULD be as scratch resistant as glass and not plastic. The Jerryrigeverything video shows his fingernail literally carving grooves into the screen.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        But why though? A bendable display is going to have more in common with cloth than armour plate. Expecting a material that can both bend and display screenstuff to ALSO be as hard as glass seems to be a little unrealistic to me.

        I'm sure that in the fullness of time an armour layer can be applied to the display layer to address objections such as yours. Has to be optically very good, though.

        1. Ken 16 Silver badge

          I had pictured it as being flexible on one axis only - spring steel rather than armour plate.

        2. Oliver Mayes

          Then maybe Samsung shouldn't advertise it as having those properties then?

        3. jason_derp

          "But why though?"

          Because they said it was glass.

      2. ilmari

        Surely anyone who has ever owned a car and driven towards the sun or another bright light could tell you that glass isn't all that scratch resistant?

    2. DrXym

      Corning have been developing a flexible gorilla glass. I doubt it will be tough as existing inflexible screens and might have bending radius limits but one hopes it is tougher and less deformable than plastic. Whatever Samsung is using on their screen and claiming to be glass clearly isn't.

      1. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge

        It probably has glass in it somewhere. Just not on the surface, and extremely thin. Suspect there's a ultra-thin glass layer buried in there, maybe sandwiched between plastic coatings to help prevent cracking as it flexes.

    3. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      This also just in: knives are sharp.

  4. DrXym

    Lawsuit time

    Having an allegedly glass screen that can be permanently marked with a fingernail is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Lawsuit time

      Not really. If it's glass, then it's glass. Glass can be loads of different qualities.

      Everyone looking at this are going "marketing says glass, we say... court case on 'were not calling it plastic till our lawyers and the labs get back to us'" at 10. ;)

      The video don't yet claim it's plastic, as that could be liable. So once we know Samsung is lying, then it will be known. :/ That's the problem, if you lie on marketing *before* release, no one can prove one way or the other!!!

      1. DrXym

        Re: Lawsuit time

        There is an expectation that a glass screen is harder and less deformable than plastic. Otherwise what's the point? If you can destroy this screen with a thumbnail or a bit of grit then why even bother?

        Real glass does actually flex by the way (think fibre optic cable). It's just a matter of making it thin and resilient enough that it can repeatedly bend the radius required by these sort of devices. And if they can't do that they shouldn't be making devices or should be prepared for the inevitable lawsuits.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Lawsuit time

          A rose bu any other name. You can sell a car with 7 seats that is big and slow or 1 seat that is small and fast. It's physically and logically impossible to be both, so how can a cars size be "expected".

          Likewise regardless of strength (I don't disagree with you however) the legal point will be if it's make of silicate or hydrocarbons. :P

      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Lawsuit time

        "The video don't yet claim it's plastic, as that could be liable."

        Well, it deforms at the fold then goes back into place, so if anything, it's elastic, not plastic :-)

    2. Krassi

      Re: Lawsuit time

      For what is and what isn't "glass" , see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_transition.

      If there are any lawsuits about the product, a better cause would be that it is defective rather arguments about what glass is.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Lawsuit time

        True, but "glass" the technical term of the physical property and "glass" the product vary. Else we'd all be eating Whale in our "fish" pies?

        1. Mike007 Bronze badge

          Re: Lawsuit time

          If a pie were advertised as containing fish but actually contained whale, I suspect the false advertising issue would be less of a concern than the other laws about that.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    WTF?

    I can't figure out what Samsung was thinking. Would a single prospective customer decide not to get it because it didn't have a glass screen? Were they that desperate to have an advertising feature that Moto didn't have? Did they think users wouldn't notice? Is it that hard for Sammy to be honest?

  6. jonnycando

    I just think this foldable display thing is desperation for ideas on the part of the manufacturers/designers.......and it's just never going to be a durable thing.

    1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
      WTF?

      Exactly.

      What is this obsession with foldable screens? I can't think of any real benefit - unless you like particularly long thin landscape pictures.

      If you're going to use it with a right angle fold you might just as well have two separate displays. It'll be far more robust.

      1. Lotaresco

        "What is this obsession with foldable screens?"

        I'm with you on this. The screen on my phone is good enough and having a phone wallet that protects the screen takes care of scratching the case or screen. The folding phone seems to solve a problem that no one has. It's probably just another shiny designed to extract money from wallets a bit faster.

      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        "What is this obsession with foldable screens? I can't think of any real benefit - unless you like particularly long thin landscape pictures."

        My thinking is that they have gone for the wrong use-case. Instead of making physically smaller phones which fold out to the size of a current non-folding phone, they should be looking at making a "standard" form factor phone which folds out into something much bigger than currently available. I'm think more along the lines of the 4"(ish) rather than 5"+ devices. And yes, in that form factor it might well be "good enough" to use two screens.

        Looking to the future though, imagine something the size of a large fountain pen which unrolls into a screen about the size of an A5 sheet of paper :-)

        1. Lotaresco

          "Looking to the future though, imagine something the size of a large fountain pen which unrolls into a screen about the size of an A5 sheet of paper"

          By that time we'll have Expanse style hand terminals with holographic screens. Just like we're all zooming around on hoverboards today.

        2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          "standard" form factor phone which folds out into something much bigger than currently available

          This is what t'missus wants - something the size of her old candy-bar phone that somehow unfolds out to have an A4-sized display..

          I then put my foot in it by insinuating that her vision is getting worse as she gets older.

          Oh well - the bruises will heal eventually. At least the dog still likes me (I'm afraid to ask the cats. Their answer will entirely depend on whether I have a bag of treats available..)

  7. Mike Lewis

    Why can't they...

    Make the two flat parts of the display out of Gorilla glass and the hinge out of transparent plastic?

    1. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge

      Re: Why can't they...

      Then there'd be two seams which would eventually become visible, even if not visible to start with. Plus it loses the wow factor (for some) of a single highly flexible homogenous screen.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I hope they advertise it in the UK using the word 'glass'. There is likely a very strict legal definition of 'glass' probably involving words like amorphous and silica and if the plastic surface does not match that definition, and I buy one, and it somehow gets scratched in a manner that a glass surface would have resisted, then I will *definitely* be demanding a refund and being very awkward until they give it to me to make me go away and scoring a free flip phone :D

    1. tfewster
      Facepalm

      Generally you would be entitled to a refund or repair if a product doesn't perform as advertised, but you don't get to keep it as well as the cash back. However, if you agree that if you drop the phone and the "glass" doesn't break, you'll pay Samsung for a replacement screen anyway...then I expect they would be flexible on repairs.

    2. Krassi

      Materials science does have a precise definition of Glass. Many polymers can be accurately be described as glasses - eg Perspex - "acrylic glass" is a technically correct description not just marketing puff. There are also metallic glasses. On the other hand, some hard clear substances such as diamond or sapphire are definitely not glasses.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Do you think the surface of the Samsung screen qualifies as glass or not?

    3. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Good luck with that. You'd get a refund, they might get a slap on the wrist from the ASA, but it wouldn't even get to the small claims court.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Someone has to say it..

    Samsung hasn't been very, umm, transparent about this then?

    :)

    (I consider it gimmicky - as yet I have not seen any useful problem that this solution addresses)

    1. Updraft102

      Re: Someone has to say it..

      Where I come from, problems aren't useful. If they're useful, they're not problems!

  10. sabroni Silver badge

    it's a clamshell

    It will be closed when in your pocket.

  11. wolfetone Silver badge

    Does a phone exist for Edward Scissorhands?

    No?

    Why is this any different then?

  12. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

    "The South Korean firm is also also offering some customers free screen protectors"

    So, I'm struggling to understand why these aren't factory fitted if they don't impede the functioning of the device,... I mean, why wouldn't they deliver the most robust product possible, out of the box?

    1. confused and dazed

      Re: "The South Korean firm is also also offering some customers free screen protectors"

      Maybe they look crap ?

      An equivalent question is why Apple doesn't ship their phones in cases and with screen protectors ... they'd certainly be more robust ....

      1. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

        Re: "The South Korean firm is also also offering some customers free screen protectors"

        @confused and dazed: "why Apple doesn't ship their phones in cases and with screen protectors"

        I get why manufacturers of tried and tested tech don't, they trust the components well enough to perform in the environments they are deployed in, and we the users have enough person hours of usage to have confidence in them too. But here, it's fresh turf, and at that price point I don't want to be a data point on the low side of the MTBF figure.

        But then I'm not the demographic for any of that, the last thing on my mind is 'how beautiful' a phone looks, that's for the type of person that thinks people look at them, and how they look matters.

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: "The South Korean firm is also also offering some customers free screen protectors"

      Presumably this was a toss up between the aesthetics and the materials teams. The device has probably been adequately tested but no doubt some users would prefer a slightly more beautiful device than a robust one.

      My Samsung S10 came with a screen protector fitted but I saw some idiot rip his off in an "unboxing" video to proclaim how much brighter the screen was.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "The South Korean firm is also also offering some customers free screen protectors"

        Are they the same who say how much better the colours are with the gold plated hdmi cable? ( and no not the one upgrading from sd to hdr colour space )

        1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: "The South Korean firm is also also offering some customers free screen protectors"

          Quite likely. There is a huge market for stuff that looks pretty but is as fragile as hell and/or utterly useless. These people also get to drive cars, operate machinery and vote: we're all fucked.

  13. localzuk Silver badge

    Protected when closed?

    "When not in use, the Galaxy Z Flip folds in half, with the screen protected from the usual sources of scratches and nicks that are the inevitable byproduct of encounters with keys and coins."

    This isn't really true either, courtesy of the rather large gap between the 2 sides when its closed. Could easily have coins or keys slide their way in there.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I saw a guy in a shopping mall hammering nails into a block of wood with his iphone to demonstrate how good the screen protector was. He asked me if I wanted to buy one. I told him I already had a hammer.

  15. Illuminati Ombudsman
    WTF?

    Wait, let me get this straight, people actually believed that there was such a thing as flexible glass?

    1. Mike007 Bronze badge

      The inside of the tubes that make up the interwebs contain flexible glass.

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like