back to article Amazon Germany faces Christmas strikes from elf stackers, packers and dispatchers

Amazon Germany is facing potential strike action at a bunch of its logistics hubs, but is reassuring punters that they will still get their packages in time for Christmas. Union Verdi has called for workers to down tools at four of Amazon's 13 German distribution centres. A spokesman for Amazon.de told us: "It's business as …

  1. Commswonk

    Painful Realisation

    So Amazon's German workers find that working in a "Fulfilment Centre" isn't all that, er, fulfilling.

    Quelle Surprise.

    1. TheProf

      Quelle Surprise

      Was für eine überraschung

      (Google translated this.)

    2. spold Silver badge

      Re: Painful Realisation

      Rudolf nose going to deliver... snow chance of settlement, presents to remain on the 'elf.

  2. Rich 11

    "It's business as usual for Amazon today with our well-paid, dedicated and highly respected teams across Germany doing what they do every day – delivering for their customers."

    And what about the ones who aren't so well paid?

    1. big_D Silver badge

      In previous years, that was the contention. The union said the workers were severley underpaid, because Amazon called itself a logistics company and not a retailer, whilst the union argued that Amazon was selling products, so it was a retailer.

      The difference is the working hours, extra shift allowances and overtime in retail is much better paid than in logistics.

      A couple of years back, they were accused of using cheap outside labour for seasonal work (Christmas, Easter etc.) - "they" were engaging workers from Spain or the former East Block and promising good wages, paid for the flight to Germany and transport to the facility, only for the prospective employee to be handed a much worse contract and told to like it or lump it, oh and you'll have to pay for your own journey back home.

      Amazon countered that it was a third party company hiring the staff for them and they knew nothing about it - although they allegedly didn't stop, once the ZDF (2nd state TV channel) documentary team confronted them.

      But I haven't heard anything in the last couple of years, so I'm assuming they've cleaned up at least part of their act.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Just, most of their delivery workers are external contractors... so not actually part of any "Amazon team".

      I pass in front of an Amazon delivery centre each day on my way to work - all those "white vans" to avoid any connection to Amazon if anything bad happens.

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        re: delivery workers are external contractors

        And in the UK, often on Zero hours contracts.

        I would not work for Amazon even on £100/hour

        1. Rich 11

          Re: re: delivery workers are external contractors

          Unless your friendly local JobCentre Plus forces you under threat of sanction.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: re: delivery workers are external contractors

            re: "your friendly local JobCentre Plus forces you [to work for Amazon] under threat of sanction"

            Ayup. All the more likely with proposals to reduce eligibility for food stamps and other assistance, since the "robust economy" and "low unemployment rate" apparently mean that jobs are out there for the taking and people therefore don't need assistance. What is not said, of course, is what these jobs are (real jobs with real benefits, predictable and worthwhile work hours, and a modicum of dignity? or disposable McJobs, of which one needs at least two to ensure enough hours to keep the lights on, with no hope for healthcare?) or why anyone outside of robots should be expected to perform them under the conditions (underpaid, hectic pace, penalties for restroom breaks, mandatory unpaid TSA-style searches at shift's end, ad nauseum) inflicted by Amazon and their ilk. It does not reflect well on us as a culture that such operations can exist on this scale. Sure, there will always be cases of bona fide need for immediate delivery (medical situations, mostly), but the rest of us? Really?

    3. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Especially in Germany. One of the problems with Germany is that sending packages is very cheap. This has been engineered by Deutsche Post as a way of keeping the competition out of the market. And, if you think it's ridiculously cheap, then you'd be right. Package deliverers have been found to be earning less than the minimum wage and resorting to things like living in their vans to make ends meet.

      But for Amazon prices were still too high so it started it's own fleet of "self-employed" package pushers who usually do the rounds in the evening as a way "to earn a little extra money". Strange that none of them on the rounds here speak German when they try co-opting neighbours into the great package delivery system.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        For Amazon, it really doesn't matter. In Italy the postal system is known to be slow, unreliable and packages contents are stolen not so rarely1. And it's not very cheap either. Most people here, and most online sellers as well, avoid the postal system like pest.

        But Amazon is obsessed with "Prime" and free deliveries as a marketing tool - so it has to squash delivery costs as much as it can.

        1Latest example a gang that could enter a large sorting centre unchecked and steal mailed credit cards. Then they posed like the bank and asked the user the part of the PIN they missed (asking them to type it on the phone and reading the sequence from the MF sounds). They was able to steal a million euro before being caught.

  3. batfink

    Business as usual?

    "It's business as usual for Amazon today with our well-paid, dedicated and highly respected teams across Germany"

    However, the rest of the underpaid, disregarded, pissed-off teams will be on strike.

  4. jelabarre59

    Bowling

    And when I see something about Elves going on strike I can only think of the old MSWin95 game Elf Bowling.

  5. sbt
    Trollface

    The Fists of the furious from Finland

    I thought this story was about Germany?

    1. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge
      WTF?

      Re: The Fists of the furious from Finland

      Yeah the article's image makes zero sense compared to its content. Lazy, el Reg.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Amazon is Evil

    Google is Evil

    Facebook is Evil

    Apple is Evil

    Twitter is Evil

    [big US Company] is Evil

    I guess there is a pattern here.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Amazon is Evil

      I guess there is a pattern here.

      Yes. People don't care as long as their shiny-shiny is cheap.

      1. Arctic fox

        Re: Amazon is Evil

        No they don't, even if they also are similarly exploited workers. About time that hoi poloi grasped the concept "solidarity".

        1. jmch Silver badge

          Re: Amazon is Evil

          "About time that hoi poloi grasped the concept "solidarity"."

          But that's exactly why in the Reagan/Thatcher years a great effort was made to reduce solidarity and encourage 'every man for himself'.

          divide et impera

          1. ICL1900-G3

            Thatcher II

            I suspect Johnson will make us yearn for Thatcher.

      2. Tom 7

        Re: Amazon is Evil

        I care - but its hard finding someone else who will sell you the shiny-shiny.

        1. Fred Dibnah

          Re: Amazon is Evil

          It really isn’t.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Amazon is Evil

        Oh, but we DO care, as long as that "care" costs nothing.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Amazon is Evil

      I guess there is a pattern here.

      Yes. Big US IT companies think they are above the law, then they act all surprised when they get called out.

      1. jmch Silver badge

        Re: Amazon is Evil

        Big companies think they are above the law, then they act all surprised when they get called out.

        FTFY

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Amazon is Evil

        "Suprised"?

        More like offended and annoyed.

    3. deadlockvictim

      Re: Amazon is Evil

      It's simply capitalism as it was designed to work. It's not evil, it's just capitalism.

      The workers are merely resources, much like the forces you have in Civilization or some other game. Soon enough Jeff Bezos will able to start rolling out robots, Amazon Prime subscriptions will increase and prices for many products will fall. There will be no more talk about poorly paid or overworked workers.

      But don't let any of this non-Amazon-approved info get in the way of the incredible convenience of using your Amazon prime account at a moment's notice and receiving your package before you've barely put your smartphone down.

      Remember, it's all being done for you.

      1. steviebuk Silver badge

        Re: Amazon is Evil

        True. As much as we hate them, the only way to stop them is to stop using them. The problem is, this Christmas I was sat on the bog ordering stuff via Amazon as it's quick and easy, but still dislike them.

        1. jospanner

          Re: Amazon is Evil

          It isn't possible to stop using capitalism in a capitalist economy. That is where the term "no ethical consumption under capitalism" comes from - it is impossible to be ethical in an economic model that rewards the most ruthless of exploitative behaviours at every single turn, including rewarding the undermining of the systems that should control the worst excesses of those behaviours.

          People talk about it in terms of competition. I have nothing against competition, but there's a difference between a football match and gladiatorial combat.

          1. steviebuk Silver badge

            Re: Amazon is Evil

            Not talking about stopping using capitalism, was saying it is possible to stop using Amazon. Shop elsewhere and don't using their streaming service would be two areas. But you'd need millions of people to agree to do it for it to have an effect.

            1. Fred Dibnah

              Re: Amazon is Evil

              So you know that Amazon treat their employees terribly, but you keep buying from them because it’s quick and easy and everyone else does. With respect, that’s a pretty poor attitude to have. You *would* make a difference by not using them, and if enough people did the same they would take notice.

          2. jmch Silver badge

            Re: Amazon is Evil

            "It isn't possible to stop using capitalism in a capitalist economy"

            Yes, but it is possible to have a capitalist economy where the laws are not so savagely skewed in favour of the capitalists

        2. Chris G

          Re: Amazon is Evil

          I have stopped buying from Amazon, I find their prices higher than alternative sources, can find much of what I want direct from Ali Express (since so many products are made in China) at a cheaper price and free shipping, the only downside being a longer wait. But even the shipping is getting faster now they are stocking warehouses in Europe and other places.

          I must say though, I don't know what Ali pays like.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Amazon is Evil

            I'd be careful about glorifying aliexpress over amazon, I imagine their practices are so much worse than amazon's... - which doesn't stop ME ordering from ali, nosir :(

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "it's just capitalism"

        No, it's just one of the form capitalism can take, just like socialism can take the form of soviet communism (or Chinese capitalism or North Korean nightmare)

        The problem is we have companies that can try to enforce a capitalism without rules, or better with the "strongest one" rule. Especially in US when politicians became so dependent on company moneys to be elected they are ready to give them whatever they ask - but in US neutering workers' rights has always been too easy.

        It's no surprise this happens in Germany where capitalism has to work within far stricter rules, and socialism took the form of the SPD.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "it's just capitalism"

          It's no surprise this happens in Germany where capitalism has to work within far stricter rules, and socialism took the form of the SPD.

          And correspondingly it's why Germany exports big stuff like cars, where the cost overheads are proportionately less, but all the small stuff where every cent counts now comes from China.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: "it's just capitalism"

            Germany exports high-end technology and machinery - where the Chinese can't still compete.

            There's no way you can compete with Chinese labor exploitation for other goods, unless, of course, you're Amazon and you're adopting the same labor exploitation techniques....

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Soon enough Jeff Bezos will able to start rolling out robots

        but there's this still unresolved minor issue: if (most) of the workers of the world get replaced by robots, who's gonna afford the shiny-shiny peddled by Mr Bezos Jr?

    4. jospanner

      Re: Amazon is Evil

      Capitalism necessarily promotes ruthless exploitation of people and earth. It rewards the undermining of regulation at every turn including interfering with the political process itself.

      And we are shocked - shocked! - to find it working exactly as intended.

    5. Marty McFly Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Amazon is Evil

      Yes, big evil companies and their miss-gotten profits. They shouldn't hoard money like that. Shame on them for getting a good return for their investors. We need to bust them up and take all their money.

      Good thing I don't own any stock in those companies. All my retirement is in mutual funds which are invested in....oh....right. Nevermind. Forget everything I said.

      Profitable big companies are good!

  7. jospanner

    Give em hell, folks.

  8. disgruntled yank

    Elf?

    Nur elf? Nicht zwölf order mehr?

  9. arctic_haze

    They do work today

    I know that because I've just received an email from Amazon.de that the toys I ordered are on the way. So most of the elves must actually toil relentlessly as shown in the Disney movies.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Barking MP?

    That's not a nice way to describe somebody

    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      Re: Barking MP?

      I doubt if it was personal, it applies to all 650 of them.

    2. Korev Silver badge

      Re: Barking MP?

      I guess the other alternative would have been "MP for Barking" which trivialises her job somewhat...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Barking MP?

        Woof!

      2. Teiwaz

        Re: Barking MP?

        So, who's the MP for Miaowing?

        Or the MP for Oinking?.....

        ...I'm sorry, I didn't mean to ignore you, Boris.

        1. Claverhouse Silver badge
          Alert

          MP for Oinking

          Boris had nothing to do with that hideous travesty at the Bullingdon.

          He never even met the Demon Butler, let alone Dave's good friend. Nor was he Best Man at their Sporuslike simulacrum of a wedding.

          He has never even heard of the Bullingdon; and will continue to deny it under oath unless photographic evidence emerges.

          In which case he will steal the camera.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Barking MP?

      well, that's her though, all bark, no bite (she's been barking up the amazon tree for AT LEAST the last 5 years). Being cynical, I suppose she's doing it for self-promotion. No harm done, the world turns as it was, given that amazon, google and pals come with... many powerful friends, and a barking MP is just perceived as a space oddity.

  11. Cynic_999

    ISTR

    My memory may be faulty - but isn't Amazon Germany's warehouse motto "Work makes you free"?

    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      Re: ISTR

      If that's intended as a joke it isn't very funny. "Arbeit macht frei" was a slogan used in Nazi concentration camps.

      1. Kernel

        Re: ISTR

        "If that's intended as a joke it isn't very funny. "Arbeit macht frei" was a slogan used in Nazi concentration camps."

        While I agree that the comment wasn't very appropriate, we should also remember that that, like the song "Deutschland Uber Alles", the phrase "Arbeit Macht Frei" dates from the 1800s, long before the Nazi regime in Germany.

        https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Arbeit_macht_frei

      2. Cynic_999

        Re: ISTR

        "

        If that's intended as a joke it isn't very funny. "Arbeit macht frei" was a slogan used in Nazi concentration camps.

        "

        Sorry. Far better that we never mention it and just forget it ever happened, eh?

        Incidentally, whilst "Arbeit macht frei" was coined long before Hitler was born, the phrase "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" was first used by Hitler's SS.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They have nothing to fear...

    Just another reason for Amazon to push forward with full automation of their warehouses.

    Once the meatbags are all unemployed then they won't have to worry about working hard for a living.

    As for the robot staff, free WD40 in the break room and a monthly welfare concert from Compressorhead is all they'll need.

    1. Tom 7

      Re: They have nothing to fear...

      The ultimate effect of Amazon will be to have no market to sell to.

      1. TimMaher Silver badge
        Coffee/keyboard

        Re: They have nothing to fear...

        Reminded me of the “Electric Dreams” rendition of Philip K. Dick’s “Autofac”.

        Good programme.

  13. SVV

    "It's business as usual for Amazon today"

    said Amazon spokesman Ebenezer Bezos. Peering into the gloomy depths of the distribution centre, he noticed a sad figure shuffling down an aisle. "Cratchett!" he boomed. "That's your second toilet break this week - and we can't afford Christmas bonuses for those who feel that the pressure in their bladders is more important than packaging DVDs for rotund Uncle Silas at this special time of year can we?".

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    our well-paid, dedicated and highly respected teams

    sounds like Boris J, calling his ex-eu partners "our beloved friends".

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: our well-paid, dedicated and highly respected teams

      Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer?

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Barking MP Margaret Hodge" ?

    I think rephrasing that to "MP for Barking, Margaret Hodge " makes for clarity as readers could get the wrong impression about the Rt Hon Margaret Hodge.

    I think the monster raving loony party should target that seat in the next election.

  16. herman

    M$1 tax

    Amazon's accountants obvious missed a few things they can still deduct.

    What this shows is that what we really need is something half VAT and half GST - since neither work well enough to compensate for sleezy company accounting practices.

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