I see your blue passport and raise you a green number plate: UK mulls rewards scheme for zero-emission vehicles The UK government has a cunning plan to help meet its carbon emissions targets: green number plates. Today the Department for Transport published a consultation on the number plates (PDF) as a way to allow zero-emission vehicles to benefit from incentives such as cheaper parking. In the foreword, transport minister Grant …
Which is why the article says a green flash at the side of the plate rather than, as you say, black on green.
Alternatively, have the characters in embossed white on the top of a nice dark, nationalistic green, say British racing green and we can go back to the days of yore.
Well, they could kill (revive?) two birds with one stone and have the audio warning for the EVs be like the reversing warning on the bin lorries:
"ATTENTION! ELECTRIC VEHICLE APPROACHING!"
Coat please, the green one, with the bamboo toothbrush in the pocket...
Given that the criminal fraternity don't seem to have any difficulties in obtaining number plates to which they are not entitled to enable the cloning of vehicles I suspect that there will be no more than about 24 hours elapse before ICE vehicles are running around with "green" plates to which they have no entitlement in an attempt to obtain the "benefits" of an EV plate.
I would hope (stupid of me I know) that misrepresenting a vehicle's source of motive power will become a specific offence.
Before a ticket is issued, the DVLA-lookup will determine the validity of green credentials. Parking wardens have access to similar info as well surely so can issue tickets accordingly.
Not entirely sure how a green plate is going to be useful except as a way to let other drivers know they are entitled to use the bus lane as they waft by with a smug look on their face saying "I had an extra 30 minutes in bed 'cos I can use this lane"...
That's because the mark 1 Leaf has a truly horrendous range of about 90-130 miles tops, real world 70-105 or so, new one does 168-239 depending on model. Real world probably a bit less.
Most new model EVs do 250 + real world probably from 215/220 upwards.
One of my colleagues at work as a taxi driving friend. They shifted to a Leaf 3 years ago and can not believe how little the running costs are now compared to his diesel.
One question about this will this apply to hybrids (plug in or otherwise)? If so can see a lot of those bought for lower company car tax burning fossil fuel while gaining the benefits. I had an Outlander PHEV as a personal car and binned it early for a diesel as the petrol mpg was poor and I could only get 17-23 miles of EV range (seemed to be an issue where some were really poor on EV while others were much better even with the same driver & driven in same way).
My friend has a Tesla, and I've queried it's lack of range before, but firstly, he has a small child, so the distance between nappy changes is well within the Tesla's range.
Also, once you've driven for two hundred odd miles, even in a petrol car you'll probably want to stop for fifteen minutes to streach your legs (etc.). That's all the time the car needs to charge back up to get you another hundred miles.
I'll stick to burning dinos for now though.
A couple of months ago, on the spur of the moment, we at E7P Towers decided on a weekend break in Amsterdam (while we can, etc.). Upon leaving Schiphol airport, we looked at the options for getting to our hotel, and ultimately headed for the taxi rank.
They were *all* Teslas... and let's just say, by the time we reached the hotel our daughter was saying to us, "can we have one of these?"
For that matter, Amsterdam also has a great tram system too - what I wouldn't give for something like that where we live... but that's a whole other ball-of-Edam game :-)
Not entirely sure how a green plate is going to be useful except as a way to let other drivers know they are entitled to use the bus lane as they waft by with a smug look on their face saying "I had an extra 30 minutes in bed 'cos I can use this lane"...
It's what's known as "nudge theory" - no draconian rules, no real cost, just an opportunity to virtue signal and one-up the neighbours.
"I had an extra 30 minutes in bed 'cos I can use this lane"...
It's what's known as "nudge theory" - no draconian rules, no real cost, just an opportunity to virtue signal and one-up the neighbours.
Except what are the chances of the drivers in the normal lanes letting the smug gits out of the bus lane when they want to pass a bus at a stop, or when they want to turn right? "Sorry I was late boss, I saved 30 mins coming down the bus lane, then a was stuck for an hour trying to turn into the office"
"if you can afford an EV you're probably rich enough to be worth mugging"
Only in the UK. Other countries provide massive subsidies and tax breaks for using EVs which makes them far more affordable. In Norway people buy a Tesla rather than a BMW or Merc or Audi because they cost about the same or less (VAT at 25% is taken off, followed by various subsidies) - your Tesla model 3 at £45k here is about £33k in Norway before additional subsidies.
Not entirely sure how a green plate is going to be useful except as a way to let other drivers know they are entitled
I'm thinking this might lead to a "Car Wars" scenario where each side will be battling for lanes on the roadways and also parking spots. Class warfare of the entitled and non-entitled coming soon to street near you.
but this would hurt the treasury, no? How to have it both ways, ie. electric cars that people pay themselves for (3 x price of a petrol one). And then, make them pay "green" extra to compensate for loss of treasurey profits from fuel-related taxes and such. OK, how about petrol v. electric road wars...
While these incentives might be good now, how long before the councils realise the bus lanes are backed up and they aren't making money from car parks because they are chocked full of EVs and so drop these incentives?
What needs to be done to get people in EVs is get the price of new EVs to be cheaper than the equivalent ICE vehicles. Either through a reduction in VAT for EVs, increased tax on ICE vehicles or a scrappage scheme to get older polluting vehicles off the road.
You mean something akin to the parking privileges available (in theory at least) to disabled people? Surely anyone enforcing (most) parking rules already has to check in the windscreen for blue badges?
Go icon 'cos it's green, but should probably have used t'other one.
If only we had a circular disc which could attach to the inside windscreen and allow us to "differentiate vehicles".
They do that in France, a coloured disc with 6 values depending on the perceived pollution levels (i.e. using meaningless CO2 figures). When pollution in a city reaches a certain level, cars with the 'worst' discs are banned (yes, stable doors & all that).
My yellow disc is now so faded by the sun that all you can read is the black printed licence plate number across the middle.
Well it is supposed to work that way, but it is never enforced.
As an example, such a restriction was put in place last August in Paris (strangely it was after a week where most Parisian were out of the city, so not much car traffic before...).
Since it was on a week-end where people were coming back from holidays, the restrictions were not enforced, otherwise almost nobody would have been able to go home ;-)
And in all the other cases there was always good reasons to waive the restriction...
@gc73
Maybe commentard referred to parking spaces that are common in many plcaes and still seen to be based on car sizes from early 1970s (when a "big" family car was typically smaller than a modern "small" car such as a Fiesta).
Some parking spaces near me are a struggle for small cars and Chelsea Tractors always overflow the space
Some quick numbers - The normal UK parking bay is 2.4m x 4.8m. (8x16 ft. as was)
Nearly 60 years ago when the Ford Cortina mk1 was 1.55m Wid. x 4.28m Len (26cm of bay free at each end). - its 4.55m diagonal size was much shorter than the bay size and easy to parallel park.
Now a new Tesla S3 (slightly smaller than a VW passat) is 1.85m Wid. x 4.7m Len (5cm of bay free at each end)). with a diagonal of 5.04m you can't park this sized car in a bay without overlapping each of the adjoining bays by 12cm. It's not possible to park three S3 sized cars in three contiguous bays and for the middle one to exit. The other Tesla models are just outright longer than a bay (S-4.98m X-5.03m) as are many large familty cars & SUVs.
With Nose-in bays it gets worse, the Cortina has doors about 10cm deep while modern cars are about 25 deep (safety regs.), modern cars have about 5cm of open door gap when they reach the edge of their bay and about 35cm when they contact the next car over, The old Cortinas have 85cm between the cars. parking an SUV between two other SUVs requires exiting via the sun roof or rear.
"It really does grow on trees you know!"
Well, since we decided to adopt the leaf as legal tender, we have, of course, all become immensely rich. But we have also run into a small inflation problem on account of the high level of leaf availability, which means that, I gather, the current going rate has something like three deciduous forests buying one small pot of green paint.
So not only do lucky people who can afford a new electric car get their purchase subsidised by everyone else, they also get to use the roads for free, use of free charge points and now they get subsidised parking and more benefits besides. Why so many subidies? Electric cars still consume a lot of energy shifting half a ton of batteries around. The reduced running / service costs of electric cars ought to be enough of an incentive. Why not reward those who avoid car journeys?
Also why punish conscientious vehicle owners for avoiding the premature scrappage of a servicable vehicle? Every extra mile obtained from an existing vehicle avoids the significant environmental impact of building a new one. The more miles we get from our vehicles the better overall, but this incentive encourages consumerist consumption.
The government are also floating the idea of introducing tolls for roads the taxpayer has already paid for, on the fabricated premise that electric cars don't pay road tax. Well treat road users equally and make them all pay road tax!
There are over 38 million licensed vehicles on UK roads including over half a million HGVs, almost all are using oil derived power. The power requirement does not drop just because they all go electric. The HGVs will require battery charging in the MW range, spread across a day thats over 20,000 per hour and none of the UKs current truck stops have plug in points.
The UK oil refineries have a combined production capacity of some 60+M tonnes per year, I believe that the electrical power equivilent of the product is something like a constant 80GW, this is quite a bit more than the average 31GW national load the electrical system currently copes with.
Even with the lower % transmission loss of the electric grid compared to the thermal energy loss from ICE there is still a major national upgrade required to provide the power.
The idea that we can replace all current oil & gas powered devices with the current electric generation & transmission network capacity is laughable.
"The UK oil refineries have a combined production capacity of some 60+M tonnes per year, I believe that the electrical power equivilent of the product is something like a constant 80GW, this is quite a bit more than the average 31GW national load the electrical system currently copes with."
Out of curiosity, how much grid power is currently used in refining oil into it's various products, particularly petrol and diesel? Is there much of an offset there or is it negligible?
As we don't need to upgrade the grid ...
That's not what the "get a smart meter" ads on radio are saying. On those adverts, they claim that lecky consumption is forecast to double, and that's not going to be reliably provided without some significant upgrades in dispatchable generating capacity.
There are a number of different ideas they are floating at the moment, but what is definitely true is that the current regime of subsidy on purchase, zero road tax and standard electricity prices will not remain in the coming years.
All of these things will be swept away "when the EV just becomes 'the car'" (as the government propaganda is telling us).
I'd guess we'll see these measures in place as soon as EV's reach 20% of the vehicles on the road - not too far away I'd guess.
Some of the different options being considered are outlined here:
https://www.current-news.co.uk/blogs/the-tax-man-cometh-how-might-the-government-solve-the-riddle-of-ev-taxation
The next thing after tailpipe emissions btw is particle emissions from tyres and brakes. Expect to see low pollution zones where electric vehicles are given a pollution rating and you pay a pollution charge to drive a 4.5 tonne electric peasant crusher vs a Renault Zoe. Probably also a significant scrappage charge on EOL battery packs.
One thing is for sure though - all those people that imagine they are escaping the endless tax war on motorists by buying an EV are wrong.
Yeah, I see this as an attack on poor people that can't afford new cars, that live in flats that have no charging points, that need a car in order to participate in society but don't have the luxury of a high income.
Green number plates? Sure. Virtue signal all you like.
Using them to lord it over the rest of society? Expect a response.
>HS2 is primarily intended to increase capacity not reduce journey time
The "increase capacity" came later, HS2 was conceived as a new shiny trainset for (Labour) politicians to show how technically with-it they were back in circa 2008, word got out and a queue of politicians from all parties formed, as they were also keen to be seen to be forward looking, with-it etc. etc.. Having had the idea politicians then went looking for things that could be misrepresented to support the need for HS2. I'm sure some spin doctor could come up with how HS2 will be beneficial to blockchain...
"tolls for roads the taxpayer has already paid for, on the fabricated premise that electric cars don't pay road tax"
All very well, except your road tax has sod all to do with roads. Road maintenance is paid for by local taxes by and large, your "road tax" (vehicle excise duty) goes to a government fund. Toll roads would be a good way of funding roads directly, and making those who use them most pay relatively more. Don't expect our glorious leaders to cut excise duty on cars to compensate, of course.
TBH the idea of vehicle weight being a major factor is something I've long wondered why nothing has been done about in the UK.
It goes without saying that the more the weight, the more the energy needed to propel it, therefore the more the pollution.
Why don't we simply set a 1 tonne limit for personal vehicles and everything else is commercial?
Why does a 2019 Vauxhall Astra weigh ~1.8 tonnes? The 1990's version weighed 900kg.
And that's only an Astra - not some monster peasant crusher 4x4.
"Why does a 2019 Vauxhall Astra weigh ~1.8 tonnes? The 1990's version weighed 900kg. And that's only an Astra - not some monster peasant crusher 4x4."
It weighs HOW MUCH? Sheesh, that's about the same as my Land Rover Defender, which is a monster peasant crusher 4x4. Not even my old V6 Vectra was as heavy as that. Are they casting the engine blocks from depleted uranium, or just piling on the bells and whistles?
Cheaper cars actually weigh more than the more expensive models, due to the use of cheaper but heavier components and materials. And the average weight of vehicles has been going up due to the increase in features (mainly safety features).
Many highend cars are made of carbon fibre or aluminium, cheaper cars tend to still be made of steel.
the idea of vehicle weight being a major factor is something I've long wondered why nothing has been done about in the UK.
Because compared to the damage done by 48 tonne lorries, cars are irrelevant. The companies that test road longevity don't even bother to take car traffic into account, it has so little additional impact. IIRC the damage done is proportional to the 4th power of the vehicle weight.
"Green number plates have the potential to be a powerful motivator to encourage road users to shift to cleaner vehicles"
As in "encourage the rich to buy expensive new cars that shift the pollution from the road to the power station".
Practically every single "green initiative" so far has (probably unintentionally) merely made it possible for the rich to carry on as before while limiting the options of the poor.
"shift the pollution from the road to the power station"
That on it's own isn't an issue. In fact it's a benefit since you only need to clean the pollution at one very large exhaust instead of carrying around the equipment on 1000's of cars. (times the number of power stations)
Other than that, yes, I get your point :-)
EVs are still for the relatively wealthy
I mainly use public transport for journeys of any size BUT use a car also (in the sticks, no public transport near me so have to drive to reach a bus / train station - cycling not an option as too many silly drivers and vehicle crashes on unlit narrow twisty country roads & don't want to end up in intensive car or worse if risked cycling)
Small car I have is over 10 years old & would love to replace it with EV (cost of repair getting significant)ds replacing as starting to have lots of mechanical issues so needs replacing anyway) .
But .. cost
New EV car is massively expensive (NB always purchased petrol cars second hand anyway so my budget less than new petrol car price)
Minimal EV second hand market - so second hand not a viable option.
So, purchase likely to be yet another small second hand car to (metaphorically) drive into the ground.
A short-term incentive at best.
Also, I can never be eligible. I rent a flat in a managed estate where the private allocated car parking space is not within cable range of my flat, and where the letting agreement actually includes a "no trailing cables, nothing out of the windows" clause.
Hence I will have to wait until my landlord's management agent installs a several-KW charger inside my private parking space. The alternative is to park my car some half-a-kilometre away from my house and leave it unattended overnight in a town centre car park with precisely two electric parking slots. I'm not sure what that would do to the insurance but I'm certain it won't be positive. While it may be good exercise, it's not why I own a car, or live in a flat with an allocated parking space.
For reference: The entrance to my flat involves going down a dark, unlit alleyway to a dark, unlit garden which they have told myself (and all the other residents for 20+ years because literally everyone who has ever lived there has complained) that they can't illuminate the path as there's no utility lighting down there, only individual metered residential connections. So... good luck with that! They can't be bothered to install the infrastructure for a 5W LED bulb for the last 20+ years, with health-and-safety liability, I'm sure they'll jump straight on the electric-fast-charger bandwagon and dig up all the parking spaces just for me to have a "green" car...
And when we're all using the bus lanes, and all using green electricity, and all the pigs are flying, then we can safely say that all those incentives will evaporate and our electric fancy cars will end up costing just as much to run as our old ICE cars did - plus inflation - because otherwise there's a massive drop in revenue.
How about no?
they can't illuminate the path as there's no utility lighting down there, only individual metered residential connections.
I bought some solar-powered lights for exactly that purpose. Solar panel on the edge of the roof, LED light giving nice bright light on the patio when someone steps outside. Less than 30 quid, IIRC.
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