back to article Her Majesty opens UK Parliament with fantastic tales of gigabit-capable broadband for everyone

The UK government has promised to roll out new legislation to achieve nationwide "gigabit-capable broadband" among 26 bills set out in Parliament's State Opening today. In her opening, the Queen said the government's priority "has always been to secure the United Kingdom's departure from the European Union on 31 October". As …

  1. jason 7

    Dont give the contract to...

    ...Openreach. They have had enough money delivering half hearted efforts the past 20 years.

    1. Nick Kew

      Re: Dont give the contract to...

      They were here today: my FTTC was due. But it seems I still have to wait for any such luxury, while they fix something between here and the cabinet.

      Of course if they don't give it to Openreach, maybe they'll have a tendering process ... like the trains. I wonder if Grayling is available to demonstrate how serious they are?

      1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

        Re: Dont give the contract to...

        Of course if they don't give it to Openreach, maybe they'll have a tendering process ... like the trains.

        Probably. But tendering will just result in fragmented networks and customers possibly locked into a single vendor. At least with Openreach there's the various wholesale & LLU-style options so customers can switch provider.

        New build changes obviously won't help the 25m or so existing homes, and the devil will be in the detail, ie the building regs.. Which could be interesting, ie what they'll require, so duct(s), risers, space & power for kit in common areas and then there'll still probably be headaches around accessing those. Plus it'll still need some friendly telco to connnect to that infrastructure and terminate services for their customers. Then interesting times to sort out access for maintenance, and SLA implications.

      2. NoneSuch Silver badge
        Joke

        It's no problem...

        After a no deal BREXIT, they'll be cutting the cables to the UK anyway.

        1. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
          Headmaster

          Re: It's no problem...

          You spelt openreach wrong

          Its "Openretch"

          YAY finally used the grammer nazi icon

          1. WhiteDragon43
            Go

            Re: It's no problem...

            I always read it as Open Breach, killed off the land line - (PlusNet "Do You2") now on 4G which is just adequate - might play with an aerial to improve.

          2. LenG

            Re: It's no problem...

            Pity you can't spell grammar ... it sort of spoils the effect

            1. DontFeedTheTrolls
              Coat

              Re: It's no problem...

              Awwww, don't be nasty, Boris the Cockroach probably needs comforting now.

              They're, their, there.

        2. streaky

          Re: It's no problem...

          After a no deal BREXIT, they'll be cutting the cables to the UK anyway.

          Vast majority of the bandwidth between the US and Europe passes through the UK so I wish them every luck with that. Bit late to start laying pipe now.. All that finance traffic down the toilet, oh dear..

        3. TheVogon

          Re: It's no problem...

          I think you will find that traffic will increase if only to bypass EU regulations.

          This and numerous other reasons such as a predicted 50% loss of car German car sales to its largest and most profitable market with a consequential loss of 100,000 jobs alone whilst the German economy is already technically in recession is why the EU is now crapping itself at the real possibility of a no deal Brexit and the "take it or leave it Brexit deal" is suddenly negotiable again.

          1. AnHPCGuy

            Re: It's no problem...

            The largest and most profitable single market for German cars is Germany. I don't think Germany is leaving itself.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: It's no problem...

              20% of Geman car sales are to the UK. A third of their EU exports.

          2. john heyes

            Re: It's no problem...

            I do like a good joke..... EU crapping itself.... yeah, thats happening.

            1. TheVogon

              Re: It's no problem...

              From this week's FT"

              "Hundreds of German companies call for EU help as Brexit fears bite"

    2. Hans 1
      Happy

      Re: Dont give the contract to...

      In France, the telcos are deploying 10Gbps EPON "together" in partnerships, you can then choose your preferred telco.

      The tried the each owns his own with the 3G LTE and noticed that ended up with severe overcapacity in cities and hardly any presence on the countryside ... lessons have been learned.

      Orange & Free hooked up our area, then my telco called me, a techy came to hook me up and I was sent the EPON module ...

      For fun I have grabbed my 56k modem from the attic and placed it under the TV, my router is hidden behind the TV. My project ? Put a pi in it as a NAS ... and try to fool people that I still have prehistric internet speeds capable of playing 4K Netflix ... ;-)

      1. jason 7

        Re: Dont give the contract to...

        You know...I wouldn't bother. Fun idea but it might be a while before anyone technically able would notice.

        The rest won't get the joke.

  2. Roj Blake Silver badge

    Really?

    Do people actually believe anything that the Tories say they'll do to help them?

    1. Kez

      Re: Really?

      Do people actually believe anything that politicians* say they'll do to help them?

      *FTFY

      1. Hans 1
        Coat

        Re: Really?

        Well, while you are of course tight, one must stress that only Tories lie each and every time they utter something.

        1. Wincerind

          Re: Really?

          you're missing the point that Labour also lie to themselves, not just everyone else.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Really?

      yes, people are THAT stupid to believe - as the other commentard said - politicians in general. People don't learn from experience (or perhaps are just resigned to the fact that ALL politician lie, particularly before elections). Moi, cynical? Never! :(

      1. Zog_but_not_the_first
        Unhappy

        Re: Really?

        Yep. I blame those who support them. They're the Universal Soldiers voters and they really are to blame.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Really?

      >Do people actually believe anything that the Tories say they'll do to help them?

      Cynic. It's all about optimism - any government that can crack fusion reactors for £200 million, will certainly have no problem with full fibre for everyone.

    4. macjules

      Re: Really?

      Now steady on there. Her Majesty says that what Boris is saying is true so we must believe it. Of course, Boris also says that the Duke of Edinburgh is perfectly fit to drive as well.

      1. Wincerind

        Re: Really?

        I'd hazard a guess that the Duke of Edinburgh is still a better driver than some folks on the road today.

    5. Adrian 4

      Re: Really?

      So can we assume that a date for the gigabit-fibre-everywhere will now be set in concrete and promises such as 'I'd rather be dead in a ditch' made that it will be kept ?

    6. TheVogon

      Re: Really?

      Wasn't it the Conservatives that introduced and repeatedly raised the minimum wage? And finally reformed the unsustainable socialist benefits system? Tax payers are fed up with subsidising the life style of the working classes.

      1. Rich 11

        Re: Really?

        Wasn't it the Conservatives that introduced and repeatedly raised the minimum wage?

        No, it wasn't. The minimum wage was introduced in 1998, with the Tories voting against it and screaming that it would be the death of business. When virtually no effect was seen on business or inflation (except for more people having more money to spend, which is usually good for business rather than most of it staying in the hands of the few, who tend to squirrel it away offshore or buy another luxury yacht), the Tories confined themselves to voting against minimum wage increases. Consequently it fell behind what was considered to be a living wage and was topped up by working tax credits. When the Tories finally got into power they realised they had to raise the minimum wage to be able to cut the social security bill, so they made a song and dance about wanting to pay the living wage and finally stopped complaining about the minimum wage being increased. Miraculously, though, the minimum wage has stayed about a pound an hour behind the living wage for the last nine years.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Really?

          I suppose you're ignoring the fact that the personal tax allowance has almost doubled since 2010. Thus reducing the Tax burden for vast swathes of low paid. About £1200 a year better off now compared to 2010.

  3. jmch Silver badge
    WTF?

    Hmmm...

    "The government has spent £1.8bn bringing superfast broadband to over 96 per cent of the country"

    For what value of "superfast"??

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hmmm...

      " "The government has spent £1.8bn bringing superfast broadband to over 96 per cent of the country"

      For what value of "superfast"?? "

      For what interpretation of 96% ???

      1. Nick Kew

        Re: Hmmm...

        You need to read today's "Who, Me?" for the explanation of 96%.

      2. macjules

        Re: Hmmm...

        For what value of "government"?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Meh

          Re: Hmmm...

          Isn't it traditionally $0.02?

          1. TheVogon

            Re: Hmmm...

            I think you mean £0.02

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: For what value of "superfast"?? "

        I'm pretty sure that - broadband wise - a few years back "infinity" was only eight, so allowing for a bit of inflation I expect that "superfast" probably means it'll get slower :-)

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    gigabit-capable

    plain English: "up to..."

    p.s. with Christmas coming early, I presume it's election time, so any (bullshit) goes?

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Re: gigabit-capable

      Full fibber broadband.

    2. veti Silver badge

      Re: gigabit-capable

      The only weasel word required is "capable".

      A carrier pigeon can deliver a gigabit. There might be a degree of latency, but still.

  5. jmch Silver badge

    Always???

    "the government's priority "has always been to secure the United Kingdom's departure from the European Union on 31 October"."

    ALWAYS???

    The aim of the government elected at the last elections, actually, was to exit on 29th March.

    Then when that didn't happen, it was for either 12th April or 1st June

    When THAT didn't happen, they asked for an extension until 30th June. Since the EU could see what a clusterfuck this was from many miles away, this was then granted to 31st October, because it was clear to everyone outside of Westminster that a solution by the end of June was impossible and even 31st October was a 'Hail Mary'.

    If "the government" in that phrase refers to the month-old BoJo 'government', using 'always' is a bit of a stretch anyway.

    Whatever BoJo says, there is no legal basis for a 'No Deal' exit (it has, in fact, been specifically rejected by parliament). Anything more to the Brexiteers' side of May's exit plan will never cut it with the EU, and anything more to the Remainers' side of May's exit plan would never pass parliament either. However much one tries to wrangle this one way or another, there is no way this is going to be resolved without, at the very least, another general election. Depending on electoral pledges of the eventual winning parties, another referendum might or might not be required.

    The British public is still very largely split about Brexit, not to mention that the most strongly 'Remain' party is the weakest of the 'big 3' and Labour seems both ambiguous about Brexit and just slightly less of a shambles as the Tories. So even in the event of a GE it's highly probably that there still won't be much clarity in the election results to have a clear mandate either way.

    Whatever the political situation it seems that legally speaking, Britain might be stuck in a legal limbo for quite a few months, or even years.

    1. H in The Hague

      Re: Always???

      "Britain might be stuck in a legal limbo for quite a few months, or even years."

      Yup, just as well that the general election triggered by May gave us a strong and stable government :)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Coat

        Re: Door

        Was the stable the problem, or was it just that the horse (sorry, pig-botherer) had already bolted?

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Door

          >Whatever BoJo says, there is no legal basis for a 'No Deal' exit

          But he alone pulled the sword from the Gove as was prophesied on the side of a bus

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Always???

      > Whatever BoJo says, there is no legal basis for a 'No Deal' exit

      And, as has been explained time and time again, no-one wants a no-deal Brexit, and certainly not BoJo.

      Use some logic, why would anyone want it? The whole idea behind Brexit is to be able to make new deals with trading partners, which includes the EU.

      No-deal was never a long-term plan, even if we leave with no deal the first thing that has to be done is negotiate a deal. The question for the EU is whether they prefer to negotiate before we leave, or after. Before is better for everyone, after was the fallback in case the EU refused to agree a reasonable deal (as they have done so far). At least BoJo's antics have, as intended, given Barnier & co a kick up their collective ass and concentrated their minds on finding an acceptable deal before 31/10, which there seems to be some slim hope of happening.

      1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: Always???

        even if we leave with no deal the first thing that has to be done is negotiate a deal

        Fundamentalist brexiteer zealots believe we should have deals with everyone and anyone - America in particular - but a deal with the EU is entirely unnecessary.

        "The EU is going to implode/explode/collapse/disintegrate in a few years anyway", though they were saying that over three years ago; masters of wishful thinking and delusion that they are. Besides; "they need us more than we need them".

        So; fill the channel tunnel with concrete, erect fortifications around the south and east coasts, and we can have a glorious new future without the EU. As Churchill said, "oh yes, oh yes, oh yes". Huzzah!

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Always???

          but a deal with the EU is entirely unnecessary.

          Only a blinkered remainer could actually think anyone would believe that. The EU is a major tradng partner, and even we fundamentalist Brexiteers know that a deal with the EU is essential. The important thing is that it be a deal that works for both sides, not just for the EU.

          1. Richard 12 Silver badge

            Re: Always???

            I see at least a hundred Brexiteers saying exactly that every single day.

            Tens of them on this very site. It's strange that you don't seem to have seen them.

            The EU is doing what they must, what they are legally and morally required to do: Protect the members of the EU from all and sundry. The UK is the one leaving, the UK is the one who inflicted all this upon themselves and the world.

            The EU are not going to throw Ireland under a bus. They're the member state, not the UK

            1. veti Silver badge

              Re: Always???

              You see tens of them on this very site?

              Should be trivial to post half a dozen links, then. Please do.

      2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

        Re: Always???

        >no-one wants a no-deal Brexit, and certainly not BoJo.

        Are you sure?

        If he wants to continue as a long term prime minister - no

        If he wants to become a very well paid Fox News "journalist" with a future career bemoaning how everything has gone wrong because they didn't follow his plan.

        Being fired from the Mirror hasn't exactly been bad for Pier Morgan's bank account

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Academics

        People like Rees-Mogg who are positioning themselves to profit off a no-deal exit?

        1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

          Re: Academics

          Don't worry I'm sure people like Rees-Mogg will manage to profit whatever happens

          1. jason 7

            Re: Academics

            Exactly.

            If (more likely when) Brexit is cancelled the FTSE will go through the roof. If all those with money have been buying low (the past 18 months) then they are set to make a killing.

            They can then display faux outrage and put out a book but still walk away a few hundred million richer.

            Mission accomplished.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Holmes

          Re: Academics

          For the hedge funds, it's the journey that's profitable. As sentiment - and asset prices - swing wildly, they cash in (or of course lose money if they get it wrong). What they want most is what we've had - prolonged uncertainty.

      4. jmch Silver badge

        Re: Always???

        "...in case the EU refused to agree a reasonable deal..."

        reasonable to whom?

        The UK's position so far has been that it has to have full control of it's borders (hard border everywhere), but that it does not want a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland, and it also does not want a hard border across the Irish Sea since that would mean different treatment of NI than the rest of UK.

        All of this is based on some fantasy that it is even possible, let alone achievable, to have a "virtual" hard Irish border that will physically continue to operate in the current borderless state. As technologists, we on this site should know that whatever bullshit is spouted by Westminster and Brussels, there is exactly zero chance of this ever being successfully implemented in any of our lifetimes.

        So who's being unreasonable?

        1. TheVogon

          Re: Always???

          The UK would be quite happy with a hard border between Northern and Southern Ireland but the exiating agreements with the Feniens makes that politically tricky.

          Much better to leave the EU with no deal and have Southern Ireland be forced to implement a hard border by the EU and have it be someone else's problem.

    3. Cuddles

      Re: Always???

      We have always been at war with Eastasia.

    4. TheVogon

      Re: Always???

      "there is no legal basis for a 'No Deal' exit'

      You clearly don't understand the situation. The UK already invoked article 50. The default position is that we leave with no deal on Oct 31st. No further legislation is required for that to happen.

      And as any EU extension requires unanimous EU agreement from the other 27 states, that's not likely to stop it.

  6. batfink
    Mushroom

    nationwide gigabit-capable broadband

    Fuck off. The shitty bit of copper between my place and the cabinet is "gigabit-capable" - if you add the right gear at both ends.

    So is a wet piece of string, in the right circumstances (although tbf only proven to 3.5Mbps so far IIRC).

    So theoretically it's "job done" for my place already.

    These meaningless statements from politicians really piss me off. Tell us what you're actually committing to deliver, rather than soundbites.

    </rant>

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: nationwide gigabit-capable broadband

      Once BT is renationalised as part of the GPO everyone will have equal access to "gigabit" (specifically 0.0000000300 gigabit) speeds

    2. tfewster
      Facepalm

      Re: nationwide gigabit-capable broadband

      > people can "reap the huge benefits of the fastest, most secure and most resilient internet connections"

      Fast maybe. Secure, no, if the government is banning encryption. Is fibre inherently more resilient? The strand of copper (or aluminium) from my house to the pole is 40 years old and has gone from supporting 33kbps to over a thousand times that, the problems always seem to be the backbone or the exchange...

      1. Hans 1
        Windows

        Re: nationwide gigabit-capable broadband

        Well, copper has it limits ... you should know that, right ?

    3. dave 81

      Another nail in the coffin

      "These meaningless statements from politicians really piss me off. "

      That is everything any politician ever says.

  7. Spamfast
    Facepalm

    Eh?!

    Amending the Building Act 1984 so that Building Regulations require all new build developments to have the infrastructure to support gigabit-capable connections.

    Meanwhile they drag their feet on amending the regulations to require sustainable building materials & methods, proper insulation and provision for thermal & photovoltaic roof panels and sub-surface heat exchangers that would make the new owners' domestic fuel bills and carbon footprint virtually non-existent.

    Not to mention all the new office blocks going up still awash with bog standard glass everywhere and collosal air-con & heating energy costs as a result.

    Why the fusk do I need gigabit per sec Internet in a domestic property anyway? A fifty meg connection can support at least six hi-def video streams with ease when all the family members are hiding from one another in their respective fortresses of solitude.

  8. Tom Chiverton 1

    What's the point of "downloading a HD film in 45 seconds" ?

    Nobody* does this anymore - streaming only requires 2-4 meg per-HD stream (no, you don't need uHD unless you TV is 60inches or so).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      My NAS with several thousand HD and UHD remuxes on downloaded from the internet begs to differ.

  9. alexandria

    As I understand it, BT had a plan in the 1980s to roll out fiber-to-home-to-exchange nationwide. Unfortunately, the Tories (namely, Thatcher), decided that Privitization would help everyone get a better deal, so they privitized the contract (as opposed to the previous state of affairs, where BT owned the entirety of the network). We now have a situation where people who have the money and ability to subscribe to Virgin, have fiber to home (and in Virgin-territories (ha!), to exchange, as well), meanwhile everyone else gets p*$s all. Another glorious example of capitalism, from our General Secretary, Money.

    1. Lee D Silver badge

      Privatise the end-consumer bit.

      Nationalise the core-infrastructure bit that they have to use but aren't willing to pay for.

      National Grid vs energy companies.

      4G licenced infrastructure vs telecoms companies

      and so on...

      It's really easy, but politicians of all colours only ever act in personal interest. You nationalise the part that nobody wants to do, nobody wants to pay for, but which has to be done, then you force them to use it, and blanket-set the prices for everyone so that they are funding the rural installs as well as the profitable cities.

      But then you don't have people paying billions for useless 4G licences that they never use to the full effect, can never pay back in any reasonable time, and which are multiple tiny competing slivers of spectrum rather than one big national allocation.

    2. TheVogon

      You are misinformed. Virgin have almost zero fibre to the home. They are almost completely FTTC based.

  10. Ptol

    the american cable TV companies blocked us getting fibre 25 years ago....

    Yes, and the only reason why we need legislation to get fast broadband is because a previous Tory government prevented BT from rolling out nation wide in the name of competition.

    Well, said competition cherry picked the most profitable areas, then they all merged into one company and used their cable monopoly to do just enough to be competitive against BT, but didnt have to try that hard because they had got laws written restricting the services that BT were allowed to deliver.

    1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

      Re: the american cable TV companies blocked us getting fibre 25 years ago....

      Well, said competition cherry picked the most profitable areas, then they all merged into one company and used their cable monopoly to do just enough to be competitive against BT, but didnt have to try that hard because they had got laws written restricting the services that BT were allowed to deliver.

      Yup, it's been one of those chicken & egg scenarios. BT previously restricted from offering TV/'cable' services to support the cable franchises.. Now known (mostly) as Virgin. For many people, the main benefit of 'gigabit' broadband is to access TV services that aren't carried on Virgin.

      Previously cable companies got funding from both subscriptions and charging content providers carriage fees for their channels. Then along came Netflix and disrupted that market by offering an OTT service outside 'cable' using plain'ol Internet capacity.. And now that market is fragmenting with individual content companies (ie Disney etc) announcing their own streaming channels. Which means multiple subscriptions & possibly clients for users, and no clear revenue stream from content supply other than charging for Internet access.

  11. phuzz Silver badge
    Facepalm

    Um what?

    "bring in a points-based immigration system"

    We've had this since 2010, (for example).

    The current system only covers people from outside the EEA, and presumably this legislation expands it to cover the EU, but it's disingenuous to suggest that this is is some way a new system.

    1. TheVogon

      Re: Um what?

      You missed the "like Australia" part. So presumably we will now ship our illegal immigrants and asylum seekers to a remote island until their case is decided.

      I hear that Grunnard island is available!

  12. Tempest
    Unhappy

    Another Tory Wet Dream

    They've done little so far so why should Britain expect more?

    Politicians ... fraud artists and liars.

  13. john heyes

    Gigabit broadband

    So Tories are going to provide EVERYONE with this are they? Sometime in the foreseeable?

    Good luck with that- I currently have live in rural Spain and guess what - gigabit fibre optic already here.....

  14. crg the new one

    Gigabit? That's history

    Poor countries in Eastern Europe had 1Gbps 10 years ago, not in some spots but everywhere in any city, on GBP 9 per month. With no government investment but simply due to competition, something that doesn't exist and will never exist here in the UK

  15. martinusher Silver badge

    Its all Unicorns and Rainbows anyway

    Expecting HM Government -- especially a Conservative one -- to do anything outside a narrow window that benefits them or their mates (sponsors?) is a mass delusion that flies in the face of common sense and history. Governments promise everything before an election but once power is secured then its business as usual. There are exceptions to the rule but any time a government proposes doing anything truly useful -- such as using the revenue from North Sea Oil to finance a systematic program of investment in UK industry and technology -- it gets taken out pretty quickly. My late mother described it to her children in terms like "The British Electorate Have Short Memories" (being a Cockney she expressed this type of sentiment using somewhat different terminology....).

    What it all boils down to is that anyone who believes Boris and his cabal will deliver anything that doesn't make someone a killing is deluded. You'll get Gigabit broadband (or healthcare or transport or any other social good) only if it turns a handsome profit. It has always been this way and while there were some who recognized back in the 20th century that its neither efficient nor globally competitive to run a society like this their efforts were stunted and subsequently privatized.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    norwegian style

    We could have had a Pot norwegian styly from North sea oil.

    And the east got their great broadband from the much maligned infrastructure Fund of the EU. much easier when you are starting with a clean slate.

    Also Baris has been given the nod about 5g , that is where the fast, superfast, Lightronic brodband may be coming from.. punt up a few big aerials and jobs a good-un.

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