Pushing Verify in Brexit plans more about saving troubled project The Government Digital Service's troubled identity system Verify has been at the heart of a controversial plan to supposedly track users online in the run-up to Brexit. However, its unlikely role in Brexit preparations may be more about GDS finding an excuse to save the moribund platform than anything more sinister. Prior to …
The best possible experience would be that they do what they have to, as easily and efficiently as possible, and nothing more. As I read about this over the weekend, the plan sounded like a cynically conceived idea to turn government services into a sort of nationalised Facebook + Cambridge Analytica gathering oodles of tracking data, so that politically tinged "targeted messaging" could then be flung at individual voters, sorry, citizens. My impression is that (a) this is probably what will happen and (b) it will probably be effective, with all the dismal consequnces that will then follow.
(a) this is probably what will happenIt will be delivered 5 years late having tripled the budget and (b) it will probably be effectiveonly 50% of original functionality will be present.
FTFY.
The project is right on track for a Big Government IT vanity project too politically connected to be canned.
> The best possible experience would be that they do what they have to, as easily and efficiently as possible, and nothing more.
Exactly this. You don't give a better experience by locking information away behind Verify.
Even when you're talking about services that actually require some form of log in (say doing taxes), a significant improvement to the service is *not* having to use Verify.
And that's before those in charge seem to have decided to use it for creepy tracking.
Given that we'll still have our implementation of GDPR in place (at least for a while) following no-deal, if we do leave, I'm going to laugh very, very, very hard if someone brings a GDPR action against the government for this *after* we've left the EU.
The one thing that will get brexiteers frothing at the mouth more than not getting their brexit is having to give their "number" to some "petty functionary" so just raise the prospect, get them diverted and slip through a not really brexit whilst they're not looking. Bit of a Johnson moonwalk (which is going backwards whilst looking like you're going forward).
By law and under fixed-penality threat, everyone in France must have their identity card and/or proof of right of residence (passport or residence card) on their person available for spot-check, and probable cause is unnecessary.
I see this as an incorrigible intrusion into private life and so choose to ignore the rule, knowing that as a white male my risk of a fine and/or getting locked up until I prove my right to residence is small.
However, I know second- and third-generation French nationals that have received fines.
The same in Spain in theory but in summer most people wear shorts and a teeshirt withe flip flops, maybe have enough money for a beer, otherwise the only thing they are carrying is a pack of cigarettes.
A police friend of mine had the idea of electronic dog tags so that everyone could wear their ID around their neck.
I told told him STFU,
In Spain you can just quote your ID number and they can get the info and give you a half-hearted talking to about not leaving the house without your ID card knowing that everyone at the beach does just that.
As it's the same number which follows you around from 14 (at the latest) till you die everyone can parrot it off, it's not like Germany which does something sane and gives you a new number every time you renew your card. Changing the ID number if you've suffered identity theft is not supported by the system, which is not very clever, but I guess they're still working out how to cope with every business under the sun asking for it even though they strictly shouldn't. Spanish passports used to also just have the ID number too but that changed to a passport number which changed after every renewal.
@xyz
"The one thing that will get brexiteers frothing at the mouth more than not getting their brexit is having to give their "number" to some "petty functionary""
Probably. Thats possibly something to do with not having to prove we are not Jewish (nazi's) or that we belong to the wrong group (USSR). Instead working on the basis that the state exists at the pleasure of the people not the people exist at the pleasure of the state.
Not that you would see that with our EU membership and the transformation of our government under the EU.
"slip through a not really brexit whilst they're not looking"
Governments who have behaved exactly like that.
Instead working on the basis that the state exists at the pleasure of the people not the people exist at the pleasure of the state.
Windrush and the Home Office says you're wrong.
They have no way to prove what group they belong to and until a few years ago no need so really that's the maximum expression of what you say, yet that very excuse is used to by the state to say they must leave because they can't prove they're British. 50 years of work and pension apparently don't count.
EU citizens are also being wrongly categorised as pre-settled status instead of settled status, and EU children in care are not being allowed to apply for any status. This will also blow up a few years from now.
We can't run a residency database to save our lives or give people a simple way of knowing and showing that the state recognises their rights. But, hey, we're better than the rest, right?
@Dan 55
"But, hey, we're better than the rest, right?"
Yup. Or do you want to be accosted and expected to present your state mandated license to exist? And yes recently the gov clamped down to excess while before them a gov opened the floodgates and caused huge problems the other way. Both seemingly due to the freedom of movement
@Dan 55
"What on Earth does wrongly harassing, detaining, and deporting British citizens to the Caribbean after half a century of living in the UK have to with EU freedom of movement?"
And why are they now clamping down tightly on immigration after a previous gov screwed our border controls? Go on.... you can do it.... take 1, add 1, go on you can do it!!!!
Not that you would see that with our EU membership and the transformation of our government under the EU.
I think you'll find 'Heil Majestys Home Office' needs no help from the EU or anyone* (and would certainly be able to get on with the task of creating a Police State without constant interference from the ECHR).
* Although probably peering over Chinas shoulder during exams.
@Teiwaz
"I think you'll find 'Heil Majestys Home Office' needs no help from the EU or anyone"
True. That war on terror has done wonders for the 'policing' community. But then the European arrest warrant is a bit like that. Didnt Germany recently get in trouble for their political influence over the courts and banned from issuing such warrants for a while? The west in general seems to be taking a worrying direction with 'policing'
And the rest. Read them and weep :(
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Prisoner
Reporter: How will you handle your campaign?
Number Six: No comment.
Reporter: "Intends to fight for freedom at all costs."
Photographer: Smile
Reporter: How about your internal policy?
Number Six: No comment.
Reporter: "Will tighten up on Village security."
Photographer: Smile!
Reporter: What about your external policy?
Number Six: No comment.
Reporter: "Our exports will operate in every corner of the globe." How do you feel about life and death?
Number Six: Mind your own business.
Reporter: "No comment."
"This from a man who thinks that the UK will be ready to exit the EU on Oct 31st*"
I am not sure its about being ready. Its the damned fact that if we dont get out now we will never get out because of the undemocratic idiots determined to screw the thing up and then cry 'oh its got problems'. At least if we get out the idiots will have nothing to do but pick their belly button fluff or get on with life. Brexit wont be there for them to screw around with.
There is no reason we should not have had some preparation before the referendum or result. Nor that the last 3 years were wasted by remain politicians. Yes little children will march and scream and have a tantrum but they lost the democratic vote (3 times now). We are beyond the first leave date and idiots want another extension so they can try to get another vote or just scrap brexit. The children are leaving little choice.
"undemocratic idiots ... idiots ... little children ... idiots ... children"
Oh do fuck off.
If the leave campaign had not been based on racist, xenophobic and anti-EU lies, if the entire leave campaign had not simply been an exercise in bait and switch, if it had been an honestly won vote, had leavers not turned to denigrating the half of the country which voted to remain, who stood up for democratic process, British law and the British constitution, calling them traitors, enemies of the people, and worse, with the more rabid calling for their deaths and eradication, things may have been somewhat better than they are, there may have been some "loser's consent".
Instead, cunts like you have done all you can to divide and polarise this country and have driven it into the gutter.
Remember; you brought the coming nightmare on us all.
Even some of the pro-Brexit press are beginning to speculate that quenching BoJo's aspirations by revoking Article 50 - even if it is temporary - is a conceivable, and not necessarily unpalatable possibility now.
Look at what the Lib Dems have promised - they have become an anti-Brexit party discarding all else. The policies announced by the Lib Dems grab attention but lack any real substance or costing - almost the polar opposite of what they have tried in the past when they wanted to be a serious political party with well thought out policies.
They maybe the saviour we need, but I'm not sure they're the saviour we hoped for.
Well when the alternatives on the menu are -
Dog Shit
Cat Shit
Monkey Shit
I'll take an order of Lib Dem thanks. Cancel Brexit (and see the biggest surge to the UK economy in decades, so the likes of Rees Moog/Banks etc. will still make a pile of cash as was their plan all along) and then worry about where we go from there. At least we won't be carrying on our current course for the plughole.
Nor that the last 3 years were wasted by remain politicians
Delusional
The Last 3 years were pissed up against the wall by the various Pro-Brexit factions fighting over varied 'red lines'.
From May who's no more remain than Boris is (RE: recent Cameron accusations of current PM picking position for career reasons), there was taking the same deal repeatedly to Brussels with a few wording changes and trying to pass it off as new (and it seems Boris thinks this will work this time because it'll be his cheeky boyish grin selling it). To the ERG group enjoying a little leverage and pounding the backbences and the DUP holding the government over a barrel for much the same reason of suddenly they're relevant.
It's become a more typical pro brexit excuse - failure to deliver means they must be a remainer rather than just piss-poor at negotiation blind to presenting an agreement again and again that the other side is not willing to accept.
All the time bleeting over a referendum that was (badly organised) so many years ago now and barely crapped by a 50/50 split as if it was a popular vote in favour.
Yeah the delusion is so strong in the Pro Brexit camp. I said to a very pro Brexit person I know "Oh Brexit won't happen by the 31st!"
He turned and said most assuredly "Oh it HAS to happen by the 31st! No question!"
I said "Okay £10 I say it won't happen on the 31st! There will be another extension. Easy £10 for you!"
He looked concerned, his eye twitched and wouldn't take the bet.
They know damn well deep down it's all a crock. It's only some stupid miss-placed pride that keeps this shit show aloft.
I even texted him a week ago to up it to £20. Still won't take it.
Holding all the cards eh?
"From May who's no more remain than Boris is (RE: recent Cameron accusations of current PM picking position for career reasons)"
I would be careful with Cameron's allegations - they fit Cameron's mea culpa of "he was responsible for the referendum, it was the right thing to do and it was only those bad guys Gove and BoJo lying that meant Remain lost"
That doesn't necessarily mean that Cameron's statement is true. Given the current environment and Cameron's PR abilities, it may also be a convenient scapegoat while the media are anti-Boris and less critical of Cameron for Cameron to distance himself further from the less he created.
Cameron should be taken to court over all this. He got scared, caved in to the likes of Paper tiger Farage and a few bitchy Tories and in doing so split a nation in two and led it on a path of irreparable damage and social upheaval.
It was massively stupid and irresponsible. Once Brexit has been dropped there needs to be a full criminal inquiry. However, I can imagine a lot of folks flying out to non-extradition countries with their hidden off-shore accounts once Article 50 is cancelled.
I've asked a lot of folks that voted Leave why they did it. 7 times out of 10 the response is -
"Well I'm not bothered about the EU or all that. I just wanted to give Cameron and the Govt a punch on the nose. Didn't expect Leave to win!"
Setting aside all the IT angles, one of the most interesting aspects of this story (or non-story) is that it tells us something about the finely-tuned political ear, alert to every nuance and sensitivity across the broad electorate, that the current government possess. I'm guessing they keep it in a cardboard box at the back of the No.10 garden shed, behind that cobwebby box containing a little plastic gizmo that was supposed to revolutionise lawn care but never really worked and under the rusty hoes and rakes that might do for another season or two. I thought Theresa May had a political tin ear, but the Johnson crew make hem look like a swiss watch of an operation. Any halfwit in the street could have explained how terribly badly any such idea would go down, and how even putting it out there risked longer term loss of confidence / increase in general level of paranoia about government mass surveillance, the internet, etc.
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