back to article We're not going Huawei even if you ban our 5G kit, Chinese firm tells UK

Huawei has reportedly boasted that it will continue investing in the UK even if the British government U-turns on allowing the Chinese company to supply critical 5G mobile network equipment. Speaking to Sky News, Victor Zhang, Huawei president of global government affairs, said the business will still flog its wares to Britons …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Will be interesting to see how the U.K. navigates...

    I think the situation boils down to this: Got to keep Donald happy; would prefer not to make the Chinese too unhappy. That’s diplomacy for you. Then there’s the business end. No one wants to buy from Ericsson, Alcatel and NSN when the Chinese equipment will do the same job (perhaps better) for less. Google doesn’t want to lose Chinese hardware partners*. My guess? One or two of the networks will just happen not to buy Chinese equipment, and all government, military, spy business and so on will go to those networks.

    * Who give Google access to some of the fastest growing markets on the planet, pretty much for free.

    1. Will Godfrey Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: Will be interesting to see how the U.K. navigates...

      "One or two of the networks will just happen not to buy Chinese equipment, and all government, military, spy business and so on will go to those networks."

      ... and as a result will not be slurped by China.

      Ummm, just the rest of the world.

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Will be interesting to see how the U.K. navigates...

      Trump the Chump doesn't care, as his recent remarks about Hong Kong and his delight at another love letter from Kim Jon Eun make only too clear. Import taxes, and that's all tariffs are, are about the only consistent part of his policy and without them the US deficit would be ballooning even more. But not they're really creating jobs, as figures from the steel industry show.

      Nobody wants just a single supplier: Huawei has done some work of its own, but that's not to say that Ericsson or NSN kit is rubbish.

  2. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge

    Two unicorns and a rainbow please

    "I believe that the UK government will make the right decision based on the facts and evidence."

    I, on the other hand, would imagine that desperately wanting a trade deal with the US will greatly influence UK decision making.

    1. Commswonk

      Re: Two unicorns and a rainbow please

      ...desperately wanting a trade deal with the US will greatly influence UK decision making

      And not for the better IMHO.

      From a logical perspective if an acceptable deal with the EU can only be had by leaving "no deal" on the table, desperately wanting a trade deal with the US is unlikely to result in a decent outcome for the UK, at least from the voters' viewpoint.

      We're Doomed...

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Two unicorns and a rainbow please

      I, on the other hand, would imagine that desperately wanting a trade deal with the US will greatly influence UK decision making.

      All the recent noises are just photo ops. The situation for the US vis-à-vis UK trade hasn't changed that much over the last few years and any deal required congressional approval. US-China and US-EU trade dwarf US-UK trade and the only "deal" currently on offer is "accept anything according to US standards", which could easily put UK farmers out of business.

    3. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Re: US trade Deal

      Will mean us being made to take their Chlorinated Chicken and Hormone laden meat.

      Not for me it won't.

      I'll carry on buying my meat from the farmer.

      Trumpton and his pals can suck on this [see icon]

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: US trade Deal

        “Will mean us being made to take their Chlorinated Chicken and Hormone laden meat.”

        And doubtless swell the the ranks of the (plastic) jackbooted stormtroopers of vegetarianism (aka vegans). Anyone who doesn’t want US meat will certainly not want US dairy*.

        * I occasionally struggle to find plain old milk, fortified with nowt, when in the US.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Facepalm

          Re: US trade Deal

          One thing that astounded me about US food, was the absolute state of what they call "bread".

          Why the hell they felt the need to add "high fructose corn syrup" to the ingredients of a loaf, I'll never know. Horrible stuff.

          1. EBG

            uh ?

            .. have you looked on the ingredients list of UK supermarket bread recently ? Plam oil is the latest addition.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: uh ?

              ".. have you looked on the ingredients list of UK supermarket bread recently ? Plam oil is the latest addition."

              Is that a direct replacement for Palm oil?

      2. IWVC

        Re: US trade Deal

        Yes a point many anti US standards commentators have missed. We may have to accept the stuff but WE DON'T HAVE TO ACTUALLY BUY IT or eat it. Market forces etc.

        1. DavCrav

          Re: US trade Deal

          "Yes a point many anti US standards commentators have missed. We may have to accept the stuff but WE DON'T HAVE TO ACTUALLY BUY IT or eat it. Market forces etc."

          1) Poor people will, because it will be much cheaper. And then as UK farms go to the wall, the remaining ones get successively more expensive until there's nothing left.

          2) As the poster below says, the US will want some kind of ISDS here and there would be rules against labelling the chicken as 'not US badly treated horror-chicken'.

          The one saving grace of No Deal Brexit is that Congress has stated that there will be no US trade deal. I don't want one with the US, as it will be terrible for the UK.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: US trade Deal

            Re: Market forces

            That won't end well: https://www.cpre.org.uk/what-we-do/farming-and-food/farming/the-issues

        2. katrinab Silver badge

          Re: US trade Deal

          That's assuming you know what you are buying. One of the requirements will be that retailers won't be allowed to label it as such.

      3. Nick Kew

        Re: US trade Deal

        Unless you buy literally from the farmer, that could become less easy. 'Merkin negotiators are going to want to prevent any unfair restraint of trade. Which means that for example if a US importer saw a labeling scheme (let's call it "Red Tractor") as prejudicial to their product, they could sue and expect to win.

        That is, if a trade deal happens. Latest talk is of piecemeal deals: if those exclude agribusiness it could just possibly be a realistic prospect (and potentially even remain compatible with keeping that Irish border open - it's smuggling of US food&agri-stuff that the EU absolutely needs to guard against before rather than after deaths in Dublin and further afield are traced to smuggled hormoneburgers). But can Trump defy agribusiness and do any deal that excludes them (or holds them to higher standards)? Neither Obama nor Bush could, which is why we don't already have a huge US-EU trade deal.

        1. Giovani Tapini

          Re: US trade Deal

          I never knew you could buy Merkins from farmers... Whatever next....!?!

          1. Cederic Silver badge

            Re: US trade Deal

            Not for 154 years, legally speaking.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: US trade Deal

          The reason that agribusiness is being excluded is because the US knows it can get a much better deal for itself once the UK farming and fishing industries ares on their knees, begging for someone to buy their products.

          https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/15/half-of-uk-farms-could-fail-after-no-deal-brexit-report-warns

  3. This post has been deleted by its author

  4. Yes Me Silver badge
  5. Milton

    Storm clouds

    It would be good to be wrong about this, but it seems to me that a major crisis is brewing, of which the Huawei affair is just one of the clouds gathering on the horizon. The Huawei debate is just part of a larger awakening in the west, as it realises that China—or more specifically, its autocratic regime—is becoming existentially dangerous to our freedoms and way of life.

    While it's true that Trump's unhinged stupidity has contributed to the sense of crisis, particularly by enabling terrible behaviour by other leaders, he alone can't take the blame for this: all American presidents, past, present and future, are going to have to face up to some extremely worrying facts.

    China has a murderous, autocratic, ruthless, repressive and downright nasty regime. Considering its behaviour, it is at least as evil as the Soviet Union was alleged to be. It has a vast economy which may eventually be the largest in the world. It has a huge population, an army to match, and is engaging in a rapid build-up of military strength both in numbers and advancing technology. This is paralleled by unprecedented expansionism and even some military adventurism. Militarily, without the corruption of a US Congress and pork politics to worry about, it has made much shrewder investment and procurement decisions than any large western country. (For example, despite knowing everything about F-35, China has chosen to avoid replicating such a useless boondoggle and is investing instead in anti-stealth measures, and less ambitious, longer-ranged, more heavily armed, more manoeuverable fighters which, if they get within visual range of an F-35, will kill it in a dogfight nine times out of ten. China fancies having a carrier or two, which they'll use similarly to the US, i.e. for dick-waggling and in places where a competent foe cannot reach them, ideally to blow up rusty $200 pickup trucks in warm places using $1m missiles. Perhaps they'll be handy at keeping Third World debtors in line. But they know that carriers, in a serious war, have a very brief life expectancy, and are ensuring this is particularly true of American ones by developing a large arsenal of carrier-killer weapons, just like the Russians. If you can buy 1,000 supersonic manoeuvering missiles and/or supercavitating torpedoes for the price of a carrier, how many need to get through to become a cost-effective choice? The smart money says between three and five missiles; and potentially a single torpedo, if it disables the props/rudder, for a "mission kill".)

    So you have a rival intent on securing domination, growing more powerful by the day, unable to change its regime into anything resembling basic human decency—when autocrats fall, they die: you ride the tiger, then it eats you—which, unrestrained, will quite obviously one day crush you and your democracy and enslave your people.

    What are you gonna do?

    Considering China, and to a lesser extent Russia, the Trumpified infantilisation of world politics (i.e. the children have taken over the playgroup: look at how nuclear flashpoints are stoked by people like Modi over Kashmir), the likelihood of major economic turmoil exacerbated by climate and refugee crises, it seems to me that a major war is becoming a possibility—perhaps even a probability.

    A horrifying prospect, especially consdering the presence of nukes, but sooner or later you have to make a choice: fight for your freedom—or learn to suck Chinese dick at gunpoint.

    This isn't a criticism of Chinese people, mind: it's their government that's foul. Unfortunately, they won't get rid of it.

    Which won't happen because Trump thinks that F-35 is "invisible" and anyway, who needs to dogfight when you've got missiles? I wonder which part of the F-4's humiliation over Vietnam they have forgotten about? Puh-leese.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Storm clouds

      "China has a murderous, autocratic, ruthless, repressive and downright nasty regime. Considering its behaviour, it is at least as evil as the Soviet Union was alleged to be."

      The Soviet Union, unlike modern China, wasn't terribly good at encouraging private business, generating economic growth and lifting people out of poverty. If we're going to equate the present Chinese government with Mao's Cultural Revolution, that's just plain silly. Like equating today's South Korea with the previous military dictatorship, or a Brexiter writing about the "EUSSR".

      China hasn't really gone in for expansionist wars. Tibet has been disputed territory for a long time. It hasn't tried to enforce régime change in countries thousands of miles distant, like, say, Russia, Vietnam, Iran, Iraq or Libya. It hasn't interfered in elections in the UK, Russia, Ukraine or Venezuela. It has treated very badly a Muslim group in its territory that is rather smaller than the number of Muslims bombed by the US in recent years. China has also been extensively invaded by Japan, and foreigners have taken over limited parts of its territory, such as Hong Kong, Shanghai and Taiwan. They do have a certain right to be suspicious of foreigners.

      As a result I remain much less worried about what China may do than about what the US (and Trump) may do to try to hold on to world domination.

      China seems to have a simple strategy; efficient trade with the rest of the world will lift the last billion out of poverty. The main influence on Chinese governments still seems to be Kung Fu-Tse rather than Mao, and among his precepts are:

      In the Spring and the Autumn there are no righteous wars (it actually means there had been no just wars in all of Chinese history)

      and

      Deal with the woes of the people if you would sit calmly on your throne.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Storm clouds

      Better dead than red eh?

      Where have I heard that before?

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    oh I dont think so

    I'm pretty close to the action.

    Huawei are laying off staff all over the place in the UK. They are very much on the way out here, and for all of us who dont work for them, seeya, dont let the base station hit you on the way out. You wont be missed.

  7. Xenobyte

    Rubbish!

    "Parliament's Intelligence and Security Committee said excluding Huawei from the UK's 5G network buildout would "lower security standards". "

    No, INcluding Huawei would lower security standards.

    The Chinese state is pushing far too hard to get Huawei in for it to be simply business. There's a hidden agenda involving Huawei devices that's for sure.

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