back to article Tesla's autonomous lane changing software is worse at driving than humans, and more

Hello, here's a quick roundup of recent machine learning tidbits that you can digest after the long weekend. UK’s first legal hearing over facial recognition: One man is taking on South Wales Police for violating his privacy after he claimed his face was scanned with facial recognition cameras without explicit permission. The …

  1. petur
    Meh

    Incomplete

    Jake Fisher later wrote that this conclusion was misinterpreted.

    Carefully omitted by El Reg.

    Why not have a complete and honest article?

    1. Starace
      Alert

      Re: Incomplete

      Well we could have the details of how recent versions are worse than older versions, mention the specific recent version numbers that Tesla owners are loudly complaining about, and have the videos of the system failing to operate correctly including lane tracking failure, swerving and braking for false detections and driving into solid objects like lane dividers and other vehicles

      That would be complete and honest.

      It's a very poor attempt at a Level 2 system and if you can't trust it to function then it's worse than a toy.

      Also worth mentioning that in markets where vehicles are ECE regulation compliant the system is basically disabled by a recent update due to limits introduced on things like rate of turn and other items for autonomous operation.

      1. petur

        Re: Incomplete

        https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-navigate-on-autopilot-consumer-reports-review-clarified/

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Incomplete

          Yet, there are countless Tesla droids out there claiming that not only will their car appreciate in value but they will be earning $100K per year from it when all those million robo taxi's hit the streets.

          Man, these people are smoking some serious shit.

          1. Aquilus

            Re: Incomplete

            But Musk tweeted there would be robotaxis by 2020! That's only 7 months away. Surely he wasn't lying?

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              I believe Musk Implicitly (on days without a 'y' in the name)

              Still called Autopilot?

              Still a bloody lie.

              1. vtcodger Silver badge

                Re: I believe Musk Implicitly (on days without a 'y' in the name)

                * Automatic? -- Yep

                * Drives (pilots) the car? -- Yep

                * Effective and safe? -- Well ..Errr ...

                But, what the heck. Two of Three ain't bad. Right?

            2. steviebuk Silver badge

              Re: Incomplete

              Will they be called Johnny Cabs?

        2. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

          Re: Incomplete

          So I read this link, it really does not refute Consumer Report's complaints. It is:

          1) Clarifies that it is them reviewing being able to turn off lane change confirmation, and have it do it itself, not re-reviewing the entire car. (Honestly this is obvious, given that the whole article doesn't mention drivetrain, ride, handling, range, etc. etc. etc. that a car review would, JUST the autodrive.)

          2) A bunch of Tesla fanbois thinking owners should have been consulted etc. CR does not consult owners to decide how to review a vehicle, they do their own review and go over objective data.

          There's a good reason CR goes for raw data and not owner reviews -- if someone has a shiny new product, and the product producer is some prestige brand and/or providers good customer support, owners will swear up and down the product is flawless, make excuses for flaws, etc. no matter the real product behavior. Apple used to be big on this, some Macs "back in the day" had ridiculous design flaws, but customer support would swear up and down they'd never heard of that problem before, and replace the faulty units. So, the owner would swear up and down they never had a problem. Conversely, others will have an item that is average or slightly below average reliability but swear up and down it's a horrible lemon when it's not great but not as bad as it could be. In short owners can not be objective about the product they own.

      2. Lord Elpuss Silver badge

        Re: Incomplete

        "It's a very poor attempt at a Level 2 system"

        It's a solid attempt at a Level 2 system, and the CR report didn't disagree with this. Go back and read the actual CR article, rather than those written by parasitic hangers-on who can't be bothered to do their own research and just (inaccurately) paraphrase.

        1. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge

          Re: Incomplete

          "It's a solid attempt at a Level 2 system"

          Solid Attempt At is not necessarily equal to Successful Achievement Of

          1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
            Unhappy

            Re: Incomplete

            If at first you don't succeed, then scrape the dead customer off the road and try try again.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Incomplete

              > If at first you don't succeed, then scrape the dead customer off the road and try try again.

              It's OK to kill the customers, it's their mistake, its when you kill other road users that the shit will really hit the fan.

              1. vtcodger Silver badge

                Re: Incomplete

                "It's OK to kill the customers,"

                Only if they paid cash up front. If it's a lease vehicle, then you have a bent and probably blood stained car to deal with. (I wonder if they have different, less aggressive, software for leased vehicles?)

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: Incomplete

                  > I wonder if they have different, less aggressive, software for leased vehicles?

                  & I thought I was a cynical bastard, I salute you Sir.

              2. pop_corn

                Re: Incomplete

                > "its when you kill other road users that the shit will really hit the fan"

                Tesla's will always kill other road users, as will all self driving type cars. As long as they kill fewer road users than humans (approx 5 per DAY in the UK!), that's an improvement.

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Incomplete

              Hey Bert, this dead customer has gone all hard and solid.

              OK Jim, I'll be over soon to make an attempt to remove it.

              Solid attempt

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Autopilot is itself Incomplete

      A Tesla spokesperson said: “Navigate on Autopilot is based on map data, fleet data, and data from the vehicle’s sensors. However, it is still crap and will be for years to come."

      TIFIFY

      1. Commswonk

        Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

        From the article A Tesla spokesperson retaliated and said: “Navigate on Autopilot is based on map data, fleet data, and data from the vehicle’s sensors. However, it is the driver’s responsibility to remain in control of the car at all times, including safely executing lane changes.”

        A better example of trying to weasel out of any responsibility it would be hard to find.

        Tesla is selling cars with supposedly fancy electronics badged as "driver assist" or somesuch, but attempting to divest itself of any blame if anything doesn't work as it should or as is expected. Has Elon Musk been given a Get Out of Jail Free card in respect of product liability laws? Another Ralph Nader is needed - desperately.

        Who in their right mind would buy a Tesla after reading a slopey - shoulder statement like that?

        1. Killfalcon Silver badge

          Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

          Someone should tell Elon that all we want is giant flashing arrows that tell us a turn is coming up. None of this "in ONE hundred MetErs turn left" stuff, give me what Playstation has made standard: neon floaty arrows.

          I don't want my car to lull me into a false sense of security by driving for me when nothing is actually wrong. I want it to warn me of roadworks, idiots in the wrong lane, and missile locks. Is that so much to ask?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

            "I don't want my car to lull me into a false sense of security by driving for me when nothing is actually wrong. I want it to warn me of roadworks, idiots in the wrong lane, and missile locks. Is that so much to ask?"

            Missile Locks ...... Easy

            Roadworks ........ Easy..ish

            Idiots in the wrong lane ......... Not so Easy ..... all the time.

            So in a nutshell, yes it is too much to ask !!!

            It is much easier to ask for your money back as it does not appear to do the job it was advertised to do !!!

        2. vtcodger Silver badge

          Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

          Do keep in mind that this is part of a $5000US package that Tesla owners paid for months or years ago. Do you expect the Tesla operation to refund the money because what they promised turns out to be hard to do? Of course not. This looks to be much the same as a lot of other modern technology. Do the best you can. Ship it. Blame the user when it doesn't work very well.

          1. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

            Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

            [QUOTE]Do keep in mind that this is part of a $5000US package that Tesla owners paid for months or years ago. Do you expect the Tesla operation to refund the money because what they promised turns out to be hard to do? Of course not.[/QUOTE]

            Reminded me, a few years ago here in the US some Fords were recalled for cruise control fires. (How it could be designed to possilby catch fire when the vehicle is parked and off is beyond me... but OK...) People took their vehicles to the dealer for this recall, only to find the "solution" come up with was to REMOVE the cruise control! At least if Tesla ends up disabling this thing, it can be done over the air so the owners won't have to drive it into a dealer for the privilege. 8-)

            1. Kiwi
              Trollface

              Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

              so the owners won't have to drive it into a dealer

              I don't think the customer would need to do that anyway.

              I mean, these things are clearly very well practised at driving into trucks, other road users, stationary objects and the like so why should their stealers be any different?

        3. Doctor Evil

          Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

          "Who in their right mind would buy a Tesla after reading a slopey - shoulder statement like that?"

          Someone who wants a nice EV with great range between charges. Just don't use the Autopilot feature ... it's not mandatory! (Plus, hopefully they'll get it right someday and send you an over-the-air update.)

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

            No idea why someone downvoted you for that. I''ve lost count of the number of otherwise good products I have with at least one shitty feature that doesn't work properly. Standard practice to use the features that work and ignore the ones that don't.

            Don't hold your breath about them getting autopilot right though.

          2. Kiwi

            Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

            "Who in their right mind would buy a Tesla after reading a slopey - shoulder statement like that?"

            Someone who wants a nice EV with great range between charges.

            Elsewhere in this thread I linked to a YT video I watched overnight of someone driving a Tesla.

            One of the very first things I noticed (or rather confirmed as I believed it to be the case) was the lack of tactile environment and audio controls. All of those are moved to this massive screen in the middle of the rather ugly console (so there goes my belief that Tesla's are aesthetically designed - unless the person doing the "look and feel" was an escaped mental patient!).

            This is a very bad thing because it means that to change temperature, or to change volume on the radio I have to look away from the road and visually hunt on a screen for said controls, even if their location doesn't change much (or at all) depending on what is shown.

            Further, this is a HUGE amount of light in the cab. At night that would be an issue for many drivers as it would reduce their night visiion even when they're not actually looking at it. But to look at it for a few seconds to turn the fan on then back to the road is going to mean any night-vision you had is lost while your eyes recover from the furious blast of light.

            Why would someone in their right mind willingly purchase such a dangerous vehicle? I'm sure if I was a prosecutor I could build a case that simply driving one of these things was grounds for a "careless driving" charge, as any decent prudent driver would avoid them like the plague they are!

            (Now if there's tactile controls on the steering for environment etc that's at least a little better, especially if the screen can be made to turn off).

            1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

              Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

              Agreed. Unfortunately Tesla isn't the only manufacturer that's going this route.

              I currently have a 2015 Volvo, and I suspect I'll never buy a newer one, having seen how many of the physical controls have gone away in my wife's 2018 model. Touchscreens for drivers are an imbecilic idea.

              I rented a Hyundai Santa Fe once (you take what you can get at the airport rental agencies), and the idiotainment screen in it didn't dim with the instrument lights, either automatically when it got dark or using the manual instrument-light dimmer control. It was extremely distracting and irritating to drive that thing at night.

              1. Kiwi
                Pint

                Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

                the idiotainment screen in it didn't dim with the instrument lights, either automatically when it got dark or using the manual instrument-light dimmer control.

                Ouch! I feel your pain. I do struggle with light at night, and try to reduce as much in the cab as I can. It'd seem logical to reduce the screen brightness when someone wants to turn the instrument lights down - by doing that they're indicating they want less light!

                Thanks for sharing. I'm getting scared I may have to change my policy of running a car until it doesn't make economic sense to do so, and finding whatever old cars I can just to keep from this.

                or invest in some glue and black padding.

        4. Kiwi
          Coat

          Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

          "...including safely executing lane changes.”...

          Dammit! Now I just got a pesky Russian ear bug!

          <Russian Accent>"In Mother Tesla, car executes you"</Russian Accent>

      2. vtcodger Silver badge

        Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

        Bad/inadequate software is nothing new. It's been around ever since computers started interfacing with people. And it'll probably be around for centuries into the future. Writing non-buggy software is really hard.

        But this is stuff that can kill or seriously injure people and not just people who own Teslas. The rest of us have to share the road with Teslae and their mates. IMHO, NHTSA and its equivalents elsewhere should seriously consider banning ALL computer assisted driving technologies until they have passed rigorous, independent, safety tests.

        (And let me add that over the air updates are a REALLY BAD idea for safety related features. As Microsoft demonstrates with great regularity, continuous "improvement" is very hard to test. It may not be a big deal if the user interface to the GPS or FM radio changes without warning. But for safety related stuff, getting things right is IMPORTANT.)

        1. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

          Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

          Please hold human drivers to the same rigorous standards, and permanently ban any that make one stupid mistake. What do you mean, "does that include you?"

          1. Commswonk

            Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

            What do you mean, "does that include you?"

            I am not for one moment trying to excuse bad drivers; they should be held to account for their mistakes particularly if damage or injury (or worse) is the outcome.

            However I do not see why a driver should be held to account for a mistake made by the hardware / software built into the vehicle. If a manufacturer provides me (at my cost) with facilities that are supposed to make my life easier (for want of a better description) then if those facilities fail and they make my or other peoples' lives worse then it should be the manufacturer, not me, that should be held accountable.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

              "then it should be the manufacturer, not me, that should be held accountable."

              To be fair, it should be *both* but to differing degrees.

              The manufacturer is responsible *if* they provide facilities that do not work as sold.

              BUT

              The driver is also responsible for the car at all times and after all the 'Press' about the 'Autopilot' that does not work I would expect the driver to be very wary of the claims for the 'Autopilot' and therefore would have tested the usefullness/effectiveness of the facilities provided *before* attempting to trust them in a potentially dangerous situation.

              This would mean that *if* the facilities were to be used and fail it would be either 'Very Bad Luck' or gross negligence on the part of the driver trusting a system that has not been proven to work previously.

              There is *NO* get out clause for trusting something that has been proven not to work *or* has not been at least nominally tested (in a safe/safer environment) for effectiveness before use !!!

              This is totally in line with the expectation that *you* as the driver test/check all the essential/mandatory safety features of your car before driving off, as part of your checks before using a vehicle on the public road.

              (In the UK this is highlighted as part of the training you receive when preparing for your Driving Test(s).)

              1. vtcodger Silver badge

                Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

                The driver is also responsible for the car at all times and after all the 'Press' about the 'Autopilot' that does not work I would expect the driver to be very wary of the claims for the 'Autopilot' and therefore would have tested the usefulness/effectiveness of the facilities provided *before* attempting to trust them in a potentially dangerous situation.

                Yes, OK, Sure. But one thing that bothers me every time Tesla assures me that everything that goes wrong is ultimately the driver's fault. Some hazardous situations are forseeable, detectable, and easy for the driver to avoid. Yeah, he or she probably should do that, although I wonder why he/she needs an occasionally incompetent digital assistant if constant situational awareness is needed anyway? But some problems are not so easy to foresee. How do I know that my autopilot is about to cut off that nice lady with the car full of toddlers and puppies, or isn't going to proceed down the clearly marked lane having developed an unhealthy affection for that bridge abutment up ahead?

                Could it be that the basic problem the Tesla drivers have with autopilot is getting behind the wheel of a Tesla instead of a Toyota or Ford?

              2. Kiwi
                Pint

                Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

                The driver is also responsible for the car at all times and after all the 'Press' about the 'Autopilot' that does not work I would expect the driver to be very wary of the claims for the 'Autopilot' and therefore would have tested the usefullness/effectiveness of the facilities provided *before* attempting to trust them in a potentially dangerous situation.

                1) I paid a truckload of money for this car. I brought it because it is a status symbol and Musk, well he is just like, you know, a god, and can do no wrong. My very expensive car that proves I am better than you has all sorts of fancy features. Mr Musk (may his reign endure forever) would not allow me to spend my money on such a car if it was even slightly faulty.

                2) All the media about how 'bad" these cars are is just fake news, as Mr Trump so rightly tells us. It is just a conspiracy by jealous wannabes who aren't worthy of having a Tesla. If there was really any problem with the car Elon himself would personally come round and refund my money.

                3) My car has lots of lights that tell me if things are wrong. None of those lights are on, therefore everything must be working fine.

                4) Duh, it's called auto pilot - that means it must be able to drive itself automatically. You're just jelly because you're not good enough to own a Tesla!

                (too sarcastic:didn't read)

                Most people would assume features on their car were tested by the manufacturer and perhaps other bodies, and were thus fully safe for use. Most car adverts here talk about how ANCAP(?) or other bods have tested the car and given it a '5 star safety rating". Given our safety and consumer laws, I would expect something I purchase be safe to use in its designed fashion (experience tells me to be wary of course)

                Most people these days don't follow the press nearly as much as people used to in the past, and those who do would seldom see any news about Tesla failures. Those who wish to own a Tesla or anything else would likely be subject to 'confirmation bias' where they'd only see the positive press, and if any negative press did reach their conciousness it'd be flagged as "fake", or "old version" or "owner error nothing wrong with the car". Or maybe "billions of miles on AP without incident".

                Few people give their vehicles proper checks before and during trips. Hell, in these very forums I've been called a bad driver for actually going into an empty parking lot and doing things like emergency stopping/swerving practice! I don't always give my vehicle a full check every trip, but before I am on a major road I've tested the brakes and engine response. I also make sure my brake lights are working before I leave the driveway (looking in the mirror for the light on the wall behind the car). Most cars have at least one "single point of failure" subject to wear and tear - the brake light switch on the pedal. I think one model of Ford I saw had 2 switches in parallel, but odds are good if one failed a) it wouldn't be noticed and b) the other would fail very soon afer.

          2. Peter2 Silver badge

            Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

            I'd actually be ok with holding autopilot to the same standards as a human. Just give it points for every infraction, and it gets banned (from operation in every car) when it exceeds the limit. If the car is modded to use it despite being disabled then the person operating the vehicle gets done for driving without a license.

            Of course, humans have fatal accidents that kills the driver and that terminates the license resulting in no further prosecution, so you'd need to prosecute the driverless car for fatal accidents where we don't bother at the moment for obvious reasons. But in general I think i'd be quite happy with that arrangement as so long as there is a sensible arrangement to prevent companies from just incrementing the version number to get around the ban once they kill enough people.

        2. cream wobbly

          Re: Autopilot is itself Incomplete

          <quote>Writing non-buggy software is really hard. But this is stuff that can kill or seriously injure people ... </quote>

          Quite. A couple of years back, World + Dog was debating the Trolley Problem. Now it seems they were way ahead of themselves. The more basic function of "driving without hitting other things" has to be overcome before we can even get to the old Trolley Problem.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "performed worse than human drivers when trying to change lanes automatically"

    "Law enforcement representatives who spoke to Consumer Reports said the software cut off other cars without giving them enough space and sped past cars in ways that “violate state laws”.

    So, where's worse than most humans? Here even using turn signals when changing lane became a relic of the past - and you really need to antiicipate what the moron you're approaching will do - especially if he's looking into mobe instead the rear mirror.

    Probably turn signals should be made an expensive optional that shows your status, so people would proudly turn them on.... or maybe every time you use them you should get a like on your social profile...

    1. Korev Silver badge
      Joke

      Re: "performed worse than human drivers when trying to change lanes automatically"

      Law enforcement representatives who spoke to Consumer Reports said the software cut off other cars without giving them enough space and sped past cars in ways that “violate state laws”.

      Sounds like they've trained their models on BMW and Audi drivers

      1. Flywheel

        Re: "performed worse than human drivers when trying to change lanes automatically"

        Tut! You beat me to it!

      2. Piro Silver badge

        Re: "performed worse than human drivers when trying to change lanes automatically"

        Wait, why did you tag this as a joke?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "performed worse than human drivers when trying to change lanes automatically"

      I think they meant "worse than non-sociopathic human drivers".

    3. Mongrel

      Re: "performed worse than human drivers when trying to change lanes automatically"

      Probably turn signals should be made an expensive optional that shows your status, so people would proudly turn them on.... or maybe every time you use them you should get a like on your social profile...

      The M25 method uses the indicators (turn signals) as a declarative, aka The blink & move. Blink the indicators once then move lane, you indicated therefore anything that happens is everyone else's problem.

      1. joeW

        Re: "performed worse than human drivers when trying to change lanes automatically"

        Best employed by timing the single blink to when your car is already half-way into the lane you wish to switch to.

      2. Christoph

        Re: "performed worse than human drivers when trying to change lanes automatically"

        "The M25 method uses the indicators (turn signals) as a declarative, aka The blink & move. "

        On the M25, if you signal in plenty of time that you are going to move into the outside lane as soon as the gap gets to you, the last car before the gap will hang back and block you.

        However if you are in the fast lane and are the first car after a gap, the car in the middle lane will wait through the gap until the last possible moment before suddenly moving out, forcing you to brake. The next car in the middle lane will then wait until you have built up speed again and are moving forward before doing the same trick and making you brake again. Sometimes a third car will do it again, in each case having plenty of time to move out but waiting until you are about to pass them.

        Why yes, I did use to commute on the M25.

    4. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

      Re: "performed worse than human drivers when trying to change lanes automatically"

      At the weekend I got overtaken by a Tesla, on the inside, and he then ran out of road, and had to use the bus lane to gain enough distance so he could pull into the correct lane.

      Reading this article I guess I could be charitable and blame the autopilot.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Oh go on

        Oh go on - blame the ar****le driving it - please!

    5. seven of five

      Re: "performed worse than human drivers when trying to change lanes automatically"

      Works on par with the lane keeping "assistant" I had the misfortune to experience on a rental Ford lately:

      Would not let you return to your lane after overtaking even when using the indicator. Otoh, using indicators seems to be an open provocation to other drivers. Or using any lane other than the middle lane at all - I whish we were allowed to overtake on either side. Then again - I´d better be careful what I wish for...

      I whish I still was young, back then I had an 8x8. Its thirst only surpassed by its lack of speed. But it did get there, for any value of "there". Wife didn´t like it, claimed it to be "unwieldly".

      1. LewisRage

        Re: "performed worse than human drivers when trying to change lanes automatically"

        I whish you would learn to spell wish.

      2. werdsmith Silver badge

        Re: "performed worse than human drivers when trying to change lanes automatically"

        Would not let you return to your lane after overtaking even when using the indicator.

        Something wrong with that then. Lane assistance gives up immediately if you counter torque it with the steering.

    6. Sorry that handle is already taken. Silver badge

      Re: "performed worse than human drivers when trying to change lanes automatically"

      Sounds like it was benchmarked against Canberra drivers

      1. Spanners Silver badge
        Go

        Re: "performed worse than human drivers when trying to change lanes automatically"

        ...Canberra drivers

        A beautiful aircraft,

    7. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

      Re: "performed worse than human drivers when trying to change lanes automatically"

      [QUOTE]

      So, where's worse than most humans? Here even using turn signals when changing lane became a relic of the past [/QUOTE]

      Here too, but I lay on my horn then. As far as I am concerned, flipping on a turn signal and changing lanes is changing lanes; otherwise you are just swerving and veering from lane to lane.

  3. jmch Silver badge

    “if drivers hold the steering wheel, break, or flick the turn-signal stalk on and off”

    I know drivers can get road rage, but going as far as to break the turn signal stalk might be too much ;)

    1. Korev Silver badge
      Joke

      Tiredness kills, taking breaks saves lives

      Only slightly in jest -->

  4. Rich 11

    "It is the driver’s responsibility to remain in control of the car at all times"

    "And definitely not our fault when the car piles into an overpass column."

  5. Timmy B

    I dind't read the article

    But I can say for certain that noting is as bad as driving as some of the numpties I see on the road....

    1. Kubla Cant
      Headmaster

      Re: I dind't read the article

      And I can say for certain that nothing is as bad as the typing of some of the numpties I see on the Reg.

  6. Nosher

    Data Protection in photos?

    I've long been curious about assertions that images can be covered by data protection legislation when what we see is only ever a run-time interpretation of the actual data stored in the image file. By which I mean, if you were to open up a JPEG in a text editor, there's absolutely nothing in the actual data which could ever be connected to any individual, or indeed anything recognisable at all. So isn't what we see in an image only ever our brain's understanding of this visual representation, and if so - how is that a data-protection issue?

    By the way, this doesn't mean that I disagree with the bloke taking on South Wales Police for its blanket face slurping!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Data Protection in photos?

      @Nosher

      You do realize that 'Data' is not restricted to ASCII characters...? Right?

    2. aelfric

      Re: Data Protection in photos?

      I think you are missing the point about facial recognition...

      But FWIW an image, at the very least, puts a person in a certain place and at a certain time.

    3. activereachmax
      Big Brother

      Re: Data Protection in photos?

      An image of a face - perhaps a passport photo, mugshot, or snap of someone throwing a bottle captured by CCTV (IMG1) is analysed by software to create a (hopefully unique) identifier. If another image of a face (IMG2) is captured by a different camera, and analysed by the same software (or one using the same method of analysis), an attempt can be made to associate IMG1 and IMG2 and, if the unique identifier seems the same, assert "This is the same face and that belongs to this person who is wanted for [terrorism/kiddiefiddling/vandalism/taxevasion/beingblackinabuiltuparea...]."

      That process can be automated - it doesn't rely on human eyes or interpretation.

      Unfortunately, with the current state of this technology is not accurate. It's wrong more often than right. It also seems to be worse with individuals of certain racial facial features.

      So when a nice police officer or three rushes up to you at a football match, and starts asking questions about crimes you know nothing about, or expressing suspicion, or wanting to search you - that may be the result of automated decision-making based on your personal information - which is at the heart of data protection. Isn't it?

      If it starts to happen again and again - not only could it get tiresome very quickly, but it might be because "they all look the same" to the AI based on its training data.

      1. Toltec

        Re: Data Protection in photos?

        On the other hand if you have been burgled and have the culprit's face on CCTV Id guess you would be quite happy if the police could identify and find the person.

        1. Killfalcon Silver badge

          Re: Data Protection in photos?

          Only if they find the right person!

          Imagine finding out that someone spent a few years in a box because of a police mistake - and the perp who *did* rob your house was still free?

  7. I.Geller Bronze badge

    AI technology for Tesla

    Structured into synonymous clusters a text becomes (in some way) a program where each pattern becomes a direct analogue of the programming language command.

    For example, the following paragraph:

    -- Tesla and Waymo are coming. They go fast.

    In this section, five patterns:

    - Tesla is coming.

    - Waymo is coming.

    - Tesla goes fast.

    - Waymo goes fast.

    - They go fast.

    These patterns form three synonymous clusters. For example one of them:

    -- Tesla is coming.

    -- Tesla goes fast.

    Then the pattern "Tesla goes fast" is assigned a certain mechanical action, such as the acceleration of the car. That is, speaking of the application of NLP technology and textual search, we are talking about finding commands for AI car. This is the technology!

    1. I.Geller Bronze badge

      The Allen Institute for Artificial Intelligence

      Speaking about the Allen Institute for Artificial Intelligence:

      "Vector search makes it easier to search by concept rather than keyword. For example, if a user types in “How tall is the tower in Paris?” Bing can return a natural language result telling the user the Eiffel Tower is 1,063 feet, even though the word “Eiffel” never appeared in the search query and the word “tall” never appears in the result.

      Microsoft uses vector search for its own Bing search engine, and the technology is helping Bing better understand the intent behind billions of web searches and find the most relevant result among billions of web pages."

      That is, Microsoft uses the same technology looking for answers in its Bing system that Waymo already uses. This is my patented 10 years ago technology that kills SQL technology, kills Google, FB and Oracle businesses.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The Allen Institute

        ai ai,

        Exclamation of bad things to come, in Dutch.

        1. I.Geller Bronze badge

          Re: The Allen Institute

          If you mean me? I knew what I was doing, there was no one to blame.

          It seems anyone who touches Bible should be prepared for martyrdom. I had no choice: the theory of External Relations of Analytical Philosophy was created by atheists, on the basis of ancient Greek polytheism. SQL came from that school.

          I rely on the denial of SQL, by creating AI I should come to Bible and its monotheism. Now I'm suffering, in the best Biblical traditions.

          1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
            Coat

            Re: The Allen Institute

            As they say on Broopkidren 13 "The other Shaltanac's joopleberry shrub is always a more mauvy shade of pinky-russet."

            (doffs hat to the late, great Douglas Adams).

            I'll get me coat. Give my regards to amanfrommars

            1. I.Geller Bronze badge

              Re: The Allen Institute

              18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: AI technology for Tesla

      @Ilya "Actually, I patented Artificial Intelligence."

      You're going to spend the rest of your life in court, attempting to defend this portfolio of what seem to be overly-broad patents.

      1. I.Geller Bronze badge

        Re: AI technology for Tesla

        Yep, I will. See no alternative.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: AI technology for Tesla

          The "overly-broad" implies that you'll most often lose in court, and you'll end up bankrupted and bitter. Any residual valuable concept won't be touched with a barge pole until the patent has expired.

          There are no people on Earth less happy than those with a portfolio of overly-broad patents, unless the larger enterprise includes an industrial complex stamping out product (e.g. Dyson is probably happy).

          1. I.Geller Bronze badge

            Re: AI technology for Tesla

            You have no idea how right you are and how much I share your point of view. For example, I have long been bankrupt, and the only reason why I continue the struggle... is Bible, the recognition of Bible in American court as the foundation for Internal theory of Analytic Philosophy and Artificial Intelligence. I'd do absolutely anything for that! Hopefully I'll finally come to the Supreme Court and get it there.

            1. This post has been deleted by its author

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: AI technology for Tesla

              > For example, I have long been bankrupt, and the only reason why I continue the struggle... is Bible

              The universe is trying to tell you something.

              Stop.

              Move on to doing something beneficial for humanity instead.

              1. This post has been deleted by its author

          2. I.Geller Bronze badge

            Re: AI technology for Tesla

            There are 8,705 startups and companies listed in Crunchbase today who are relying on machine learning for their main and ancillary applications, products, and services.

            The Machine Learning technology is shown above and impossible without my technology, my synonymous clusters.

            1. I.Geller Bronze badge

              Intellectual Property as the largest enterprise in U.S. history

              Machine learning didn't exist before I discovered (and patented) text structuring/ synonymous clusters. Indeed, machine learning is an artificial intelligence (AI) application that provides systems with the ability to automatically learn and improve based on experience without explicit programming.

              But how is it possible to add one program to another? Programs are hard coded, a part of one program cannot be simply added to another. You can only add the whole program which is already aimed at solving a certain problem, in the results of which you may not be interested. That is, adding one program to another you have to adjust the results, achieving the desired goal - which means a manual intervention and opposes the core idea of Machine Learning.

              But texts - Yes, you can add a contextually and subtextually oriented PART of one text to another, as synonymous clusters derived from paragraphs of the first within their meaning. So these 8.705 companies should use my method of structuring texts and getting synonymous clusters if they really intend to use Machine Learning. Which makes my Intellectual Property the largest enterprise in U.S. history.

    3. I.Geller Bronze badge

      Re: AI technology for Tesla

      One word can multiply the number of clusters and patterns. Worst of all is Dickens, one his paragraph can bring 300 or more synonymous clusters, 10.000 and much more patterns. Slightly better Dostoevsky, but not too much.

      That is, using NLP and AI technology Tesla can get rid of all programmers and use texts as programs. Which already makes Google for Waymo.

  8. smudge

    Tesla test coverage?

    I often wonder how much (if at all) Tesla autodriving has been tested in countries like the UK and Japan - where they drive on the left.

    You might think that of course they'll have done that. But I remember Google Glass, which came only for the right eye.

    1. Steve K
      Joke

      Re: Tesla test coverage?

      Probably simply vertically mirrors the incoming video feeds from the cameras - 1 line of code - job done....;-)

      1. Martin 59

        Re: Tesla test coverage?

        Don't forget to reverse the connector on the steering servo.

        1. Steve K

          Re: Tesla test coverage?

          Whoops! Added to the list for V2.0 - thanks for being a beta tester!

          1. Kernel

            Re: Tesla test coverage?

            "Whoops! Added to the list for V2.0 - thanks for being a beta tester!"

            We hope the wreath arrived - the florist promised they'd get it to the crematorium on time.

            We also extend our condolences to your nearest and dearest.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Mobile?

    Batteries are a bad thing.

    Just in general, and always.

    Hydraulic accumulators, that’s nice!

  10. WilliamBurke
    Stop

    Either it's autonomous or not

    While I am fully in control of everything that goes on in my car, shifting manually between 6 gears, etc. etc., I am sometimes struggling not to doze off. Giving the impression that the car takes care of itself is a surefire way of sending people to sleep. Not to mention that it is an invitation to watch movies, surf the internet or have animated skype discussions. Yeah I'll keep an eye out for the traffic, I promise. The autonomous car will come, but before it is exactly that, including the legal responsibility (1), I'll give it a pass.

    (1) That will also come, believe it or not. From an insurance perspective, its simply a question of probability. Once the computer is a better driver than the AVERAGE customer, they will encourage it. With money. But that will be 20 years from now.

    1. JeffyPoooh
      Pint

      Re: Either it's autonomous or not

      Don't forget to consider the 'Concentration of Liability', and then see how the financial future plays out.

      For example, Boeing is now experiencing the 'Concentration of Liability' from a harmless little system intended to helpfully push the aircraft nose down.

      Someday, Tesla will leave out a hyphen, and it'll cost them a large fortune. Then it'll happen again. And again, because: hubris.

      A billion here and a billion there eventually adds up.

    2. Korev Silver badge

      Re: Either it's autonomous or not

      When I used to commute by car, sometimes I'd arrive in the office and not remember anything about the journey. I can't imagine that was very safe...

      1. tiggity Silver badge

        Re: Either it's autonomous or not

        Quite possibly it was safer - assuming lots of driving experience then "mental autopilot" without conscious control could well give more rapid responses to situations than if the slower conscious decision making layers in control. Obviously assumes your "mental autopilot" can cope with unexpected situations OK

    3. Nolveys

      Re: Either it's autonomous or not

      I am sometimes struggling not to doze off.

      A bag of baby carrots helps with that. For some reason eating seems to cure the sleepies and it's almost impossible to get through a whole bag of carrots in one sitting.

      1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Either it's autonomous or not

        Alternatively, you can have a little helper in the car

        1. I.Geller Bronze badge

          Autonomous

          Tesla can become fully Autonomous using AI technology. Namely, using structured texts. The data of all sensors should be described by texts, structure them into synonymous clusters and use incoming information as searching requests. Then in memory are found structured (into synonymous clusters) patterns which produce the desired actions.

  11. FatGerman

    "However, it is the driver’s responsibility to remain in control of the car at all times, including safely executing lane changes"

    That's like saying "This clock keeps perfect time forever provided you manually synchronise it to a GPS signal once a second".

    Utterly useless. We've gone from cars with one driver to cars with two drivers arguing with other, and the one doing most of the work is a 4 year old whose only driving experience is on Sega Rally. What could possibly go wrong?

    1. Steve K

      Sega Rally

      What could possibly go wrong?

      “Easy right, maybe!”

      “Aaaaaarrrghh!”

  12. spold Silver badge

    Facial Recognition defences...

    Get your Privacy Enhancing Technology or "Brolly" out and hide behind it. It's South Wales so you are probably carrying one anyway...

  13. spold Silver badge

    Realistic technology...

    >>>

    “It’s incredibly nearsighted. It doesn’t appear to react to brake lights or turn signals, it can’t anticipate what other drivers will do, and as a result, you constantly have to be one step ahead of it.”

    <<<

    Sounds like a lot of drivers I come across - should fit in fine.

    Artificial Unintelligence at it's finest - patent it quick! This will provide an excellent realistic common usecase for autonomous vehicle testing to deal with.

  14. Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse

    Crikey. Where has common sense gone...

    I think owning a Tesla is just some really shit and transparent attempt at being able to have bragging rights; I'm not sure why either...

    I have an older car (2013) with several "driver assist" options such as cruise control, lane guidance and front and rear vehicle monitoring. None of which I trust, although 3 out of the 4 are passive and can manually be turned off. I even now have cruise control on my motorcycle which again, I don't trust and am not overly happy using - although it does mean I can rest my wrist on a long journey. My point being that all of these functions still require my full and undivided attention whilst driving or riding.

    So without beating about the bush... my personal opinion is that anyone who buys a Tesla is a sad twat, and anyone who buys one thinking that it is fully autonomous is an even bigger one.

    1. Lee D Silver badge

      Re: Crikey. Where has common sense gone...

      I purchased my first ever car-that's-from-new about three years ago.

      I deliberately specified none of that crap. There were options, way within my affordability, for lane-assist, road-sign assist, auto-cruise-control, etc. etc.

      In my opinion, those things don't belong on a car. If you need them, even for a brief moment, you should have pulled over long ago.

      The basic model, though, comes with a dangerous-by-default config in my opinion. It has cruise control. But that cruise control is not-auto-brake. Hence it will happily accelerate to the set speed, no matter what's in front of it, at the press of the button. But it won't regulate that speed or prevent an accident by stopping before it runs into the back of something.

      Now I know that's "traditional" as such, but it bugs me. Auto-brake is a paid option. Why? It should be the other way around. Especially seeing as "speed limiting" is a built-in default option that can actually operate on a per-key basis (presumably so you can give a key to your kid and it stops them going mad).

      However, I have tested it extensively, and the brakes always override, and the brakes can override the engine, and - being a manual - you can slip it out of gear even if it goes temporarily insane (assuming you react in time). Same as the electronic handbrake switch, which I do not trust and tested extensively before any serious use on the road*. It's placed so that it can be activated by the passenger accidentally, but I couldn't do it accidentally, even "simulating" a bag-strap getting caught - at least, no easier than if it were caught on a manual handbrake.

      I judge people whose choice of car includes such options (except where they are by default, but even then!), and especially those who don't endeavour to disable them or avoid their use by habit.

      *(My forehead still hurts. Seriously, don't mess with those things. Handbrake turns are impossible but for sure I like the way that system brakes independently even with no engine power... it does NOT mess around.)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Crikey. Where has common sense gone...

        I'd say that the adaptive cruise is more dangerous than the vanilla sort because it stops you from hitting the car in front most of the time but not all. These systems by the manufacturers' admissions don't work well on bends or on brows/troughs of hills. Cruise is not there to drive the car for you, it's to save your foot.

      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Crikey. Where has common sense gone...

        "Same as the electronic handbrake switch"

        Oh $deity yes! Horrible, horrible things! I've often wondered how they operate or fail in an electrical failure scenario. Anyone know?

        Luckily, all my company cars have manual handbrakes and I only have to suffer the electic button ones when I get a hire car (fortunately not every time either)

        1. Lee D Silver badge

          Re: Crikey. Where has common sense gone...

          I tried literally everything I could think of to make my electronic handbrake fail. It steadfastly refused to do so. It also deliberately failed to activate inadvertently no matter what I tried. Whoever designed the switch in the new Ford Mondeo's did their job - just a perfect amount of debouncing/whatever to mean that a snap of it doesn't do anything, but a press-and-hold causes you to beep the horn using your forehead and nose. Same for the anti-rollback / auto-hill-start functionality. I can only make it release by doing really stupid things.

          By law, it has to have an entirely dependent activation path. Sometimes that's an entirely independent ECU just for braking, sometimes it's part of the main ECU. Sometimes there's an entirely independent emergency power supply or power reservoir of some kind just for the emergency brakes. There are a lot of ways to do it, and a lot of regulations around it.

          Read this, looking for "parking" in the PDF:

          http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/R13hr2e.pdf

          The paragraph you're probably looking for:

          "In the event of a failure of the energy source of the electric control transmission, starting from the nominal value of the energy level, the full control range of the service braking system shall be guaranteed after twenty consecutive full stroke actuations of the service braking control. During the

          test, the braking control shall be fully applied for 20 seconds and released for 5 seconds on each actuation. It should be understood that during the above test sufficient energy is available in the energy transmission to ensure full actuation of the service braking system."

          What that means is, even in the case of total electrical failure, I should be able to put the brakes on at least 20 times from the handbrake. A large capacitor can do that. It's just a solenoid, after all.

    2. Killfalcon Silver badge

      Re: Crikey. Where has common sense gone...

      I'd say something about voting with one's wallet, sending a signal that electric cars have a market and can we maybe try to not set the planet on fire so much... but you could just buy a Prius or a Leaf or whatever instead, and not have that Musky aroma over everything.

  15. Anonymous South African Coward Bronze badge

    A Tesla spokesperson retaliated and said: “Navigate on Autopilot is based on map data, fleet data, and data from the vehicle’s sensors. However, it is the driver’s responsibility to remain in control of the car at all times, including safely executing lane changes.”

    Try to tell that to the drivers... this reminds me of the autocruise and Winnebago incident.

    Guy in winnebago goes on long road trip. Engages autocruise. Goes to back of winnebago to make coffee. Winnebago leave road and crashes. Guys sues manufacturer and wins. Only in the US of A.

    People will NOT understand the limitations of technology, and will think that nothing will go wrong.

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      "Guy in winnebago goes on long road trip. Engages autocruise. Goes to back of winnebago to make coffee. Winnebago leave road and crashes. Guys sues manufacturer and wins. Only in the US of A."

      Snopes doesn't agree with you on that one. Variations have been doing the rounds for over 40 years and no one seems to have ever managed to corroborate any of the versions.

  16. John Doe 12

    Coming Soon....

    ... the all new Tesla Max 8 where the computer knows best!! Complete with free funeral plan ;-)

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: Coming Soon....

      Don't buy the auto funeral plan. It might make a mistake and accidentally cremate you one day, when the sun interferes with its sensor data...

  17. robin thakur 1

    The problem is the public

    I received a circular from my Audi recently which said something to the effect of quite a few drivers on the roads already think fully self driving cars are on the market and a smaller percentage think they already own one. This stat alone is pretty terrifying! Seriously though, my car has adaptive cruise, lane keeping, traffic jam assist (where it steers, accelerates and brakes) as well as auto parking, and autonomous breaking, but you REALLY need to know the limitations and realise they are assistive only and need driver input at all times. There have been times where it has stopped detecting the road lines to stay between or where it has almost but-not-quite done an emergency brake because somebody waved their foot in the road at a crossing or it didn't like the way I was driving.

    Tesla definitely encourages such thinking in their promo materials. Look on their website and the videos they have of autonomous driving and things like the car disappearing off to park itself or being summoned back to its owner. Can it do this safely or can it not? Why is it being sold if the latter? How much testing of these features is carried out in markets other than America or Germany?

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: The problem is the public

      Oh they're doing lots of testing alright. On (mostly) live customers and other road users.

      Oh sorry, you meant pre-release testing. Well I'm sure they do some of that as well...

      1. Kiwi
        Coat

        Re: The problem is the public

        Oh sorry, you meant pre-release testing. Well I'm sure they do some of that as well...

        I'm sure they did some hands-on QA during the construction process.

        You know, like someone put their hands on the door handle and made sure it seemed to be mounted firmly.

        Anything beyond that costs too much money.

  18. jzl

    I actually own one

    Unlike most of you armchair warriors, I actually own and drive a Model S (with Autopilot 2) on the roads in the UK. I've had it for several years and have driven 30,000 miles.

    Autopilot is actually excellent. Like, in the real world used by me, rather than in some theoretical internet argument. It is *not* a better driver than I am, and that's not really the point. It's a great augmentation. It holds the lane, it never blinks, never gets tired, never gets distracted. I am still driving, still holding the wheel, and still making all the executive decisions. The combined team of Autopilot +human driver is undoubtedly better than human alone.

    And as I said, I'm basing this on my own physical experience with it in real life over thousands of motorway miles.

    1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: I actually own one

      Yes, this single subjective anecdote certainly outweighs all other evidence.

  19. Mike Friedman

    It's always hilarious when someone criticizes Tesla. They never admit a problem. The problem is always the user.

    Clearly this stuff is not ready for prime time. It's certainly not ready for an inexperienced or elderly driver.

  20. steviebuk Silver badge

    So why call it autopilot

    “Navigate on Autopilot is based on map data, fleet data, and data from the vehicle’s sensors. However, it is the driver’s responsibility to remain in control of the car at all times, including safely executing lane changes.”

    Autopilot term is so misleading. Everyone thinks of that as the fly autopilot. They should at least be forced to rename it.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So why call it autopilot

      Autopilot != Autonomous, not even in the sky

      "Everyone thinks of that..." is false declaration, not only because there are certainly people who do not think that way, but because those that do aren't "thinking" as much is mis-remembering.

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge

        Re: So why call it autopilot

        The average man on the Clapham omnibus thinks that "autopilot" is the Hollywood version, complete with inflatable smiling man and optional cigarette.

        Ok, maybe not the last part.

        It doesn't matter that they're wrong. It's what many people buying a Tesla think it is.

        That's why people make porn in the front of a Tesla, why people turn on "Autopilot" and then let it drive them straight into a wall or a truck.

        Aside from that:

        Humand don't react until some time after the automation should have reacted, but didn't. In the air, there's usually still a minute or two to kill the AP, recover the aircraft and change underwear. On the road, that usually means the situation is no longer recoverable at all.

        Aircraft are kept at least an order of magnitude further apart than cars. Cars are two seconds apart in good conditions, but if aircraft get that close to each other or an obstacle it's a near miss incident and reported to the AAIB!

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No hands steering, I even fall asleep

    I catch the bus.

  22. MonsieurTM

    Yet again the get-out-of-jail-free card is played: " the driver must be in control at all times". When will Tesla etc get it in their heads that this is a safer lye critical system with all that implies: insurance, verification, validation, innumerable tests, etc. Simple OTA updates just do not cut it. Consider that when driving a bus, lorry, etc, many countries require more than just a simple drivinf license. On a road I can cause multiple-car crashes and thus major loss of life. Let alone city driving where the system may need to "choose" the least-worat option: kill granny or the school kid, or plough into a bus queue. The latter is utterly untested in law for autonomous vehicles. It is a wooly area legally for humans! How can a system based upon 1st order logic work correctly in our higher-order, messy, human world?

  23. Kiwi
    Devil

    Came across someone else's experience..

    Saw this suggested on YT last night so thought I'd watch it.

    https://youtu.be/sMvdI8nSAJE

    Damn that thing looks SCARY. Looks like the computer is fighting itself - the lane departure prevention fighting the desire to be in that lane, the sudden swerving across 2 lanes to remain on the motorway because it was on exit lanes instead..

    Hopefully the NZ government will ban Tesla's as too dangerous. Enough idiots on the roads as it is!

  24. I.Geller Bronze badge

    As you can see, in 10 years I've barely been able to explain you AI-parsing, which you finally started to use. But this parsing itself does not work and is useless! Look at the idiots from OpenAI? Well, they find phrases, sentences and paragraphs, and? Spending millions searching for them? So what? Nothing. It doesn't work this way, no money in that.

    Now with great difficulty I was able to explain to you the importance of dictionary and what is synonymous clusters. So what? Nothing... You won't be able to use them because they are not the know-how. There are other things.

    You don't understand AI technology, you haven't been to NIST TREC QA. I was. I'm Artificial Intelligence! Without me you all'll be wandering in three pines for another 30 years.

    By protecting the thieves who robbed me -Eric Schmidt, Sergey Brin and Larry Page - you lose AI. Tesla won't have driverless car for many years without me!

  25. bernardo.ortiz

    Unconstrained College Students Dataset:

    In this article the collection of student images was collected and redistributed. This is illegal in California, if not world wide, for violating copyright laws. In California you can take a picture in a public area without permission only for private use. To sell or share with Gov or private institutions (even if non-profit) you must acquire a written model release form from all individuals (and pets) in the scene. All models have the legal right to control how there image is used and a legal right to demand financial compensation. The model release forms were clearly not generated prior to sharing these images. The individuals (or pets) do not need to be professional models to be covered under this law. Don't know if there is a right of privacy issue here, but commercial law, specifically copyright laws, have been violated. Yes, I have run up against this myself (required deletion of images I have taken), both in California and Florida. Do not know if these laws can be applied to traffic cameras, ie speeding tickets by contractors to the government definitely constitute commercial gain.

    1. Kiwi
      Pint

      Re: Unconstrained College Students Dataset:

      This is illegal in California, if not world wide, for violating copyright laws.

      Pretty sure it's not worldwide. AFAIK in NZ you can use pictures taken in public areas without any permissions, otherwise the news media would be in deep trouble PDQ.

      But something I'm interested in looking up more - thanks for the tip.

      (Would also be of interest in the speed camera situation, as the mobile cameras that plague[1] this land are run by private citizens and thus for commercial gain)

      [1] No, they're not a deterrant for bad driving that causes accidents. Speed itself seldom causes accidents (though it can make them worse) - not driving to the conditions, failing to indicate, failing to give way, driving on the wrong part of the road - those are the things that cause accidents. Driving at 105 on a road built for 120 but limited to 80 isn't going to cause a crash. Driving into a stationary object at walking speed is.

    2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

      Re: Unconstrained College Students Dataset:

      To some extent it doesn't matter whether it was legal, despite Boult's appeal to that standard. (From the article: "Boult said taking photos of people in public isn’t illegal".)

      For any accredited US university, this is going to be an IRB (Institutional Review Board) violation. Adding photos of people to a dataset for research purposes is Human Subjects Research, and the IRB will require the PI (Primary Investigator, the chief researcher on the project) get permission from the subjects.

      I've seen people get in trouble with the IRB for doing research on things like forum or email-list messages without releases from the authors, even though those are public texts.

  26. I.Geller Bronze badge

    Try only to ignore this post! Just try!

    The word "fast" can be a noun, as a part of speech:

    I. 1 : the practice of fasting

    2 : a time of fasting

    II. something that fastens (such as a mooring line) or holds a fastening

    And, therefore, in this paragraph:

    -- Tesla and Waymo are coming. They go fast. --

    We may get eight patterns instead of six:

    - Tesla is coming.

    - Waymo is coming.

    - Tesla goes.

    - Waymo goes.

    - They are coming.

    - They go.

    - Fast (a time of fasting goes) is coming.

    - Fast (something that fastens) goes.

    Definitely "a time of fasting goes" and "a time of fasting is coming" doesn't make sense in the context of this paragraph - it's about the cars! Imagine Tesla uses this pattern commanding its car? What the command "a time of fasting go" can mean for Tesla car? Or "something that fastens go"?

    I call such patterns "lexical noise". Thus, it is absolutely necessary to check the parts of speech! There is no other way! And when OpenAI ignores them it leads to the catastrophe - OpenAI cannot separate the "time of fasting" or "something that fastens" from the adjective "fast/quick".

    How to find the true parts of speech?

    I patented this technology. Structured dictionary definitions should be compared with both context and subtext of text from which the patterns originate.

    1. I.Geller Bronze badge

      Just try!

      Or another example, the word "good":

      adjective

      1.to be desired or approved of.

      "a good quality of life"

      2.having the qualities required for a particular role.

      "the schools here are good"

      synonyms: fine, of high quality, of a high standard, quality, superior; More

      noun

      1.that which is morally right; righteousness.

      "a mysterious balance of good and evil"

      synonyms: virtue, righteousness, virtuousness, goodness, morality, ethicalness, uprightness, upstandingness, integrity, principle, dignity, rectitude, rightness; More

      2.benefit or advantage to someone or something.

      "he convinces his father to use his genius for the good of mankind"

      synonyms: benefit, advantage, profit, gain, interest, welfare, well-being, enjoyment, satisfaction, comfort, ease, convenience; More

      adverb

      1.well.

      "my mother could never cook this good"

      And paragraph:

      - Ford, Tesla and Waymo are coming. They're good! --

      If the word "good" is a noun and its article is somehow omitted-skipped - there are 10 patterns.

      If the word "good" is an adjective or adverb - there are only 6 patterns.

      Therefore, without recognizing parts of speech, Tesla can not navigate its cars, because of the abundance of erroneous patterns!

      Tesla must use NLP, making its cars without a driver, because manual coding will cost trillions, but my patented structuring of texts through my AI technology - almost nothing.

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