back to article Russian bots are just for rigging US elections? They hit home, too: Kid stripped of crown in TV contest vote-fix scandal

The winner of a Russian talent show for children has been stripped of her crown following confirmation that software was used to swing a public vote in her favor. There was a national outcry when 11-year-old Mikella Abramova won the top telly talent show The Voice Kids with 56.5 per cent of a public poll, bagging over 30,000 …

  1. David Shaw

    Sad but true that Russia has a corruption problem, always has had, and always will have.

    Nevertheless, a good article, you just missed a couple of related news points; until this voting scandal kicked off, Alsou was supposed to present the results of the Russian jury & people's vote on Saturday's Tel Aviv song-fest for Channel One (UK Katy Boyle's job in the past), I think you can see why Channel One has suspended connections with the glamorous Алсу Рали́фовна Абрамова-Сафина.. . voting, bots, hmmm at least this time there is evidence

    and you missed the trivial fact that not only is she married to an 'illionaire, but Alsou's dad is also an 'illionaire

    1. Kernel

      "Sad but true that Russia has a corruption problem, always has had, and always will have."

      So you're saying this is somehow more reprehensible than a another large country that allows lobbyists paid by large companies to push fat brown envelopes in the general direction of politicians and government officials?

      Yes, communist regimes do have a corruption problem - but at least they do deal with the problem in a significant manner when it becomes a major public issue.

      1. Tomato42

        But, but, but, "You are are lynching Negroes!". /s

        we're talking about Russia, saying "but they do it too" is immature to the point that 6 year olds in a sandpit would call you out on it

        1. Claverhouse Silver badge

          we're talking about Russia, saying "but they do it too" is immature to the point that 6 year olds in a sandpit would call you out on it

          Saying 'I am a Patriot: You are a Spy is far more bankrupt, particularly since it gives one leave to carry on being a scoundrel as one piously rolls one's eyes at foreign miscreants.

        2. DropBear

          No.

          That depends wholly on one's interpretation of where the accent was meant to sit in the OP. If read as "a corruption problem of Russia", you're quite right, who else does what is irrelevant. If read "a corruption problem of Russia" then you're not, and "whataboutism" is irrelevant when asking "why, what about corruption do you think is so specific to Russia?"

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: No.

            @ dropbear

            Oh please just fuck off

            Cheers... Ishy

        3. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Ohhhh, those Russians....

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

          "When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union during the Cold War, the Soviet response would often be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world."

          "But they do it too!" seems a traditional Russian response here....

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Ohhhh, those Russians....

            ""But they do it too!" seems a traditional Russian response here...."

            It also seems to be a common refrain for the US's Republican party, almost like there is a connection of some kind going on here...

      2. The Original Steve
        Stop

        RE: Kernel

        "Yeah, that might be bad but look at what you/those guys are doing!"

        There's a name for that kind of tactic in arguments and debates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism.

        Guess what country has a reputation for using it during these wonderful and modern times?

        1. DCFusor

          Re: RE: Kernel

          Um, all of them?

      3. Alistair
        Windows

        @kernel:

        If you think russia is a communist country, I think you've missed a few years worth of events. Or have a comprehension issue.

        Now, if we take your last line and sed 's/communist/dictatorship/g', it actually scans factually.

      4. disgruntled yank

        Regimes

        In what sense can Russia be said to have a communist regime now?

      5. Muscleguy

        Russia had a corruption problem under the tsars as well, which was the original point. Russia existed for much longer prior to communism than it did under it. If all you know about Russia is 'communism' can I suggest you read some history, or some Russian literature. I'm rather fond of Dostoevsky myself but your mileage may vary. If you have the eyes to see you will find in Chekov as well.

        Ivan the Terrible's moves against the Boyars was for similar reasons.

        Note it wasn't much worse than this country where the well off routinely bought military and naval commissions for their younger spawn. Hence the phrase Lions Led By Donkeys.

        For corruption under communism try Bulgakov's masterpiece The Master And Margarita (it is highly satirical) and Cancer Ward by Solzhenitsyn. My personal copy of the latter is falling apart through repeated rereadings. I think I bought it back in the early '80s. I have a hardback version of the Bulgakov to try and fend off that fate for a bit longer. I reread my Dostoevsky's regularly as well.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Facepalm

      Does someone still think this kind of competitions aren't rigged, worldwide?

      1. katrinab Silver badge

        Usually it is related to betting fraud

        They place a large bet on someone considered very unlikely to win, at very high odds

        Then they make sure that person wins

    3. VulcanV5
      Happy

      Katy Boyle

      Have an upvote for mentioning Katy Boyle. I'll give you another if you can mention Gracie Fields in a later comment on this thread.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Katy Boyle

        I've swum with dolphins but I can't tell you how a grey seal feels.

        1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          Re: Katy Boyle

          I can't tell you how a grey seal feels

          Blubbery.

          HTH, HAND etc.

  2. Gonzo_the_Geek

    So Channel One does not want to hold the kid responsible, but will it hold the kid's parents responsible?

    If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is not very likely to be a dolphin impersonating a duck.

    It's not like rich parents "buying" contest wins for their offspring is unheard of...

    1. sabroni Silver badge
      WTF?

      Duck typing

      You're suggesting that's the way to run a criminal justice system?

    2. Mongrel

      It's not like rich parents "buying" contest wins for their offspring is unheard of...

      It's also not like groups like 4Chan\Anonymous have never done things like this for 'the lulz'.

      1. mintus55

        doing something for the lulz is ok because the participants are not receiving a benefit

      2. Tomato42

        4Chan\Anonymous use either their own resources, or random compromised network resources, no way they would get access to a consecutive phone numbers and only consecutive phone numbers to run the scam

  3. cb7

    Hmm, looks like she still would have won by more than 7 times as many votes as any other contestant even after discounting the 8000 dodgy votes.

    And now the miscreants know how to try and avoid getting spotted, so how exactly will they stop them striking again?

    1. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge
      FAIL

      Well they could start by not registering multiple votes from the same number... 8000 votes from 300 consecutive numbers = 26.67 votes per number.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I'm guessing it's the 0.67 sized votes that gave the game away.

        :)

      2. 's water music

        Well they could start by not registering multiple votes from the same number...

        They would have to avoid the moral hazard inherent in profit sharing in the premium rate text voting that I assume is part of the economics of these shows in Russia as in the rest of the world.

        Far better to just accept that these types of show are light entertainment scripted reality with a similar relationship to truth and competition as pro wrestling and watch them if you enjoy them on that basis or not if you don't. A take-down of the sort of cheating effort alleged is only of any interest in the context of the corrosive impact of similar corruption in wider civil society.

    2. Baldrickk

      I was looking at the same numbers and thinking - stripping her of the win is a bit unfair - she would have won anyway and its unlikely the kid herself was the one responsible.

      Seeing that they are going to re-host the final does seem to be a fair way to approach it. I'd just discount the spurious votes myself, but I guess if you have that many people ringing premium phone numbers just to vote, it might be a good earner for the company...

      ...we are sure that the company didn't arrange this, right?

      1. Tomato42

        yeah, what is more likely, a public company risking a massive PR blow-back for comparatively few cents or an entitled parent of an entitled kid buying her an ensured win

        gee, I don't know /s

        that kid likely gets more pocket money than the average russian earns in a year, she'll be fine and that has a chance to be a valuable learning experience for her

    3. Roq D. Kasba

      SELECT DISTINCT... would solve these things somewhat

  4. Mage Silver badge
    Big Brother

    Or...

    It was a plot to get her disqualified because she was genuinely popular. Hence the inept vote rigging that wasn't actually needed for her to win.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    A b2b telecom software firm I used to work for was approached by the manager of a singer whose career was failing but was in the final of a UK singing competition hoping to relaunch his career.

    He offered us lots of cash to make many thousands of calls to a UK premium rate number.

    We originally declined before we found out who it was for, thinking it was a betting scam. It was only later we found out it was just rigging the winner of a singing competition.

    Anyway, they presumably found somebody else because that singer (who wasn't the favourite), won that competition.

  6. Blockchain commentard

    Not a popular show then, if the winner only gets 30,000 votes. Perhaps they they should just Jeremy Kyle it.

    1. TimMaher Silver badge
      Pint

      New El Reg keyword

      Ahh @block, I think that you have just invented a new El Reg keyword.

      To “kylie” something (verb). To remove an excremental media event and terminate it... with extreme prejudice.

      Get you crate of beer for that one Red Team.

      Plus an upvote.

  7. _LC_
    Alert

    This is why Assange and Manning are in prison, pending phony charges

    “Vault7” tells you the truth about who’s behind those “North Korea hacked this”, “Iran hacked that”, “the Russians manipulated those” – attacks:

    https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/

    Assange is a reporter, unlike the people reporting propaganda (knowing very well that it’s a scam).

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Paris Hilton

      Re: This is why Assange and Manning are in prison, pending phony charges

      Assange is a bellend.

      1. _LC_
        Gimp

        Re: This is why Assange and Manning are in prison, pending phony charges

        ... and the guys shooting civilians (including children), having lotsa fun doing so, are to be tolerated.

        *hmmm* Somehow, I happen to know what you are.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Holmes

          Re: This is why Assange and Manning are in prison, pending phony charges

          Go on then, what am I?

      2. Jay 2

        Re: This is why Assange and Manning are in prison, pending phony charges

        Hmm, it was his bellend that caused the chain of events that led to him currently serving time and pondering where he'll potentially be serving more time...

      3. Craig 2

        Re: Assange is a bellend.

        Absolutely, doesn't mean he's wrong though...

    2. Alistair
      Windows

      Re: This is why Assange and Manning are in prison, pending phony charges

      While C Manning pulled a treasure trove of documentation out of the US military communications systems and dumped them on the world stage through wikileaks, and may well have done some good in the process, there was definitely damage done as well.

      That said, very few have the intelligence, logic and reasoning skills to dig through that pile of raw data (which is what it is) and turn out a comprehensive review that turns it into information.

      Also, Assange is STILL a motherfucking bellend.

    3. Kubla Cant
      Terminator

      Re: This is why Assange and Manning are in prison, pending phony charges

      @_LC_

      Eh? Apart from the word "phony" I can't see any connection between your comment and this story.

      Are you a defective comment bot?

      1. _LC_

        Re: This is why Assange and Manning are in prison, pending phony charges

        You are, as this story is clearly propaganda.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Singing, but folk too busy carrying on the cold war to notice.

    A crooked tv muzak competition and a large portion of the comments have extrapolated out to the relative probity of whole nations and is Assange a goodie or a baddy? What next, a Brexit tie in?

    I'd be very surprised if there is anyone out there with ACTUAL real-life experience of music competitions who doesn't know that they're very often fixed, regardless of location.

    All the while, it seems that no-one even notices the music, which in typically modern fashion the world over mangles a good song by turning every single note into five different ones just to show that the singer can do it. The vocal equivalent of modern rock guitar playing, where insanely fast fret widdling is used to cover up the fact that there's no actual music happening.

    Sad to say, as AC below here states, "the kid can sing", shame about the bloody awful direction she's been given, and yes, mortifying for almost any child.

    1. cornetman Silver badge

      Re: Singing, but folk too busy carrying on the cold war to notice.

      > ... mangles a good song by turning every single note into five different ones just to show that the singer can do it.

      Yeah, I must admit, that boils my blood as well.

      Put it in the same camp as extreme vibrato to hide the singer's complete inability to hold a note in tune.

      It's why I can't stand opera.

      1. holmegm

        Re: Singing, but folk too busy carrying on the cold war to notice.

        Indeed.

        Same reason I can scarcely listen to my country's anthem anymore.

        Sung "straight", it is beautiful. Sung as ... well, as every soloist sings it now, it's truly awful.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Singing, but folk too busy carrying on the cold war to notice.

      'turning every single note into five different ones'

      Oh my word, succinct and oh so very true. Have an upvote.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The kid can sing

    I feel sorry for her if her results were manipulated, particularly if it was likely she would have won anyway (the article is not clear if the 8000 votes was all the fraudulent votes or not).

    As others have said, it was probably a betting fraud issue, or possibly a stupid A&R effort.

    Anyway, I suspect it has been mortifying for the poor kid, and I'm a little disappointed in the comments showing absolutely no empathy for her whatsoever

  10. Kubla Cant

    Plus ça change

    Back in the days of 7-inch vinyl it was well known that a manager could propel his client up the charts by going round buying records at the right shops.

  11. holmegm

    She's not bad

    She's not bad ... the "warble every note" style is not to my taste, but it would appear that she can sing.

  12. JohnG

    The Voice Russia

    Here's a "The Voice Russia" entry of questionable talent but apparently quite popular:

    https://youtu.be/UTqvcs4pLjk

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