Canadian woman fined for not holding escalator handrail finally reaches the top after 10 years A Canadian woman fined for failing to hold on to an escalator handrail in 2009 has finally reached the Supreme Court in her search for justice. Bela Kosoian was using the subway in Laval near Montreal in 2009 when a police officer told her to respect a warning sign, in French, saying "Caution, hold the handrail", CTV News …
There are many curious bylaws that were consolidated into actual proper law in the Transport Act 2000. For example, and the one applicable here, one must comply with any reasonable direction given by an appointed representative of the railway company. So if you are, say, asked to leave a station by a staff member, but refuse, you've actually broken a criminal law rather than a civil one. Similarly if they instructed you to hop on one leg whilst rubbing your tummy and patting your head, that's not reasonable, but telling you to hold the handrail is reasonable.
The more curious ones:
If there's a sign directing you to queue for a ticket, you must queue for a ticket. Even if you don't need one or already have one? The law doesn't mention that! You can't play music to the annoyance of others. Tsch tsch tsch tsch tsch earpods. If carrying a scythe, the blade must at all times be firmly wrapped in stout hessian. You hear that, Death? You must be able to manage your own luggage. Yes, that's the law!
Unfortunately there's no law banning bloody bags on wheels, and it's dubious if the rules on considerate use of escalators extend to making sharp 90 degree turns at the top and walking across the path of people trying to step off (read - being thrown off by the forward momentum) the other side.
ASD reigns supreme on El Reg today.
Gives me a headache. Just wished I could take something for that, but all the pill bottles I checked warn me not to take any pills if the seal's been broken.
I'm surrounded by stacks of open pill bottles - looking for one that didn't come sealed.
Maybe I should cut the bottom off the next one?
:-)
I only went to the local secondary school and thus what to know, what is an escalator?
My best guess, having heard the teachers mention it so often, is the mechanism for teaching staff to receive a (considerable) increase in pay without actually getting a pay rise*. I can't see why they wouldn't want to grasp such a thing with both hands.
*actually displayed to me by the SO and those of her rellies who work in the public sector.
Other commentards didn't seem to understand that "dogs must be carried" implies that if you don't have a carry-on dog you can't ride the escalator.
Sounds like there's a good business for short-term dog rentals at each end of the moving staircases. I think one loonie per up/down would be sufficient.
"Sounds like there's a good business for short-term dog rentals at each end of the moving staircases"
Tricky. Central London, morning rush hour, either you have a lot of dogs at the bottom of the escalator to start with or you've got to replenish the supply by getting them back down again afterwards. Can one person carry several dogs down? Or can you have a slide to return them? If the latter how do you work it in the evening rush hour?
Tricky. Central London, morning rush hour, either you have a lot of dogs at the bottom of the escalator to start with or you've got to replenish the supply by getting them back down again afterwards.
Well it depends on just what type of 'dog' would satisfy the regulations. given I suspect the term 'dog' hasn't been qualified, you could probably get away with a small soft toy dog.
obviously ought to use corgwn
Hmm.. the use of a breed known to be more snappy than other small breeds - what could go wrong?
(I like Corgi dogs - but their heritage as cattle-driving dogs that were bred and trained to nip at the heels of the cattle with their teeth in order to drive them along does seem to have left their mark on the breed..)
No, they set up a special "small carry dog" training school. The dogs are trained to form an orderly pack at the entrance to the escalator and wait to be picked up by a human. They then wait for a lift at the exit - When the doors open and a sufficient number of dogs have entered the lift an especially trained intelligent dog (a Border Collie?) pushes the button to operate the lift. The dogs wait until the door opens after their trip and join the queue again at the entrance. The lift may need to be partitioned to keep the dogs separate from other travellers. I'm sure a Transport for London working group can be set up to carry out a feasibility study: Perhaps the dogs can also be trained to sniff for drugs or explosives on their human carriers?
Mine's the one with the chihuahua in the pocket >======>
Mine's the one with the chihuahua in the pocket
Real dogs[1] are also available..
(NewDog is a one year old rescue Podenco/Chiahuahua cross. He's very, very intelligent and very, very active. I'm somewhat knackered. The main problem with Chiahuahua dogs is the owners treating them like toys rather than dogs..)
'it might not be as obvious to non-native speakers as some might think.'.
It's a Terry Pratchett thing...
Terry Pratchett used the line in 'Truckers'. Something along the lines of 'Dogs and pushchairs must be carried - and some people wern't carrying either pushchairs or dogs'.
'It's an older joke than that.'
Yes. In my defence I did say 'Terry Pratchett used the line'.
There seems to be a greater proportion of Sir Terry fans among el Reg commentards than among the general population. I felt that would help explain why the joke was recognised so quickly by some and not others.
"I genuinely didn't understand what that is about either."
Maybe it's time to explain.
Somewhere in the depths of time someone in London Underground decided that there was a safety risk if passenger's dogs rode the escalators and that if a passenger had a dog with them they should carry it. The safety notice that was concocted was sufficiently terse as to be ambiguous and has been a source of amusement ever since, at least to those familiar to LU stations.
e.g. on the door of a building site:
"Protective equipment must be worn" => Anyone entering must don hardhat, hi-vis, goggles, ear defenders etc.
i.e. If you do not have PPE, this rule applies and you may not enter.
"Dogs must be carried" => If you have a dog, it must be carried on the escalator.
i.e. If you do not have a dog, this rule does not apply and you may enter.
Same sentence construction, two different meanings. English is a pig like that.
one of my dogs weighs 30+ kilos
At one point, we had to half-rotties - the GSD/Rottie was about 55kg and the Dobermann/Rottie about 40kg. My wife (who at the time was about 50kg - has now ballooned to a massive 53kg[1] - her height (153cm) hasn't changed..) was far, far outweighed by them when she took them for a walk.
Ah - the joys of both training and nose harnesses..
[1] She blames it on being over 55. I blame it on chocolate, cake and clotted cream..
The procedure is: inform a member of station staff. The escalator will be barriered off until it is clear. The escalator will be stopped. The escalator can then be used as a fixed stairway. The staff member will barrier off one end and escort the dog and person up or down. When the escalator is clear, barrier off the other end. They will then radio for a restart on that escalator. Once the machine is in operation again, they will remove the barrier and return to the other end and remove the first barrier.
If there are two members of staff available, they will take an end each (much quicker).
well, perhaps a stuffed dog. an enterprising business savvy individual could rent them at one side of the escalator, allowing passengers to carry a dog, then collect the stuffed dog at the end of the ride.
At $1 each, WAY less than the potential fine, you'd make a ton o' money. Not only that, it's kinda like renting snow chains that way... "chains required" on the sign, next to the sign, a group of people renting snow chains so you can proceed. Perfect!
aged under 30 now glued to their addict device (aka smartphone) almost 24/7 holding an escalator handrail is something of a rarity these days is it not?
I would not know as I don't use (anti)Social Media or do things like email on my phone.
The Canadian Supremes have shown a remarkable level of common sense. We done people!
Well what did you expect ? It's Canada.
The surprising thing is that it had to get to the Supreme Court. Seems like they're getting infected from below. Gotta stay on the ball there, Canada. It would be such a shame to let yourself stoop to that level.
Well it is right there in the story itself - Quebec.
Canada's version of the US south with all that entails but with a Quebecquios accent.
As for common sense I am just glad that the Supreme Court uses GOOD SENSE instead.
Erm, the article says she's reached the supreme court. Not that the case has been heard and they've reached a verdict.
On the face of it, nanny state gone mad. Could there be more to it than we've been told? For example, what if she was drunk and tottering in high heels, and had turned abusive when offered friendly advice? If that were the underlying story then it looks more finely balanced.
Nope. La Belle Province de Quebec has a language law which actually prohibits signage in any language other than French. Montreal being situated in Quebec, the sign is correctly (whether you agree with the provincial language law or not) in French only.
I still think she's absolutely in the right. Handcuffed and detained for half an hour for failing to obey a directive? That's abuse of authority and richly deserving of sanction. The same sign says to hold your baby's stroller in place ahead of you with one hand while holding on to the handrail with the other. How safe is that?
Do not forget that that laws enforcement division insists everything is translated including proper names.
I still wonder why the world has not sanctioned the province for overt racism at all levels.
A while back I was billeted for work in Montreal and noted not a single ethnic face on any local station including the cbc, yet it is the opposite in any other province and mandated as such.
You're wrong. The law allows for bilingual signage but the French must be al least twice as big than the English inscription.
I'm only an immigrant in this part of Canada but reading through the history books I came to understand some of the reasons why all this is happening. Hint, there was a big difference between French and British colonialism.
The handrail moving faster (or slower) than the stairs used to annoy the shit out of me.
Until I learned it's actually a safety feature.
When you're going up, the handrail moves slightly faster to pull you towards the stairs to prevent you from falling backwards. When moving down, the handrail moves slightly slower to push you back a little and help prevent you from falling forwards.
When you're going up, the handrail moves slightly faster to pull you towards the stairs to prevent you from falling backwards. When moving down, the handrail moves slightly slower to push you back a little and help prevent you from falling forwards.
I'm sure some of the London Underground escalators are set up the other way round, but then if you are walking up/down the escalator you don't really 'hold' the handrail - your just let your hand hover over it...
They reverse most escalators at weekends in order to even out the wear. The underground even used to have flippable track rails for the same reason of wear because it's a pain to get the big metals down to the low level sections. Two wearing faces per section, but they don't do that now. Good idea though it was, it meant specially drawn metal which cost more than standard, and it also was bumpier as the track clips slightly wore the spare surface, leaving a lot of rail grinding to do.
Hmm, someone's been watching QI.
I used to work for the Underground and a lot of legends have been discussed at very great lengths by staff over the decades. I've consistently heard that the belt travelling at a different speed is a technical difficulty, not anything more helpful to the "customer". I think the time they cracked the problem was the escalators supplied for the Jubilee line (it may even have been for the Victoria line), where the belt is much more closely synchronised with the movement of the steps.
Now if someone knows the answer to why e.g., there are co-acting signals at Chesham, that would be a real mystery solved.
I thought it was because when the single line to Chesham was switched to signalled instead of token worked, that they were still had some steam-hauled locos on the line, and nobody really trusted that the tripcock on a steam loco would actually stop the engine, so they put a second set of signals in just in case. Knowing that line as I do, I certainly wouldn't want to coming off the rails at any great speed there; be a right old mess.
I open restroom doors (that open in) with a paper towel. I know you should wash your hands after using the restroom, and I usually do. But I've seen many restrooms where I'm sure my willy that I just touched, and just washed in the shower is the cleanest thing in the room, including the faucet, soap, towels, etc. In which case I touch as little as possible.
It used to be and possibly still is standard practice among machinists to wash your hands carefully, THEN relieve yourself.
Those who failed to grasp the wisdom of this would sooner or later find themselves having to remove a piece of swarf from their genitals, or getting someone else to do it. . . . .
It used to be and possibly still is standard practice among machinists to wash your hands carefully, THEN relieve yourself.
Same for many other industries. I used to handle acids on a regular basis. You can imagine how long I washed before 'anything else'. I'd put the best surgeons to shame for cleanliness!
Concerning the practise of handwashing.
At the slaughterhouse I used to work at, one Canadian Food Inspector had a habit of stepping onto the mez floor & shaking his hands after doing the obligatory hand wash floor above one workers station (His feet at her approximate head height).
She complained about this as the water droplets were hitting her head\going down the back of her neck & she had got to the end of her tether, he was taken to one side & a gentle word was put in his shell-like.
Another food inspector stepped up to the same spot washed his hands while drying them properly & this time a drop of moisture hit her head from elsewhere on high.....
She didn't even blink, she swiveled on the spot & had a damn good go at disemboweling his foot (Protective boot & all) with the knife in her hand.
She was terminated, arrested & possibly deported.
Do you also refuse to touch door handles..
The ones in and out of a men's[1] loo - yes. If I have to, I tend try to have a sleeve between me and the potentially bugridden surfaces..
[1] Strange as it may seem, I've never (in conscious memory) been in a womens loo. While I'm sure that they too may have an issue with people not washing their hands I suspect it's much, much smaller than with men. Being the child of a nurse, I was indoctrinated^W trained from a very early age to wash my hands..
I've read that copper handrails reduce bacteria and infection greatly. Apparently, those very small organisms don't deal well with conductivity. The free flow of electrons is not good for them, it appears, and no that wasn't on some new age web page. Now I wish I'd saved that link. Not a cheap material to use but might cut down on medical bills and produces and overall savings to a govs total budget.
It's broad-spectrum, too; the antiseptic property of copper and silver is effective against many fungi and viruses. (There are a number of interesting studies readily available online.)
That's why copper strips are sometimes applied to roofs to remove and prevent mildew, for example.
The problem with using copper handrails, of course, is that some asshole will steal them. Copper theft is widespread in the US and I expect it's similar elsewhere. When I had new gutters (eavestroughs) installed some years back, my paint & plaster guy wanted to paint them with a faux copper finish he'd used in some other projects. (The paint contains copper flecks so it even oxidizes appropriately.) I declined, since I knew I'd return from a vacation to find some moron had pulled the aluminum1 gutters down thinking they were copper.
1Sorry, folks, but that's the spelling with better etymological support. See the discussion in Aldersey-Williams, Periodic Tales.
Upvote for the bulk of your post being sensible, but there is literally no possibility of anyone being confused or mislead by either of the two common spellings for the element Al.
So quibbling about the spelling is literally a waste of time!
I'd call a gutter thief an arsehole, rather than an asshole, but I'm not confused by your use of asshole and agree with your sentiment.
Even 'pissed' which depending on geography can mean either drunk or angry is mostly understood correctly just from the context.
Don't Worry, Be Happy!
the antiseptic property of copper and silver is effective against many fungi and viruses
Which is the only possible reason that the copper braclets touted as helping arthritis might have an action - and it sure isn't because of the magnets that are usually attached. I suspect that some of the copper will get leached out into the skin (by sweat - it's a pretty good ion-exchange medium) and *might* have a slight systemic action.
Personally, I prefer silver. With no magnets. One of them containing my medical details..
(And they keep the werewolves and vampires away - I've never been attacked by one while wearing silver so it must be working!)
A certain imperial chemical industrial company I used to work for tried to impose similar must-use-the-handrail rules for employees going up and down stairs. Not holding onto the rail was a "yellow card" offence. (Seriously- all employees were expected to carry a yellow card around with them and shame their colleagues, referee-style, if they spotted them breaking such rules).
All well and good, but the main stairwell only had a single handrail, leaving us in a bit of a pickle if we happened to meet someone coming the other way...
A certain imperial chemical industrial company I used to work for tried to impose similar must-use-the-handrail rules for employees going up and down stairs. Not holding onto the rail was a "yellow card" offence. (Seriously- all employees were expected to carry a yellow card around with them and shame their colleagues, referee-style, if they spotted them breaking such rules).
I've heard it's the same way at Intel. In fact, from what I've heard about them, it sounds more like the "Mirror Mirror" episode of "Star Trek" (promotions via deviously undermining the competition).
"Not holding onto the rail was a "yellow card" offence... All well and good, but the main stairwell only had a single handrail, leaving us in a bit of a pickle if we happened to meet someone coming the other way..." I hope you did the proper thing and initiated the formation of a committee exploring remedies? It being a safety relevant issue, did you shut down the place until a solution was found?
A certain steel making company I work on site for a client has a "3 points of contact at all times" rule on the stairs. I can't reach both handrails at once as the stairs are too wide, so have hit the problem that the moment I start on the stairs it's against the rules for me to move my feet.
Makes it hard to climb them.
Sounds like some dumb f*ck mangler went on a t*** building exercise at a climbing wall, and his/her fellow employees failed to throw him/her off it.
Actually this thought opens a vista of opportunity involving PHBs and extreme sport days out. . . .
This is not incitement to break the law. Don't get caught.
A certain imperial chemical industrial company I used to work for tried to impose similar must-use-the-handrail rules for employees going up and down stairs. Not holding onto the rail was a "yellow card" offence. (Seriously- all employees were expected to carry a yellow card around with them and shame their colleagues, referee-style, if they spotted them breaking such rules).
Hmm. When I was younger and fitter, I discovered the fastest way down a particular set of stairs was to leap from landing to half-landing, using the handrail as a fulcrum and fixed point to regulate my speed, then half-landing to the next floor and so on. (This was before parkour became well known). I certainly used the handrail, but none of the individual steps, and would, presumably, have complied with the letter of corporate diktats to 'use the handrail'.
Problems ensued if I unexpectedly met people coming up the stairs. Good 'situational awareness' was required.
I would do myself a permanent mischief if I tried to do it now.
When I were a lad, my family had a holiday in New York City and stayed in an apartment on the 21st floor. One day, for the hell of it, my younger brother and I decided to take the stairs when we set out in the morning. We made good time, relative to the elevator, by omitting many of the intermediary stairs on the way down, employing a technique not unlike yours.
That evening, climbing up 42 flights after a long day of walking around and seeing the sights, we gained a fresh appreciation for elevator technology. But we stuck it out.
Ah, to be young. I'd like to try that sort of thing now but the risk of a heart attack deters me.
On the other hand, I'd happily walk up those stairs at a leisurely pace. Then I'd release my Slinky from the top. It's no Log, but it's still fun for a girl or a boy.
But did the officer see her not hold the handrail all the way?
The sign only says to 'hold the handrail' not 'hold the handrail for the entirety of your journey'.
So resting your hand on it at any point of your journey shows compliance with the instruction...
(It's Happy Chocolate weekend and I've been drinking whisky since 16:00)
Well, there is another angle:
At one point during the proceedings, Justice Clement Gascon said: “I suppose if we were to give tickets to people not holding the handrail, we’d be issuing hundreds per hour.”
A few years back I got a parking ticket for not parking wholly within a parking bay at my local railway station. Decided to let it go to court - why?
The car had been parked like that since 8am, the ticket was issued at just after 7pm, ie. when the car park was practically empty and the white lines of the bays were visible to the security cameras...
A few days collecting photo evidence (at 8am when whole rows of cars including mine were parked not wholly within the too small bays) was used to ask the awkward question about how many tickets they issued and why my car was only ticketed at 7pm on the one day and not at sometime between 8am and midday on several other days...
So wouldn't be surprised if the officer was only able to see and confront the lady because she was, at the time, the only user of the escalators at that station.
Simple solution for persons not following the "safety suggestions" would be if the person suffers an accident cannot collect from it if they are not following the "safety suggestion" and if the accident causes others who are following the "safety suggestion" the person not following the "safety suggestion" to be inured that same person would be accountable for the harm caused.
Let the law of consequences take care to the beakers of safety rules to teach them to follow the rules.
You do realize that the opposite is also true in places. I've been to a couple of them. One of them didn't present any of us any problems, regarless of what you've heard about Mississippi. The other was in some downtown part of Atlanta, at night, and I definitely desired to be anywhere else.
30 Odd years ago me mum and a few of her nearest shopping companions[1] wound up in the ER, with mum getting her skull, hip and shoulders x-rayed.
Why?
Because she was following the "safety suggestion", and holding the handrail when due to some mechanical error it came to a sudden and grinding halt. Mum and the others caught out took too long to realise what was going on and let go[2]. Not sure if everyone fell or one person started and took others out. As it was the up escalator they all fell backwards, some rolling further. I'd never paid attention to the buttons at the top or bottom of many escalators, take much more notice of them now. This was at Farmers Co-Op (or Farmers Trading[3]) Department Store, New Plymouth, IIRC '85 or '86.
On at least half a dozen times since then I've seen at least one rail stopped on an escalator or travelator.
Oh. No breakages that I recall, not that I cared for anyone else. Just pissed I had already been having to spend a day away from my favourite things, which was delayed since I couldn't even enjoy the delights of the 'big smoke' let alone what I would normally have been doing.
[1] IIRC none of them knew us, just people who were on the same machine at the same time.
[2] IE they didn't. (didn't let go)
[3] Farmers Co-Op is long closed. Farmers Trading is now just "Farmers". Both could exist in the same town and usually sell the same sort of stuff to a degree, however FC was closer to a 'big box' type place whilst FT focused more on clothing/fashion/smelly stuff. FC also had great agriculture stuff in there and some incredibly knowledgeable staff when it came to growing things. Gone but far from forgotten (at least from people who miss having real service and talent around!)
--> Icon coz closest we have to broken bones.
Slap fights are not an infraction. Infractions are minor incidents where the fine is typically under $100. Infraction court can have witnesses and documentation but no lawyers or juries. It's pretty much a walk-through deal.
It has to be fast because some areas in the US, like big chunks of California, abuse infractions by sending bail notices for $200 to $500 disguised as a fine. You have to go to court, say "Guilty", and then pay your actual fine of about $35.
"rescuing cat from tree" thing is hell though
It can be - Oldest Brother (he is the tree surgery career) was asked to rescue a cat that had been up a tree for at least a day. OB, being almost as mad on cats as me, was happy to do so free of charge.
He gets to the top of the tree, talks to cat and it's happy to see him - right up until he tries to get hold of it. At which point, it does the whole 'venus hand-trap of death' thing on him with the added bonus of extra-bitey stuff.
At which point, cat got to test the whole 'landing on its feet after a fall from a height' thing. It was completely unhurt, unlike my brother (several very deep punctures in his hand and several large areas of skin missing from his wrist). He decided to never do the whole resuce-cat-from-tree thing again unless it was with his own cats (poor thing - he only has three. Lightweight!)
The owner wasn't terribly amused but relented when she saw the size of the holes in his hand and wrist - and, since he makes a living from using his hands, it's a pretty impressive job that the cat did getting through all the callus and hardened skin.
Why did the author use the word 'but' rather than 'and' or 'then' to cojoin her acquittal and subsequent legal action?
If I was treated like that my natural response would be there needs to be administrative pain inflicted sufficient to dissuade similar future action on behalf of that officer and more widely the culture that allowed them to thrive. Shouldn't tolerate broken windows, y'know.
We used to have a certain escalator at work which would sometimes stop on the way down...pitching you face first into whatever was before you...loads of fun was had by all. On the other hand, after fire drills we would be going back in (en masse) and one of them being overloaded would actually slip backwards (until enough people were dumped off to make it up to the next floor). more entertainment.
When i were much younger and had to stay for morning meetings (worked 2nd or 3rd in computer room), i would sometimes run up the down escalators all four floors to wake up. worked a champ.
Stupid Cop
Bit like the young-and-very-keen copper that tried to do us for 'riding without due care and attention' in Weston-super-Mare some years ago (some of us were standing up on the footpegs to stretch our legs after riding for about 6 hours - something that is only of concern if you have to manouver while doing it. Which we didn't..)
His sergant[1] was riding with us.. he took PC Mustard-Keen aside for a quiet but intense chat[2] and (afterwards) told us he was going to review said coppers record for any other similar situations. What might be known today as a "training opportunity".
[1] BiL of the ride organiser and a former motorbike cop[3].
[2] During with pretty much all we heard was "yes Sarge", "No Sarge" and "sorry Sarge".
[3] Who tend to care more about whether you are riding safely rather than the letter of the law. Well - the ones I've been exposed to anyway..
PROHIBITED ANIMALS
MAMMALS
Artiodactyla (such as cattle, goats, sheep, pigs)
Canidae (such as coyotes, wolves, foxes, hybrid wolf dogs) except dogs
Chiroptera (bats such as fruit bats, myotis, flying foxes)
Edentates (such as anteaters, sloths, armadillos)
Felidae (such as tigers, leopards, cougars) except cats
Hyaenidae (such as hyaenas)
Lagomorpha (such as hares, pikas) except rabbits
Marsupials (such as kangaroos, opossums, wallabies) except sugar gliders derived from self-sustaining captive populations
Mustelidae (such as mink, skunks, weasels, otters, badgers) except ferrets
Non-human primates (such as chimpanzees, gorillas, monkeys, lemurs)
Perissodactyla (such as horses, donkeys, jackasses, mules)
Proboscidae (elephants)
Procyonidae (such as coatimundi, cacomistles)
Rodentia (such as porcupines and prairie dogs) except rodents which do not exceed 1,500 grams and are derived from self-sustaining captive populations
Ursidae (bears)
Viverridae (such as mongooses, civets, genets)
BIRDS
Anseriformes (such as ducks, geese, swans, screamers)
Galliformes (such as pheasants, grouse, guineafowls, turkeys)
Struthioniformes (flightless ratites such as ostriches, rheas, cassowaries, emus, kiwis)
REPTILES
Crocodylia (such as alligators, crocodiles, gavials)
All snakes which reach an adult length larger than 3 metres
All lizards which reach an adult length larger than 2 metres
OTHER
All venomous and poisonous animals
Toronto has many other arcane bylaws by which to extract money from you, too. BUT NONE TO EXCLUDE DUMB POLITICIANS.
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