back to article Want to hang out with criminals but can't be bothered to download Tor? Try Facebook

Dozens of groups composed of around 385,000 people convened to discuss and participate in dubious or illegal services - not on the dark web but on Facebook - according to Cisco's Talos security team. Selling and trading stolen credit card numbers, identity data, contraband and the like has long occurred on internet forums, …

  1. Version 1.0 Silver badge

    But Facebook checks all the posts!

    I guess they are far too busy checking content for the occasional breastfeeding mothers to find the time to worry about spam and credit card thieves.

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: But Facebook checks all the posts!

      Fa[e]ceb[itch,ook] can go around SHADOW BANNING politicals it doesn't agree with, but doesn't do SQUAT about all of the illegal activity regularly conducted via their network... Even when swatted at with a CLUE BAT? and getting their NOSES rubbed in it?

      Say it AIN'T SO!!! [heh I'm totally not surprised]

      whack-a-mole indeed, with many of the moles surviving multiple solid whacks, it seems

      1. Adrian 4

        Re: But Facebook checks all the posts!

        Facebook isn't regulated as a service (yet), so they're free to choose whatever (legal) criteria they want to filter posts, whether that's women feeding their children or alt-right hate groups. You can have no expectation that they would allow anything their owners don't like, because if it doesn't suit you, you can go somewhere else.

        You might try Twitter, who apparently have rules on hate-speech posting but choose to ignore them for the rich and powerful.

        https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2019/03/twitter-considers-flagging-trump-s-inappropriate-tweets/

    2. macjules

      Re: But Facebook checks all the posts!

      I doubt that they even bother to check anything these days. Facebook's PR division must follow these lines:

      1) Lie

      2) Blame it on hackers/ISIS/Mexicans/Brexit

      3) Lie even more

      4) Put Zuckerberg in front of a Senate committee to lie even more

      5) Sit back and see how the money rolls in.

  2. Sgt_Oddball

    Why are we even surprised any more?

    The only thing that would have been shocking was if Facebooks own staff got involved. But even then when has this ever had an effect on a silicon valley company?

    I mean just look at uber....

    1. don't you hate it when you lose your account

      Re: Why are we even surprised any more?

      Faceslap make enough money running their just on the side of legal operations, has uber ever made any money. Personally I'd nuke them both from orbit and even then I wouldn't be sure

  3. anothercynic Silver badge

    We are investing heavily...

    ... By taking advantage of the services offered, perhaps? Oh, dearie me. Did I say that out loud!

    1. the Jim bloke
      Facepalm

      Re: We are investing heavily...

      ... by paying a guy to look at these posts...

      but all he does is browse facebook all day..

  4. MachDiamond Silver badge

    Minimum wage = not very good

    Not very many minimum wage workers are savvy enough to follow what's being discussed when it comes to some of these topics. If they just delete everything, they're going to be irritating (put mildly) groups and members that work in IT security (why they are on FB in the first place would be a mystery). Yes, they would be discussing hacking, pen testing, access control and all sorts of topics that a politician would consider naughty and black hats call the tools of the trade. You get what you pay for and in Silicon Valley, minimum wage is $50/hour or you are going to be living in your car or sleeping rough.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Minimum wage = not very good

      Well the moderators are obviously living in the wreckage of a car since they are paid 15/16$ an hour.

      And at this salary, I think these moderators are deliberately ignoring this content. So that when they get back to the wreckage, they have a few CCs to buy food.

      1. sprograms

        Re: Minimum wage = not very good

        -but they're not living in Silicon Valley. They're in other states, cheaper states, and turnover is quite high. Phoenix seems to be popular.

        1. katrinab Silver badge

          Re: Minimum wage = not very good

          Maharashtra is also very popular and even cheaper, about ₹55 per hour, which is less than $1.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    $50 an hour??

    If $50 an hour is what they are paying to moderate discussion groups and moderate content to catch violations, they can hire someone who DOES NOT live in California or Silicon Valley. The national minimum wage sure as hell isn't $50 an hour.

    1. Mark 85

      Re: $50 an hour??

      They probably are going "cheap".. hell everything else in sales, marketing, and customer service is off-shored so why not "monitoring". The fact they may not speak or read English or other languages (Russian?) should stand in FB's way. It's all about the upside... low cost and increased profit.

      1. NATTtrash

        Re: $50 an hour??

        India... Philippines...

        1. a_yank_lurker

          Re: $50 an hour??

          Vietnam, Bangladesh are probably cheaper and most do not know English, Russian, Chinese so they would not be able to moderate the content unless it has pictures.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: $50 an hour??

        The Verge had a good article about the domestic moderators.

        15 bucks, a tad over the local minimum wage in Arizona is what is being paid. But a pittance compared to the emotional shit you have to wade through when doing that job.

        https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/25/18229714/cognizant-facebook-content-moderator-interviews-trauma-working-conditions-arizona

        1. andifox@rogers.com

          Re: $50 an hour??

          Film out now "The Cleaners" profiles cleaners in MANILA, where wages are dirt-cheap and many speak English of a sort.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: $50 an hour??

            There is also a Storyville documentary on the BBC

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Unhappy

      Re: $50 an hour??

      no, $50/hr is what a junior programmer, IT, or tech should be earning (in Silly Valley), actually. If you're lucky you won't have 1.5 hour [each way] commute and NOT have a room-mate.

      Unless you're a "homeless" person, in which case you can pitch a tent and defecate on the street... and the cops won't arrest you.

      Is it any wonder that FB appears CLUELESS about crime via their services? If that company's execs have the *KIND* of mentality that accepts the public defecation and illegal activity, yet PUNISHES certain kinds of political speech, we can expect "more of same" indefinitely.

      'Silly Valley' indeed

    3. DropBear
      Facepalm

      Re: $50 an hour??

      Holy shit. I'm not going to say how many times over my current (IT) wage that is. Looks like I just need to learn to stomach all the "content" and I'm all set...

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    ...and about "can't be bothered to download Tor"....

    ....just download Knoppix 8.2......Tor is all there, and a complete working environment as well!!!

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    At first glance this screams Honeypot.

    But then again, Facebooks ineptitude to police their own platform makes everything possible these days.

  8. Suricou Raven

    Hardly surprising.

    Social media companies have always been reluctant to moderate - the more they know, the more they may be liable for. Plausible deniability is vital.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hardly surprising.

      .. and that, Ladies & Gentlemen, is the EXACT reason moderation will never be "good" - failings could possibly deliberate to keep up the myth that it's hard to do it right. Otherwise, they could not trot that out every time they get hauled into court for keeping this crap online and profiting off it.

      Facebook cleaning up would be like Western Union suddenly checking ID so tightly that money mules could no longer operate. Given the profit motive, I am certain that neither is ever going to happen with any enthusiasm from the board.

  9. Dazzz

    Film streaming too

    Seems to be plenty of groups offering full films to watch as well

  10. Version 1.0 Silver badge
    WTF?

    But Facebook used to moderate...

    Think back a few years to 2016 - Facebook used to moderate posts but then there were called out for doing it by the Republicans, claiming that Facebook was promoting a "liberal agenda" by removing posts that promoted conservative ideology. As a result Facebook completely changed the way that posts were moderated - and this was the start of the current imbroglio.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So, maybe someone can explain

    If these allegations are true, and there's plenty of evidence to substantiate them, why is law enforcement doing nothing about it?

    Or are they just waiting for the Europeans to act, so they can accuse them of being anti-american?

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Want to hang out with criminals but can't be bothered to download Tor?

    How about that set of knives in your kitchen drawer? Going out tonight again, are we.

  13. Howard Hanek
    Holmes

    Recidvism

    They've done this before. This is NOT the first time and........following in the path of all career criminals they go back because.......'it's for our own good' they say.

    They're a 'victim' or something say their lawyers.....

  14. Xenobyte
    FAIL

    Facebook moderation is random at best

    When it comes to moderation of so-called 'hate speech' their policy is all over the place. I see posts with "KILL ALL MUSLIMS!!!" that aren't removed at least for days and then if I post "Muslims are behind most of the terrorist attacks in the world today. Here's the statistics <link to statistics>" it gets removed and my account blocked - for being 'hate speech'.

    Oh, and when you get penalized by Facebook you are referred to the rules you've broken and encouraged to read and understand them. But the 'hate speech' section is only a few paragraphs and they're not very clear. I see no mention of uncomfortable statistics or similar.

    1. baud
      Facepalm

      Re: Facebook moderation is random at best

      "KILL ALL MUSLIMS" is clearly an opinion, that must be protected from censure by the State, whereas fact makes people uncomfortable, so they must be suppressed.

      /s

  15. 0laf
    WTF?

    Did they do more than search for dodgy names? These could be as much clickbait as any other crap on social media

  16. adam payne

    We know we need to be more vigilant and we're investing heavily to fight this type of activity."

    Why do I have a hard time believing this statement?

  17. This post has been deleted by its author

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