back to article The Solar System's oldest minerals reveal the Sun's violent past

An analysis of hibonite, thought to be among the oldest minerals in the Solar System, has shown the turbulent and violent early history of our sun. A team of scientists analysed meteorite samples containing hibonite using a scanning electron microscope and a mass spectrometer. The mineral contains small pockets of inert gases …

  1. Major N

    Highly volatile noble gases?

    Highly volatile noble gases? I thought the point of noble gases were that they were 'noble' and basically inert.....

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Mike Shepherd
      Meh

      Re: Highly volatile noble gases?

      volatile: (of a substance) easily evaporated at normal temperatures.

      1. Data Mangler

        Re: Highly volatile noble gases?

        > volatile: (of a substance) easily evaporated at normal temperatures.

        So... a gas, then.

        IMHO, "highly volatile" is one of those terms that are greatly overused in the popular media.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Highly volatile noble gases?

          >So... a gas, then.

          Helium, having the very low boiling point of 4.2 K is very volatile without exaggeration.

          1. Tom 7

            Re: Highly volatile noble gases?

            Helium, having the very low boiling point of 4.2 K is absolutely unbelievabley volatile with exaggeration.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Highly volatile noble gases?

          > "IMHO, "highly volatile" is one of those terms that are greatly overused in the popular media."

          Well. the media IS pretty gassy...

          1. Alistair
            Joke

            Re: Highly volatile noble gases?

            @Big John;

            Gassy? calling the media gassy is an insult to Jupiter and Saturn.

            1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
              Coat

              Re: Highly volatile noble gases?

              Is Uranus gassy.......

              I'll get me coat.

    3. Stoneshop
      Boffin

      Re: Highly volatile noble gases?

      Highly volatile noble gases? I thought the point of noble gases were that they were 'noble' and basically inert.....

      Reactive/inert is a different property than volatility..

    4. anothercynic Silver badge

      Re: Highly volatile noble gases?

      Highly volatile as in 'turns into gas quickly'. Helium and Neon are elements with some of the lowest boiling points, and Neon in particular also has one of the narrowest ranges of a specific state (it stays liquid in a range of only 3 Kelvin, narrower than Helium at 4K).

      That makes it pretty volatile in my book :-)

  2. Sceptic Tank Silver badge
    Alien

    Spreading it thin

    The young Sun was wrapped around an accretion disk?

    1. Benchops

      Re: Spreading it thin

      > The young Sun was wrapped around an accretion disk?

      Yes, in the early days of the solar system when the sun thought it would be cool to be a reverse Dyson sphere.

      1. scarletherring

        Re: Spreading it thin

        >> The young Sun was wrapped around an accretion disk?

        > Yes, in the early days of the solar system when the sun thought it would be cool to be a reverse Dyson sphere.

        Ah, the folly of youth.

  3. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    100microns is small? It all depends on what you're used to working with but 1/10th mm isn't really that small to a microscopist. By standard definitions it's within the range for sand grains.

    1. Mage Silver badge

      but 1/10th mm isn't really that small to a microscopist

      800nm geometry for first Pentiums. About 14nm for current 2017 - 2018 production (probably smallest feature, not geometry in traditional sense). Intel seems to be struggling with 10nm.

      Actual chips are very much bigger than 1/10th mm despite being called microchips, though single discrete transistors might be only 1mm across and much smaller than an EPROM, RAM or CPU. My kids examined EPROMS with their microscope 20 years ago.

      You can view some bacteria with a "toy" microscope.

      A grain of sand is huge :)

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: but 1/10th mm isn't really that small to a microscopist

        You can view some bacteria with a "toy" microscope.

        With the toy microscope that started me off that's more likely to be a bunch of fringes and other optical artefacts round a bacterium. It sounds as if Intel are having similar problems but at smaller scales.

        1. SkippyBing

          Re: but 1/10th mm isn't really that small to a microscopist

          I'm so going to date a microscopist...

    2. vtcodger Silver badge

      "100microns is small?"

      Good point actually. Objects 1/10th of a mm wide are readibly distinguishable by the naked eye. The (perfectly legible) mm markers on my ruler look to be 100 micron wide black lines spaced at 1000 micron (1mm) intervals.

  4. herman

    100 micron meteorites

    You can actually sweep up meteorite dust from your home roof. Fresh space dust is always sifting down on us.

    1. Mage Silver badge

      Re: 100 micron meteorites

      In the British Isles and parts of Southern Europe the dust after a southern wind is mostly from the Sahara.

      Some other places it's "fallout" from coal power stations.

      You'll struggle to find much space dust at ground level.

      1. Rich 11

        Re: 100 micron meteorites

        You'll struggle to find much space dust at ground level.

        Are you sure?

        1. Muppet Boss

          Re: 100 micron meteorites

          Says out of stock ;)

    2. Zwuramunga

      Re: 100 micron meteorites

      Wipe dew from your car.

      The magnetic particles stick to the steel body and accumulate naturally.

  5. Rich 11
    Headmaster

    Unclaimed accuracy

    The temperature would have been more than 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,732 Fahrenheit)

    It's quite alright to say 2,700F. It's not necessary to copy everything direct from the press release or from a calculator.

    1. Martin Budden Silver badge

      Re: Unclaimed accuracy

      This kind of thing really gives me the shits. I almost expect it from tabloids, but The Register should know better.

  6. This post has been deleted by its author

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Irradiation in the early solar system

    There might have been something energetic in the area at the time, like a supernova or neutron star. Having something energetic in the area (along with all the gravity it brings) might be what is needed to cause the gases to begin to accrete to form a new star and solar system in the first place.

    1. ravenviz Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: Irradiation in the early solar system

      There's always this idea that when fusion started at the proto-solar core that the produced radiation, 'swept away' the accretion disk. I reckon the early Sun probably swept some of itself away as well, leaving a more exposed fusion core before the present day internal structure began to form.

      1. annodomini2

        Re: Irradiation in the early solar system

        Red dwarfs emit more radiation because they are physically smaller, i.e. the core is closer to the surface.

        It could be that the young Sun was physically smaller for the purposes of starting the reaction and it would take time for the reaction to grow and also heat the outer layers of gas so there could have been more radiation emitted.

        1. Grikath

          Re: Irradiation in the early solar system

          This....

          There's a very good chance the very young Sun would have "pulsed" several times before the total mass of hydrogen would have enveloped the core and ....effectively shut in ands shielded the nuclear furnace.

          Think of something several times the size of Jupiter achieving critical mass, but not yet having the local gravity well to keep things contained.... BIG bada-Booom....

          1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
            Paris Hilton

            Re: Irradiation in the early solar system

            > achieving critical mass

            This is not a fission reactor.

            You need to dump hydrogen and some trace elements of "other stuff" onto the big heap until the pressure and heat at the center start to be sufficiently high to sometimes get a deuterium nucleus out of the proton-proton assembly <-> disassembly at equilibrium. This takes a long time. Real Astrophysicists may want to say more.

            I would call this "it gently warms up from the inside"; you would just be looking at a ball of hydrogen shedding the heat generated by infall for a many millions of years, until convection causes the interior to bubble up.

  8. Tigra 07
    Pint

    Move on

    He may have been violent in the past but he's a good neighbour these days. Jeez, it's been billions of years! Let it go!

    1. Jay Lenovo
      Coat

      Re: Move on

      Scientists nit pick the tiniest things to find dirt about our sun.

      Nerd Paparazzi to the Stars

  9. stewate4

    Hibonite Gems

    Is hibonite created in other processes. I see you can get hibonite gems. Are they the same thing?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Hibonite Gems

      It's a rare mineral occasionally found in high-grade metamorphic rocks that have been subject to enormous pressures and temperatures, but not quite brought to melting point. Almost all of the samples mentioned in the books come from Madagascar.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Hibonite Gems

        Midget gems are better, and thankfully more common...

        1. Tom 7

          Re: Midget Gems

          but just as bad for your teeth!

  10. Mike Pellatt

    While we're all being pedantic...

    The mineral contains small pockets of inert gases preserved from the chemical reactions from when the Sun’s energetic protons smashed into the calcium and aluminium atoms in the crystals

    I didn't think energetic protons smashing into atoms and bringing about a change of atomic number or some other nuclear reaction fell into the definition of "chemical reactions".

    1. Palpy

      Re: While we're all being pedantic... And right you are.

      The word the writer might have written transmutation instead, I suppose. Irradiated aluminum in nuclear reactors gradually becomes riddled with microscopic helium bubbles, which make it brittle. A previous study examined the 20Ne, 21Ne, 22Ne and 3He isotopes in the Murchison space rock, but in the chondrules and matrix, not the hibinite crystals.

      So does science advance, crabwise, groping to separate the signal from the noise at the edges of detection. Good on 'em!

  11. Jeffrey Nonken

    You had me at "blue crystals."

    1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
      Coat

      Blue Crystals

      I saw a Doctormentary about that & mind enhancing powers....

      I'll get me coat & long scarf that go so well with my teeth & curls.

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