back to article Another way to avoid eye contact: 4G on the Tube expected 'in 2019'

Transport for London promises to have 4G mobile coverage on the London Underground during 2019 following successful tests this summer. The trial on the Waterloo and City line, which took place overnight during engineering hours, ended with a contractor making the 1.5-mile journey through the UK capital with "uninterrupted data …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Won't matter to me

    I'll still turn the phone onto flight mode while I am down the 'Tube'. It is a few minutes of time away from the posibility of people calling me.

    For others it will continue their regular doses of the Social Media Drug that around 50% of the population seemed to be hooked on these days.

    1. Another User
      Happy

      Re: Won't matter to me

      That is funny. ElReg is my social media platform...

    2. Commswonk

      Re: Won't matter to me

      For others it will continue their regular doses of the Social Media Drug that around 50% of the population seemed to be hooked on these days.

      Only 50%? Is that really that low?

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Will it work everywhere?

    Not my idea of a good thing, a million travellers quacking on their phones on the tube (or worse, their choice of vile ringtones), but I wonder how ambitious the scope is?

    For a customer, 4G on the tube probably means it working on the often long walking tunnels, the lifts, stairs, escalators, concourses, so that you can in theory have an uninterrupted call from on the street, down onto the tube, change lines, and return to street level.

    Any insiders have a view?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Will it work everywhere?

      More important - will it work for everyone.

      The first time I heard of this was ~ 2003 and at that point TFL was adamant that it wants to be able to enter into an exclusive deal. Is this still the case? If so - it is a lawsuit in the making and there will be no coverage for the next 5 years.

      1. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

        Re: Will it work everywhere?

        More important - will it work for everyone.

        RTFA

        ..we will require any bidder to allow access to all operators

        So providing your mobile device supports 4G, the answer is a simple: Yes.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Will it work everywhere?

      "Any insiders have a view?"

      It's mostly brick walls, tramps and buskers.

  3. m0rt

    Here is a controversial idea...

    Why not have overage over the mainlines? I travel on the train from 'The North' down to London, and can't utlilise the time overly effectively by dealing with calls because - guess what? It is 2017 and can't even continue a 2G conversation with any consistency. Certainly couldn't make a business call of any worth.

    Just a thought. But then I suppose that 30 mins for any Londoner is worth 4 hours of any other person in this country, obviously.

  4. katrinab Silver badge

    Any plans to provide coverage on the Overground? Coverage there is not that good at the moment.

    The phone companies are required to provide coverage to 9x% of the population under the terms of their licence, but nobody lives on the Overground, so they don't need to provide coverage there.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Erm why aren't EE doing the testing if they are ones with the contract for ESN?

  6. Overflowing Stack

    Bring back hanging!

    1. Overflowing Stack

      Sorry... thought I was on the Daily Mail website.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    And in other news...

    Violence against twentysomethings on tube soars in 2019. Police baffled.

  8. Charlie Clark Silver badge
    Coat

    YoutTube on the Tube, innit?

    EOM

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: YoutTube on the Tube, innit?

      oh go away

  9. Matt 52

    Pfft...

    I'd rather they figured out how to fit air-con.

    1. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

      Re: Pfft...

      I'd rather they figured out how to fit air-con.

      Installing air con equipment on tube trains isn't too hard. The difficult part is working out what to do with all the heat. On the deep level tube lines there aren't easy ways to remove the heat from the tunnels because they're so darn far from the outside world.

      As a starter for ten, try these links:

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Pfft...

        Judging for the explanation in the links - that the clay surrounding the tunnels was eventually heated up - it would seem the solution is to cool the clay back down to 14C. Run some refrigerant behind the walls and use it to heat nearby buildings in the winter. Assuming you remove more heat in the winter that is added during the summer, eventually the clay will be cool year round without the energy waste of dumping heat in the summer.

        Yeah yeah, it would cost a lot and be too disruptive to retrofit, but they could keep it in mind for when they run future deep level lines or do major repairs on existing ones.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Pfft...

          Run some refrigerant behind the walls and use it to heat nearby buildings in the winter.

          Technically that's feasible using heat pumps, and you're then using the tube walls as a ground heat store. Unfortunately the fluid and heat complexities of doing this are considerable just in terms of planning the heat loops, making sure the system can heat the buildings properly, etc. And I've some considerable experience in heat networks, and I'm confident that it would never be economically feasible. If you cool the tube walls, you need to move that to a long term heat store (logically a patch of ground a considerable distance away, up or down), then you need to take that out in winter via another heat pump. If the heat abstraction exceeds the heat input, you permanently chill the ground - get that wrong and the recovery time to be useable can be measured in decades, meaning the system is economically a total writeoff, go the other way and the heat pumps cannot cool the tube walls.

          There is however a simpler approach that might work, and that is to use the piston effect to clear air through the underground system. You might think this already happens, with the gale of an approaching tube train, but in practice when a train pushes air into the station, it merely "short circuits" to a train travelling the opposite way, so very little air actually leaves the system. A "brush seal" half way between stations would work wonders to enhance air flow without exacerbating the gale effect on the platform, but they'd need to make station modifications to stop the air recirculating. This isn't actually that hard if there's the sort of access control doors seen eg at Westminster station, which could be easily modified to seal off the tunnel from the platform. The pressure levels aren't that great, the seal doesn't need to be anywhere near airtight, and they could make better use of this to clear warm air through the existing ventilation shafts - potentially even use entire tunnel diaphragms just behind existing ventilation shafts that move out of the way to allow a train to pass (and lightweight enough not to cause a problem if they don't!). Alternatively have powerful fans running against the flow of train traffic rather than diaphragms.

          Personally, I think that could work, wouldn't cost much to operate, but I suspect TfL have put tube cooling firmly in the "too difficult for us" tray, and the fluid mechanics involved would be very complex - my Heath Robinson description would need some serious modelling. Now there's a job for machine learning.

  10. BobC

    I'm Too Old: I Thought The Headline Meant 4G in My TV.

    Sigh. The "boob tube" hasn't had tubes for ages.

  11. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge
    Big Brother

    More opportunities for tracking

    by TfL, mobile companies, Google, FB, FBI, BBC, CIA, MI5, CI5, MFI, KFC etc *

    ...purely for research purposes.

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/09/london_tube_tracking_trial_may_make_commuting_less_miserable/

    (* probably a bit off the mark on those TLAs)

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    In the mean time, in Eastern Europe...

    Here in Bucharest (that is in Romania, where all these immigrants that are taking your highly paid jobs picking potatoes and strawberries are coming from) we have had 3G for almost 6-7 years everywhere in the Tube (access areas, escalators, shops, in the trains, everywhere) Only a handful of dead spots remain and they are known to everybody in some specific places between far-apart stations. In the mean time the network (i.e. the Tube 3G) has begone to gradually upgrade to 4G). Oh, and at home, I have Gigabit fibre, that is real 865MBps download and real 500MBps upload. Planning to formally protest to the telco, as the download is supposed to be 1Gbps (speed tested via links to UK test servers).

    I remember back in 1999 when we were testing in Manchester Uni one of the first ADSL links in the north west. What hopes we had back then...

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