back to article Man prosecuted for posting a picture of his hobby on Facebook

A man was prosecuted for posting a picture of himself on Facebook posing with airsoft equipment. Christopher Turnbull, of Grangemouth, Scotland, was charged with a criminal offence for posting the picture, which was seen by a Stuart Brodie of Police Scotland. The 45-year-old was eventually cleared at Falkirk Sheriff Court ( …

  1. Marcel
    Big Brother

    Laws

    Also, having laws that prosecute people because something is "grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing" is asking for trouble. It is very subjective and easily abused to prosecute basically anyone at any time.

    The sad thing is that these laws are often the result of citizens calling on the government to "do something" about something they don't like or don't understand (and can't be bothered to). For politicians it's a cheap way to please voters and get elected next time. Too bad such laws are often the basis for totalitarian regimes.

    1. The Indomitable Gall

      Re: Laws

      In this case, I suspect it all arises from the glorification of paramilitary violence in Northern Ireland by a subset of residents of the greater Glasgow area -- it's an issue that hasn't always been tackled as strongly as it should have, but there is always a danger of overcompensating as we can see here.

      The description of the picture as "black combat gear" brings it into the realms of possibility that this did look a lot like a republican or unionist paramilitary. But then again, Grangemouth isn't in greater Glasgow.

      All in all, while the plods in question can be excused for flagging up the image for further investigation, the fact that their superiors saw fit to push for charges rather than dropping it is just ludicrous.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Laws

        > But then again, Grangemouth isn't in greater Glasgow.

        Don't underestimate Glasgow's greatness.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Proper weapons

      In the Czech Republic it is not rare to see people on Facebook flashing their own arsenal of real firearms, including assault rifles and the like. Over there nobody bats an eye but I guess it would give the labdicks a heart attack.

      1. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge

        Re: Proper weapons

        Open carry in many parts of the USA. It's not rare to see someone with a holstered pistol* on their belt or the occasional M-16 slung walking into the local supermarket.

        *Personally, I think it's kind of stupid. If someone is up to no good, they will take out the obvious threats (armed citizens) first. Me? I'm just a harmless looking dweeb with a stupid looking oversized fanny pack.

        1. StargateSg7

          Re: Proper weapons

          It won't be an M16 (which is a fully automatic Machine Gun!) unless from earlier than 1983.

          All states fully automatic weapons such as the M16 or M4 are illegal ...BUT....the Semi-automatic

          AR-15 which LOOKS VERY MUCH LIKE an M16 IS fully legal to carry around on your back in

          many states!

          And in the USA, it is perfectly alright to carry your typical Glock 9mm, Colt 45

          and Smith & Wesson .357 handgun wherever you like (open carry of course!)

          You need a CCP (Concealed Carry Permit) in many states to have your gun

          hidden in your jacket BUT open carry strapped to your hip in a VISIBLE holster

          like an 1880's gunslinger is PERFECTLY ALRIGHT in many parts of the USA!

          Thank You 2nd Amendment!

          The 2nd Amendment (The right to Bear Arms) ENSURES the sanctity

          of the 1st Amendment (The Right to Free Speech and Freedom of Assembly)

          and all others, so I can ASSURE YOU that ANY attempt to remove or hinder the

          2nd Amendment ABSOLUTELY WILL RESULT in REMOVAL BY FORCE

          IF NECESSARY of those responsible from holding ANY County, State or

          Federal political office within the United States...AND I ABSOLUTELY

          SUPPORT AND STAUNCHLY DEFEND the tenets the 2nd Amendment

          of The United States Constitution !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Proper weapons

            No, FFS No!

            The 2nd amendment in no way protects the 1st amendment.

            The 2nd amendment allows for the formation of a 'A well regulated Militia' to protect the US from the time before a significant US Army, it has zero relevance to today and anyone who believes their "right to bear Arms" will in any shape or form protect them from the US government is by definition delusional enough that they should be prevented from owning a gun.

            As another poster already said, "open carry is the ultimate form of douchbaggery", grow up, you missed the Wild West, get over it.

            1. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge

              Re: Proper weapons

              "The 2nd amendment in no way protects the 1st amendment."

              I never said it did.

              "The 2nd amendment allows for the formation of a 'A well regulated Militia' to protect the US from the time before a significant US Army"

              The USA formed a standing army before the 2nd Amendment was written. However, states are prohibited from arming 'militias' by our constitution. That is reserved to the US Congress (and implemented only in the form of National Guards). So the states were effectively banned from arming any sorts of police forces* until the second amendment fixed this by ensuring that they are free to employ armed members of the general population. The right to bear arms is attached to the people, not membership in any local government entity.

              *Some states used to refer to their highway patrols as 'state militia'.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Proper weapons

                My reply was to StargateSg7 who stated:

                "The 2nd Amendment (The right to Bear Arms) ENSURES the sanctity

                of the 1st Amendment (The Right to Free Speech and Freedom of Assembly)"

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Proper weapons

          > *Personally, I think it's kind of stupid.

          To put it mildly, open carry is douchebaggery at the greatest level.

          Although Czech gun laws are actually more permissive than in many parts of North America (provided you can pass a strict exam), the gun culture is radically different and bears no comparison. Also, although most licence-holders have category E (self-defence) in their permits, it is actually very uncommon for people to regularly carry firearms, and socially it is frowned upon to do so without a plausible excuse, apart from being a faff.

          1. Paul Hovnanian Silver badge

            Re: Proper weapons

            "To put it mildly, open carry is douchebaggery at the greatest level."

            Maybe. But I understand the point that is trying to be made. The anti-gun crowd's tactics include triggering terror in the general population in the presence of a gun. Carrying in plain sight is simply an attempt to counter this by acclimating the population to their presence.

            Concealed carry is pretty common in my town. But most people don't know how to spot it (there are at least two persons other then myself carrying in the coffee shop this morning). So the thought that a weapon is present can still be depended upon to trigger emotional responses and garner political support for more restrictions.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Proper weapons

              If Las Vegas didn't make you realize how stupid open carry and the "the only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun (excluding police & army etc.)" mentality then nothing will, imagine if all those "good guys" at the concert had pulled out their (concealed carry or not) weapons and tried to return fire, how many more would have died and how many of them would have been shot by the police?

              You don't live in the old West, stop trying to pretend you're a cowboy.

            2. Kiwi
              Paris Hilton

              Re: Proper weapons

              Concealed carry is pretty common in my town. But most people don't know how to spot it (there are at least two persons other then myself carrying in the coffee shop this morning).

              Why?

              I'm gay. I grew up in a small conservative NZ town. I was beaten (and sometimes worse) often at school, and received abuse from others at times of my life.

              I live in one of the worst parts of Lower Hutt in New Zealand - while not NZ's worst neighbourhood it does have more than it's fair share of gangs and violence.

              Speaking of gangs - my car is the wrong colour for some of them, and my usual clothing colours are wrong for another group of them.

              The most I've come to doing anything defensive is following a mate into Tae Kwon Do when we were in our teens, then carrying it on for about 5 years. I haven't felt the need to practice for a good 20 years, though I have found myself taking on a fighting stance when threatened a while back (old habits and training...).

              Oh, and I love to ride, and I often go for walks late at night, alone. I wouldn't even consider taking a walking stick with me.

              I have to ask what is so fearful about your life that makes you think it is worth carrying a gun? Why not move to a safer location? I'm sure, despite the orange roughy, you have some places in the US that are still safe to live? If not, can you sell up and move elsewhere? I hear the citizens of Syria, as a general rule, don't feel a need to carry weapons on their person.

              Just trying to come to grips on why people feel the need for these things.

              Oh, and yes, I have fired guns and growing up in a small conservative town meant I was shooting before I started school. I can remember firing a .22 from a prone position because I was too small to hold the thing otherwise. Target was an ice-cream container tacked on a wooden backstop that was then sitting against a dirt bank. Last time I fired was on a hunting trip. Haven't yet fired a pistol; may do so on a range at some stage, but they're not so great for hunting with so have little attraction for me, same for large calibre weapons (that don't so much kill as make mince-meat (unusable unfortunately) out of the target).

              Paris because she probably likes cute guys with big guns as well, and is probably as confused as I am!

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Proper weapons

            "To put it mildly, open carry is douchebaggery at the greatest level."

            I'll call bullshit on this: Police and Army do that all the time, so they are douchebags? All of them?

            Concealed weapons are much more dangerous to everyone. How often have you seen criminals having guns in side holster á la police? Never?

            Basic fear mongering tactics 'gunmans kills everyone if guns are allowed'.

            Same stupidity here in North banned knives but in practise only open carry knives were banned as one fits in pocket nicely. Absolute stupidity.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Proper weapons

              Riiiiiiight because you don't understand the clear difference in context, so try this, if you want to 'open carry' because you feel inadequate then join the Police or Army and actually make a difference in the real world rather than just in your head.

    3. Nick Kew
      Alert

      Traditional

      Also, having laws that prosecute people because something is "grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing" is asking for trouble. It is very subjective and easily abused to prosecute basically anyone at any time.

      That's traditional.

      One generation ago: The Romans in Britain.

      Two generations ago: Lady Chatterley.

      etc.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

    4. JimboSmith Silver badge

      Re: Laws

      Also, having laws that prosecute people because something is "grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing" is asking for trouble. It is very subjective and easily abused to prosecute basically anyone at any time.

      So you've not heard of the Scottish Extreme Smut Law

      A spokesman told us: "We do not publicly disclose our prosecution policy in relation to specific offences as to do so may allow offenders to adapt or restrict their behaviour to conduct which falls short of our prosecution threshold."

      So that clears that up then.

      The sad thing is that these laws are often the result of citizens calling on the government to "do something" about something they don't like or don't understand (and can't be bothered to). For politicians it's a cheap way to please voters and get elected next time. Too bad such laws are often the basis for totalitarian regimes.

      That's Daily Mail Politics in a nutshell. Pick a topic the Daily Mail have got their knickers in a twist over and pass a law banning, restricting, deporting etc. it/them etc. Instant votes.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

        1. JimboSmith Silver badge

          Re: Laws

          Not in Scotland apparently but I don't think it's been tested in a court yet! It will be interesting if it does ever get tested because the defence could argue that the defendant couldn't know what was illegal. I suppose we should be grateful it doesn't apply to all offences.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    Cosplay banned in Scotland?

    Beware of your Star War weapons, or LOTR armours! I'd like to see the first Stormtrooper in front of judge, though...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Cosplay banned in Scotland?

      You're fine, so long a Leia doesn't have the chain around her and chewbacca isn't wearing handcuffs, in which case you're on the sex offenders register sunshine.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Cosplay banned in Scotland?

        Interesting, would a cosplay of Wee Jimmy Krankie get you on the sex offenders register?

        1. d3vy

          Re: Cosplay banned in Scotland?

          "Interesting, would a cosplay of Wee Jimmy Krankie get you on the sex offenders register?"

          Never mind a register, that annoying turd and anyone pretending to be them should be shot.

    2. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

      Re: Cosplay banned in Scotland?

      That would call for the Chewbacca defense.

      1. Sir Runcible Spoon

        Re: Cosplay banned in Scotland?

        Can you can forget all about Halloween in Scotland now then? A Jason mask and accessories would surely count as going equipped for mass-murder (but only a crime if a picture of it is posted on facebook?)

  3. SkippyBing

    If they're going after people posting pictures of themselves with firearms that's about half the armed forces they'll be wanting to question.

  4. alain williams Silver badge

    Ian Rankin is dangerous!

    Beware discussing an Inspector Rebus novel on a public forum. If you do so then you risk McCopper deciding that you are researching how to carry out some heinous crime.

    1. defiler

      Re: Ian Rankin is dangerous!

      You're probably easier catching Rankin in the pub around these parts :)

  5. Dave 126 Silver badge

    Because when I was a teenager in the nineties UK BB pistols were ubiquitous, I didn't feel that threatened when a teenager in a Bolivian side street pointed a pistol at me ten years ago, after failing to grab my shoulder bag. My drunken brain was slowly trying to work if it was a real firearm or not, perhaps prompted by the lad's posture. Then he hit me over the head with it. Thankfully I was wearing an Argentinian leather cowboy hat with a stiff crown, so I wasn't hurt. My Spanish is poor, so I shouted Fuck Off! loudly and repeatedly and he ran off.

    Local staff at the hostel seemed genuinely shocked, as Bolivians often said that sort of incident is more of a Peruvian thing.

  6. CraPo

    Same guy?

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/566365/Police-officers-rescue-toddler-Noah-unconscious

  7. scrubber
    Big Brother

    No-one could ever have seen this coming

    The Scottish nanny state government have been expanding thought crimes for years.

    You will conform dear citizen. Resistance is futile.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    skirmish site

    I went out in Grangemouth on a weekend night a few years ago - IIRC, the whole place was a skirmish site

    1. Sweep

      Re: skirmish site

      yon's a dump

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    There's a bit of a logic fail here.

    If I had a weapon and wanted to commit a crime the last thing I would do is post a picture of said weapon and myself on Fartbook.

    Can we rename common sense to something else as it's not exactly common anymore if it ever was?

    1. teebie

      If you wanted to commit a crime there's a decent chance you wouldn't have the wit/impulse control to not post a picture of yourself with a weapon on facebook.

    2. kain preacher

      "If I had a weapon and wanted to commit a crime the last thing I would do is post a picture of said weapon and myself on Fartbook."

      We have had idiots video them self committing crimes and live streaming on face book.

      People have posted pics of crimes on face book too.

      "There's a bit of a logic fail here.

      I agree.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Yeah, on second thought I hadn't included the "idiot" syndrome.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I once heard of a group going to an airsoft event in N. Ireland (late nineties or early noughties I think). There was trouble in some estate they were passing and the army had thrown up a checkpoint. When asked is there anything in the car we should know about there was an 'ummm, in the boot but none of it's real,' squeaked out of one of the nervous passengers and the squaddie had a look. Then they were swarmed with all the soldiers coming over to look enviously at their kit as they had more guns, grenades and body armour. After admiring their arsenal and checked it was all airsoft stuff, they were let on their way.

    BTW some of the airsoft rifles are powerful enough that if you modded them to be automatic they would require a firearms license but that’s a different kettle of fish.

    Anon as I don’t want to waste months of my life on a nonsense charge.

    1. Peter2 Silver badge

      I'm a former airsofter. You've been misinformed on the last bit and there's no need to give the "ban airsoft" crowd ammunition. :)

      Airsoft rifles can't legally be over 328fps muzzle velocity with a .2g bb as this is 1 joule of imparted energy when something is hit, and at <1joule then the home office consider it a toy on the basis that it takes 1.3 joules to break the skin.

      Anything over 1 joule makes it an air rifle, not a s1 firearm. Semi or auto makes no difference. This explains it usefully:-

      http://www.mileoakshootingclub.co.uk/8.html

      So by the formula on his site to get a airsoft rifle firing a .2gram plastic BB to >12 foot pounds you'd have to take the muzzle velocity from about 300 FPS to something like 1500FPS, which is something like mach 1.3. That's not even remotely acheivable from an airsoft rifle with a spring; the maximum acheivable is less than half that.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Paintball markers are proper weapons

        None of your air-softy bullshit.

        Legal restrictions on air rifles limit the maximum fps of a standard paintball to 300, and to be honest if you tried to fire one at a higher velocity they would mostly just explode in the barrel.

        There are also electronic triggers out there that allow certain combinations of trigger-press to put them into full-auto mode (usually at a rate of around 15 balls per second).

        All of which is limited by the fact that a paintball is very *soft*. They have the ability to fire other types of projectile, ones that wouldn't explode at higher than 300fps. Doing that would make them firearms, and since they wouldn't be recognised as such there is no chance of adding one to your licence, so very illegal whichever way you want to cut it.

        However, the limits of the paintball markers themselves go way above 300fps.

        I don't know what kind of energy a 0.68" nylon bearing fired at 500 fps would have*, but with 15 of them coming at you every second (and a hopper that holds 250 them) you can see that they have a lot more potential than air-soft.

        *Turns out to be roughly 188 ft-lb/255 Joule

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Paintball markers are proper weapons

          the simplest (accidental) change to a paintball marker (gun) is to undo the gas tank by 1/4 to 1/2 a turn.

          this puts the dip tube of the tank in liquid CO2 rather than gaseous which in turn give a bigger punch when firing

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Paintball markers are proper weapons

          I hear frozen paintballs aren't nearly as soft, and can be explained away more easily than a nylon ball bearing or other sort of projectile.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        If I ever run in him again I'll let him know. At my first event he was the only one with his own kit and boasted about how much better his single shot rifle was and that if he modded it to auto fire, it would need a firearms license. It fairness it was far more accurate and could shot much, much further and hurt more than anything the event provided. Plenty of skin broken though and lots of swelling and bruising.

      3. _HeliX

        As of 2011, the rule is 1.3 joules for anything capable of full-auto (approx 370fps on 0.2g bbs), or 2.5joules on anything semi-auto. The 1j limit almost came in, by way of removing specific mention of Airsoft from the Policing and Crime act, but this was fought hard against, and airsoft is still in there specifically now, and recognised as a pastime.

      4. 8-{>

        The new Policing and Crime Act 2017 (PCA 2017) which came in to force in May 2017 changed that. Fully automatic Airsoft weapons now have a legal limit of 1.3 Joules and Single action/semi automatic airsoft weapons have a legal limit of 2.5 Joule. Above 2.5 J a single action / semi-auto legally becomes a an Air Weapon. Above 1.3J and capable of full auto an airsoft weapon becomes a Section 5 firearm. (Air weapons cannot be fully automatic without becoming a Section 5 firearm.) NI and Scotland have different rules.

        1. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

          "Above 1.3J and capable of full auto an airsoft weapon becomes a Section 5 firearm."

          The law has recently (Since the VCRA) become a bit of an ass in this respect. I have a some air rifles, and a couple of air pistols. The latter are modelled on real world pistols (one S&W 686, and one Beretta 92), try and buy an airsoft version that's not a funny colour though, and it's a different kettle of fish, and you need UKARA membership. I find it odd that lower powered plinkers have more restrictions.

          I'd also love to know if the VCRA has done the 'R' bit, I suspect not, and would think criminals would now be pointing air pistols at people, instead of airsofts, but hey.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Anarcho-Tyranny

    Going after little problems with full force and arbitrary laws while studiously ignoring growing societal problems and the continuing decay of the body politic.

    1. The Indomitable Gall

      Re: Anarcho-Tyranny

      As I've just commented elsewhere in this thread, it's more complicated than that.

      In the past, Scotland hasn't always done enough to counter the glorification of paramilitary violence in Northern Ireland (and a disproportionate amount of what was traditionally done was against pro-republicans, while Rangers fans were still happily waving UVF banners at matches with impunity).

      There's good reason to worry about people posing for pictures in "black combat gear", and I don't have a problem with them investigating when an image like that is presented to them. The problem here is that they didn't drop it as soon as they discovered it was someone playing a game of tig.

      But the glorification of the Norn Irn situation has been a major societal problem for decades, even if mostly concentrated in Glasgow, and while the law is clearly overbroad, there is still a need to be able to stop genuine glorification of terrorist violence.

      Oh, and politics comes into it to, because sectarianism has historically influenced all sorts of things, through HR hiring policies to party candidate nominations.

      Don't get me wrong, I do think the law here is a mistake, and that the police officers involved acted like total muppets, but I do recognise that we have to look beyond that and look at the whole thing in context.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Nazi

    They'll be prosecuting people for teaching their dogs to do a nazi salute next....... just best avoid the UK.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Nazi

      Only if it's a German Shepherd.

    2. Korev Silver badge

      Re: Nazi

      Didn't someone nearly get done in Oxford a few years ago for insulting a Police horse? I can't seem to find a link though.

      1. Mike Ozanne

        Re: Nazi

        "Didn't someone nearly get done in Oxford a few years ago for insulting a Police horse? I can't seem to find a link though."

        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/4606022.stm

        1. Korev Silver badge

          Re: Nazi

          Ta.

        2. Kiwi
          Flame

          Re: Nazi

          "Didn't someone nearly get done in Oxford a few years ago for insulting a Police horse? I can't seem to find a link though."

          http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/4606022.stm

          Bloody hell. Talk about a worthless pig taking a personal vendetta! Back then the term "gay" was often used by teens (and those not very far past their teens) to express a mild dislike/disappointment ("No internet till I've done my homework? Gay!"), at least around here. Only the super-sensitive or those who make Daily Mail readers look like laid-back types would get offended at someone using it.

          The cop involved there clearly had an issue, and was clutching at the best straw he had to inflict some misery on a relatively innocent kid who upset the poor wee lassie.

          No wonder those of us who've seen their true nature call them "pigs" - when we're being nice.

          1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

            Re: Nazi

            This reminds me of Plebgate!

            The UK plod seem a lot more interested in protecting their touchy egos than actually fighting crime and antisocial behaviour.

      2. Kiwi
        Trollface

        Re: Nazi

        Didn't someone nearly get done in Oxford a few years ago for insulting a Police horse?

        I think it was a case of insulting a horse's arse, in saying the copper in question was acting like one.

        ICBW.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Nazi

      They'll be prosecuting people for teaching their dogs to do a nazi salute next

      Woof justice

      1. d3vy

        Re: Nazi

        @Annon

        "Woof justice"

        I think you mean ruff justice.

  13. Mystic Megabyte
    Holmes

    Fail

    A couple of years ago I was involved in a search for a missing fisherman. When his body was found a couple of plods were flown by helicopter from Glasgow to "investigate". Having only been issued with the "Junior Detective Kit" they asked to borrow our camera! We never did get the SD card back :(

  14. Commswonk

    Forthcoming Attraction...

    From the article: Turnbull was charged with posting pictures and videos that were "grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing manner, in that they depicted [Turnbull] in possession of a cache of firearms and explosives".

    How long before we see the following: [redacted] was charged with posting pictures and videos that were "grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing manner, in that they depicted [redacted] in possession of a pie containing a meat product.

    At this rate not long, I suspect. Those living in Wigan had better watch out.

  15. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Adam 52 Silver badge

      Your second to last paragraph is often true. There is a mindset that goes:

      1. Is this person being naughty?

      2. If yes, what powers do we have to deal with it.

      It's not normally a bad thing, but quite often it doesn't work well when morals and the law clash.

      FWIW there's a "naturist" near me who likes to stand in the window rubbing his cock when the school kids are walking to and from school... should the local Police leave him be or try to "get him"?

      If they do nothing you'll blame them if he does let his fantasies get the better of him (Police were warned many times...), if they do you'll moan about Police threatening innocent naturists. So it's a no-win situation.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

  16. Florida1920

    Comment from an American

    It's cases like this that keep the NRA alive in the U.S. Their mantra has long been, "No matter how 'reasonable' the anti-gun movement proclaims their intentions, they will never stop. First it's firearm magazines, the next thing you know, you're being done for an Airsoft." Cases like this one go a long way toward proving their point, regardless of where you stand on gun ownership.

  17. Alistair
    Windows

    I see a personal grudge, or a serious dick *somewhere* in this mess.

    Hmm.

    I dunno about Scotland so much, however the AirSoft devices my eldest have are like hell made out of plastic, nor do they use springs as firing mechanisms. The name makes it pretty clear what they use to fire those balls with.

    And he *has* mucked with it and gotten the pistol muzzle velocity up over 328fps. Mind you after it popped two sandbags and I made him clean that up he choked it back. And despite more than a few months of practice I'm still 45% more accurate than him on a stationary target. (75 ft range)

    Still and all, the groups over here are pretty damned harsh on modders that overramp and to get in any playfield they get to test your device before you go out.

    This cop and the Sheriff/judge both need a swat, it is after all a (slightly weird) "sport", not a "terrorist" organization.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    wow,. now i know to avoid scotlund like the plague

    is it because scots are short that makes them this daft?

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: wow,. now i know to avoid scotlund like the plague

        Was it the Grey Horse in Edinburgh?

  19. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
    Holmes

    Wimoweh

    I sleep safe in my bed knowing rough men stand ready in the night to protect us from those who would not harm us.

    I can understand the police having concern that people are dressing up like terrorists and mass killers, totting 'firearms and other weaponry', but it should end at that once it becomes obvious that it is misplaced concern. This is simply prosecution and persecution for a non-crime.

    It doesn't help that the police often seem reluctant to go after those who are a demonstrable threat to society and who do have harm in mind.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Angel

    Meanwhile ..

    .. the British gov't's own website:

    http://army.mod.uk/

  21. Harry Stottle

    Malicious Prosecution

    I trust m' learned friends will be advising the victim of his right to sue for Malicious Prosecution

    Looks to me like this case would fit the definition almost precisely...

  22. Milton

    It's the Age of Stupid

    In the Age of Stupid, you get people who should know better doing and saying the most bonkers and cretinous things. And they're not all US presidents, either.

    Common sense is often over-rated, but when it is completely missing—wow, you do notice.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  23. Britt

    As an occasional air-softer, I have played against ex/current military and they enjoy the chance to use their skills (rather successfully)against some of us plebeians. I do be leave I've played against some firearms officers in the past too.

    They must all be face palming at this.

    I've done my patriotic duty by being the (crappy) hard target for them to practise against.

    I'm wondering what storm in a teacup will be brewed up next in somebodies vendetta against fun.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  24. imaginarynumber

    Poor bastard

    Knowing that you are innocent is no guarantee that you won't end up with a criminal record which might potentially ruin your life.

    I hope that he sues them. It must have been incredibly stressful.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    How very national socialist

    I can assure El Reg readers that after 10 long years of SNP corruption, cronyism and bungling, every public service in Scotland is a shambles.

    The SNP elite and nomenklatura are creaming off £M in ways that would make President Mugabe blush, although even the Chinese walked away from a £10B scam such was the SNP incompetence.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Dodged a bullet there

    I once had a polite request to build a "device"! for the local Airsoft folks.

    Needless to say it never got built though have the "ice cube" VFD tubes and suchlike here.

    The annoying thing is it would have been a paid job, only ever used for the game and not threatening in the slightest although might have freaked out Mr Random Passer-by as it had quite a lot of wiring, blinkenlights and "Undo the red wire from terminal A, etc" ie full blown defusing required not merely typing in a code on a pad.

  27. Hans 1
    FAIL

    Basically, it would have been illegal to pose with live firearms on social media ?

    I hate guns, of any kind, even these pre-teen toys, but Feynman, unless you have some text on or around the post with some explicit text like: "Let's take on the Police", "Preparing for the next mass shooting" or "ISIS are as gay as I am!" .. I do not think it is offensive in any way ... you just look at the age of the individual and above the age of 11 you know it's a moron (maybe needs some surveillance) ... some Rambo fan ... How on earth have we got to this ???????

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hah. I have a picture of me holding a Glock G17 and firing it on a range.

    I also have a picture and video of me shooting my 12 gauge shotgun.

    Never had any issue and not sure what law this violates either.

    It certainly is not against facebook policy...

  29. Mr Dogshit

    "Conducting himself in a disorderly manner"

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7095134.stm

    1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      Re: "Conducting himself in a disorderly manner"

      Just don't understand how this is punishable? Are there some sex toys that are legal, and some that aren't? Or are all illegal? Seems very British this verdict somehow..

  30. GrumpyKiwi

    This really does say to me that an independent Scotland would be a miserable bureaucratic and generally nasty nanny-state - worse even than Australia. I feel rather sorry for its citizens.

  31. Seajay#

    It never ceases to amaze me how confident people are that the judge is an idiot despite knowing nothing about the case.

    If this was a picture of him smiling with his airsoft weapon under a banner that says "12th annual airsoft picnic" then this case would be outrageous.

    If this was a picture of him in in a balaclava holding a weapon with the caption, "I'm coming for you proddy bastards" then it would undoubtedly be of a "menacing character". Since he was being tried for menacing communication, not for posing a real threat, the fact the gun was a toy is irrelevant. If you can't tell its a toy, the picture is equally menacing.

    I have no more idea than anyone else what the picture actually showed but since the magistrate was convinced, I think it's pretty likely we're talking about picture 2.

    1. anonymous boring coward Silver badge

      Sorry. Still an idiot.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      " If you can't tell its a toy, the picture is equally menacing."

      When the picture description specifially defines it as a toy. Except the police decided to lose the description (they had seen and knew was there) for the prosecution. That's a**hattery.

      We see pictures of armed americans (or other nationalities) in FB every day, claiming they are 'menacing' is quite absurd. I've seen many pics where people have tanks and heavy artillery too, are those also 'menacing'?

  32. Andromeda451

    Just remember children

    The government is your friend and they will protect you from all those bad guys.

  33. Kiwi

    Apology esp @Adam 52

    My family has experienced great pain at the hands of certain members of the police and their prosecution team. I am aware of several other cases in NZ.

    This does not excuse my comments (which I'll allow to stand to show how much of an idiot I've been!).

    To all readers of El Reg, especially Adam 52 who has taken some of that more directly, I apologise. I also apologise to any members of the police who are there for the right reasons and trying to do the right job in difficult circumstances.

    1. MonkeyCee

      Re: Apology esp @Adam 52

      @Kiwi

      The NZ cops are a real mixed bag these days. There where some seriously corrupt officers in the past, and there's a bit of a hangover legacy from them. There is also a new generation who despise the previous lot. You get to see the resulting bunfight whenever one of the old guard starts angling for a top position, and they either get told to foxtrot oscar or their nasty deeds will find their way into the dom post.

      The NZ cops also have terrible legal advice. They often manage to fuck up evidence gathering, get told by the courts why it was a fuckup* and then carry on doing the same thing. Then when the prosecution falls over due to the dodgy evidence, they just carry on doing the same.

      In the late 80's, a kiwi friend of mine was walking on oriental parade in wellytown, when a cop car with three fellows in drove onto the footpath. One cop hopped out, told my friend to get lost, and grabbed the chap they had been looking for (apparently). The two cops in the car backed it up, and parked up about 50m down the road, facing away from the first cop.

      My mate then backs up a bit, takes out his notepad (OG roleplayer) and starts writing down what's happening. First cop gets pretty physical with their suspect (shoving him into a park bench, yelling in his face, grabbing by the throat), other cops look the other way, turning round every so often to check things haven't gotten out of hand.

      After 20 minutes or so, the angry cop leaves the suspect, makes some muttered comment to my mate, and walks back to the cop car, and the fine fella's in blue drive off. My mate goes and talks to the (rather distressed) chap, and gives him his details saying he will back him up.

      Fast forward nine months, complaint has been made about the cops conduct, my mate is in court being questioned by the police brief. After a bit of verbal foreplay, the lawyer suggests that my mates recall of the events is wrong, and the police version of three of them questioning a mentally unstable agitated suspect is correct. My friend produced his notepad, and went through the series of events, contradicting the cops story with highly specific testimony. Cops brief went white when he saw the notepad.

      The cops story relied on the cop car being parked in a fairly specific spot, since they where clear about where they had come from, when they saw the suspect, and how they pulled up (and all supposedly left the car), and how they hadn't done a u-turn and where parked facing the "wrong" way. Unfortunately for them, there where roadworks at the time, so there was only a single direction in which they could have parked (and also why they had driven onto the pavement).

      In the end, complaint upheld, assorted charges against the chap where dropped, administrative punishment for the cops involved. My mate got pulled over a lot in the next few years, but other than speeding and thoughtcrime he's a pretty well behaved chap.

      Quite a few years later, my friend saw a picture of one of the cops who had been in the car. He'd just been convicted for perverting the course of justice by deliberately causing a second mistrial in a very public case involving (you guessed it) NZ cops on trial. Good to see that some things never change.

      If you're in NZ and you're not sure which breed of cop you've got, always opt for the lady officer. They tend to be smart, capable and actually able to deal with certain entrenched criminal elements. After dealing with the shit they get from colleagues, dealing with proper crims is a walk in the park :)

      * in public, a civvy can take pictures of anything that doesn't invade someones privacy. The cops need a warrant or court order so that the recordings can be evidence. The cops where getting away with this for about 15 years until it was challenged in a political case (terrorism).

      1. Kiwi
        Pint

        Re: Apology esp @ Monkeycee

        Hey there,

        My posts are "awaiting moderation" so I hope not to further tread on any toes :)

        I know Oriental Parade fairly well, having both worked and lived in the area (sadly not in a building, I did a short "between houses" stint like many in this country have done recently :( )

        I have met a mixed bag of officers in my time, some really decent people, some nasty, some nasty to idiot cops but nice to helpful members of the public, some older and some younger (mostly older ones for the nicer ones, ones who would've been prosecuting their wayward fellows I guess). Both the nicest and nastiest I've met have been female officers, but I haven't met a nasty female officer since I was in my teens (that may explain something ;) ).

        The case you mention actually rings some vague bells, but I couldn't say for sure. Possibly a similar case. I have had an officer tell me to stop writing while he was talking during a traffic stop, and I told him I was taking notes in case it went to court, he changed tack PDQ. I too faced a number of traffic stops for a few weeks after that stop, interestingly enough.

        I'd probably better hold my tongue around these parts for a while though, I have little nice to say about our fine lads and ladettes in blue, and I think I've ruffled a few feathers here :)

        1. GrumpyKiwi

          Re: Apology esp @ Monkeycee

          As a FAL holder, the worst cops to deal with around here are the ex-British ones. They really don't get it that firearms laws here are different and that "because I feel like it" isn't a valid reason to stop something. Unfortunately we seem to have gotten the ones that are very good at climbing the ladder/floating to the top.

  34. MartinB105

    I wonder what kind of trouble I'd be in?

    I've posted photos of myself on Facebook holding actual, real weapons: AK-47, AR-15, Magnum 357, CZ-75, 12 Gauge Shotgun, Uzi and a TIGR Dragunov sniper rifle. I even had one of these photos as my profile picture for a good few months.

    (I visited a shooting range in Prague while on holiday a few years ago. I also no longer live in the UK, so I'm not really concerned about sharing this information here)

  35. Goit
    Black Helicopters

    Shi™! I have videos of me at a shooting range in Florida... Should I be worried?

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I know it's a hobby

    I do not understand why people think posing with guns is smart or attractive, in the real world such behaviour just makes you a target.

    1. TonyJ

      Re: I know it's a hobby

      "I know it's a hobby..."

      Here's a thing. He wasn't posing with firearms he was posing with what is effectively a toy. For his hobby.

      There are pictures of my in diving or climbing gear I've posed for.

      One of my friends races cars for a hobby...guess what...?

      Context is key.

  37. razorfishsl

    What is sadder?

    1.He was prosecuted for a picture of a toy gun.

    2. He enjoys being Walter Mitty

  38. TonyJ

    Hmm..seems to have been some very heavy handed moderation going on here.

    Why, Reg?

    Some of the comments I recall (including my own) were not even vaguely inflammatory...just questioning motives.

    1. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

      Re: TonyJ

      It's a sensitive legal case. We may have to moderate comments for legal reasons.

      C.

      1. TonyJ

        Re: TonyJ

        Diodesign..surely it "was" a sensitive case? He was cleared.I could understand if it were an ongoing case.

        Sad state when the veracity and capability of our police forces can't be questioned after even a judge has made comments about things like the handling of evidence.

        1. Kiwi

          Re: TonyJ

          Diodesign..surely it "was" a sensitive case? He was cleared.I could understand if it were an ongoing case.

          Possibly something around the accused-now-cleared seeking compensation?

          1. TonyJ

            Re: TonyJ

            "...Possibly something around the accused-now-cleared seeking compensation?..."

            Doubt it - nothing commented was outside of what you could read on any other newspaper site.

            Hey ho. I don't want El Reg getting into any hotwater. It was idle curiosity.

    2. Kiwi
      Thumb Up

      Hmm..seems to have been some very heavy handed moderation going on here.

      I've had the same as dio mentions in his(?) response from someone else at El Reg. While I'm a bit saddened that my best upvotes post has gone (though I still have the overall votes tally), I do understand and support the reasons I've been given. I've had at least a half a dozen of my own posts removed and a few never made it past moderation.

      Given the current UK political climate, they probably do sometimes have to rein some of us in! :)

  39. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Read this and now google are advertising Guns on my home page

    This is the only time ever, i have even seen the word Airsoft on the internet and now google + think its ok to put adverts for airsoft guns on my google search page (yes, i am signed into google).

    Does this mean that GCHQ and possibly the Scottish police are going to come after me?

    Are the news stories we read and the automated ads that result going to be the "evidence" used to hang us?

    Obviously i have tried to contact google, but they are known for using robots (human ones) to reply. Google play store drones don't compute the term "delete" when you want to remove an app from the play store.

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