Magic Leap sued for sex discrimination … by woman it hired to stamp out sex discrimination

Cementing its reputation as a slow-motion corporate car-crash, made-up technology specialist Magic Leap has been sued for sex discrimination by the woman it hired to tackle sex discrimination. Tannen Campbell filed in a Florida court [PDF] this week accusing the virtual-reality startup of maintaining a "hostile environment" …

[User McUser]

"Wizards Wanted"

[the] jobs page was titled "Wizards wanted," seemingly shutting out women.

Are women not allowed to be wizards?

If so, then someone should let Hermione know before she wastes any more of her time...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: "Wizards Wanted"

Think what would have happened if they wrote "Witches wanted"....

And paying many $$$$$ to have Sandberg and Whitman speaking? Surely it changes things on the spot! And why not Mayer? She will have a lot of time soon as a "motivational speaker".

While many other issues she found looks true, I guess the problem is most of these companies are run by morons. Luckily I worked in workplaces with far less gender issues. And, really, nobody here would think to setup a Google group for "desperate housewives". Maybe because my colleagues spouses have their own jobs.

Probably what US need is mothers and father teaching their son what *respect* means.

[Phil.T.Tipp]

Re: "Wizards Wanted"

It's 'fewer' - not, 'less' 'gender issues'.

Get off yer hobby horse and back to work, sweetcheeks.

[MNGrrrl]

Re: "Wizards Wanted"

> Think what would have happened if they wrote "Witches wanted"....

About the only thing that's going to save the company is black magic, and whose best known for THAT?

[Andrew Moore]

Re: "Wizards Wanted"

>About the only thing that's going to save the company is black magic, and whose best known for THAT?

Rowntrees?

[Bernard M. Orwell]

Re: "Wizards Wanted"

"Probably what US need is mothers and father teaching their son what *respect* means."

But they already are taught that - Demand it from everyone, give it to no one. Thats the American way!

[wayne 8]

Re: "Wizards Wanted"

A guy named "Rony Abovitz" is not representative of American culture.

He looks and sounds like Dov Charney of American Apparel. Minus the public masturbation and blow jobs.

[John H Woods]

Re: "Wizards Wanted"

"If so, then someone should let Hermione know before she wastes any more of her time..."

I'm sure women are allowed to be "Wizards" in the real world but they are not in Harry Potter. At least I'm pretty sure the only difference between Wizard and Witch in potterworld is gender.

[Graham Marsden]

Re: "Wizards Wanted"

> Are women not allowed to be wizards?

Only Eskarina Smith...

[MNGrrrl]

Re: "Wizards Wanted"

> If so, then someone should let Hermione know before she wastes any more of her time...

She was a witch, unless she said "wingardium sexchangeiosa" when i wasn't looking.

[Mr Dogshit]

Re: "Wizards Wanted"

Wizard

noun

1. a male witch or a man who practises or professes to practise magic or sorcery

2. a person who is outstandingly clever in some specified field; expert

3. (obsolete)

a wise man

4. (computing)

a computer program that guides a user through a complex task

adjective

5. (informal , mainly British)

superb; outstanding

6. of or relating to a wizard or wizardry

[Mad Hacker]

You're going to get the Apple treatment from Magic Leap...

Remember when you made fun of Steve Jobs? Now you will probably never hear from Rony Abovitz again.

Although doesn't sound like you'll lose much sleep over that.

[Mark 85]

Re: You're going to get the Apple treatment from Magic Leap...

His temper tantrums and always being "right" remind of someone else well-placed here in the US.

[Rich 11]

Re: You're going to get the Apple treatment from Magic Leap...

And this sounds exactly like a White House press briefing:

As increasing numbers of tech journalists have discovered while trying to pin Rony Abovitz down on what his company has actually produced, he alternates wildly between praise and aggression and refuses to hear anything that sounds like criticism.

[Anonymous Coward]

His temper tantrums and always being "right" ...

I am always right and I only throw tantrums when people won't acknowledge that fact.

[Crazy Operations Guy]

There are two types of Start-up founders

In my experience working with start ups, I've noticed that their founders tend to fall within one of two archetypes:

1) Ambitious and driven folk that need to create their own company to create the product they want

2) Pathetic and self-absorbed assholes that set out on their own because no one wanted to be around them for long.

Pretty sure I know which category Rony fits into...

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: There are two types of Start-up founders

Ok, by all the accounts I have read:

1) Steve Jobs

2) Steve Jobs

Or to put it another way, your terrorist is my freedom fighter.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: There are two types of Start-up founders

Or to put it yet another way, being type #2 isn't the guarantee of failure it normally is if you are ALSO type #1.

[Old Handle]

Assumption Of Risk Doctrine?

If you've been hired to fix a company's sexism problem, wouldn't that mean you go in knowing you'll be working for a sexist company? That would be an interesting defense anyway, no idea if it would work.

[MNGrrrl]

Re: Assumption Of Risk Doctrine?

> If you've been hired to fix a company's sexism problem, wouldn't that mean you go in knowing you'll be working for a sexist company?

Presumably you're expecting to go to work with a management staff that's backing a culture change and will support you. Is this any different than going into a police station with a training manual on restraint of force, and expecting the chief of police won't give you daily beatings? Solutions start from the top down, and getting hired to fix a culture problem isn't exactly a revolutionary idea. But if management won't listen to you, then yes, you have every right to sue the pants off of them... it's still doing your job, JUST NOT IN THE WAY THEY EXPECTED. :D

[RichardB]

What's wrong

with the backs of women's heads?

Also, why do women need a more flexible shaft?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: What's wrong

What's wrong with the backs of women's heads?

The women around here tend to have longer hair than men, and safety requirements for some tasks involving eyewear requires tying it up at the back. Causes all sorts of issues with old single-strap safety goggles. Newer types have a strap that splits into a double-band for the portion going back of the head. Much better unisex design, more comfortable, and easier to mould over any type of unusual headwear as well.

I'm actually surprised ML have not gone that way in the basic strap design. But then this is vapor-warez.

[AMBxx]

Re: What's wrong

That's a great response and shows the real reason we need diversity. It's not for a ticklist, it's to get a broader knowledgebase.

[Mage]

Sexism or stupidity?

The general stupidity seems more terminal than their sexism.

[Potemkine]

Re: Sexism or stupidity?

Sexism or stupidity?

Where's the contradiction?

[Mark 85]

And some say the US doesn't do irony... hire someone to fix the sexism problem and then chase them off with sexual harassment.

[retired_in_london]

Women. Can't work with them. Can't work without them. Or something like that...

[Anonymous Coward]

Women. Can't work with them. Can't work without them. Or something like that...

It's Germans - not women, Major Gowen.

[Steve K]

So the quote is:

Women. Can't work with Germans. Can't work without Germans..

Are you sure?

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll never make a product

... because they can't approach problems correctly:

"How do we make it more appealing to women?"....

seems pretty clear to me the path of least work for me is:

"Maybe ask some women what would make it more appealing?".

[imanidiot]

Re: They'll never make a product

The problem here is that probably most men simply don't have a clue what is actually needed to make something attractive to a women. And from my experience in the workplace oftentimes the women themselves don't know either. Not because they don't know what works for THEM but because women tend to be much more complex/diverse/picky in what drives them and what they want. That's not a bad thing, but it makes designing for women a bit more complex. Note I'm saying this as a man myself but in general, men are relatively simple to understand with only a few main motivational drivers.

[ArrZarr]

Re: They'll never make a product

Men:

1) Does he have beer?

2) Will he share it with me?

Thanks to Jim Butcher for that one.

[John Smith 19]

Magic Leap. Technology from the 22nd Century

Attitudes from the 1950's.

[Anonymous Coward]

Out of interest...

How does one make an augmented reality headset more female friendly?

What does that even mean?

[lglethal]

Re: Out of interest...

Alright I'll bite.

1) Make it more comfortable (i.e. allow for more hairstyle -, as mentioned by an earlier commentard making the strap a double strap fixes a lot of problems easily. Also ensure the size allows it to be comfortable across a wider variety of head sizes and hand sizes (if there's a Controller involved))

2) Make more games that are attractive to female Gamers

3) Create more female charachters and ditch the sexist representations of existing charachters.

That took me about 30 seconds to think of, I'm sure others can add significantly to the list. It's not that hard really.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Out of interest...

Thank you for the prompt reply Iglethal. In order:

1. That's just getting the basic ergonomics of the product right, that's not being female friendly. Men have different head sizes and men have different hair lengths as well. Everyone does.

2. I meant the headset, not whatever is displayed in it, which is surely up to the user of the headset.

3. See 2.

So even after 30 seconds of thought, my question still stands.

[AMBxx]

Re: Out of interest...

1. Go to your local optiician and take a look at male vs female glasses. Yes, there are unisex avaialble, but in general men have bigger heads than women.

Judging by the design of all the VR headsets to date, we're also far less self-aware.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Out of interest...

Headbands that don't allow for the possibility of ponytails or buns can be annoying, and women are more likely to have those kinds of hairstyles than men. Having a twin-strap system means you can put the straps either side of the pontytail/bun, and they tend to be more secure in general anyway.

As for the stuff being displayed in the headset - believe it or not, it does get wearisome only seeing female characters in games that look to have escaped from a male porn addicts wet dreams. And male characters that look like theyve done way too many steroids and have had a personality-ectomy, come to that. I'm not suggesting that video game characters should never meet some definition of sexy, but it'd be nice if there was just more variety, to better relect the range of appearances we see in the real world.

[Anonymous Coward]

Esme - Re: Out of interest...

Paragraph 1 - that's still just basic ergonomics. Make your product fit the person not vice versa.

Paragraph 2 - couldn't agree more. Many of us find these stereotypes and the people who perpetuate them utterly tiring, irritating and demoralising. But I was asking about the headset, because in many fields of product design, the lazy and time worn answer to 'what women want' does seem to be 'smaller, sparkly and pinker'.

[Steve K]

Re: Esme - Out of interest...

.And also on the game side this approach has thrown out things like Ms. PacMan (basically a PacMan sprite with a pink bow....)

[AMBxx]

Re: Esme - Out of interest...

Us oldies who had a ZX Spectrum at school still remember playing Ants - you had the option of whether you wanted to be male or female. You then rescued someone of the opposite sex.

If you updated that to today, you'd probably need some LGBT option too!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Out of interest...

It's a game (or games), if we wanted "the range of appearances we see in the real world." we could just have the "real world".

And surely it's sexist to even imply that women have different head sizes/shapes or desires to men ?

[joeldillon]

Re: Out of interest...

There are plenty of male tech nerds with long hair, though.

(Source: I am a male tech nerd with long hair)

[Mike Taylor]

Re: Out of interest...

Right, and given the vapor like qualities of this product, the demos etc are an intrinsic way in which the values and ambitions of a product are communicated. Weight balance, whether the design is knowing macho / militaristic etc, the use cases down in promotion, all help when trying to engage in communities more diverse than a subset of mostly male gamers / first adopters

[Anonymous Coward]

"Create more female charachters and ditch the sexist representations of existing charachters."

That's have been an issue with any media since their inception. Video games are surely among the worst since they could design women that actually don't exist in reality. I never played games like Lara Croft or others exactly because of that approach, but it looks it has been overlooked for a while, and some actresses also used that "look" for their own advantage...

[Noonoot]

Re: "Create more female charachters and ditch the sexist representations of existing charachters."

Is there a Tom Hardy virtual character available? Preferably reading bed time stories

[Alister]

he began to dig his heels in even more in the face of dissenting ideas and to explode ever more frequently into child-like fits of rage, threatening retribution when he didn't get his way, felt betrayed or was portrayed publicly in an unfavorable light."

I know someone else like that.

[Anonymous Coward]

She sounds like a right tool. Apart from the childish comments, I really don't see the problem here.

[John Smith 19]

"She sounds like a right tool. "

This is the icon you are looking for -->

[TheProf]

I'll see you in court.

Is the phrase 'toxic masculinity' used anywhere in the court document? Or is it just the BBC that continues to make half the world's population feel less welcome than the Ebola virus?

[Martin]

Re: I'll see you in court.

Oh FFS.

I am so sick of men whinging about how hard it is to be male in this world.

It is a piece of piss to be male in this world. Everything is set out for you, every assumption is that you because you are male, you are bright and intelligent (or tough or both). No one would ever say, for example "Ah well, men are useless are reading maps" or "...using technology". And I can think of dozens of other examples.

It's no bloody surprise that women push back hard.

As someone said - a woman has to do a job twice as well as a man to be accepted as being as good as a man. (The joke was - fortunately, that's not hard...!)

Look - just accept it, and be bloody grateful you were born male. Men have it cushy in this world. Don't whinge about the few times when women get a better deal than men.

And just for the avoidance of doubt - I am male.

[codejunky]

Re: I'll see you in court.

@ Martin

"I am so sick of men whinging about how hard it is to be male in this world."

Sorry but I feel the same way about women.

"It is a piece of piss to be male in this world. Everything is set out for you

Also women.

"No one would ever say, for example "Ah well, men are useless are reading maps" or "...using technology"."

Cant multitask, are thoughtless, do *insert any 'female' job* right, operate household equipment, organise, understand, communicate, feel and so on (these are only some of the ones I have had delivered to me directly about men in general).

"As someone said - a woman has to do a job twice as well as a man to be accepted as being as good as a man. (The joke was - fortunately, that's not hard...!)"

The end of the joke pointing out the assumption of the lazy guy while the woman does all the work. Also behind every *insert positive* man is a *insert positive* woman. Or the 'man flu'. Or if a man is ill he is in bed vs a woman ill carries on (saw that joke/cartoon today).

"Look - just accept it, and be bloody grateful you were born male. Men have it cushy in this world. Don't whinge about the few times when women get a better deal than men."

And of course the other way around too.

"And just for the avoidance of doubt - I am male."

Me too. And I dont get over sensitive about these comparisons, in good humour both genders can have a good time ribbing each other. In seriousness someone with these opinions should be free to say it out loud so such uninformed sexism can be challenged through discussion.

[Phil.T.Tipp]

Re: I'll see you in court.

"And just for the avoidance of doubt - I am male."

Let me help you there.

You appear to be a white-knighting beta-boy apologist, desperately virtue-signalling in your utter confusion. Turn in your card at the earliest opportunity manlet, you're outside the circle of trust.

[Martin]

Re: I'll see you in court.

"You appear to be a white-knighting beta-boy apologist, desperately virtue-signalling in your utter confusion. Turn in your card at the earliest opportunity manlet, you're outside the circle of trust."

And you, no doubt, are a tough alpha male, who is clearly scared shitless by any woman with a brain.

I have a wife and four daughters who all thoroughly approve of my attitudes. I care much more about their views than yours.

[Pompous Git]

Re: I'll see you in court.

I am so sick of men whinging about how hard it is to be male in this world.

It is a piece of piss to be male in this world. Everything is set out for you...

Bollocks! Mate of mine's wife was killed in a car smash so he had to bring up two young girls. They were both still in nappies at the time. Men are definitely not welcome in public nappy-changing rooms. They are part of the wimmen-only toilets. The floor of a men's urinal is hardly the place to change babies' nappies, so he was pretty much restricted in what he could do.

For several years I was the house-husband while Mrs Git was the bread-winner. The contempt from many wimmen because of our role-reversal was... well, toxic.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: I'll see you in court.

Wish I could upvote you thousandfold.

Wife died leaving me as single parent of 6, with girls of 18 months, 3 and 5

About only place I could change them when out without being stared at or followed by nosey mid life crisis women and store people was Tesco and Waitrose as their changing facilities are not part of the womens toilets but completely seperated

[Potemkine]

Already said..

... but worth to repeat:

21 percent of U.S. corporate executives have "clinically significant" psychopathic traits, according to a new Australian study.

Regarding misogyny, so many men are so insecure that they feel threatened by everything different, women being the most incomprehensible beings for the standard IT male nerd. Education might help, therapy probably too.

[William 3]

Re: Already said..

And so many Women feel insecure they have to blame men for all their problems.

Anyone can strawman you know.

[Tikimon]

Re: Already said..

Beat me to it, this is classic Sociopath all over. Thinks he's so smart, can't be wrong, and will explode at any attempt to control him or take some control away from him. No empathy, can't understand another's perspective. No concern for others, since they are only objects for the socio to use.

With this guy at the helm, there's no way the culture will change. Ever.

I have all-too personal experience with this, I fell for the lies and married one...

[William 3]

Those Who Demand Tolerance

Offer none themselves.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a shame they didn't decide to cut out the minor examples. There's some nasty shit in there but the minor stuff actually makes it feel more trivial.

Instead, the paragraph that leaps out is this one:

"During Campbell's last four months at Magic Leap, Abovitz – who always had been pouty and prone to temper-tantrums – began to dig his heels in even more in the face of dissenting ideas and to explode ever more frequently into child-like fits of rage, threatening retribution when he didn't get his way, felt betrayed or was portrayed publicly in an unfavorable light."

And you have to wonder how people would react if a woman was described like that. Pouty? Really?

[David 138]

One of the advertising videos on their site (In the section with the whale) is of a solar system on a desk. However it looks like the person taking the video is far more interested in the pretty woman behind :P I found that funny after reading this article.

[Swarthy]

Having just popped over there to see their site, I must admit, I found that video kinda' creepy.

Also, a complete lack of explanation of what they are developing. VR? AR? Next Gen Shrooms?

What we found was when you give the brain and the body what they want, suddenly the shackles are off, the rectangular boxes are tossed, and something magical happens…experiences like none you’ve ever seen.

Reading the About Us pages (above), and watching the videos one could be excused for thinking that they were developing some sort of pharmaceuticaly-enhanced IT.

[codejunky]

hmm

No defence of anything said in the article except making it pink. That does seem to be a legitimate option as the producers of razors found. People will literally part with more money for the colour when given the choice for a day to day item. Of course there is the male issue where they will choose the non-pink one.

Interesting since blue used to be the girls colour and pink the boys.

[Bucky 2]

Gamers

The real problem is that women don't game in any real numbers. If it's a gaming rig, you've lost the women anyway. You can say it's the macho imagery in gaming software, as an industry. But women code, too. If there's money to be made, somebody would back it financially--who cares about traditional gender roles?

There's no pending avalanche of women gamers just waiting for the right game with the right imagery to appear so they can all pounce on it.

Besides, isn't passively waiting in the wings a sexist view of women in the first place?

[Tikimon]

Re: Gamers - yes, they do!

I could be wrong, but I have a different understanding of the Male vs Female Gamer thing. (Disclaimer: based on a subset of research, news articles, and personal experience).

Females are simply less interested in big-title action-adventure games, and aren't likely to buy a VR headset to play Alien Sniper Hero Edition. Instead, they tend to prefer casual games that can be played on mobile devices anyplace, anytime. Extra points for games that you can drop and come back to at any point.

Women game in tremendous numbers! I mess with one called Hay Day which appears to be 90% female, overcoming culture and language differences to have an incredibly international player base. If you want to attract women to games, look at the ones that succeed and figure out WHY women like them. It's kind of arrogant and self-defeating to decide that only a HALO player with a VR headset is a Real Gamer.

[Anonymous Coward]

someone local to hang out with when their significant other is slaving away at work thru-out the 12-hr day

"thru-out"

Hang them. Hang them all and burn the corpses.

[Swarthy]

It's a pity you posted anon.

[Anonymous Coward]

Men whine like bitches

Most women I've known actually just get on with things.

[LaeMing]

Magic Flop?

I had to go and refresh myself as to what Magic Leap actually (supposedly) did. And I am deeply involved in VR development at the moment.