back to article I've got a brand new combine harvester and I'll give you the API key

Two decades ago a tractor manufacturer was fitting smart sensors to its devices. Blending the agricultural and the technological were a natural fit, John Deere’s Georg Larscheid told The Register. Agricultural IoT is one of the more obscure areas that has largely passed the rest of the industry by, chiefly because it sticks to …

  1. Dwarf

    Not sure IoT is a good analogy for tractors, given that most farms I know have no Internet connectivity due to the fact that they are by definition rural places. Surely to qualify as IoT, it must actually be on the Internet.

    Perhaps describing a tractor as an interconnected subsystem (much like a car) is a more appropriate acronym, but I guess we have to let the marketing people have their take on things too - if only so we can ridicule them later.

    1. John Lilburne

      I live in a rural area, and for the last 15 years the wifi broadcasts include "milkingparlour" "cattlepens" "poultry house".

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Sounds typical of being in the country - you can't find a stable network

        1. Chemical Bob
          Pint

          Re: you can't find a stable network

          That was bad, AC. Real Bad. Have one of these on me ---->

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I live in a rural area, and for the last 15 years the wifi broadcasts include "milkingparlour" "cattlepens" "poultry house".

        We have those names in the city too. They just refer to something different :)

    2. Dave 126 Silver badge

      >Not sure IoT is a good analogy for tractors, given that most farms I know have no Internet connectivity due to the fact that they are by definition rural places.

      You'd think so, wouldn't you? However, the term 'Internet' in 'Internet of Things' doesn't necessarily refer to The Internet per se. 'IoT' been a deliberately broad term since it was coined in the 1980s because it was it referring to broad concepts.

    3. swschrad

      we'll always have GPS

      it's really interesting to watch a smart tractor cutting perfect, PERFECT, rows with 12 plow bottoms. brother-in-law's place has the usual interesting end of row wiggles, but then after the turn, punch in the GPS, and you can concentrate on looking for obstacles, letting the tractor guidance cut perfect straight parallel furrows.

    4. BillG
      Megaphone

      Farms and Networking in the 1990's

      I worked for various semiconductor companies in the 1990's. One company based in Silicon Valley, I had to argue relentlessly to get them to invest in farm networking. They visualized farms as backwards technology with no computers. They were very wrong.

      The reality was starkly different - each tractor, combine, harvester was fitted with a small computer with a GPS. They communicated back to the main house via a wireless network (not WiFi 802.11/?) so that the GPS could report exactly when, where, and what was planted, seeded, fertilized, mowed, harvested. Crop diseases were mapped and tracked over time. Exact maps of when, where, and what was watered, including rain, was critical because water was a massive expense. Which animals were fed, from what feed lot they were fed, and when was logged. The amount of milk per cow per time of day was measured. Electronics were everywhere. It was a massive investment in semiconductors.

      Only "the company previously known as Motorola" and Texas Instruments had an investment in farms and they did a very smart job of hiding that from their competitors. Very interesting technology.

    5. Eric Olson

      @ Dwarf and others

      Not sure IoT is a good analogy for tractors, given that most farms I know have no Internet connectivity due to the fact that they are by definition rural places.

      I think this comment is a shining example of what people get wrong about farming and the people who farm. It's not malicious, or even an attempt at humor at the expense of others. It's that most people forget two things about agriculture: It's vitally important to more than the city or county it's located in, and it underpins a sprawling, globe-spanning supply chain that literally feeds the world (or damn near all of it). And I suppose there is third thing: much of the world's breadbaskets are located in advanced economies that have resources to throw at enhancing yield.

      You want to see the US at it's most protectionist, look at agriculture. And that was before Trump. The country exports entire cargo ships of food each day across the world and can feed itself a dozen times over... yet things like corn, wheat, sugar, and poultry are deeply subsidized or supported by import tariffs. It's kind of crazy politically here each time the omnibus Farm Bill comes up for renewal every few years, and it's one of the few issues that party allegiance takes a backseat to the constituents back home.

      So yeah, it doesn't surprise me that John Deere (and probably others) have been sticking tech on tractors and implements well before it was cool or even an infrastructure to do much with it. I had two developers and a QA guy leave my last employer to join a small ag tech company that does SaaS for farm management, and it was quickly growing. I'm sure they aren't the only one.

  2. hplasm
    Meh

    IoT or not-

    It still uses the same buzzword bollocks.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: IoT or not-

      Such as?

      I've just re-read the article, and the man from John Deere only used buzzwords in order to provide examples of buzzwords.

      1. swschrad

        you missed the point in the middle

        that they need to use proprietary buzzwords as the ISO standardized ones are not approved yet.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

    Other than I suppose the farmer can put his feet up. It doesn't make the field any bigger or the yield any better and steering a tractor in a straight line at 3mph is hardly an arduous task for a human anyway.

    Instead of spending all this technology on creating ever more complex technology to create and support monoculture green deserts to feed more and more people, how about we address the real problem which is a human population that is way too large for this planet right now? Perhaps the whizz kids could put their minds to that instead.

    1. frank ly

      Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

      "... the real problem which is a human population that is way too large for this planet right now? Perhaps the whizz kids could put their minds to that instead."

      An internet connected condom?

      1. Chemical Bob

        Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

        "An internet connected condom?"

        Only a good idea if you can control it with your smartphone.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

      Accuracy and cost-saving. A semi-autonomous tractor plowing a farm with large fields via GPS can save the cost of the GPS add-on in just one season.

      Besides, it's not food production that's the issue, but food distribution.

      1. PNGuinn
        Joke

        Crop Circles 2.0

        At Last!

        A good use for the hinternet of 'fings!

        What could possibly go wrong ......

    3. rhydian

      Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

      Self driving combines and tractors can steer a much straighter and truer course than any human operator, and can do so at a reasonably high speed. Its not a big deal if you've got a small field, but in places like the Ukranian Steppes a tractor can travel 10s of miles in one direction sowing seeds, spraying weeds or harvesting grain, and not wasting fuel, seeds or weed spray with "wonky" driving means having to use less spray, fewer seeds and less diesel for the same output.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

        "but in places like the Ukranian Steppes a tractor can travel 10s of miles in one direction sowing seeds, spraying weeds or harvesting grain, and not wasting fuel, seeds or weed spray with "wonky" driving means having to use less spray"

        Don't worry, once those ukranian AI tractors get a taste for the locally brewed hooch diesel they'll be all over the place!

      2. Wensleydale Cheese

        Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

        "in places like the Ukranian Steppes a tractor can travel 10s of miles in one direction sowing seeds, spraying weeds or harvesting grain,"

        That also implies coordination with other vehicles for refilling hoppers and tanks or offloading grain. Knowing how much you are going to use or collect on a given pass or per hour or per shift helps greatly with planning that.

    4. Chris G

      Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

      Have yoy tried reading the article?

      It has nothing to do with autonomy and everything to do with productivity. A couple of farmers I know were writing their own software in the nineties to use with gps and sattelite mapping to identify crop density amongst other things, this enables a farmer to tell soil or other differences in different parts of the same field and then adjust preparations accordingly.

      It is not only John Deere who started that in the '90s, most of the large aggy companies made a start back then. I remember seeing quite a lot of related articles in Farmers Weekly at the time.

      1. rhydian

        Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

        @Chris G

        I remember seeing you could get most of the medium/large Massey Ferguson tractors with data logging type computer terminals about 15 years ago. They Used an SD card for storage I think.

    5. John Lilburne

      Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

      The world is capable feeding 10 times the current population. The issues are whether the right crops are being produced. So things like devoted large tracts of land on Africa and South America to supply the cut flower market, or growing loads of mange tout in Kenya rather than local staple crtops. IOW it is all about making money rather than feeding people.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

        "The world is capable feeding 10 times the current population. "

        Sure , if you cut down all the rainforests and turn every bit of available natural wilderness into farmland. And no its not just about growing the "right" crop, it doesn't matter what crop it is, its still going to be a monoculture and ecologically barren compared to a natural landscape. And if you think that doesn't matter you need to look at the pyramid of life and see how we're balanced very precariously at the top.

        1. John Lilburne

          Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

          "Sure , if you cut down all the rainforests and turn every bit of available natural wilderness into farmland."

          Nope! There is plenty of available land without cutting down rainforests and converting wilderness. Rainforests and wilderness conversion does not occur in order to feed local people but for cash crops. The Amazon is being logged for construction materials in the USA, Japan, and Europe. Large tracts of land in Africa are producing roses. Indonesia is chopping down the rainforests for palm oil production and hardwood exports. Not to feed people.

          http://www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/stop-deforestation/drivers-of-deforestation-2016-palm-oil

          http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/campaigns/forests/amazon/logging-in-the-amazon/

      2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

        "The issues are whether the right crops are being produced."

        I agree with you but a lot of other things have to be right to make this possible. The local population needs to be able to buy the local staples at a price that gives the grower a living and the country needs the export earnings. IOW it needs to be about making money as well as feeding people.

    6. Steve Evans

      Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

      Sensor equipped farm machinery does help feed the planet, and save the planet too.

      For example, integrating the yield data during harvesting across a field gives fantastic information about how the soil quality varies within the field, and is used to vary the amount of nutrients put onto the soil at the start of the next growing season.

      The result is higher crop yield and less wastage of fertilizer.

      1. swschrad

        soil sensors and mapping pests saves chemicals, too

        and we all know how costly and dangerous farm chemicals can be. "apply to label" can be wasting and overusing them in much of a field. if the soggy sector pushes up more weeds, that's where you need to spot the label amount.

      2. Mark 85

        Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

        They can even go further. Been awhile since I read it but some of the orchards set sensors for each tree which sends back to the main computer data such as wet/dry (needs irrigation), pH of the soil, Given the data and connections in the orchard, they selectively water trees or go investigate if something is off...

        There's a vineyard here locally that has similar equipment but includes motion sensors (for birds) along with cameras to check the vines for health.

        Fascinating stuff all in all.

    7. Alan Edwards

      Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

      > Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

      It's more about efficiency than yield. GPS knows *exactly* where the tractor is so doesn't need to overlap to make sure the whole field gets ploughed/seeded/whatever, so diesel isn't wasted. The tractor will get pulled off course by ground variations, the GPS can spot that better than a human.

    8. macjules
      Meh

      Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

      Autonomous tractors will be the Teslas of agricultural machinery. And being Tesla it will also solve much of the population problem you mention. Well, the farming population anyway.

    9. rh587

      Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

      Other than I suppose the farmer can put his feet up. It doesn't make the field any bigger or the yield any better and steering a tractor in a straight line at 3mph is hardly an arduous task for a human anyway.

      When your seed stock costs £1000/bag, cm-precision steering to prevent double-seeding adds up to tangible savings (along with the diesel savings). As does the analysis of crop growth and weed growth. That data can be fed into smart sprayers which will moderate spray-rate - this reduces chemical usage (good for the environment and the farmer's pocket). Additionally, knowing exactly where in a field your densest yields come from (and being able to put fertiliser strategies into place in areas with inadequate soil nutrients) does tangibly increase yield.

      Additionally, GPS can drive a vehicle far straighter (and faster), than a human.

    10. The Man Who Fell To Earth Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

      You are confusing political policy ("human population control") with the practicalities of an individual running a large farm. Your comment is just an example of Intellectual Masturbation - useless yaking whose only purpose is to make you feel better.

    11. Gene Cash Silver badge

      Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

      the real problem which is a human population that is way too large for this planet right now?

      I think the "whizz kids" already worked out ICBMs, smart munitions, drones, and battlefield nukes a LONG time ago...

    12. Tom Paine

      Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

      It reduces costs (fewer people needed to drive tractors, haul grain, etc) and reduces inputs - fertilisers, pesticides - because they can be targeted at the areas that need them, rather than drenching dozens of acres to hit a patch of rust in one corner of a barley field. Good for the environment, good for food prices, what's not to like? (Bad news for Ed Grundy, of course, but good news for Alice Carter, so... swings and roundabouts... )

    13. JulieM Silver badge
      Stop

      Re: Whats the point of an autonomous tractor?

      Overpopulation isn't the problem.

      Vegans reckon (and who am I to argue with them?) that an area the size of the UK could produce enough food for the whole of the rest of the world, on a carefully-planned vegan diet. So even despite the fact that we are not all vegans, if anyone is going hungry, this is simply a problem of logistics.

      It's also a trivial problem to solve -- which means that if anyone is going hungry, it's deliberate -- somebody with the power to solve it chose not to.

  4. 45RPM Silver badge

    Given how heavily DRM'd John Deere tractors are, to the extent that John Deere even objects to third party servicing of the damn things (ref: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/nothing-drms-like-deere-farmers-cant-fix-tractors/ and https://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere), it seems to me that their primary use of tech is to screw the farmer.

    I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.

    1. scrubber

      RE: "I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole."

      Because that is a non-authorised servicing tool and you'd invalidate your warranty?

    2. Alan J. Wylie

      +1

      I was going to post the same Wired link. I'd just like to make sure the words "Copyright Office" are mentioned here and note that they have pushed back to allow DMCA exemptions for automotive software.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Just what you need 3-4 ton vehicle with a giant multi-line plow strapped on the back going doolally and no way to stop it after some muppet decides they know how to write tractor EMU software better than the designers of said tractor! That might not be a problem out in the US Midwest where a field is 17 miles wide or the Steppes where that is probably 5 times bigger, however here in Blighty where major roads and towns but directly up to the farmer's fields I think I'd feel happier knowing the local farmer has had kit machinery serviced by qualified personnel ( ooh-err! or is that "ooh-ahh"?) . Same reason I take my Honda to a Honda garage for any serious work, I know they have the right kit to hone in on the problem. Minor stuff beyond pads and discs which I do myself, then I'm more than happy for the local grease monkey's garage have a go. When it comes to why the GPS central control unit is reporting faulty data back to the dash that could leave me stranded or worse driving a faulty and dangerous vehicle, then I think I'll let Honda techs, with a direct line to the Honda dev backline support team, take a look in my EMU software thanks!

      1. 45RPM Silver badge

        @anonymous coward - something something something a fool and his money are soon parted.

        The fact is that third party garages are often just as good as main dealerships, and in many cases (especially for third party specialists) are staffed by people who used to work in, and were trained by, those main dealerships.

        And I’m at a loss to imagine how a faulty GPS could ever result in a vehicle being dangerous. Actually, I can think of a way it could be dangerous - but only if the developer / manufacturer of the car were criminally negligent in its design.

        My cars are all third party serviced (125k, 250k and 500k miles - a nice sequence, coincidentally, this month) - which I’ll bet is far higher than most (probably more than your Honda) - and which has largely been delivered with the helping hands of a third party servicer. The 500k car wins points for having the most superior design of no electronics except in the radio.

      2. 45RPM Silver badge

        @AC - Incidentally, I just spotted the way you spelled ‘plough’. Are you Georg Larschied, or one of his employees, in disguise? You scamp you!

      3. Gene Cash Silver badge

        Just what you need 3-4 ton vehicle with a giant multi-line plow strapped on the back going doolally

        Well then, I guess you're one of those city slickers proud of his ignorance of technical things then.

        Out in the country, taking a "3-4 ton vehicle" 40 miles to the garage is rather an expensive and time-consuming undertaking.

        Some of the what the John Deere copyright crap prevents is as simple as replacing belts. Some of the computers need to be told they have a new belt so they can calibrate variable-width pulleys and such.

        But you wouldn't know about such technical things, would you?

  5. Alistair
    Windows

    so John Deer read the commentary on the *LAST* article.

    And yes. they follow a standard. Okay, one point made. I'll go read the standard at some point. I seriously doubt however that it covers changing the oil, and resetting the OBDIE error codes.

    Relevant article

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: so John Deer[e] read the commentary on the *LAST* article.

      Quite. Might have been healthy if El Reg had put this response in the advertorial section.

  6. Arctic fox
    Thumb Up

    "I've got a brand new combine harvester and I'll give you the API key"

    Very witty reference. Melanie Safka's "Brand New Key". The obligatory You-Tube link? Naturally.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5LzOlNZPCc

    1. rhydian

      Re: "I've got a brand new combine harvester and I'll give you the API key"

      I'd imagine El Reg was going for this particular beauty...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb63PdPweDc

      Oooh Arrr!

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: "I've got a brand new combine harvester and I'll give you the API key"

        "I'd imagine El Reg was going for this particular beauty."

        I just knew there'd be those who'd miss the reference. Youngsters!

        1. Arctic fox
          Happy

          @Doctor Syntax and rhydian Re: "I've got a brand new combine harvester............

          .......................and I'll give you the API key"

          It would appear that I read the reference as referring to the original song rather than the humorous cover provided by The Wurzels - Combine Harvester (Brand New Key). Quite clearly my bad.

          1. JulieM Silver badge
            Pint

            Re: @Doctor Syntax and rhydian "I've got a brand new combine harvester............

            Don't be too hard on yourself.

            You managed to identify the original song, based on a parody of a parody of it that you didn't even know existed. A good parody, in that it retains enough recognisable elements from the original to permit identification, but a parody nonetheless.

            That's got to deserve a beer. Well, that'd be my excuse, if I needed one .....

    2. John Savard

      Re: "I've got a brand new combine harvester and I'll give you the API key"

      It took me a few moments to recognize the reference, since the title didn't seem to match the metre...

  7. GlenP Silver badge

    A while ago I was asked if I might be available to assist with the computer control in a tractor as they were having problems. Turned out it was running on Windows XP! I didn't decline but suggested they might think about upgrading (I don't want it crashing through my garden to the house).

    Seriously though the reduction in the use of pesticides and fertilisers by using this sort of monitoring and control is substantial which is better for the environment and reduces the cost of production.

  8. JulieM Silver badge
    FAIL

    That's just the problem

    You may well have a brand new combine harvester, but John Deere won't give you the API key .....

  9. Stevie

    Bah!

    Blither away, fools. Yes, today's harvesters are the size of a firestation on wheels and only have a few hundred bytes, but soon the technology will begin maturing making for larger data capacity in smaller footprint. In twenty years I fully expect to see gigabyte harvesters the size of dinky toys, and within fifty years terabyte tractors will be marketed that cannot be discerned with the naked eye.

  10. Tom 7

    Swarm tractors

    The reason why modern tractors are so big and heavy and expensive is largely due to the economics of having a driver in the bloody thing. Without having a driver in it you can reduce it to small possibly even wind/solar powered/assisted machines - you dont need to plough weeds under if you can send out a cheap machine that costs the good side of £1k and can wander up an down the rows autonomously zapping the weeds so they can never get going and need ploughing in later.

    More importantly these tools can be mass produced to an open standard so, like my old grey fergie, I dont get screwed by JD for a JD special attachment that only fits my JD and cant be lent, borrowed or shared to people with people with different brand machines.

    1. Alistair
      Windows

      Re: Swarm tractors

      @ Tom7:

      Most of the 'ploughing under' that happens on real farms is either end of harvest, putting the remaining portions of the harvested plants back into the soil, or at end of fallow. (Some farmers actually still do this rotation thing). Tractors generally aren't used for 'weeding', unless its blasting out .... monsanto's front line product, Glyphosphate (or some variant thereof), and there's still no ploughing involved.

      Tractors are big and heavy because when they're *big* they can do more *rows* at once, and mass counts when it comes to shoving things down *into* the soil. And, the bigger the tires you're running on the bigger the mud puddle you can run through in the spring without getting stuck. Furthermore, big tractors can haul bigger portions of your crop. itty bitty microbots would be fine about 50% of the time when conditions are perfect. But this is the real world we're talking about and conditions are rarely perfect in the back 40. Most of the time in the back 40, its all mud, muck, and milled poo, and when you're lucky, some really really nice tomatoes.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Swarm tractors

        You could plant in wet conditions if you had drones that could push seeds into the ground at the correct depth. Mud doesn't affect things that don't have to roll along the ground. They could work practically 24x7, and while they couldn't carry much so they'd need to reload seeds often, so long as you position them where they can make one up and back trip before reloading the thing carrying the seeds wouldn't need to move much and it wouldn't slow the whole process down.

        In wet years it might take a couple weeks from start to finish to plant a typical (half square mile) sized field around here, because you only get a couple days and have to go from sunup to sundown (or later, they have headlights) so even if the drones weren't that fast at least you'd only need to buy enough to get the job done in two weeks and you'd be fine because you'd be able to schedule your planting time based on soil temperature rather than when you're able to make it through the mud.

        Small drones could even fly BETWEEN the rows, be programmed to spot weeds or pests and apply herbicide and pesticide only where needed instead of everywhere. Saves money, less of it getting into the environment, everyone wins (well except Monsanto, but them losing means everyone wins even more!)

        You'd still need a pretty decent sized machine for the harvest though. There's no way you're going to have a <$1K machine cut down 10 foot tall corn stalks, remove the ears, shuck them and remove the kernels and pump them into a bin running alongside like a modern harvester does.

        1. Dave 126 Silver badge

          Re: Swarm tractors

          >In wet years it might take a couple weeks from start to finish to plant a typical (half square mile) sized field around here,

          So then your crops on one side of the field would be ready for harvest a week or two before crops on the other side. Hmmm...

          Still, your drone wouldn't have to return to the seed hopper to reload... seed could be shot through the air and intercepted by the drone!

          Still not convinced, but some fun ideas. I don't doubt that farmers will be innovative when it comes to using drones.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            @Dave 126

            It isn't like crops have to be harvested an exact number of days after being planted. Having a couple weeks between first and last plantings is pretty common in wet years where the farmer might have two weeks of wet weather after he plants the first half and before he finishes planting the second half.

            Crops don't mature at the same rates in different areas in the same field, either, depending on if they are in low spots or high spots, flat spots or sidehill spots. In that respect if you had the yield and maturity data you could selectively plant the slowest maturing places first, and the fastest maturing places last. Of course since you'll never do an aerial drone harvest, having everything mature at the same time doesn't mean it won't take two weeks to harvest if you have a wet fall...

      2. Tom 7

        Re: Swarm tractors

        But swarm tractors are looking seriously like they would be cheaper than the glyphosphate, or indeed any of the pesticides that may be needed with big tractors. And even a pi zero can be told where the spring that you need to avoid is - all without the compaction the big tractor causes, and without the crop loss - tractors round here seem to crush 5 to 10% of the crop.

        As for pushing things into the ground - I'm not saying get rid of all tractors but we dont need £120k JD to put fence post in. As for getting the crop in - tractors dont do all of that - combines do when they're not slowly trying to get down the road in front of me.

    2. swschrad

      uh, you never saw front plates, then, have you?

      the load of ag tools often makes it next to impossible to start from a dead stop without flipping the machine backwards. hence, for a century, front plates to put extra weight on the front axle. this keeps the tractor on all fours, and when you gear down and start flooding in the diesel fuel, those big lug tires will actually turn. forget to raise the blades once without front plates, ass over teakettle. with them, you either go, spin a new ditch, or stall out. all safer alternatives.

  11. petef
    Coat

    On the Internet nobody knows you’re a tractor.

    1. Alistair
      Coat

      @ petef

      To be a *stealth* tractor you have to have NoScript installed or your mac address will give you away!

  12. MrT

    To be Frank...

    ... going further and adding AI to agri kit might have unexpected results...

  13. Lotaresco

    "“the technological foundation was simply not there to make it all work… the infrastructure was not there.”"

    Two decades ago? That's 1997. I must have been completely dreaming spending my time in that era working with sensors on aircraft, boats, ships, medical remote sensing then. All of them connected to various types of network/bus topologies.

    Or Georg Larschied is talking carp.

    1. jake Silver badge

      In 1979ish ...

      ... I watched as Caterpillar tractors started breaking ground for a new building in the empty field between the south-bound offramp of Hwy101 to Shoreline, Shoreline itself, and Terra Bella in Mountain View. They had laser level attachments provided by Spectra Physics, and a boat-load of computer equipment to set and monitor positioning. It wasn't wireless (yet), it had to either be monitored in real time by a tech riding alongside the Cat operator, or the data could be downloaded for future reference via a simple serial cable. 5 LaserLevels[tm] dotted around the site provided xyz positioning down to a couple hundredths of an inch, hydraulics provided the movement.

      After the demo, about 8 of us from the engineering team headed for Fred's (dive bar on the Mountain View / Palo Alto border ... still there, recommended!). We needed a drink ... It was the first time all the gear had been integrated and run together. Somehow, it all worked ...

      So it's been a good deal longer than 20 years. Never trust the modern John Deere, they are run by marketing not engineering. It's a shame, really. JD used to be a good company.

      The building is still there on Terra Bella, as is Spectra Physics.

  14. GBE

    Action that article into the bin...

    "instead having the data transmitted to a central processing area where it can be actioned;"

    I stopped reading at that point.

    I pay no attention to people who use "action" as a verb.

    They are invariably spouting bullshit.

  15. Dave Bell

    Are the Americans the best farmers?

    The LAMMA show happened last week, and is focused on new tech for farming, and some of the older stuff, and I remember, back in the Nineties, seeing devices that were aiming pesticides at individual plants in a field. GPS isn't quite precise enough on it's own, look up "differential GPS", but a combine harvester with a yield meter could record just where the good and bad patches were in a field. Back then, with that sort of detailed info, it wasn't always certain what the fix was for the bad patches, it need some old-fashioned farming knowledge to get the "why".

    John Deere produced a magazine called "The Furrow", and cousins in the USA sent my father a subscription. They were just catching on to stuff we had been doing in Europe for years. and average yoelds of crops such as wheat are still much lower in the USA/ You might wonder why the Americans still use bushels instead of the tonnes the rest of the world uses.

    Times have changed, but US farming still looks a bit reckless. It came from the EU, but we had regulations on applying pesticides and fertiliser, things that work out as saving money, even though the overt purpose was to stop them getting into water supplies. I have heard about nitrates getting into American rivers and lakes: they cost money, and the protection rules British farmers have to follow to avert that mean they they're not throwing money away. Precision farming is part of that.

    It's the same for pesticides. America allows pesticides that are banned in Europe, chemicals that, here, needed special protective clothing to use. and there is all sorts of detail about the droplet sizes of the spray I had to pay attention to. Also the wind. Yet I see American reports of really bad spray drift, suggesting the chemicals never reach the crop. More money wasted.

    The trouble was that the politicians would say things such as "This only puts an extra 1% on the costs" and didn't seem to know the difference between the net and the gross. They haven't changed. It's possible that the politics of farming is dominated by land ownership, and land speculation, soaking up subsidies, rather than the problems of growing a crop.

    It's still hard to beat a skilled man on a tractor, but when you can't afford more than one man per thousand acres a robot looks tempting. Back in my distant youth, even with tractors, you needed over 10 men per thousand acres. My father was, in his youth, ploughing with horses.

    A lot of this stuff depends on imports. It's a long list. John Deere is an American company, though they have factories in Europe. We import fertiliser, pesticides, and fuel for tractors. We still have some British companies, but for many things it's one source for all of Europe. And it's just pot luck whether that source is in Britain or not.

    The paperwork on the fertiliser I bought, most came from a factory near Rotterdam. The production depends on supplies of natural gas, and most now comes from Russia via a pipeline.

    At least we still have good farmer. I am not convinced of the politicians and financial whiz-kids

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Are the Americans the best farmers?

      Europe v USA

      I wonder if it's more to do with population density and available crop growing areas? Here in Europe it's generally a bit more crowed, the UK in particular, so making every last scrap of arable land as productive as possible. The USA seems to have far more land space so have far less pressure to be more productive.

      Yes, I know there are other pressures and it's not really that simple, but space has been an issue in Europe/UK to be a long running factor in optimising agriculture.

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