back to article UK oversight body tipped to examine phone snooping tech in prisons

The secretive use of IMSI grabbers in the UK is set to receive oversight from the Interception of Communications Commissioner's Office (IOCCO). IOCCO is awaiting a formal request from the Prime Minister to provide oversight of the use of mobile phone eavesdropping devices in prisons, its head has confirmed to The Register. …

  1. lukewarmdog
    Holmes

    "If you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, anyone's mobile phone, email and text communications can be intercepted.”

    They're in prison.. they are already all those things..

    1. katrinab Silver badge

      What if you are outside the prison for example if you live / work nearby, and that is the mast with the strongest signal?

      1. Paul Crawford Silver badge

        A well-designed system would triangulate the phone's position and if its outside the prison area ignore it.

        But that would add cost, of course...

        1. Sir Runcible Spoon

          What about a solicitor visiting a client whilst they are being held on remand? If they call back to the office to discuss some point of the defense then that will be picked up.

          Not sure that's legal even with all the new laws.

          1. JimboSmith Silver badge

            Wasn't aware that you were allowed to take a mobile phone as a visitor let alone an inmate into a prison.

            1. MyffyW Silver badge

              > "Wasn't aware that you were allowed to take a mobile phone as a visitor let alone an inmate into a prison."

              You're not, hun. However it is not unknown for the criminally minded to sneak a phone in up their chuff.

              Personally speaking whilst an impending incarceration, several drinks and a shedload of sudacrem might persuade me to shove a feature phone up the unmentionable, there is no effing way I'd be taking the charger in.

              1. Bloakey1

                <snip patronising bit>

                "Personally speaking whilst an impending incarceration, several drinks and a shedload of sudacrem might persuade me to shove a feature phone up the unmentionable, there is no effing way I'd be taking the charger in."

                I'll give you a fiver if you make the phone a Samsung Galaxy Note 7.

                1. Nolveys

                  I'll give you a fiver if you make the phone a Samsung Galaxy Note 7.

                  I'll up that to ten if it's a standard Bell rotary dial phone.

                  1. Robert Sneddon

                    20 if you can manage a Strowger rack.

                  2. MyffyW Silver badge

                    @Bloakey1 and @Nolveys - tempted, so very tempted, but I'm no great fan of Android and I have an allergy to Bakelite.

              2. JimboSmith Silver badge

                Might I suggest this tiny mobile if you're ever tempted.

                http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-2016-Zanco-Bee-99-Plastic-Beat-The-Boss-Smallest-Mobile-Tiny-Key-Fob-Phone-/182244951973?hash=item2a6ea547a5:g:yoUAAOSwgZ1XsmyZ

                1. werdsmith Silver badge

                  Yes, the Zanco Bee also has voice disguising tech built it. It's like it was designed for the rectum/prison market.

                  1. Alan Brown Silver badge

                    "It's like it was designed for the rectum/prison market."

                    Well, given that "BOSS" is the acronym for the scanning system used in prisons.....

                    I wouldn't be at all surprised if sales of these devices are well and truely "watched" by certain organisations.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            "What does Big Brother see, while he is watching?"

            > Not sure that's legal even with all the new laws.

            That's the title of this amusing talk I watched last night:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Teu5qXJDFow.

            The speaker explains the relationship between spying and the law a few minutes into his talk.

        2. Dr.Flay

          To "triangulate" needs contact with multiple bases (hence triangulation), 1 fancy box can't do it.

          and by their nature are not direct-able or selective.

          The filtering is done after data collection.

          1. Kane

            @Dr.Flay

            "To "triangulate" needs contact with multiple bases (hence triangulation), 1 fancy box can't do it."

            You make the assumption that there is only "1 fancy box" within a prison's land area. Most prisons are pretty big places, you know?

      2. Bloakey1

        "

        What if you are outside the prison for example if you live / work nearby, and that is the mast with the strongest signal?"

        Agreed. Having a pint for example in the County Arms beside Wandsworth nick.

        Apparently a certain Mr. J. Assange had a Stingray in his vicinity and it was switching providers like billyo. They knew it was an IMSI device when they got a clear line when it was purporting to be an EE mast.

        These things are as welcome as a ginger stepchild but seem to be fairly ubiquitous in London. During demonstrations some of them have been seen to be mobile moving backwards and forwards at varying speed. A strange thing for a tower to do.

        1. x 7

          "During demonstrations some of them have been seen to be mobile moving backwards and forwards at varying speed. A strange thing for a tower to do."

          its usually an Islander of the RAF but there are civilian chartered aircraft as well

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Or you drive past on the way to/from work routinely, like I do.

  2. M7S

    "innovative countermeasures"

    I'm intrigued, but then have a view of prison mostly supplied by tales of the exploits of one Norman Stanley Fletcher. Is there more that we can be told?

    1. Rich 11

      Re: "innovative countermeasures"

      Don't smuggle in fireworks up your bum.

      Sorry, my view of prisons, too, was primarily formed by Porridge and 1970s primary school jokes.

    2. kmac499

      Re: "innovative countermeasures"

      I'm betting holding the phone in a combination faraday cage and wave guide device to point directly at a known base station.

      Yeah you guessed it yet another use for a Pringles tube.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "innovative countermeasures"

      No that innovative, you just choose manual selection for connection and choose which one to connect to (avoid the one that identifies itself as "HM Prison Intercept Trial")

    4. NonSSL-Login

      Re: "innovative countermeasures"

      The older stingrays at least do a downgrade attack to force a less secure GSM connection. Changing the phone setting to connect on 4G only and disabling 2G and 3G should be good enough to bypass those.

      Using cyanogenmod you can disable these with the click of a quick tile.

      I think the innovate countermeasures they are using are is simply the encryption heavy Signal app for messages and phone calls.

  3. Anonymous Blowhard

    I noticed in the linked article on The Ferret that newer 4G mobiles and smart-phones can circumvent the blocking.

    I'll bet anyone able to conceal a Note 7 from the prison authorities will have a warm feeling inside on hearing this...

    1. Gotno iShit Wantno iShit
      Pint

      A warm feeling..

      Bravo Sir, bravo. ------->

    2. MrDamage Silver badge

      Guard: Do I have to ask you to bend over and give me two deep coughs lad?

      Con: Nah Guv, not smugglin' nuffink.

      *Note 7 proceeds to activate it's undocumented feature*

      Guard: Liar, liar, pants on fire.

  4. FlamingDeath Silver badge

    Anjem Choudary beneficiary

    Kind of strange that Anjem Choudary finally gets banged up and they're looking to introduce oversight for prisons only, are the security services worried Anjem Choudary might blab too much on a mobile and the uncomfortably close relationship being revealed that these people share with "security services", AKA those guys that finance "moderate rebels" that turned out to be ISIS sympathisers (AKA mercenaries)

    No tinfoil hat needed, keeping abreast of current affairs is enough

    1. Anonymous Coward
      WTF?

      Re: Anjem Choudary beneficiary

      You failed to notice the Scots were doing this already I guess?

  5. Dr.Flay

    IMSI-Catcher Detector

    Android owners can monitor for these devices.

    You only have 2 options, but it is 2 more than Apple.

    https://opensource.srlabs.de/projects/snoopsnitch

    https://cellularprivacy.github.io/Android-IMSI-Catcher-Detector/

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: IMSI-Catcher Detector

      Having used these before, it's still not obvious in all situations from what I can tell.

      At the Derby horse racing that the queen attends, I assumed at least one would be in use for security but after all the checks nothing showed up. I probably lit up on her securities radar though after getting the test calls from the american number as part of the app.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I've not really understood why prisons don't just use RF detectors on the appropriate frequencies that alert when a phone is used in a vicinity. Set up a number of them on each level and you should be able to pinpoint the cell then go and nab the phone.

    Very cheap tech and easy to set up and move around - no privacy implications either.

    1. Ian 55

      Amongst other things, you might well want to know who they're talking to and what they're saying. Especially if they don't think they're being listened in to.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Amongst other things, you might well want to know who they're talking to and what they're saying"

        But if that was important just give them all mobile phones will built in firmware to auto record calls and save them to a central server. They don't because phones aren't allowed and there would be privacy issues with that.

        Either you want phones because you want to hear what they are saying or you don't want phones in prisons.

        Having a tolerated so we can spy approach is just stupid.

        1. Alan Brown Silver badge

          "Either you want phones because you want to hear what they are saying or you don't want phones in prisons."

          By all accounts the vast majority of smuggled phones are used to keep in touch with family due to the official ones being expensive and/or extremely limited availability.

          If they solved THAT problem, I'm willing to bet the smuggling problem would become minor and easier to keep on top of.

          In any case once the IMEI of phones inside a prison's walls are known RIPA can be used to force the mobile providers to provide a tap no matter where the phone is actually located.

          And of course once you know where that phone is calling you can correlate with calls made by _those_ numbers, which starts weaving a large web of contacts. I assume the more tech-savvy are simply using things like whatsapp or redphone to do encrypted conversations.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            By all accounts the vast majority of smuggled phones are used to keep in touch with family due to the official ones being expensive and/or extremely limited availability.

            Are you aware what Prison is about?

            Think you're confusing it with "Holiday"

            1. Alan Brown Silver badge

              "Are you aware what Prison is about?"

              Very. And I'm also aware that keep prisoners in touch with their families keeps them grounded, less likely to play up whilst inside and less likely to reoffend when released.

              Unlike the USA system (revenge, retribution and profiting from slave labor), most other prison systems are supposed to be about repair and reformation.

            2. phuzz Silver badge
              Facepalm

              "Are you aware what Prison is about? Think you're confusing it with "Holiday""

              Let me guess, you're in the 'prison is punishment not rehabilitation' camp?

              Well, it's still worth bearing in mind that prisoners who have regular family contact are less likely to re-offend, which I think we can all agree is better for everyone?

          2. lukewarmdog

            Those aren't the accounts I hear of, all the ones I hear of are where the phone is used to manage the drug trade. If they could solve the drug problem, there'd be a lot less need for prisons.

  7. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "By the time of publication a spokesperson for Number 10 had not confirmed when IOCCO would be formally asked to audit IMSI catcher usage by the Prime Minister."

    Given who the current PM is the answer should be obvious: "Never".

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Stopping cell phone use in prison

    Too bad they don't make them out of steel and concrete, so they could turn the whole place into a Faraday cage and block illicit cell phone use that way...

    I'm sure some will object "but what if the guards want to use their phones", but they don't need to be using them when they are on duty. They can have a picocell in their break room to allow them to make calls there, and use a landline elsewhere in the prison just like most people did until 15 years ago.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Stopping cell phone use in prison

      Easier way: Put all the inmates on the Vodaphone network. Problem solved.

    2. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: Stopping cell phone use in prison

      "but they don't need to be using them when they are on duty."

      Guards are as prohibited from bringing phones into prisons as anyone else is.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Welcome to Zero-T's form of Britains' Open Prison.

    With "Zero-T"-heresa May in charge its all getting very blurry to what is actually Prison and what isn't.

    I'd class the M4 as a form of Prison Corridor, given the Highways Agency "Cashcow" grey stealth Hadecs 3 Cameras now operate 24/7 at J19/J20 Eastbound/Westbound if you live near those ANPR Cameras, they are subtly blanket tracking you better than an obsessive wife/husband, which has more right to stalk you than this does, given you agreed to marry them.

    1. JaitcH
      Happy

      Re: Welcome to Zero-T's form of Britains' Open Prison.

      If you object to HM Snoops observing your presence, the installation of a string of 3 watt Infra-Red LEDs around the periphery of a number plate, and a couple as imitation mounting bolts in the centre of the plate, is a very effective way of blinding various optical electronic devices.

      In the hours of darkness, the effect is greatly enhanced. The use of a sequencer, aka Knight Rider, to illuminate the LEDs randomly (not sequentially) improves the obfuscation.

  10. JaitcH
    Unhappy

    Here we go again ... distinct avoidance of the use of Judiciary

    The big difference between Britain and other countries is tha absence of the oversight of the judiciary in UK covert operations.

    Although, given the relationship between a certain party and the judiciary, their presence would simply be a rubber stamp.

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