back to article We wrap our claws around latest pre-Build Windows 10 preview

Microsoft is releasing preview versions of Windows 10 at a rapid rate, perhaps in preparation for its Build developer conference later this week in San Francisco. Build 14295, released late last week, followed just 8 days after Build 14291, which introduced Extensions for the Edge browser as well as an updated Maps app. There …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    C'mon son!

    >despite the advent of "Windows-as-a-service" it is not greatly improved<

    Such an asinine comment, it automatically invalidates anything else put forward in the piece.

    1. Bob Vistakin
      Facepalm

      Re: C'mon son!

      I see the new $22,000 microsoft surface is here - does it run internet explorer?

    2. TheVogon

      Ubuntu

      I see Windows 10 is going to support running Ubuntu. That is the after all the only way we we will ever get to see the year of the Linux desktop...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Ubuntu

        "I see Windows 10 is going to support running Ubuntu. That is the after all the only way we we will ever get to see the year of the Linux desktop..."

        I guess MS realise that they have no choice to move ahead with the times and embrace a multi-platform world, given the trends showing with these sorts of things:

        http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016#technology-development-environments

        http://gs.statcounter.com/#all-os-ww-monthly-201504-201603

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  3. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    "and the Windows app store remains disappointing. "

    If there was only some other way of getting "apps" onto a pc!

    You'd think after over 20 years of a full GUI desktop, they would of nailed getting software onto it by now.

    If there was only some sort of file, you could download, or heck even go out and buy and just with a click or two, it would be there on your pc.

    1. Dave 126

      Re: "and the Windows app store remains disappointing. "

      >If there was only some sort of file, you could download, or heck even go out and buy and just with a click or two, it would be there on your pc.

      Of the various ways of adding software to systems (app stores, apt-get, software managers, and whatever it is that OSX does), the traditional Windows' method is my least favourite.

    2. Doctor_Wibble
      Trollface

      Re: "and the Windows app store remains disappointing. "

      > If there was only some sort of file, you could download

      True and the best part about some of those was when you had to download a driver for a network card that did not split into disk01 disk02 etc but was a massive single 'install.exe' type blob. Fckn retards.

      Saved by having split/rejoin progs available but I also throw the blame at MS for not having a generic base-compatibility type driver (like the plain VGA one) because even 300 baud would be faster than having to find an old compuserve disk that hadn't been worn through by excessive re-use.

      p.s. I actually wanted to give a downvote for the "would of" but graciously changed my mind.

      1. Sandtitz Silver badge

        Re: "and the Windows app store remains disappointing. "

        "I also throw the blame at MS for not having a generic base-compatibility type driver"

        That would be pretty hard since there is no generic base compatibility standard for NICs, and such a driver hasn't been done for any other OS either.

        1. Doctor_Wibble

          Re: "and the Windows app store remains disappointing. "

          > there is no generic base compatibility standard for NICs

          Actually I had no idea, presumably having been spoilt at various points in the timeline by things like AT command sets, 'soundblaster compatible' and 'ne2000 compatible' (and obviously the VGA one) though I still want to blame someone somewhere for failing to do something!

          I had always thought it was some deliberate contracted or licence 'feature' to stop people using hardware with drivers that weren't the super streamlined manufacturer's version, hence the extra hate from everyone when these official things didn't work properly.

          I learnt something today, yay. By being publicly ignorant, boo hiss.

          1. Sandtitz Silver badge

            Re: "and the Windows app store remains disappointing. "

            "I still want to blame someone somewhere for failing to do something!"

            Me too. The problem is that companies that come up with a nice standard usually also introduce licensing which really limits the adoption factor. The other way is to set up a committee to come up with standards in emerging technology - unfortunately these standards always have an uphill battle since committee work is usually slow and more nimble companies may have a working non-standard products ready to capture the market months/years before standards based products appear.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Tablet mode issues

    It is interesting to see that the referenced thread is actually Part 2, and that the original was started on 27/01/15.

    14 months on, and only a third of the issues have been addressed. I wouldn't expect all to be addressed ever (some may be just taste), but such a low resolution figure illustrates two points that were concerning all through the pre-release insider phase : Microsoft ignoring feedback and being very slow to make the few improvements that they were inclined to make.

    Tablet-related features were the things I didn't like, but threads like this made me realise that mine was just one perspective and that for many others they were a good thing. So I started confining my feedback to telling them what's broken today.

    All a past life now. I'm only really interested in watching the train wreck, to be honest. And in keeping their mitts off my W7s.

    1. Paul Shirley

      Re: Tablet mode issues

      I think it was covered by the continuing begging to stop trying so hard to unify the UI across all devices. The tablet folk are suffering from Microsoft's necessary retreat from Metro's damage to the desktop, just like the desk folk suffered before then.

      Microsoft are still minded to see how much they can get away with annoying users with ill judged compromises in the UI. ATM they're on a drunken walk, randomly annoying every part of the market in turn. Feedback is telling them there isn't a single converged user base yet they carry on pretending there is and all it wants is a converged product, whatever the cost.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Tablet mode issues

        ... continuing begging to stop trying so hard to unify the UI across all devices

        That about sums it up, I think. I really noticed that with the Start Menu. It began promisingly, then they decided to junk what seemed acceptable in favour of a mixed Menu/Tiles thing.

        What surprised me then was the number of negative comments from Tile fans. Clearly unification was just pissing off both sides of the UI argument. But Microsoft just ignored everyone and carried on down that path.

        No surprise then that the thing hasn't exactly inspired a movement to jump en masse from 7/8.1 to 10

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Long File Path Support ?

    Did they fix the ridiculous, decade-old file path length limit problem ?

    Microsoft have thousands of developers and it's 2016, FFS.

    1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

      Re: Long File Path Support ?

      It's not broken. Microsoft promised developers back then that the largest possible buffer needed for those file APIs is 260 characters.

      Think for a moment what would happen if the OS suddenly started returning longer strings to those applications.

      That's not the only file API in Windows, though; it's just the oldest one. Use a newer API and Windows will let you use file paths up to 32,768 characters if you're stupid enough to have designed such a requirement into your application (or masochistic enough to use an application with such a requirement).

    2. Tim99 Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: Long File Path Support ?

      Particularly as, at the time, the MS Developer guidelines were to install your application into:

      Program Files\SoftwareCompany Name\Application Name\Version Number\

      I learnt this when I had customers who insisted on using a shared copy of our software in \\SomeIncrediblyLong_UNC_ServerName\DivisionName\DepartmentName\SharedFolder

      Fortunately the old IBM/Microsoft LAN Manager 'Map network drive' works, so you can just replace it with X:

    3. DJSpuddyLizard

      Re: Long File Path Support ?

      Did they fix the ridiculous, decade-old file path length limit problem ?

      No, but they did finally add WinFS!

      oh..... no they didn't.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Feedback

    Once I had installed my feedback OS everything started working fine.

    Telemetry much reduced too, ironically I call that a win-win even though it isn't anymore.

    Thanks

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Feedback

      I'v shut down everything single piece of Telemetry / Privacy Setting I could find (there's a lot), yet Microsoft still adds 'Like what you see?' to my start screen. Unbelieveable.

  7. Len Goddard

    Irrelevant

    I installed Win10 on a new machine a few months ago. This is basically a gaming box as I do anything serious on linux. Howerver, looking at the changes highlighted in this article:

    Improvements to Edge - I've yet to use Edge since there is no equivalents to some of the extensions I am used to on Palemoon/firefox. Can't say I've missed it.

    Maps - easier to use the browser.

    Feedback app asked me for an M$ logon so I deleted it.

    Then I deleted most of the rest of the deletable "modern apps" as none of them seemed to do anything useful. Except the calculator which I have kept for now.

    Oddly, although it would not let me delete Cortana (which is disabled anyway). It did let me delete the windows app store,

    What I want is the ability to skin the thing properly and get away from the horrible flat look. Give me back my Win2K lookalike desktop!

    1. Terry 6 Silver badge

      Re: Irrelevant

      The Windows haters will .....hate.

      For me, perfectly happy with Win 7 and using Win 10 now because I had replaced Win 8 with it on some new machines previously it's all as Len Goddard puts it, irrelevant.

      Win 10 is just a less messed-up version of Win 8.x which was a misbegotten travesty of an OS.

      I don't hate Microsoft. I'd rather them as a mainstream OS than paying Apple Tax or having Google's androids watching my every move. But I am pretty pissed off with the way they seem completely unable to focus on providing what might really give ordinary users control over their own machines. Which is what the OS is meant to do. All it's meant to do.

    2. joed

      Re: Irrelevant

      Cortana - put a stake into her heart by setting it to some MS forsaken country (forsaken or just lucky;)

      Egde - useless no matter what

      Maps - disabled, more telemetry if anything

      Feedback - MS doesn't care anyway

      Store - removal of that pesky thing likes to break down the broken system (similarly to removing random metro apps)

      Kill fire with fire - block Bing (at least) at your gateway, using Windows firewall works wonders (for now) and so does "grounding" the MS' crap in task scheduler.

      Startisback to the rescue (since Windows 8 times) - cheap, efficient and works better than anything MS could ever come up with.

    3. mswin10

      Re:Why Bother

      Why not stick with your Linux no one is forcing you to have Win10 you did not need to install it there's more than enough video's and detailed information out there to see what it looks like and know what it does

  8. BugabooSue
    Big Brother

    And does it still continually phone home?

    I'm guessing that will be a huge YES.

    I am also beginning to wonder why I keep looking for Good News wrt to Win10...?

    Yup. Apparently my descent into madness has finally begun in earnest -> thinking that there might be privacy improvements for users...

    Madness, I tell you!!!!! :D

  9. bombastic bob Silver badge

    change directions again and you go in a circle

    "At Build this week, Microsoft will be re-presenting its Windows story to developers, as well as emphasizing that it is now a cross-platform company with a strong cloud presence."

    WOW, yet ANOTHER major direction change! Has Microsoft *forgotten* that development cycles often go for YEARS, depending on the type of applications involved? Or hardware drivers, for that matter...

    It reminds me of a few OTHER direction changes, following "Developers developers developers developers"... back in Dec of 1993 as I recall...

    1. The ".Net" initiative, in the early noughties, coinciding with the "dot com" bubble. Fail.

    2. C-pound and all that bass-ackwards object-oriented "for the sake of object-oriented". NO LONGER do you have 'math.h' functions, it's now Math.whatever() and it just gets worse. In other words, SENIOR PROGRAMMERS MUST RE-LEARN and be JUNIOR PROGRAMMERS again. Yeah, NOT gonna happen...

    3. The ".Net" packages and the CLR. EVERYTHING about it. It's monolothic-ness, it's attempt to fix DLL hell and create NEW dependency and setup issues, blah blah blah. And not to forget, the SLOWNESS injected into the UI because of it.

    3. Windows Vista, forcing everyone to purchase THE MORE EXPENSIVE HARDWARE to be "compatible" with it [FYI this is TRULY why it failed].

    4. Silverlight.

    5. Half-a-dozen other "new technology W00T bandwagon na-naaah-nananaaah-nananaaaaaaaah" and then it's "no longer supported"

    6. Windows "Ape". Then "Ape point 1". Then Win-10-nic. Spinning like tires in the mud. Not to mention WinRT, XAML and "the Store", and those "the METRO" 'apps(sic)'. Again, senior C-pound developers having to "re-learn" the "Universal App(sic)" method. They're now Junior Devs ONCE AGAIN!

    Come on, Microsoft, PICK A PROPER DIRECTION and STICK WITH IT. Then, we can RELY on things being STABLE enough, for once, in order to make PLANS, long enough to get a stable product life cycle, at any rate...

    either that or we leave all of your "new, shiny" behind and just use C or C++/MFC or Java and target XP and 7, because together, that's MORE THAN HALF of the windows users...

    1. 1Rafayal

      Re: change directions again and you go in a circle

      Ladies and gentlemen, the sort of troll who likes to hide behind that broken coffee machine from the 90's

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Facepalm

      Re: change directions again and you go in a circle

      Best stick to writing in assembler, on Linux obviously.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Unhappy

        @J J Carter - Re: change directions again and you go in a circle

        By all means have a go at BB, but please don't insult those who write (or would prefer to write) in assembler. Some of us have feelings, you know.

      2. Tim99 Silver badge
        Coat

        Re: change directions again and you go in a circle

        Why would you use Linux, when you could have done it on OpenBSD?

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: change directions again and you go in a circle

      What is this C£ of which you speak? Is this some open source rip off of C#?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: change directions again and you go in a circle

      1. The ".Net" initiative, in the early noughties [Success], coinciding with the "dot com" bubble.

      2. C# - Success. Oh, sorry, you had to learn something new?

      3. The ".Net" packages and the CLR. - Success. New dependency issues? Sorry, as long as you have the right framework installed, it should run (and the installer can install the framework for you, BTW)

      3. [Did you know you can't count, old-timer?] Windows Vista. Vista did sometimes require new hardware - graphics requirements for the UI for one. Manufacturers also had to provide 32 and 64 bit drivers, which it the major reason any of us are using 64-bit windows OS today.

      4. Silverlight. - agree FAIL. Complete FAIL.

      6. Must have missed something, I don't recall Windows "Ape". Please include Win 8 here with 10.

      Metro and App store - FAIL. Truth is though, real C# programmers aren't bothering with Universal Apps.

      I'd rather NOT have to go back to the dark ages of C++/MFC, thank you. BTW, Java == C#. Now, I never bothered to move from WinForms to WPF, because.... Why?

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They removed the persistent sticky corners between two monitors yet (no - none of the win 8 fixes get rid of it)? As that shit is infuriating.

  11. Tromos

    These Microsoft engineer's comments

    Would they be along the lines of "La, la, la, la ,la, I can't hear you"?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: These Microsoft engineer's comments

      They'll just be AI Generated by Tay.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge

      Re: These Microsoft engineer's comments

      "Would they be along the lines of 'La, la, la, la ,la, I can't hear you'?"

      more like "We really understand what you're saying here... BUT" followed by dogmatic adherence to stated policy from on high within the halls of Redmond.

      From what I've gleaned, from discussing certain key issues with MS engineers online [and in one case, in person], *THEY* don't necessarily like the adware/spyware, nor necessarily the 2D FLUGLY, or barely usable "start thing". But they want to keep their jobs, so it's "nod vertically" when the new direction is announced, and apologetically pass that along, k-thx.

  12. RonWheeler

    Still ugly blocky flat interface with broken start menu

    Yeah, I get it, it sort of half works on my Linx 10 tablet. But for my main desktop PC, Win10 is still an ugly abomination unless i tweak the hell out of it with Windowblinds 10, Start 10 etc etc.

    MS - fix the ugly and unusable, not the broken Chrome/Firefox downloader..

    1. 1Rafayal

      Re: Still ugly blocky flat interface with broken start menu

      Ahh, again, someone else who hasnt actually used Windows 10 complains about Windows 10

      1. RonWheeler

        Re: Still ugly blocky flat interface with broken start menu

        Wrong.

        1. 1Rafayal

          Re: Still ugly blocky flat interface with broken start menu

          Finally, some sense.

  13. Solxdi

    Stay with 7

    In its normal cycle MS would screw up every other version of windows, however with 10 that’s not the case, both windows 8, 8.1 and windows 10 suck. I recently downgraded my home desktop from 10 back to 7 so I could get some older software working again, although I do use 10 on my office PC.

    Not sure the new model that MS have adopted will ever take off. We all know that the ultimate aim is to get windows out in the market as SAS each user paying a monthly or annual subscription, just like adobe, that’s when the shit will hit the fan with the user base.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Stay with 7

      MS have added an extra development cycle, like Intel with regard to Moore's Law, its now suck, suck, suck.

    2. 1Rafayal

      Re: Stay with 7

      Didnt Microsoft say they were going to yearly rolling updates a while back?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Stay with 7

        Under Ballmer, that was the plan with Windows 8.x and its 'rapid release cycle'. Then it moved to bi-yearly-cumulative 6 monthly updates under Win10, the last under this plan - Redstone is still on schedule (ish). After which they are dropping the 6 monthly updates, to concentrate on releases linked/in-line with new MS Hardware announcements/updates. It all sounds very Apple like.

        1. 1Rafayal

          Re: Stay with 7

          Unfortunately, hardware is probably the only place Microsoft can retreat into. Which is good for no one really.

    3. David Lewis 2
      Coat

      Re: Stay with 7

      If they stayed true to form then Windows 9 would have been awesome!

      1. Captain DaFt

        Re: Stay with 7

        "If they stayed true to form then Windows 9 would have been awesome!"

        /jk It was /jk

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    I will never again get those GWX nag messages!

    That's right, I upgrade my last machine (HP54L NAS) to Windows 10 last night! Like the netbook, 2-in-1, laptop and home-built tower I've upgraded, all running as sweet as nut.

    Must be I'm competent or summat!

    1. 1Rafayal

      Re: I will never again get those GWX nag messages!

      well, if you go by the comments here, it means you are a complete liar. It would be impossible for you to even boot your machines once Windows 10 was installed, let alone use them according to the commentards.

      Given that Windows 8.1 and 10 have been so terribly, terribly awful there must have been something even worse wrong with all the Linux distributions that came out over the same time frame.

      1. azaks

        Re: I will never again get those GWX nag messages!

        >> well, if you go by the comments here

        Just ignore them like their employers and everybody else does. They're used to it

    2. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: I will never again get those GWX nag messages!

      Well you've just agreed to MS auto updating your machine to whatever OS it decides to send you without having to ask permission or give you any warning...

      Is that really such a good place to be?

      1. 1Rafayal

        Re: I will never again get those GWX nag messages!

        I am a little different in that regard.

        As a Sony VAIO laptop user (there are only about 4 of us in the wild) we were prevented from upgrading from 8.1 to 10 automatically until a few weeks ago. Sony had basically set VAIO Care to not allow it to be sent out to its devices. Their reason was simple, they were not sure it would be stable. The only stability issue with Windows 10 I have had so far is with my graphics card, which when it went wrong was a complete bugger to get fixed.

        The only reason I upgraded to 10 before that point was because my HDD died and needed a new OS.

        Now, I will assume that all the Linux beards will be guffawing into the froth atop the real ale in their dimple mugs at hearing that; "Why not install Ubuntu!" they may mutter between themselves.

        The Linux hipsters will be screaming me down from behind a distro that isn't mainstream, so you probably never heard of it. But screaming quietly, in case they are caught by their mothers.

        The Apple users will be a bit confused as they think that an OS is just something you get for free with the box you plug your iphone into.

        At the end of the day, I had a working internet connection, a USB drive, the ability to put the installer on said drive and the desire to see something new.

        It was either that or stick with the XP user experience for the next 14 years....

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: I will never again get those GWX nag messages!

        >Is that really such a good place to be?<

        If I was running a safety-critical system I'd have opted for the long-term servicing branch. But I don't have any philosophical objection to 'ever green' services, be that WIndows 10, Office 365,...

        1. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: I will never again get those GWX nag messages! @J J Carter

          I think you missed my point.

          Let us say WinXP was the first iteration of Windows under the Win10 EULA then you would have received: Vista, 7, 8 8.1 and finally 10; all without prior announcement or warning that the auto 'updates' being applied to your system were making substantive changes...

          My point is that under the Win10 EULA MS are free to deliver whatever changes they deem appropriate and accept zero responsibility or liability if things go wrong.

          Personally, I like to be able to walk away from my PC at the end of a day and return to it the next morning and be greeted with the same UI etc.

  15. Noram
    FAIL

    I wonder if the Edge update fixes the inprivate not being private issue

    I'm probably one of the few who has been reasonably happy with Windows 10 (it's an improvement over 8 and 8.1), but I have noticed that Edge has a problem with it's inprivate feature not working.

    Namely it remembers URL's from previous inprivate sessions and shares them with the normal edge sessions. Not ideal for something that is meant to stop exactly that from happening (and yes the system is fully updated).

    1. cmannett85

      Re: I wonder if the Edge update fixes the inprivate not being private issue

      "I have noticed that Edge has a problem with it's inprivate feature not working"

      That's not a bug.

    2. TheVogon

      Re: I wonder if the Edge update fixes the inprivate not being private issue

      "I have noticed that Edge has a problem with it's inprivate feature not working.

      Namely it remembers URL's from previous inprivate sessions and shares them with the normal edge sessions"

      Yes that was fixed on Insider builds a while back.

  16. Tezfair

    Bad version

    I had to roll my insider preview back as the graphics locked up or the login screen hung. MS seems to be going backups again.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Abandon hope all ye who enter here

      They flipped into neutral after Win 2K and crashed into reverse around 2005.

      This explains why the Win X user experience feels like Win 95 all over again

      i.e. dreadfully dumbed down

    2. TheVogon

      Re: Bad version

      "I had to roll my insider preview back as the graphics locked up or the login screen hung."

      Check you are running the current BIOS and latest OEM drivers...fine here.

  17. Eddy Ito

    "... pre-Build Windows 10 preview"

    So does this whole WaaS mean that Windows 10 is not now and never will be fully baked?

    And here I thought Apple's 10.x was getting a bit old and confused identity wise. Come on, who will be the first to follow Spinal Tap and go to 11?

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The most interesting feature is a promise.

    Brilliant! Love it!

  19. Johnny Canuck

    stupid windows 10

    I upgraded a fresh install of Windows 7 to Windows 10 on the weekend. I made the blatently stupid mistake of having an ethernet cable plugged in whilst doing the upgrade. Apparently the windows installer thinks this means I don't want to use wireless...EVER! That's right, I can no longer turn on my wireless!. The correct driver for the wireless is installed, I've tried most the solutions I found on the internet without luck. The correct solution, it seems, is to roll back to Windows 7, and do the upgrade again but without the ethernet cable attached. Did I mention I bought a brand new SSD to put Windows 10 on?

    1. azaks

      Re: stupid windows 10

      >> The correct solution, it seems, is to roll back to Windows 7, and do the upgrade again but without the ethernet cable attached

      Not sure you've diagnosed that one correctly. My guess is that doing that will leave you with no network connection at all.

      1. arctic_haze

        Re: stupid windows 10

        >> The correct solution, it seems, is to roll back to Windows 7 <<

        Insert full stop here.

  20. arctic_haze

    It seems the Tay bot has not been erased

    Its new version has been unleashed onto this site to promote Windows 10.

  21. MrTuK

    Some really funny comments on both sides of the fence, especially from the guys who hate the Windows haters - lol, I wonder how they became Windows haters even though they love Win 7 mayeb they didn't want to or don't want to be upgraded or the Linux users that finally had eaten enough BS from MS that they decided to jump ship to MacOS or whatever Linux Distro that suited them - mine being Linux Mint !

    All I can say is if you are happy with Win 10 then that is fine, but a lot of people are not and a lot of people are not happy with MS trying to force them to upgrade when they don't want to and possibly because they don't want to be data slurped or have already been down that road and it didn't work for them either in a UI or it actually didn't upgrade and rolled back or had to do a complete re-install of Win 7.

    Personally I don't care anymore, I can run a lot of Window's programs from something called Virtual Box running a VM of Win 7, but when I want the full performance of my i7 Alienware M17x Laptop then I use Linux, when there is no equivalent software I just use the VirtualBox VM of Win 7 and the software I require its that simple, BTW I have turned of MS updates as they are not required so there is no chance it will try to upgrade itself to Win 10 - LOL !

    There is something quite peculiar with Linux though for some reason it never uses more than 3GB of my 16GB of ram installed and I am still waiting for it to use more than 200MB of swap file space too, I really don't understand this as Windows used lots and it always uses more than 3GB of my 16GB of ram too - really weird that, I just wish I had tried Linux Mint before upgrading my Ram from 8GB to 16GB but thats life !

    1. 1Rafayal

      you will find that a lot of the Windows 10 and 8.1 hate will come from windows 7 and XP users, I honestly dont think Linux users actually care one way or another about Windows of any version unless they are forced into using it.

      For this group of people, they simply dont want things to change, they just want the same user experience that they have been getting since XP was released. Its this group that will complain about the Windows 8.1 and 10's GUI without actually using the OS, there are a lot of them on this thread. They will shout and whine, demanding that we all roll back to Windows 7 in order to avoid the dreaded "telemetry" and "data slurping" intrinsic to Windows 8.x and 10. So, it would seem we are in the second age of the Wintard as MS added all these dreaded features to Windows 7 last year: KB3068708. KB3075249 and KB3080149

      Next, you have a group of Windows users who are just confused with the latest release strategy from MS. We were all pretty used to the good release/crap release schedule. These people just want to know whats going on etc

    2. mswin10
      Facepalm

      Choice

      The word force seems to be used more as a way of complaining. The situation in this instance is Microsoft is creating a New Eco system there's no right or wrongs that is where they are going. Now just like any business they will have issues that will need to be ironed out Just like Apple just like Linux or any other Business including manufacturing.

      Now Microsoft in their wisdom release the insider program that would allow anyone to install the latest release if you CHOOSE and then be able to give constructive feedback (likes/dislikes) yes you will get the people who say make it look and feel like XP, Vista, or Win 7 that's maybe a lack of understanding of the word New, but the aim here is to make continuous improvements.

      Progress can be a pain in the ass at times but its life and that is not going to change I am now 61 and seen loads of changes some good some bad, but change is always round the corner.

      I have been in IT now for 15years and discovered changes happen at an extremely fast rate and my head is bursting having to continually update my knowledge no different really as to when I was an engineer albeit change happened a lot slower.

      Progress is force when the Iron heated on the fire was changed to electric, when the wash tub was changed to an all in one washing machine and the list goes on, you could say progressive force as the old stuff becomes obsolete or unsupported but there is nothing forcing you to change at that moment it is your decision the same way it is your decision if you want to stay on XP Vista win7 or if you choose to go to Apple, Linux or Andriod.

      There are people who don’t like change full stop that’s fine but they seem to want to force other people to agree with them and you see it all the while on these comment sections of the editorial hypes.

      Then you will get those who are aligned to a specific OS eg: An Apple or Linux user commenting on a Windows forum and vice versa, which makes me wonder again an eg: why a person who is happy with Linux or Apple bother to take their time to read Microsoft articles and then comment (Strange)

      It is even stranger on the Windows mobile forum the numpties that includes the editorial commentators saying why not make the Windows phones more like Apple or Andriod now that does take some head scratching.

      Are well life will go on and so Apple will become Pear, Andriod will become Driod and Linux just Xunil, and all down to the FORCE

      .

  22. Terry 6 Silver badge

    A kind of a post script ( 'cept this thread will probably roll on)

    Part of the Windows 10 experience this evening.

    There was an update to one of my programmes. I have its start menu link in a start menu folder with similar programmes. But tonight there is a folder bang in the middle of in my start menu for this item. Microsoft do not let us right click aforesaid folders and move/remove them. Instead we have to click on the unwanted folder, to open it. Then right click on the programme link within it and choose to open the containing folder, then move the link, then go back, go up one level and delete the folder.

    Except, by the glory of this design, even that won't work on updates. By some internal mystery when choosing to open the containing folder the new menu item actually opens up into the folder where I had originally put it, even though it shows in the start menu in its own folder. There isn't actually any new containing folder. To stop this ghost folder appearing you have to rename the programme slightly, by adding or removing a letter. Then when you go back and look at the start menu, it will have appeared again in the right folder ( but with the slightly different name which you can now rename back if you so wish). I remember in my youth learning about "computer logic". I don't think that was what they meant.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A kind of a post script ( 'cept this thread will probably roll on)

      It seems that there's Logic and then there's Microsoft Logic.

      Best to avoid it rather than try to understand it - that way lies madness.

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