As US$12bn is wiped off Apple's value in one day, iOS 9, OS X 10.11 and Watch OS 2 dates set

Apple unveiled a trio of new products today, but Wall Street was hardly moved, as the Cupertino electronics racket dropped its stock price. CEO Tim Cook took to the stage in San Francisco on Wednesday to show off the iPad Pro, iPhone 6S/6S Plus, and Apple TV. Though the Apple-appointed crowd cooed and fawned over the new …

[El Limerino]

New rule...

New rule: whenever doing a piece about a stock price change, you must also state how the market overall moved the same day. That way we can tell if a fall or rise is merely average, or something actually news-worthy.

So today, for example, NASDAQ was down 1.15%, making Apple's slide slightly worse than average, but not nearly as bad as -1.93% or "$12 Beeeelion dollars!"

Sorry if this was entirely too serious a comment, but you Register guys and gals didn't have a slow news day, so there's really no excuse for this sort of not-news article.

[Lusty]

Re: New rule...

A good excuse might be hinting to Reg readers that now is the time to buy Apple stock. It'll bounce back once the TV and Phone start selling in huge numbers, and I can see them shifting quite a few iPad Pro devices to non home users too. All our media customers would think the iPP costs peanuts for what it offers them, and just like the Surface Pro will therefore sell just fine to business.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: New rule...

"the Surface Pro will therefore sell just fine to business."

Really? Most businesses that don't have beanbags on the floor and staff with look-at-me hairstyles drinking coffee made from recycled organic catnip haven't fallen for the Apple brainwashing yet. I see no reason for that to change just because Cupertino has released more of the same but with - *gasp*- A Bigger Screen! And an overpriced stylus probably recovered from the Newton parts bin. Oh, will someone hold me back...

Of course YMMV depending how much your brain is affected by the distortion field.

[Naselus]

Re: New rule...

"It'll bounce back once the TV and Phone start selling in huge numbers, and I can see them shifting quite a few iPad Pro devices to non home users too. "

Or it, along with all the other tech stocks, was ridiculously overvalued by the end of Q2 this year. Apple are probably worth a still very respectable 400 billion (which is pretty much where they were in 2013 on the back of similar profit levels), but not 700 billion. There is no particularly good reason for Apple to have a market cap that is larger than the next two largest companies in the world combined.

[Philip Howard]

Re: New rule...

Ah, but did Apple's poor performance cause the slide in the NASDAQ or was it vice versa? Which is the cause and which is the effect?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: New rule...Which is the cause and which is the effect?

This simple question explains why (a) economics is not an exact science and (b) the one thing you can be sure of about investment is that despite all the computers, physics graduates, economists and the rest, nobody really knows anything.

[TheVogon]

Re: New rule...

"Maybe that enormo-slab stylus wasn't such a hot idea?"

It's working well for Microsoft - which is likely the issue here - the Apple product is largely a rip off of Surface - but costs more for a less powerful product and without the enterprise management tools that Microsoft delivers and without the enterprise support from the likes of Dell and HP that Surface has. This will be a niche product for rich Apple fans.

[Danny 14]

Re: New rule...

businesses like the surface because it is just another office device. Add a VPN and there you go, a tablet hooked up to the network with all the usual domain bells and whistles. When the boss comes in with an ipad and says "where are my documents? where is the shared finance drive?" he doesn't like being told "well you cant do it like that unless you buy me a shiny new apple server"

with a surface it just works. Sure that's not for every business but for quite a few it is really that simple.

[Lusty]

Re: New rule...

Lol @danny 14 update your skills ffs. Even Windows devices don't work like that these days!

[Anonymous Coward]

there's really no excuse for this sort of not-news article...

Oh yes there is :-)

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2015/09/20150909_aapl7_1.jpg

See: Have We Reached Peak Apple?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-09/have-we-reached-peak-apple

[Buzzword]

Re: there's really no excuse for this sort of not-news article...

Peak Apple? We've been there before:

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=peak+apple

[Your alien overlord - fear me]

But what's that as a percentage in mango fruit (or whatever El Reg's stock market index counter is measured in)?

[Sirius Lee]

Come out of your bubble

"...iPhone 6 Plus and Macbook lines are narrowing the market for tablets..."

Or there are better/as good products that cost a lot less.

[LucreLout]

Re: Come out of your bubble

@Sirius Lee

Or there are better/as good products that cost a lot less.

I'm struggling to see how new customers, rather than existing fanbois, could look at something like the Wiley Fox Storm for £200 and then decide to buy the new iPhone for £600. Existing customers are pretty much a given, but growth needs new markets, new products, or new customers for what you already have.

Where's the innovation? Apple seem to have dusted off the right click context menus the rest of the world have had since the 1980s and just added that as the main selling point.

While not owning many Apple products, they've driven markets that have made my life more convenient & productive than it used to be. I want them to innovate and keep pushing new markets. I get that without the genius of Steve Jobs that will be extremely difficult, but I had hoped the Jobsian product pipeline would have ran for a few more years yet.

[That Awful Puppy]

Re: Come out of your bubble

I'm struggling to see how new customers, rather than existing fanbois, could look at something like the Wiley Fox Storm for £200 and then decide to buy the new iPhone for £600.

I can. The GF had a dumbphone for a long while, but then she needed a smartphone for work. As she has the habit of just clicking through everything without even so much as a cursory glance at the text, I figured it'd cost us less to just get her an iPhone. I took my usual hourly rate, multiplied it by the 30-odd or so hours I imagined would be spent removing N dodgy apps and configuration fuck-ups in the first six months, and decided that buying an Android phone, nice though they might be, just wasn't worth it.

So far, she seems very happy with it, although I'm sure she'll manage to break it somehow, as she seems to project a very powerful Electronics Malfunction Field.

[Tony Paulazzo]

Bubble bursting

With Steve Jobs at the helm Apple innovated, with no Steve Jobs they simply copy, slightly shinier, slightly costlier but never better. This is simply their slow slide into obscurity. Like MS they have the banked billions to hide their death rattle, but like AOL, IBM, and er, other tech giants, time for something from leftfield to take their place.

Google are doing well at maintaining their place on the world stage, but look at what they're doing, self driving cars, Google Goggles, fibering up cities for cheap (er) broadband...

The ipad was the last innovative thing Apple did and that's been bettered by any type of OtherOS tablet out there - the Lenovo with its 18 hour battery, the Surface Pro 3 with full fat Windows...

[Halfmad]

Re: Bubble bursting

I disagree, I don't think Jobs was the innovator people make him out to be, I think he had an eye for advertising and packaging a product together which met the requirements, or rather perceived requirements of the mass market far better than other tech firm heads could. Problem is without him at the helm Apple don't seem to be thinking ahead anymore, the product line is getting messy and disjointed, it's almost as if they've stopped taking any risk at all.

I'm not someone who's brand loyal at all, I have Microsoft, Sony, google, Samsung, Nintendo and Apple products in my house but the Apple range is starting to look like the Samsung one, all over the place without any specific focus or over-arching long term vision, they're developing re-actively, rather than pushing their competitors. Short term I can continue seeing them grow, but longer term they're going to have to start pushing again and to be honest I think they've run out of ideas for how to repackage the same old product with a handful of updates.

[Stuart Castle]

Re: Bubble bursting

From what I understand about Steve Jobs he wasn't technically that great, but he was able to push those around him to innovate, and he had a good eye for what future technology would sell. He wasn't a particularly nice boss, but he rewarded those who did their jobs well.

Remember things Apple have achieved under his leadership.. First relatively cheap all in one computer (the Apple II). First commercially available computer with a GUI (Lisa). First relatively cheap commercially available computer with a GUI (Macintosh). They were also (I believe) the first company to introduce full WiFi support across their range, as well as the first company to move away from floppy disks.

Apparently, the Apple II having an internal power supply was a major breakthrough as (at the time) no power supply small enough to fit in the case could provide anywhere near enough power for the computer.

I am not saying Steve Jobs achieved those things himself. He didn't. The technicians and engineers under him did.

Apple, under Tim Cook, does not seem to be innovating so much. The have improved the products they had, made them thinner and faster, while improving battery life (if appropriate), but where are the products that have the "wow" factor that the first iMac, iPod, iPhone or iPad had? Even the Macbook air, while a laptop (and therefore hardly anything new) had it's "wow" moment when Steve Jobs pulled it out of an a4 envelope.

I don't think it's only Apple though. Every new generation of every mobile device is the same as the previous one, just with more memory, a faster CPU, better graphics and a better camera. There's no real "wow" there. While Google do have some new devices with the "Wow" factor (like Glass), there is the added creepy factor that seemingly everything Google do is intended to track it's users.

Personally, with Apple, I'd like to see them move away from making things thinner and offer things like memory card support. With the laptops, I'd like to see them back away from the SSDs a little and offer HDDs to those of us who need more storage as much as we need battery life and speed of access.

[John Sanders]

Re: Bubble bursting

>>I don't think it's only Apple though. Every new generation of every mobile device is the same as the previous one, just with more memory, a faster CPU, better graphics and a better camera. There's no real "wow" there.

It is because there are not so many ways to implement a hammer while retaining its core functionality.

Why other phone form factor seems to have gone the way of the do-do has to do with something called "cargo cult". Check it out on the mikipedia.

>>While Google do have some new devices with the "Wow" factor (like Glass), there is the added creepy factor that seemingly everything Google do is intended to track it's users.

I may, or I may not need a saw.

In the particular case of Google Glass, it does not help that the device fits the collective impression of a device seen on spy movies, a spy device connected to a large public network BTW.

Not hard to do the math on Google Glass.

[Vic]

Re: Bubble bursting

Apparently, the Apple II having an internal power supply was a major breakthrough as (at the time) no power supply small enough to fit in the case could provide anywhere near enough power for the computer.

No, it wasn't. Internal supplies were the norm back then - external supplies came later.

What was a little unusual was that they had switch-mode supplies before many others. This, apparently, led to Apple being rejected as the BBC Micro - the BBC were concerned about RF noise. Thus the Acorn Proton got the gig.

Vic.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Bubble bursting

No, the Vic was Commodore.

[Vic]

Re: Bubble bursting

No, the Vic was Commodore.

What?

Perhaps we should have a "non-sequitur of the week" award...

Vic.

[Grikath]

Re: Bubble bursting

Or it's simply that mobile tech has "matured", and there's really not that much to be "innovative" (for a given value of "innovation") about anymore. Same as the PC business, where it's been ages since the Intel/AMD spats raged, and MS's latest release spawned a wave of sales as people upgraded hardware. Samsung has the same problem as Apple, really, and it shows. Same as there's solid business and technical reasons MS perpetrated Win8 on the population. ( If they had left out METRO it would actually have made sense and it wouldn't have been the debacle it has been.)

Google is in an entirely different market segment, (with its own ups and downs), and has from the start had a different philosophy about complacency. Although splitting off Google under the XYZ umbrella should be a big fat red sign even there not everything is as rosy as it seems.

And really, the stock market makes or breaks billions in any currency. It's not as if "money", as we poor sods understand it, is real...

[Teiwaz]

Re: Bubble bursting

Re: innovation.

Probably right. Even the watches were done first by others, and pretty much expected, not out from left field like the pod and pads.

However their design decisions still seem to hold appeal (for manufacturers at least, I know I'm bored of the 'slab' type mobile device which it seems are all that is available), with almost every single manufacturer copying the design at some level or other (slab like tablets with as rounded corners as they can get away with, slimmer and slimmer laptops).

[PC1512]

Re: Bubble bursting

Music players were done first by others. Smartphones were done first by others. Tablets were done first by others. Personal computers were done first by others for that matter. Apple have never been interested in being the first into any product category, they just generally end up being the best, or (at very least, if you're unable to stomach that) the most profitable.

[Naselus]

Re: Bubble bursting

"Apple have never been interested in being the first into any product category, they just generally end up being the best, or (at very least, if you're unable to stomach that) the most profitable."

Actually, they usually end up being chased out of that market almost completely by a competitor who understands sell-em-cheap-stack-em-high is a a better long-term strategy than 'only send 12 to the UK on release day and sell them for $1000 each'. Apple generally drop down to about 10% market share. Steve Jobs' was at his best when he was picking new, immature markets; Apple's pricing strategy and generally low specs compared to comparable alternatives make it pretty weak once a market begins to heat up. They go from 'everyone has an iDoodad' to 'only rich people have iDoodads, but they're a status item' to 'no-one gives a shit about iDoodad now except raving fanbois, because you can get this other company's doodad that is half the price, works better, and plays nicely with stuff made by other companies'.

Tim Cook has proven to be really quite bad at picking immature markets to move into. He's very much a care-taker CEO, tbh; he seems most comfortable iterating existing devices, which is fine if you're able to compete in a market but really isn't that compatible with Apple's usual market strategy. His innovations are horribly hit-and-miss; the Watch is really a flop (sure, it's doing well in 'wearable' terms, but the entire wearable market is also a flop); Apple Music has proven to be a failure AND has hurt relations with groups who were working with iTunes; and frankly the iPad Pro appears deeply confused about what it's supposed to be and where it should be placed in the market - it's wading into a dying market, exactly where Jobs didn't want to be at any given time.

[PC1512]

Re: Bubble bursting

It's funny when people talk regularly about the apple "reality distortion field" and then you get comments like this. I mean, what? Which "idoodad" areas do you think they've been chased out of? iPod is still the best selling music player line. iPhone is the best selling smartphone, with iOS actually making gains on the stack-em-high android competion in the last year or so. iPad is the best selling tablet. In which markets are they running scared?

30 years ago you might have had a point with the Mac vs PC.. only now even the Mac has been steadily building share for years amid failing PC sales.

[Bota]

So, I just saw they released ...

A $1000 ipad and a $100 pink (thanks Tim) pencil..

I don't know what they are smoking but it's rude not to offer.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: So, I just saw they released ...

Never underestimate the number of gullible trust fund hipsters there are in the world. They're probably queuing already - or once their beard combing session is complete anyway.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: So, I just saw they released ...

Well, my iPhone is dead. Sadly, the swim it took this week did not improve its performance, in fact it terminated it :(

1: I used the latest Android the other day. I still think it's just horrible,

2: I think the Sony stuff, being waterproof and all is fabulous design and tech, but see 1:

3: So a new iPhone it is ... but I wish Apple would match Sony on the waterproof feature.

While I am not queuing, I will acquire one asap

iPhone users are not all sheep, idiots, fanbois, retarted, hipsters and whatever other insults the commentards (and El Reg) sling at us. We mostly are just folk decided we like the products and the quality that Apple provide.

Working in an office that has a $10,000 espresso machine has nothing to do with it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: So, I just saw they released ...

Mmmmmm. Hipster Beards

[Jay 2]

I suspect a combo of these things:

1) New, well evolutionary, iThingies now appear almost as regular as clockwork every year

2) Apple stock may be overpriced to begin with (like many tech stocks)

3) Idiots on Wall Street etc who think that Apple will not only be bringing out super duper unthinkable gadgets every year, but will also continue to make more profit every year. These are the same people who invest in shit like FB and Twitter etc when there are loads of users/customers/suckers, but not so much in the way of making money.

[Anonymous Coward]

Inconsistent hardware ?

The new iPhone 6S has an A9 processor and can record in 4K video.

The new Apple TV has an A8 processor and can not show 4K video (only 1080).

The new iPhone 6S has a 12Mpixel camera

The new iPad Pro has an 8Mpixel camera and can not shoot 4K video

The new iPhone 6S has 3D touch

The new iPad Pro requires the new Apple Pencil to recognise input at different pressure

For me, from all of the above, the biggest flaw is the AppleTV hardware. Apple are promoting it as a platform to play games on and the phone has more capable processor/graphics ?

[Ken 16]

Re: Inconsistent hardware ?

I agree, all you really need is the iPad Pro with Pencil and the Watch, the rest are just gimmicks.

[PeterGriffin]

Re: Inconsistent hardware ?

I seem to recall my Samsung Galaxy S5 can record in 4K and is will over a year old. My Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 came supplied with a stylus supporting pressure sensitivity and is well over a year old. My Creative Zen Vision:M had touch sensitive controls and played video and music. In case anyone forgot Apple were sued by Creative and lost due to copying the interface... Apple are definitely now just a dedicated follower of fashion... Maybe worse since they seem to have adopted Embrace and Extend...

[W Donelson]

Sell on good news, idiots

Do any of you at Vulture droppings central actually have degrees in journalism?

Or did you just bus dishes in the cafeteria there once?

[Grikath]

Re: Sell on good news, idiots

As Real Life and lately increasingly the Interwebs have shown us , repeatedly and continuously, you do not need a Degree In Journalism to be a susccessful reporter, or run a successful news outlet, or gather 100 million followers on.... ( this utterly besides the point of any qualifications Vulture Central Denizens may or may not have.)

But I sense the Snark is strong in you , so I'll leave it at that..

[Random Handle]

Re: Sell on good news, idiots

>Do any of you at Vulture droppings central actually have degrees in journalism?

God I hope not - STEM should be mandatory - else anything but journalism, media studies and their ilk.

[Joerg]

This happens due to Tim Cook...

Tim Cook made Apple weak against stock market thieves. Steve Jobs didn't give those thieves any money for a good reason. He knew it would have weaken Apple

[Spanners]

Market share?

What is the global market share now for iPads, iPhones and other iThingies?

Perhaps a year ago, someone pointed me to a link for this but I can't find it.

[Stoneshop]

Watch OS 2 ?

Err, it's been called eComstation for at least a decade now, so Apple haven't been paying attention.

[PenfoldUK]

The Argos Connection

As a UK reader, this reminds me of my experiences with the Argos high street catalogue chain over the decades.

When it first came to my hometown, I was amazed at how high-tech and fast it was. The first time I bought something, it was ready waiting for me by the time I'd ordered and paid for it (separate transactions at two separate tills - those were the days).

Each time they brought a catalogue out, it was an exciting time. Seeing what new wonders they'd added. (No, I'm not being sarcastic, just nostalgic).

Then it got to the point where they reached saturation. Virtually everything they sell is just new iterations of the existing stuff. So the excitement of that new catalogue has gone...

[M Mouse]

Re: The Argos Connection

I don't remember when Argos moved forward to allow online reservations and put their catalogue online, but I seem to have been able to avoid having to carry their heavy catalogues for quite some time.

I should pop into the local store every few weeks to see their bargains in the thinner special offers "catalogue" but it's probably almost as easy these days to look on Amazon and Ebay for slightly - to - heavily discounted "clearance" items from the Argos, Tesco, Ebuyer, DSG "Outlet Store" sections.

Have to admit (as I have never bothered with a car) it's also very convenient for me to use the online services, as I also work from home, so delivery direct also easier than for many others.

My main point, however, is that despite most households (surely?) having at least a laptop (with past Govt schemes for affordable laptops with 'net access, for school age youngsters) and smartphone if not several smartphones [where any teens + twenties are resident], Argos still seem to bring out these heavy thick catalogues and they are picked up and taken home...

Would love a timeline showing (avg) numbers of thick catalogues printed each run, from say a year before online started (reliably) working to present day... Any "insider" have the figures or has a graph already been put online in some marketing study, please, someone, anyone ?

[Naselus]

I'm so confused

So, this is an Apple device desperately ripping off a Microsoft device. And the problem is that while the MS one 'just works', the Apple one requires specialists to come in and get it talking to the server.

Does anyone else feel like they've fallen into some weird twilight zone where everything they've been endlessly told by fanbois has been reversed somehow?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: I'm so confused

"Does anyone else feel like they've fallen into some weird twilight zone where everything they've been endlessly told by fanbois has been reversed somehow?"

Hurrah for revolution and more cannon-shot; a beggar on horse back lashes a beggar on foot.

Hurrah for revolution and cannon come again; the beggars have changed places but the lash goes on.

(Yeats)

[Mellipop]

Re: I'm so confused

MS tablets just work? Perhaps for individuals that might be the case.

In the enterprise world, MS tablets only work if you've an army of specialists that can configure AD, SCCS/InTune, Exchange and any legacy services they're relying on.

The iPad Pro is a professional tool and is likely the spawn of the arrangement between Apple & IBM.

This could spell the end of Microsoft's aspirations in the untethered world.

[Gazman]

Why Appearance v Reality Sometimes Matters

Steve Jobs made everything look new and exciting, even if it was just more of the same (e.g. bought-in technology like the original iPod).

Whereas...

Tim Cook makes everything look like more of the same, even if it is new and exciting (e.g. umm ... can't think of anything right now ... ).

[Developer Dude]

YES!

Economics 101:

Buy low, sell high.

With the stocks down, I put even more money into the market, buying at the lower prices.