back to article Judge flips class-action switch on Uber drivers' lawsuit against cab biz

A California judge has granted class-action status to a suit filed on behalf of Uber drivers. Judge Edward M Chen said the state's roughly 160,000 drivers from UberX, Uber Black, and Uber SUV services can sue the dial-a-ride broker taking a portion of tips. Three drivers had filed suit against Uber on behalf of drivers for …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Contractor vs Employee

    It seems to me to come down to that contractor/employee distinction. So which are they really? What are the criteria? Ars Technica has more info, but I'm still wondering.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Divide et impera

    Uber business model is as modern as ancient Rome... soon they will ask to repeal the 13th Amendment, to reestablish good old "contractor" practices...

  3. JayBizzle

    So essentially are Uber saying if you are a contractor then we get a slice of your added value.

    If part of the loss of tips is down to card processing fees, well that's part of using the service. Any more than that and they, in my opinion, have no right to it as they did nothing to earn that portion. Having not looked in the T&C's though they may say they take a percentage of the total revenue which is hard to argue with if you signed it.

  4. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    "Uber has maintained"

    And Uber can keep on maintaining until hens grow teeth, what matters is what the judge says.

    I love it when corporates try to redefine the law. They have to know that they'll lose, but PR dictates that they have to pretend they'll win.

    1. Mark 85

      Re: "Uber has maintained"

      Uber keeps trying to push the envelope... and trying and trying. This is just another speed-bump for them.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "Uber has maintained"

      This maybe helps:

      http://www.dol.gov/whd/workers/Misclassification/AI-2015_1.pdf

      The key is "economically dependent" - "In applying the economic realities factors, courts have described independent contractors as those workers with economic independence who are operating a business of their own."

      That's. for example, what could put airBNB in a different situation if used by people with theiir own income just trying to earn something more renting rooms or whatever.

  5. Chris G

    Ubersite

    Just another case of a parasitic middle man sucking workers dry, reminds me of my mate's music agent.

  6. Velv
    Black Helicopters

    I'm pretty sure the U.S. tax authorities have tips well and truly covered. But I can't wait to see where this one goes for UK drivers.

    "We're contractors"

    "No, we're employees and they're stealing our tips"

    HMRC - "IR35!"

    "We're not employees"

  7. introdium

    airBNB?

    and what would this mean for those who participate in AirBnB?

  8. Steve 129

    All started by lawyers ?

    OK, every time I read about someone trying to sue UBER for their gas money, car maintenance, tips etc... I have to think there is some a. hole lawyer poking the bear.

    All these drivers read and agreed to their contract with UBER, then suddenly decide (after making lots of money) that hey, let's see if we can squeeze more out of UBER ???!!

    One recent law suit was trying to claim $10Ks in expenses for gas !!! That is a LOT of gas, so why only now is it suddenly an issue?

    Most taxi drivers are independent contractors too (you will even see it printed on the side of the cars in many cases) "independently owned and operated". Taxi drivers can't claim gas money etc... from the taxi rank operators either. Gas money etc... is a business expense and should be claimed as a tax deduction.

    I just get really annoyed when people quite happily agree to terms and conditions, follow them quite happily for a long time then 'suddenly' decide they don't like them !!! If you don't like the terms, don't agree to them !!!

    1. tom dial Silver badge

      Re: All started by lawyers ?

      Class actions are mostly scam and extortion, the lawyers' way to aggregate a very large number of individually small claims so as to negotiate a settlement giving themselves a big payday while netting a few pennies for the claimants. Occasionally, the net residue for the "successful" plaintiff's is donated to a charity or other beneficent organization. Of perhaps half a dozen class actions in which I have been in the plaintiff class I think I have netted a check for a single digit number of dollars and collected a number of coupons good for discounts on products I had no need or desire for.

    2. Fatman
      WTF?

      Re: All started by lawyers ?

      <quote> Taxi drivers can't claim gas money etc... from the taxi rank operators either. Gas money etc... is a business expense and should be claimed as a tax deduction.</quote>

      I use cabs a lot, and I have come to know several drivers on a first name basis. In my area, cab drivers pay the cab operator a fixed daily rental for the cab; and all expenses are considered "cost of doing business". Thus, on a very slow day, it is quite possible for a driver to lose money (i.e. your fares don't even cover the daily rent.) The cab owner gets the daily rental, regardless, but, that does limit the owner's income.

      Which is why I generally tip a good driver nicely (i.e. no long wait times). Another thing is that I have come to prefer is to pay in cash, that means how much I pay the driver is between ME and HIM. No third party sticking their hand into the revenue stream. One of the reasons why I stopped using a credit card to pay for rides is because of the card surcharges, and often minimum fares for using a card. Since the cab company I use is a "independent collective" (i.e. many small operators operating a dispatch center, etc) it is possible to contact a preferred driver directly on their cell, and bypass the dispatcher, and the dispatcher "knowing" about the fare.

      You don't have this option with Uber and Lyft. They want to insert themselves into the payment stream, and regulate how much the fare is; unlike with a traditional cab, where you pay what is on the meter.

      In my area, one county is engaged in a court battle with both Uber and Lyft over their not operating as cabs. In THAT county, the public transit operator is 'considering' """partnering""" with Uber and Lyft in an attempt to solve their 'last mile' problems. It is simply incredible that one arm of COUNTY government is trying to put them OUT OF BUSINESS, while a different one is trying to """partner""" with them.

      Meanwhile, while several cities in an adjacent county, are more receptive.

      Politicians!!!!

      Most likely, the resolution will be at the state level, which MUST include mandatory liability insurance coverage. Right now, in a marked cab, we know whose insurance is supposed to cover passengers and pedestrians in the event of an accident. That is why commercial vehicle insurance is so expensive. That is somewhat cloudy with respect to Uber and Lyft, exactly WHOSE insurance pays out, and when. Is a Uber driver responding to a call covered by their own PRIVATE insurance, or by Uber's 'insurance'. Do you have to sue both in order to get a a claim paid as one company might be pointing the finger at the other company. Cue the lawyers.

    3. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: All started by lawyers ?

      Steve 129, the problem is that Uber drivers are not "making lots of money". Most of the time they are destroying their vehicles to make minimum wage. The money is ok until one factors in the fuel and mileage, then it looks much better to get a PT job at a take away.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sooner or later, Uber will hire someone to provide them some Ethics

    I've not seen even a smidgen of ethics from their childish management team.

    I'd be in favour of their conceptual business model, but they seem so slimy it's beyond just difficult to be a fan. It's impossible. Uber is to the e-Taxi business as Donald Trump is to the office of the POTUS. Yuck.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Sooner or later, Uber will hire someone to provide them some Ethics

      I think there's a deliberate policy at the moment of 'Bull in a china shop' tactics, or 'shock and awe'; go in hard, and when you've made a proper mess, see how much stomach the opposition still have to defend all of their turf. The slimy vulgarity is a part of the process.

      They have some big backers who love nothing better than a profit for doing nothing more than investing, and it doubtless appeals that there's yet another area at the bottom of the heap that can be wrung dry from on high. I doubt ethics will have much of a shout till some regulation steps in, but given that they're both a global business and also in a sense very, very local, divide and rule will doubtless do them no end of favours with the relevant authorities. There's certainly no shortage of the worlds major cities with populations who see the existing dominant cab regime as not at all in their favour, anything else probably has an appeal.

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