back to article Queen's Speech: Snoopers' Charter RETURNS amid 'modernisation' push

The first session of the new Parliament was opened by the Queen today and, as expected, a renewed push for a Snoopers' Charter was high on the agenda. Her Majesty said: Measures will also be brought forward to promote social cohesion and protect people by tackling extremism. New legislation will modernise the law on …

  1. 2460 Something

    Well...

    We knew it was coming but it doesn't make it any easier to take. I can only hope that some crazy amount of sanity somehow prevails in parliament when it is voted for and it gets rejected.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Well...

      The Tories hold a majority. Bend over and open your wallet, peasant. The bankers need more bonuses.

      1. wolfetone Silver badge

        Re: Well...

        They hold a majority of 12, so if the rest of Parliament vote No, it isn't that far out to think 12 Tory MP's with a conscience could vote no as well.

        Who am I kidding. It's hard enough to find 1 Tory MP with a conscience, let alone 12.

        1. Gordon 10

          Re: Well...

          In this particular respect David Davis is a Tory with some conscience around Civil liberties. There are a few others as well.

          Infact there were 10 Tory MP's who voted against the last time, 20 odd labour and the whole of the SNP.

          Plus the lords have kicked it into touch on numerous occasions inspite of a large Tory majority.

          There's plenty of fight in the dog yet....

          We need to write to our MP's saying we will track and remember how they voted on this issue when the next election comes round.

          Donate money and time to Liberty, Privacy International, Big Brother Watch and any political party who comes out against it. Then tell your MP about that too.

          It can be fought if we are passionate and articulate enough.

          As techies we need to educate (but not lecture or hector) the rest of our society on why this is such a bad idea, something we do badly currently - because we know it so instinctively that we dont provide good examples to that the general public care about.

          1. Bernard M. Orwell

            Re: Well...

            "Donate money and time to Liberty, Privacy International, Big Brother Watch and any political party who comes out against it. Then tell your MP about that too."

            Quick, before they are labelled as 'extremist philosophies likely to inspire terrorism.'

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Well...

            It's a manifesto commitment, which means it can be forced through Lords ( see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_Convention )

          3. Mark 65

            Re: Well...

            As techies we need to educate (but not lecture or hector) the rest of our society on why this is such a bad idea, something we do badly currently - because we know it so instinctively that we dont provide good examples to that the general public care about.

            Oh, you'd like to think that wouldn't you? However, I had an interesting conversation just after the start of the Snowden revelations with a Gen Y who shall remain nameless. They were and are your stereotypical Facebook centric Twitterati. When I tried to explain just how much data is being captured and stored forever and the level of invasiveness involved their answer was, and remained, that they didn't have anything to hide (a bold statement indeed) and didn't care. Unfortunately there is that level of stupidity indoctrination present in the masses that I can honestly believe the "think of the children" approach coupled with a laissez faire attitude would get a majority public support. There are those that are fully ignorant of entities like the Stazi, have no concept of the Orwellian nightmare we approach, or simply couldn't give less of a shit provided everyone gets their selfie at bar X update.

            1. Someone Else Silver badge
              Facepalm

              @Mark 65 -- Re: Well...

              However, I had an interesting conversation just after the start of the Snowden revelations with a Gen Y who shall remain nameless. They were and are your stereotypical Facebook centric Twitterati.

              Hell, Mark...name him or her (or them). IMHO, public ridicule on their oh-so-precious "social meeja" is quite likely the only lever that will get them off of top dead center and activate what passes for synapses in these people.

        2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

          Re: Well...

          They hold a majority of 12, so if the rest of Parliament vote No, it isn't that far out to think 12 Tory MP's with a conscience could vote no as well.

          That's the government majority but, as the Ulster unionists will generally vote with the government (there will be sweetener of course), and Sinn Fein MPs don't take their seats, the working majority is actually quite a bit more. At least when it comes to regressive measures.

          Now, if they were to try and introduce any progressive legislation then that majority will look a lot thinner.

        3. chris121254

          Re: Well...

          there are more then 1 Tory MP with a conscience! dont give up! help us fight!

        4. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Well...

          Don't forget the Bankers now pay 70% less tax to UK, than they did in 2012..(big thanks Dave, we are all in it together rolling in cash!!!).

          Even though their profit's have recovered to pre-crash levels.

          That will really punish them for fucking us all over!!!!!.

          mmm, I wonder who is making up that Tax shortfall?

        5. This post has been deleted by its author

        6. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

          Re: Well...

          "It's hard enough to find 1 Tory MP with a conscience"

          My MP voted against the govt a number of times in the last parliament. And he'll be getting his ear bent about this.

        7. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Well...

          'Hard enough to find 1 Tory MP with a concience'

          To be fair David Davis has been pretty good, i think. At least with the privacy stuff.

      2. lorisarvendu

        Re: Well...

        It's only a majority of 15. Easily defeatable. Don't renew your passport just yet.

      3. Graham Dawson Silver badge

        Re: Well...

        Labour held a far larger majority and they couldn't push this shit through when they tried.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Unhappy

          Re: Well...

          Labour held a far larger majority and they couldn't push this shit through when they tried.

          *cough* RIPA

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Well...

            Indeed it's been trying to get through the house since the turn of the millennia.

            Was it IMP back then or was that the new new name?

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Well...

            That was in 2000 before 9/11. It's almost like Tony knew what was coming.

      4. chris121254

        Re: Well...

        a majority of 12 most likely the bill will fail! don't bend over and open your wallet! fight or are you a sheep?

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Well...

      It's also likely to contravene EU legislation (data protection, civil rights, single market, etc.) which may be why there's also going to be a referendum on that. "We're British! We've never had civil rights and don't intend to start having them now!"

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Well...

      Come on, Labour will only quibble over the fact it doesn't go nearly far enough.

      And the Lords will harrumph and then back down because of some piece of nonsense called the Salisbury Convention that they will not block a manifesto commitment no matter how dangerous or insane it is.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Well...

      At least we have an ally on the Tory benches in David Davis, hopefully he can get enough opposition together to smack it down.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Time to leave

    Enacting Big Brother, supporting tax evasion, killing the NHS, privatising vital governmental services (no conflicts of interest, honest), trying to exit the EU (for all its ills, the EU is about the only thing keeping the Labtory duopoly in check)....certainly looking like time to leave the UK and move to an actual democracy.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Time to leave

      Go on then. I'm fed up of all these "I'm off" whingers, but yet they're still here. If it's that bad, go.

      I'll be writing to my MP, who I've met when he was going door-to-door prior to elections, and does seem to have a conscience. Doubt it'll do any good, but at least it's doing something positive.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Time to leave

        Doubt it'll do any good, but at least it's doing something positive.

        And while you're at it, the garden path could do with sweeping.

    2. Tromos

      Re: Time to leave

      ...an actual democracy.

      Sounds good. Where is it?

      1. breakfast Silver badge

        Re: Time to leave

        Serious question! Is there anyone keeping a list of awesome places to live? Like ones where the government isn't on a brisk dive towards Orwellian disaster?

        I have vague hopes that if they manage to drag us out of Europe the EU might offer some kind of asylum scheme to those of us who find more value in belonging to the EU than in belonging to England...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Time to leave

          The Pirate Party is the most popular group of politicians in Iceland right now.

          The beer is ruinously expensive though.

      2. TRT Silver badge

        Re: Time to leave

        Coming soon to a street near you... a demo.

        1. JohnMurray

          Re: Time to leave

          Really?

          About anything interesting?

          The turkeys just voted for Christmas, and you think they care enough to demonstrate?

          The Conservatives have total control [almost] of the press via their owners (TRTGAS) (Too Rich To Give A Shit), control of the few who insist on contrary points of view will come via "extremist views".

          The labour party is about to be de-funded, opposing views from charitable and social organisations has been neutered by the "gagging" law...union strikes are about to be ended by insisting on an over-40% vote (although we have a gov elected by either 24% or 34%, deciding on your viewpoint)

          An interesting 5 years is coming....although whether we have any future elections is another debating point!

      3. Bernard M. Orwell

        Re: Time to leave

        Iceland. New Zealand. Canada.

        All seem like reasonable candidates.

        1. Afernie

          Re: Time to leave

          Iceland sure, Two of the 'Five Eyes'? No thanks.

        2. Roger Kynaston

          Re: Time to leave

          Stephen Harper in Canada is a bit Bliar/Camoron. good country though.

          1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

            Re: Time to leave

            Canada would spy on you - but the government doesn't have any computers so they can't

        3. mpreda

          Re: Time to leave

          No Bernard, Canada is not a suitable candidate for you to escape a tyrannical gov of your own.

          We are in bed with the US and our liberties are being taken away at a faster rate then ever before.

          We pretty much live in a conservative, police state where the gov pushes anti terror bills like the US Patriot act, police officers are allowed to shoot people in the streets with no consequences, etc, etc, etc.

          1. Bernard M. Orwell

            Re: Time to leave

            *crosses off Canada and New Zealand*

            *studies list*

            *Googles winter clothing....*

        4. Alan Brown Silver badge

          Re: Time to leave

          If you think New Zealand is clean, you haven't been following things much.

          The NHS stuff that Cameron's trying to bang through here was tried under the tory-equivalent National party in the 1990s. When public hopsitals end up siccing debt collectors on people because of mandatory charges when they're ill, your public health system is in a bad state.

          Apart from that, look at http://www.laudafinem.com/ and http://e2nz.org/ - kiwiland has more problems than the UK does and a wilfully clueless population who prefer to believe "none of that stuff can happen here"

      4. Mark 85

        Re: Time to leave

        ...an actual democracy.

        Sounds good. Where is it?

        Well... it's not in States. That's for damn sure... I was hoping you guys were hiding it.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Time to leave

      Will you Labour supporters stop claiming the Tories are trying to kill the NHS?

      They've been in power for about 40 years since the NHS was founded. If they intend to kill the NHS, they're taking their time about it.

      The only health minister to ever privatise an NHS hospital was Andy Burnham ( Labour ). Well done that man, except when he started lying about it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Time to leave

        "Will you Labour supporters stop claiming the Tories are trying to kill the NHS?"

        I am not a Labour supporter. Labour will also murder the the NHS because they are in the thrall of the same paymasters. Labour and Tory are the same. Hence "Labtory".

      2. streaky

        Re: Time to leave

        If they intend to kill the NHS, they're taking their time about it.

        They were taking their time, all pretence has long since passed. Not for nothing but every time they've been in government previously they've all but completely choked off enough funding so it can't run effectively - ostensibly so people would demand some "new" (see: old/bad) system to replace it and they can sell the bits off it to their mates at massive discounts on the true value. Not that I'd ever suggest the Tories are corrupt like they work for FIFA or something but they have a pretty substantial track record of doing this with taxpayer owned assets.

    4. chris121254

      Re: Time to leave

      dont leave! fight for your freedoms! also there are no actual democracys left in this world!

    5. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
      Facepalm

      Re: Time to leave

      > Enacting Big Brother, supporting tax evasion,

      Yah no, your worldview is at loggerheads with itself.

      UNLEFTIFY YOURSELF!!

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Time to leave

      I hear Venezuela is a socialist paradise.

      They may have ran out of toilet roll a couple of years ago because of their price controls, but hey! It's socialism.

    7. Someone Else Silver badge

      @AC -- Re: Time to leave

      [...] certainly looking like time to leave the UK and move to an actual democracy.

      Please share with the class the name of such a place when (if) you find it....

  3. Sproing

    sigh

    Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty, and eternal surveillance and control is the price of ... err, hold on, freedom? They keep using that word. I do not think it means what they think it means.

    But it's only for terrorists and paedophiles, so good, honest, upstanding folks like us have nothing to worry about. I'm actually surprised they haven't arrested them all already, given that they obviously know who they are, i.e. not us. Obviously.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Stop

      Re: sigh

      When they say "freedom", they mean their freedom of action.

  4. PleebSmash
    Big Brother

    that's a nice hat

    She got to keep her hat and head since Brits can't be arsed to overthrow the monarchy.

    Now your beloved ruler gets made to regurgitate phrases such as "social cohesion" and "tackling extremism" as David "I'm a real human" Cameron fondles your collective privates.

    Feels bad Clegg :/

    1. dogged

      Re: that's a nice hat

      You don't get the blame the Queen for the nightmare we keep electing (the colour of tie changes but that's about all).

    2. JonP

      Re: that's a nice hat

      We did overthrow the monarchy, then it all went to crap so we got them back. Basically you can't win.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They used to say 'better dead than red'. Now it seems they've adopted everything the reds could ever have dreamed of, under the new mantra of better safe than sorry.

    Ah, what a brave new world.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I'm glad that Reporters Sans Frontiers classifies the UK as an enemy of the Internet.

  7. Vimes

    Provide for appropriate oversight and safeguard arrangements

    Appropriate by whose definition? Those that actively seek to avoid any such oversight?

    Don't forget that until recently the government was repeating the guff about GCHQ's activities being legal, and when it was found to be illegal they simply changed the law. These are the people we're relying upon to define 'appropriate'.

    1. phuzz Silver badge
      Facepalm

      They didn't change the law, what they said was 'It was illegal before because the population didn't know about it, but now they do (because of Snowdon) it's fine'.

      So as long as you're fully aware of how much the government is spying on you, then it's legal, and if you don't know, then it's illegal, but they're going to do it anyway.

      1. Vimes

        @phuzz

        'It was illegal before because the population didn't know about it, but now they do (because of Snowdon) it's fine'.

        Not quite.

        http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/15/case_against_gchq_scrambled_by_under_the_radar_legislation/

  8. Graham Marsden
    Big Brother

    "close a capability gap"

    Oh, what a *lovely* expression! Sounds meaningful, but is actually complete BS.

    What is this "gap"? The gap between being able to monitor *some* communications and being able to monitor *all* communications? The one between having the ability to track a few people and all the people?

    Or maybe it's the gap between our Civil Liberties and their idea of a Total Surveillance State?

    About the only good news is that they've kicked their stupid plans to repeal the Human Rights Act into the long grass because they finally realised they weren't going to be able to rush that one through (but, as this shows, that doesn't mean they won't try to sneak it through in a couple of years...)

    1. Vimes

      Re: "close a capability gap"

      Unless the Good Friday Agreement is rewritten and the status of devolution revisited for Wales and Scotland then they'll never be able to put a bill of rights into place.

      Thank God.

      For that matter, how can the Data Retention Directive be unacceptably broad at the EU level, but something like the Snoopers Charter can exist at the national level?

    2. TRT Silver badge

      "capability gap"

      Ah yes, that well known architect that designs bridges. His ancestor used to do gardens you know.

      1. Vimes

        Re: "capability gap"

        For some reason I can't get the name 'Bloody Stupid Johnson' out of my mind right now...

        (for those of you that don't read Discworld books, see the following link: http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Bergholt_Stuttley_Johnson)

        1. Teiwaz
          Unhappy

          Re: "capability gap"

          I was thinking the same thing. 'Capability Brown's reference has been totally replaced by 'Bloody Stupid Johnson's in my head.

          I went to the link, hoping to find out which of the ho ho, he he, ha ha refs were actually Terry's invention but the page is blank.

    3. streaky

      Re: "close a capability gap"

      The capability gap argument is bullshit you're right. The ability to monitor phone "metadata" as they say only exists because the data is held for billing purposes - once you create the data it's arguably fair game for law enforcement.

      The records of who people are emailing, and who and what they're tweeting and something something facebook both doesn't need to be held for billing and is encrypted anyway. This means to trawl through this data you actually need to do two wholly new things - have companies track/record packets and probably somewhere decrypt them.

      That's not a capability gap caused by technology, it's a capability gap caused by phone companies pretending we still use mechanically switched telephone networks and ripping everybody off.

      If they need to see somebody's comms they should have to require access on an individual basis like they're supposed to do with phone lines because that's the equivalent - they ARE looking at content, the "metadata" IS the content which is precisely why it's so useful if you're going on a fishing expedition. Also, it shouldn't be admissible in court like other wiretap evidence for the same reasons (it's actually not anyway, courts won't have it, but it should be made explicit in the primary law).

  9. Elmer Phud

    Measures will also be brought forward to promote social cohesion

    Too right it will.

    Most of the country is now getting interested in encryption VPN's.

    1. Google

      Re: Measures will also be brought forward to promote social cohesion

      Hate to break it to you, but No. Not even a significant chunk of the population is looking into encrypting their communications.

      What they are interested in though is Posh&Becks and Jordan. So maybe we should just rename the next cypher suite after them to rumble up some interest eh?

      In the mean time I'm trying to message my contacts via encrypted channels in case the day comes and I need it so it won't set off alarm bells. That and I quite like the idea of my messages only being read by the intended recipient.

      1. Rich 11

        Re: Measures will also be brought forward to promote social cohesion

        That and I quite like the idea of my messages only being read by the intended recipient.

        Ah, so you have something to hide!

        *cracks knuckles*

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Measures will also be brought forward to promote social cohesion

        Most of the people I know who have VPN's do it to fool netflix and iPlayer rather than anything to do with privacy.

        I won't connect to public wifi without mine now; just doesn't feel right.

        1. Christian Berger

          Re: Measures will also be brought forward to promote social cohesion

          "Most of the people I know who have VPN's do it to fool netflix and iPlayer rather than anything to do with privacy."

          That's because simple VPNs cannot provide you with privacy. There's still a simple 1:1 connection to you and if you pay even to your bank account. If you want privacy you use Tor.

          1. Sir Runcible Spoon

            Re: Measures will also be brought forward to promote social cohesion

            "That's because simple VPNs cannot provide you with privacy. <snip> If you want privacy you use Tor."

            I think you might be confused between privacy and anonymity.

      3. chris121254

        Re: Measures will also be brought forward to promote social cohesion

        "Not even a significant chunk of the population is looking into encrypting their communications"

        YES THERE IS wake up! or do you believe the propaganda?

      4. Stuart 22

        Re: Measures will also be brought forward to promote social cohesion

        "Hate to break it to you, but No. Not even a significant chunk of the population is looking into encrypting their communications."

        True, but there are a lot of us who are going to do it for them. All our websites & forums are going https (yes I know GCHQ can crack that but they but won't have the resources for routine mass surveillance). The majors have done it already.

        Which leaves mainly email - our mailservers are encrypted and out of the uk. So, I guess are the major mass providers (GMail, Outlook etc) at the other end. Again can be read if 'of interest' to the government. But more difficult to screen routinely.

        Which is what we want - for the rozzers to concentrate on real suspects, not go fishing around non-suspects.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Measures will also be brought forward to promote social cohesion

      'Measures will also be brought forward to promote social cohesion'

      Whether you like it or not.

    3. martinusher Silver badge

      Re: Measures will also be brought forward to promote social cohesion

      ...to promote social cohesion.....(or else.....)

      Social cohesion is desirable but by bringing that concept into a legal framework you bring into being its evil twin -- if you're not into 'social cohesion' then you're are by definition a 'social deviant', a threat to the order and safety of 'society' (or to use oldspeak, "The Reich"). (Yes, folks, we've been down this particular road before.....but obviously it couldn't happen here, could it?) To add a further twist to this notice that the concept of social cohesion generally means 'people who agree with me and share my values'. This is a fluid concept. It will probably be bad enough in the hands of Ms May and cohorts but just imagine what would happen if you had an even more sociopathic bunch of politicians in possession of her toolkit.

      This could get seriously nasty.

  10. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Gimp

    Another new governemnt, the same plan from the same entrenched cabal.

    Data fetishists.

    Their like f**king cockroaches.

    My guess is that if less than 20 people had all their personal business spattered all over the media (the personal business they are so keen to collect on every one else) this would be dead for a decade.

    Given that I think it's quite likely several of them would be liable for criminal prosecution as well.

    Expect the usual "Nothing to hide, nothing to fear" BS real soon now.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Superb timing

    Bringing in new powers to undermine our right to privacy whilst simultaneously disentangling us from that pesky European Human Rights legislation.

    I sincerely hope these bastards fail.

    1. JohnMurray

      Re: Superb timing

      We are still a signatory to the EHRC, even if, (after the gov dump the law) as individuals, we are no longer allowed the same rights as the other signatories.

      The Human Rights Act is not really a human rights act, since there is nothing at all to stop any government just dumping it. Now, if it was entrenched into law, and couldn't be dumped by any government without a referendum (preferably one needing a more-than-40% turnout.......

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    On a side note

    The government promises that anyone earning minimum wage and doing 30 hours a week will pay no tax.

    Now call me stupid but,

    30 * 6.70 * 52 = 10,452 (As of 1/10)

    Tax Threshold = 10,600

    So anyone currently working the full 52 weeks a year isn't paying tax anyway.

    Do they really think people are that thick? Queen's Speech for working people my arse and don't get me started on the snoopers charter, that's the biggest festering pile of bullshit I've ever seen.

    1. Lyndon Hills 1

      Re: On a side note

      Do they really think people are that thick?

      More or less, yes, or at least lazy.

      It makes a good headline, and they know most people won't bother to work out if this is already the case, or not.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: On a side note

      Yes people are that thick, how the fuck do you think Dave got elected!!!

    3. JohnMurray

      Re: On a side note

      "Do they really think people are that thick? "

      Yes.

  13. Bernard M. Orwell

    An appropriate quote...

    ""Fear and grievance have won, liberalism has lost. But it is more precious than ever and we must keep fighting for it." ~ Nick Clegg.

    1. Vimes

      Re: An appropriate quote...

      This is the same man that supported DRIPA when the Data Retention Directive was thrown out in court.

      So much for fighting for liberties. He actively helped sacrifice them to help protect his precious coalition.

      1. veti Silver badge

        Re: An appropriate quote...

        Yeah, I know Nick Clegg is currently about as popular as a fart in an elevator, but he's the one who scotched this nonsense back in 2012.

        Then came the media frenzy of "Lib Dems have rolled over for the Tories on everything, boot 'em out". So now here we are.

        Me, I never supported the Lib Dems because of some gibberish about tuitiion fees. I was for their stance on civil liberties. But it seems that's a vanishingly small minority stance, and so it's being appropriately steamrolled.

        1. Vimes

          Re: An appropriate quote...

          but he's the one who scotched this nonsense back in 2012

          Except that there are suggestions that opposition also originated from within the tory party itself, so he can't even claim that he was responsible for that.

  14. Bernard M. Orwell

    FTFY

    "Measures will also be brought forward to promote social cohesion"

    Conform.

    1. captain veg Silver badge

      Re: FTFY

      Too bloody right.

      There is something fundamentally wrong with the entire concept of "tackling extremism". What happens to the definition of "extreme" once you have eliminated those currently considered to be in that category? Do you keep on redefining it until there is just one immaculately moderate person left standing?

      -A.

  15. Dan 55 Silver badge

    She should have provoked a constitutional crisis just for shits and giggles

    "My government has expressed the will that it would like to snoop on everybody's communications like the then East German Stasi, I am completely against such a measure and will use every means at my disposal to stop this coming to pass."

    In theory Liz has got significant powers and is more than just a puppet with Cameron's hand up the Royal Posterior.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: She should have provoked a constitutional crisis just for shits and giggles

      I think you forget that before Dave got in (2010), he did a deal with royalty (kept very hush hush), so that they get £235M from renting the seabed for windmills (yes, that goes onto our power bills).

      In return they reduced the welfare benefit they get directly by about £10m.

      So he gave up £235M for £10M.

      So expecting them to even give a shit is a bit much, they fucking love him (he's a relation too, something cousin)

      (figures not precise as I'm lazy, find the true ones if you can be arsed and can find em, remember it was very hush hush!)

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    Cohesion

    The best way to bring a society together is with a common goal.

    Wonder if the protests over these new laws count?

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I wonder if Labour will support or oppose this bill - or indeed if they will have got their act together in time to decide one way or the other.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      My money's on support.

      Given they tried several times to push the same bollocks through.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      All of the Labour leader candidates that have come forward are very much New Labour, so you can bet authoritarianism runs in their veins - Cooper has hardly said a word about mass surveillance and went along with DRIP and Burnham was once in charge of the ID card project. The others sound like they're auditioning for Conservative party political broadcasts.

      They'll enthusiastically vote for the proposals so that they can't be tarred as being 'soft on crime'. I suspect these proposals will pass with a couple of fig leaf amendments with massive majorities. And then we'll see another toothless incarnation of the Parliamentary committees set up to protect our freedoms that they've merrily put through a shredder.

  18. Zog_but_not_the_first
    Big Brother

    Who?

    Is behind all this?

    Just asking.

    1. Vimes

      Re: Who?

      Mainly civil servants I assume. People like Charles Farr who survived the transition from a Labour to Tory government.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Is it a school holiday or something? Lots of anti-tory sentiment here.

    1. Vimes

      anti-snooping != anti-tory.

      A fair few of us - myself included - would be against this regardless of who proposes it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I'm against snooping too, but there is anti-tory sentiment besides them having another run at Labours equivalent of the SC.

    2. MrXavia
      Big Brother

      Pro-Privacy not Anti-Tory...

      Until we hear details, its hard to say whether it is Snoopers Charter again...

      BUT I can't see any form of mass surveillance being compatible with the Human Rights Act (which is probably why they want to abolish it!!)

    3. Gavin McMenemy

      A significant portion of tories should be completely against this.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I'm a tory and I'm against this. I'm a fan of David Davies - I hope he ( or another libertarian ) becomes Tory leader in 2020.

        My complaint was about non-snooping-related anti-tory nonsense.

  20. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge

    Safety

    Provide the police and intelligence agencies with the tools to keep you and your family safe.

    By doing what they say, when they say it? My family is safe enough without this "feature" thankyouverymuch. No amount of snooping on everyone's comms is going to improve that.

    Intelligence agencies have already proven they can't (or won't...) act on the information they do have. For fuck's sake don't give them more.

  21. chris121254

    everyone! help us fight this by joining the Open Rights Group!

    https://www.openrightsgroup.org/

  22. Eponymous Cowherd
    Unhappy

    Tools

    Here's a question to pose to Ms May should any of you be (un)lucky enough to meet her.

    "Give me one, just one, scenario where the proposed measures could prevent a terrorist atrocity"?

    As hard as I try, I cannot think of a single one. I can imagine how they might be used to bring accomplices to justice after an attack, but not to actually "keep us safe".

    Add to that the fact that in every recent atrocity, the perpetrators were known to the authorities but couldn't be adequately monitored, despite being known risks, because of the lack of resources.

    How they hell do they intend to "keeps us safe" from an unknown threat embedded in a humongous database of snoop data when they cant even protect us from the nutters they know about? Would it not be better to spend the money intended for this white elephant on some real human resources?

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Tools

      And here's another:

      "If you think you've nothing to hide what are your internet banking logon credentials?"

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Time to start using a VPN...

    This news finally tipped me over the edge into subbing to a VPN service (CyberGhost) - got a nifty 50% off too :) Shouldn't be necessary though - to quote Farnsworth: "I don't want to live on this planet any more!"

  24. Someone Else Silver badge
    WTF?

    Who knew the Queen played Buzzword Bingo?

    Measures will also be brought forward to promote social cohesion and protect people by tackling extremism.

    New legislation will modernise the law on communications data, improve the law on policing and criminal justice.

    Et tu Yer Majesty? Geez, all I need is "Synergy", and I have Bingo on two cards!

    1. A Non 1

      Re: Who knew the Queen played Buzzword Bingo?

      A more accurate term would be; Bullsh*t Bingo!

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ah, so you have something to hide!

    Not necessarily. I use VPN's, encryption in transit and at rest, changing MAC addresses, and outright lying by software concerning meta-data (referrer, OS, user-agent, fonts, ...). Just to give them a bit of a challenge, not too much. It's not that long ago I used to fix their gear when they couldn't, so I've a bit of a clue about these things.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    'Provide the police and intelligence agencies with the tools to keep you and your family safe.'

    Oh well thats' good. I feel much safer now.

    (Joke alert, just to make sure no-one misses the heavy sarcasm).

  27. amanfromMars 1 Silver badge

    They don't like it up them ..... so now you know what to do?

    The Snoopers' Charter certainly does at least one thing extremely well. It identifies practically all of those individuals worthy of further personal extreme attention, in both Parliamentary seats and much further beyond, just as this lost and confused soul found out to his reported consternation and public annoyance ........ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11634479/Douglas-Carswell-accosted-by-protestors-chanting-racist.html

    Intellectually challenged and with a learning disability in elected ruling classes is a recipe for mounting disaster and ab fab fabless chaos/madness and mayhem. And who would argue that it is not well deserved and highly appropriate an APT ACT.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Why the fuss?

    Why is everyone getting so worked up? It is not like the UK will be only country to impose restrictions on encryption. We will simply joining the great 'democracies', such as China, North Korea, and Iran.

    All in seriousness, why the fuss?

    Ban encryption? How?

    Ban the use of Tor? People will simply run the application from a hidden volume on a Veracrypt encrypted USB drive (or memory card).

    How is the government going to know you are using Tor? Packet-sniffing/DPI? I suspect Cameroon & May have never heard of obsf4.

    Compulsory Key escrow for UK encrypted servers? What about servers abroad?

    If the encryption on hotmail.co.UK, or gmail.co.UK is no longer safe. The answer is protonmail.CH.

    How the hell do you ban an open-source app?

    If a bill is written & phrased to prohibit certain technologies, I will bet the shirt on my back, that; -

    By the time any Bill has gone through the Green Paper, & White Paper stages; voted upon in the Commons & Lords; Received Royal Ascent - There will be at least half-a-dozen mature open-source technologies which will provide at least the same, or more likely, better privacy, but will work in a way to skirt any law.

    The British Government will lose any 'encryption war', even before minister have even fired the first shot.

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