Good/phew. Whilst they're far from perfect, as an o2 customer I was worried that BT would drag their above average customer service down to their appalling level. At least with EE it couldn't get any worse.
BT to gobble EE for £12.5bn – BTEE phone home
BT is in talks to acquire EE for £12.5bn. BT had been eying up taking O2 from Telefonica. The former national telco said on Monday that it expects "significant synergies" from absorbing EE, mainly through cuts "network and IT rationalisation, back-office consolidation and savings on procurement, marketing and sales costs". BT …
COMMENTS
-
-
Tuesday 16th December 2014 09:55 GMT Anonymous Coward
what everyone is lying about is "privacy" in GSM communications!
According to this interesting page, in Norwegian but with nice videos, suspicious Aftenposten journalists took fifty thousand readings using a specially modified GSM mobile phone.
They were shocked to discover around one hundred and twenty-two incidents/anomalies consistent with many highly active, even dual-band, completely genuinely FAKE GSM base-stations in Norway!
People targeted included PM, MoD, Central Bank, parliament, Embassies, major businesses... potentially anyone with a GSM in Oslo; a spokesman from PST (Norway's MI5), Arne Christian Haugstøyl, came out with "we warn persons ... against discussing sensitive matters on the mobile phone"
I'd say that all of the no-doubt similarly illegal GSM systems in UK will be off for a few days, whilst this storm blows-over, unless the Daily-Mail picks up on it. Aftenposten couldn't get any comment from their BT equivalent. Is it a good time to invest in EE? - well maybe if A5/3 gets a roll-out in UK, (that would be a stop-gap solution to have a partially secure algo whilst GSM is buried and the spectrum refarmed for 900MHz LTE)
English translation (without the really nice pics & videos) is at http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Secret-surveillance-of-Norways-leaders-detected-7825278.html
-
Tuesday 16th December 2014 12:33 GMT Dave K
Agreed. I despise BT ever since being ripped off by them a few years back and I really was not looking forward to having to jump network from O2 if they were bought by BT (seeing as they're one of the only networks that provides a signal where I live). To all EE customers, you have my sympathy...
-
Tuesday 16th December 2014 14:06 GMT breakfast
Everything Everywhere except signal in my phone
Thanks, but after hearing about this I won't be staying an EE customer for long. I would hope that this will be enough to push everyone else on the network out of their phone inertia too- the only reason I can imagine that anybody stays. I have been a BT customer and I will not be one again.
-
Tuesday 16th December 2014 14:58 GMT chr0m4t1c
Re: Everything Everywhere except signal in my phone
>Thanks, but after hearing about this I won't be staying an EE customer for long
Are you not going to even wait to see if the deal gets done?
That said, I'm an EE customer and I do not wish to do business with BT either. Personally, I'll probably stay with EE until they try to sell me BT line.
The real problem for me is that we're gradually reaching a point where I don't want to do business with any of the companies offering services that I need because of the buy-ups, so I may end up just having to lump it.
-
-
-
-
Monday 15th December 2014 20:01 GMT Anonymous Coward
" A near monopoly broadband/landlind provider in the UK, will own a major mobile provider."
If OFCOM were competent they'd require the new BT to demerge Openreach. Shareholders would still own both operations, so no loss to them, and they could elect to keep or sell either BT's service business or the Openreach monopoly according to their investment objectives.
Unfortunately we all know OFCOM couldn't find their own arse with both hands. FFS, they don't even require BT to have separate statutory accounts for Openreach, which is virtually unheard of in regulating asset based businesses.
So expect this deal to be rubber stamped.
-
Monday 15th December 2014 23:37 GMT Annihilator
" A near monopoly broadband/landlind provider in the UK, will own a major mobile provider."
Ah, takes me back to the late 80's when all you could see round here were BT landlines and subsequently BT Cellnet masts...
Remember when we owned that company? But then the powers-that-be decided that privatising would give us cheaper prices, and subsequently opened the industry up to multiple players when they realised that wasn't working.
Good to see that we're gradually regressing back to being spanked by one big company (it'll be cheaper cos of the synergies I'm told). That we used to own.
-
-
-
Tuesday 16th December 2014 17:28 GMT Annihilator
Re: @annihilator
"Plus the £22.5bn raised from 3G auctions that wouldn't have happened had we had a single state owned operator. And the many billions gained from the sale of BT. And the corporation tax from its profits."
The money "raised" from the 3G auctions though - who do you think paid for it (and the effort required to run the sale)? You - the consumer. All you've done is be taxed in a massively inefficient way, allowing a portion of that to be carved off to private equity funds.
As for the corporation tax on its profits - you realise that we'd still have that plus the actual profits?
It's like the people who were very excited to purchase shares in the Royal Mail's IPO and get very excited that they now own part of it. They always owned it, but are somehow pleased to be able to pay for something they already owned.
I'm not a complete communist though, I'm well aware that the broadband market we have now has driven faster speeds and that BT would probably still be doing 512Kbps broadband if it weren't for LLU and competition, but let's not get excited about us going back to single companies and expecting that we'll benefit from it.
-
Wednesday 17th December 2014 11:51 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: BT would probably still be doing 512Kbps broadband
"BT would probably still be doing 512Kbps broadband if it weren't for LLU and competition"
BTwholesale and BT Retail and indeed BT Openreach might well still be in the dark ages, but if you look into who's behind the last few sets of standards that allow repurposing of telephone wires intended for voice decades ago, to now permit speeds unimaginable even fifteen years ago, among the various contributors are folk from BT R+D (as was) in Martlesham. It has another name now, the name is irrelevant, but what they do there is not so irrelevant.
The rest of your post makes perfect sense.
-
-
-
-
-
Tuesday 16th December 2014 14:04 GMT Anonymous Coward
"Remember when we owned that company? But then the powers-that-be decided that privatising would give us cheaper prices, and subsequently opened the industry up to multiple players when they realised that wasn't working."
I think you've introduced an extra step there. Competition was introduced alongside privatisation - first with Mercury (owned by C&W, also a privatised former goverment monopoly) and then other operators applied for licences. Later, the license requirements were eased and now anyone can set up a telco.
TPTB were right about one thing though - prices are far cheaper than they were and amongst the lowest in Europe. That's one of the reasons for takeovers and mergers and all that stuff - owners are trying to get out because low prices means there's not much profit in UK telecoms - notice that there's not so much eagerness to sell mobile operators elsewhere in Europe.
-
-
-
-
Monday 15th December 2014 20:07 GMT Anonymous Coward
"I don't want "synergies","
Then you're in luck, because there won't be any, and the actual impact is that BT have to recover more costs.
All those deal fees, legal costs, restructuring costs, and a particularly big and fat acquisition premium are going to create a huge slug of "goodwill" on the balance sheet that needs to be amortised away. The only way that will happen will be either for BT to take lower profits on EE than the current owners (which isn't going to happen), or for BT to increase the average revenue per user and the average margin per user to EE customers. That's what happened every time the UK cable companies got traded.
The BT fat cats can dress it up all they want, but there's a harsh reality to this sort of deal: Customer's get screwed while The City enjoy big bonuses.
-
-
-
-
-
Tuesday 16th December 2014 11:33 GMT Zog_but_not_the_first
Re: Markets! Competition! Prices driven down! The customer wins!
Yes, production is indeed up but only according to the "official statistics".
Actually, I think market competition is a good thing, but that isn't what we have (apart from small businesses). Cutting costs, increasing efficiency and being competitive are all-too-often rallying cries used to worsen the conditions of employees while corporations seek monopoly or near-monopoly status through acquisition etc.
There was an interesting talk on TED a while back where someone had used network analysis techniques to investigate patterns of ownership based on published company reports. I think the conclusion was that half a dozen bodies own just about everything.
-
-
-
Monday 15th December 2014 22:36 GMT Derek Kingscote
DT to take over BT
Can't see HMG allowing that. All GCHQ/home office/government/Army-Navy Air Force traffic delivered over a network owned by a foreign power; I don't think so!
Will GCHQ/Home Office/HMG be able to perform anonymous surveillance if DT are in control?
However with TTIP, who knows who will own what.
-
Tuesday 16th December 2014 09:30 GMT Stuart Castle
Re: DT to take over BT
Can't see HMG allowing that. All GCHQ/home office/government/Army-Navy Air Force traffic delivered over a network owned by a foreign power; I don't think so!"
They don't seem that bothered that BT is using a lot of hardware designed and built by Huawei, A company suspected of spying for the Chinese.
-
Tuesday 16th December 2014 11:12 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: DT to take over BT
"Can't see HMG allowing that. All GCHQ/home office/government/Army-Navy Air Force traffic delivered over a network owned by a foreign power; I don't think so!"
They don't seem that bothered that BT is using a lot of hardware designed and built by Huawei, A company suspected of spying for the Chinese."
I doubt that sensitive government or military traffic rides the public networks unless there's some form of hiding in plain sight going on.
-
-
-
-
Monday 15th December 2014 20:11 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Oh shit
Yeah. I was getting ready to switch from Sky to EE. Anyone but BT! Previously I was going to go back to Be, being unaware that Sky had bought them.
I believe that will mean there will be only Sky and BT serving this area now. I.e Sky, BT, PlusNet, EE. I don't recall seeing Be as an ISP for here last time I looked, though it had been for several years. This is rapidly becoming an appalling situation.
Yes, just checked. There's also TalkTalk. What a fucking joke.
-
Tuesday 16th December 2014 10:38 GMT Philippe
Re: Oh shit
Actually Sky hasn't bought Be. O2 kept it when they sold their customer broadband network to Sky. (Actually they sold the customer as the network was BTs).
Since then, O2 has been heavily investing in boosting this network in the background before relaunching a fibre broadband service.
It will be business only at first but eventually, we never know.
-
-
-
Monday 15th December 2014 18:38 GMT Steveir
Phew...sort of
I was with O2 when they were bt cellnet, they were ok but much better as O2.
The only problem now is that 3 have said they would go after the network that bt didn't go for. I had the misfortune to have a 3 phone a few years back and my experience wasnt good...hopefully they'll forget about it
-
-
-
Monday 15th December 2014 19:57 GMT wolfetone
Re: Phew...sort of
I had an O2 phone years ago and only cancelled it to get a new BlackBerry on Vodafone (which were cheaper). That was the only reason, I always thought O2 were good.
Roll on to now, I'm on EE after having a 2 year awful marriage to 3. EE, for the most part, aren't too bad. I haven't had an issue with them. Saying that I don't think much of their online offering, I can never log in to my account to check my usage.
If BT do end up buying EE (which I think they will), then I'd have been more likely to go to O2. But if 3 are going to buy O2, then my next choice of operator will be limited - which I'm sure Ofcom is supposed to prevent?
-
Tuesday 16th December 2014 12:29 GMT Robert E A Harvey
Re: Phew...sort of
It's coverage that affects me.
I have tried 3 and Giffgaff in my ipad, and have O2 on my company phone and Virgin on my private one.
from O2/GiffGaff I get no coverage at all on the hills between Grantham and Stamford, and close to nothing in the middle of Spalding. Driving from Lincolnshire to Cheshire I got coverage only in Stoke on Trent, and scrappily in Crewe. I could not even make a phone call on the Derby ring road.
Meanwhile the 3 and Virgin systems were at 5 bars for all of those examples.
-
-
-
-
Monday 15th December 2014 20:03 GMT Aqua Marina
Short version
So the short version of this article.
BT, which used to own Cellnet, was considering re-buying Cellnet (now branded as O2)
Hutchinson, which used to own Orange, was considering around re-buying Orange (now branded as EE)
BT changed their minds and are now buying Orange.
I suppose the shorter version of that is.
Hutchison Sell Orange, BT buy it.
-
Monday 15th December 2014 20:05 GMT Marc 13
BT - the new largest player in 3 markets
So BT will be:
34% of Fixed line Internet (next biggest: Virgin 205)
37+% of Fixed line telecoms (Plus EE's share) (next largest: Virgin 12%)
33% of Mobile comms (EE's share) (Next largest VF/O2 @ 26% each)
So BT is now dominant in all three markets... and we know how well they play with others when in dominance!
media.ofcom.org.uk
s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-CF126_vodblo_G_20140403100734.jpg
-
Monday 15th December 2014 20:14 GMT Tezfair
no wonder our BT bills keep going up
I have been looking to jump from EE business as the service (signal) has been getting worse over the last year or so, whereas 3 has been getting better (son on 3 PAYG). I may hold off incase there's any perks, otherwise i'm off to 3.
For the avoidance of argument, O2 and vodaphone signals don't come here, I have to walk up the road to get their signals.
-
Tuesday 16th December 2014 00:51 GMT Anonymous Coward
If BT hadn't taken so many pension" holidays" then perhaps they would still have Cellnet, which was a good service. I was with Cellnet which then became O2 & I have to say the service has been good but the cracks are beginning to show now. I had an email from them to say they were updating their network, didn't take a lot of notice because I just use my phone for calls. I wonder if BT will close one or more of the Indian call centres. Used to be with Orange BB, horrendous cost me a fortune in phone calls. Had to report something lost last week, spoke to Michelle, well that's what she said her name was, took me twice as long but Murdoch won't mind because the telephone is with Sky because I'm sorry to say O2 sold us down the river. Why is it that we the customers are always on the losing end?
-
Tuesday 16th December 2014 09:15 GMT ARGO
Pension payment holidays
>If BT hadn't taken so many pension" holidays" then perhaps they would still have Cellnet
Or perhaps not. At that time the company stopping contributions was a legal requirement if the pension fund was more than a certain percentage in surplus. No corporation tax revenue on pension contributions you see...
For all I know that law still stands, but it's kind of irrelevant given the state of final salary funds these days.
Of course that state is partly due to the pension holidays, but more of it is down to a certain Mr G Brown's cunning plan to abolish dividend tax relief - again, a great idea to gather more tax revenue today at the expense of tomorrow's pension funds.
-
Tuesday 16th December 2014 12:58 GMT Anonymous Coward
Re: Pension payment holidays
The man generally in charge of the CBI-inspired pension holidays was Adair Turner.
Look him up. After leaving Chase Manhattan and then McKinsey he was Director of the CBI for a while, and it was during his reign that pension holidays for company pension schemes became fashionable (regardless of whether the fund had a 'surplus' or not).
In 2002, Turner chaired the UK government's inquiry into pensions.
Where has Mr Turner been more recently?
In 2008, he was appointed Chairman of the Financial Services Authority, a role which included 'regulating' the pensions industry (amongst other things).
Would you buy a used car from this man?
-
-
-
Tuesday 16th December 2014 09:02 GMT Alex Bailey
Well that's just great news!
I hate dealing with BT... the fact that wherever I buy from then provide the backbone to my landline and fibre broadband service because I live in an area where there are no alternatives (unless I want to add a layer of complexity when things break). The fact BT insist on charging me extra because I refuse to pay by direct debit when they won't give me a chance to see my bill before they take my money if I do.
I switched my mobile service from Vodafone to EE in the spring to improve my 3G coverage and get a decent 4G service; I've always avoided O2 because of their past connections with BT and 3 just weren't cutting it in my area.
Now I have the displeasure that I will be giving more of my hard earned to BT for at least the remainder of my 2 year contract. After that?
Do not pass go. Do not collect £200.
-
Tuesday 16th December 2014 14:06 GMT FlossyThePig
Re: Well that's just great news!
"The fact BT insist on charging me extra because I refuse to pay by direct debit when they won't give me a chance to see my bill before they take my money if I do."
If you pay by DD the vendor must tell you in advance what they are going to take. I get emails from a number of companies telling me a few days in advance what they are going to charge.
http://www.directdebit.co.uk/DirectDebitExplained/Pages/DirectDebitGuarantee.aspx
-