Doctors back more tax on booze The British Medical Association has supported the suggestion that a hike in tax on booze could help combat the UK's binge-drinking culture. Earlier this week Professor Julian le Grand, the chairman of Health England, called for the price of alcohol to be raised as part of a raft of proposals aimed at tackling the problem. He …
Hey, everyone hates smokers now - why not start on people who have a drink? Right I have an idea:
1. Ban Smoking in pubs (done)
2. Ban drinking in pubs (in progress)
3. Ban food in pubs (claim it makes people fat)
4. Ban pubs
- I am really starting to get annoyed by this nanny state thing - next we'll have to be booking appointments to use roads....
More tax will achieve absolutely nothing other than to make the fat Jock even more smug
Addressing the basic problems (destruction of the family, selling the UK down the river, total open-door policies etc. etc.) which the liberal elite have spawned over the years but which they're just to dense and arrogant to see would be a much better move.
I have no more than 3 or 4 beers per week. I'm taxed to death by the fat Jock already.I do NOT wish to have even more stolen from the meagre remains of my salary just because Fatty is utterly incompetent at anything other than sticking his greasy mitt in other people's pockets.
Away with him & his ilk - then let's address the real problems!
If the government genuinely wanted to reduce deaths, they'd restrict alcohol consumption across the board - not merely raising the price so that people on low incomes couldn't afford it.
Raising the price (especially as the govt. has a vested interest, as they get to trouser the tax) is not the answer as it is a divisive process and discriminates against the social classes of voters who traditionally vote for the labour party.
Raising the price is also morally dubious, especially if the govt. acknowledge that some people are dependent on alcohol as it exploits their dependency to raise revenue - closer to the actions of drug pushers than a supposedly caring state.
The only fair way to reduce alcohol consumption across all social groups is to reduce access based on attributes other than price: age, rationing, times/days of sales, location of outlets would all work. The government could even admit they were wrong and bring back 10:30 closing times.
Funny how people blame 24 hour licensing hours but that's never where I've seen a problem.
The problem isn't people drinking moderately over a spread out period - it's people drinking heavily for a short time.
I don't drink or smoke, so for all I care ban the lot. But then we have seen how well prohibition (didn't) work....
The problem is nothing to do with open times. It's to do with a culture that somehow thinks it is a good thing to get so off your face you can't even remember what happened the next morning. Fix that and you will do far more good than the fascists we call a government restricting one more freedom.
Doctors can say that drinking excessive alcohol is bad. They're not qualified to say "Tax this" and "band that". Sorry but shut up. Don't get me wrong, I hate politicians more than the next person but they are better equipped and placed to make this call. Give them facts not opinions Doc.
that when the ban on smoking came, drinking would be next on the line for these twunts.
We're already seeing demand for health warnings on the labels of booze.
The response I got? drinking is too ingrained in our culture, they'll never get rid of it.
They tried before, and royally failed.. only difference now is that the weak citizenship of this country will willfully comply.
What happened to the old protesting that used to happen in this country? if this were happening in france they'd be torching cars by now!
is not a factor or is very very minor.
Drink driving - no limit, you drink NO drive, instant ban.
Warning labels on booze - good idea.
More social awareness, also good - advertising the dangers would be a good idea.
Increased Tax on Alcopops or similar a very very good idea since one of the reasons these were created was to get round duty.
Most important right now I would say is more controls on underage drinking - too many 12 year olds on the streets pissed. Increased fines for parents of underage drinkers and especially closing down for 24 hours any place that sells booze to someone under 18 - no ID no drink, everyone at age 18 has at least one form of decent ID ffs.
Taxing across the board is stupid though, this needs a measured targeted approach
And just how was that statistic derived? Dice? So, howcome in the rest of Europe where the taxes are much lower they don't have these problems?
It's a sad indictment of todays mainstream media that so called experts come up with such shockingly simplistic approaches to complex problems and can publish them as a serious suggestion.
"Doctors back more tax on booze"
I back more tax on Doctors. In fact a 10% increase in tax on Doctors would result in a 15% decrease in house prices over the next 5 years. It's true 'cause I just wrote it and it's now been published on tinternet! (which is all it takes these days for the UK media to swallow it).
Paris cause she's wearing them doctor-type specs.
Er, if the cost goes up, doesn't smuggling also go up? These people seem to think that we live in an isolated island and the cost of things in the EU has absolutely no effect.
Silly doctors. Your job is to fix us when we break, not to force us into a bland world, bound in yards of cotton wool.
Trouble with this is it's based on faulty logic.
Alcoholic drink prices are 20% higher now than in the 1980s even adjusting for inflation. Yet drinking has increased anyway.
The campaigners argue that we should take wealth into account. By saying we are wealthier and hence, even though it's more expensive, we can still afford it. However a bottle of wine is 3 quid, everyone can afford it. Making it 3.3 quid does not make it unaffordable.
If it cost 1.5 I would not drink 2 bottles instead of 1.
If it cost 6 quid, I would not drink half a bottle instead of 1.
Once we can afford the maximum amount of booze we can drink, it makes no difference how wealthy we are. Bill Gates cannot drink a million bottles of wine a day just because he can afford it.
So calculating an affordability index just to get a correlation between price and consumption is nonsense past the point at which people can afford it.
It's not the causal link, the causal link is bored people, stuck in their houses, with nothing to do but watch TV reality shows. I find UK mind numbing to visit. It's like everywhere is shut, you can shop till you drop until 8pm then at night the streets become a no go zone, with police everywhere and only youths desparate for casual sex prepared to go out and run the gauntlet of CCTV's police pubs and clubs.
I guess the BMA must be to doctors what NuLabour is to the rest of us, totally out of touch with those they purport to represent. Most of the doctors I've met had to be poured into their houses at the end of an evening and are probably even now dreaming up ways to stick their collective boots up the BMA's arses.
Just like so many tax-generating ideas, they do not specify the problem, only possible solutions of, of course, raising tax.
Whatever else they do, they know we'll pay the extra tax and the ill-defined problems will still be here.
drink-related deaths? Want to bet that's completely bogus? Is it drunk people falling into canals? Or drinkers from the 70s now with liver cancer? Which of these will be stopped by raising taxes?
Hooded chav drinkers? They're going to stop drinking because it's more expensive? The day it's too expensive for them is the day it's too expensive for all of us.
Health - so nice of the government to think my health when it raises taxes for them, or when they get to fritter them away... but you know we won't drink less and the ill-defined problems will remain.
The non-smokers really should have seen this coming... less tax from smokers means more tax from you. And to get tax from you they have to make *you* a pariah of society - you pesky social drinker with your sensible attitude!
I'm a Scot and I don't drink alcohol, I've never seen the need to (yes I still go to Pubs). But even I can see this proposed tax is unfair on responsible drinkers.
So why oh why isn't the government researching why young people want to drink so much and try to break their death wishes?
Ok, I know people think it's a culture thing, But seemingly young people having a lack of Empathy due to their brains getting rewritten and this leads to them performing behaviour that ignores their effect on others. Surely parents and the government can do some training or teaching that tries to readdress this inbalance?
Ban this, ban that, increase the cost of this and that etc etc ad nauseum.
If has got fuck all to do with the price of booze and all raising the price will do will be to make people a little more skint.
go to virtually any other country in the world and you will not find the same problems with drunken morons as we have here and yet in many of those countries the booze is cheaper (or at least on a par to ours given differences in overall cost of living).
The difference in these other countries is that the idiotic and loutish behaviour is not tolerated and the punishments are exactly that, punishments.
the alien cos most of these morons seem to live on another planet
2 points about this horseshit:
1. it's not the price, if a pint was £10 people would still get wasted because: they're so pissed off with life; sick of the asshole policies of the facist state; want to get 'more pissed' than their mates; actually enjoy it....
2. my girlfriend works for a major booze producer, we get it dead cheap and have cupboards full of the stuff - i don't drink a lot or get paraletic on weekdays/weekends because i can CONTROL MYSELF. i don't need bollox ideas/useless tax hikes from doctors/politicians who cannot sort the real problems out in the UK
3. maybe they need the cash to start more wars instead of listening to what the people of the UK actually want to see their taxes spent on
4. don't forget - the government get tax AND duty on booze, AND they tax a tanker of lager when it leaves the brewery AND when it's sold in a pint to you!
5. STOP TRYING TO CONTROL EVERY FOOKING THING WE DO you useless twats!!!!
6. that's 6 points, not 2
Cigarettes are bad for you: we're increasing the taxes further and demonising anyone who smokes.
Alcohol is bad for you: we're increasing the taxes further and demonising anyone who drinks.
Driving is bad for you: we're increasing fuel taxes and congestion charges further, and demonising anyone who drives.
Junk food is bad for you: we're going to increase the taxes further and we're already demonising anyone who eats a Snickers bar in public.
Next Week:
Disagreeing with Nu-Labour is bad for you: we're increasing taxes on having an opinion, and demonising anyone who objects.
wokka-wokka-wokka-Wokka-WOkka-WOKka-WOKKa-WOKKA-WOKKA
It's truly remarking and amazing how many problems we have that can solved by a tax hike.
Problem : Global Warming
Answer : Raise tax on fuel.
Problem : Smoking related disease.
Answer : Raise tax on tobacco.
Problem : Binge Drinking
Answer : Raise tax on alcohol
Weasel words strike again: the drinker botherers have LINKED more deaths to alcohol, that does't mean there's been any increase at all, they're just adding up the stats differently to get the answer they want.
Its seriously hard to believe a declining drinks market can support the claims and I simply cant accept claims binge drinking is worse now than it was in my youth 25 years ago. Teetotal prohibitionists might believe this bullshit, those of us who actually drink remember it differently.
Before we embarked on our glorious careers in IT, Medicine, Law, etc, my friends and I used to calculate which beverages had the best alcohol to money ratio to get us plastered. Once we started earning, our tastes became more sophisticated but the end result was still the same. If the price of booze goes up too much, we will just revert to the old formula.
Mine's the soiled raincoat with a half-empty bottle of Boss Super - Leeds' finest cheapest cider!
OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA!
We need change here too. The politicos are just going to offer us the same crappy choice of:
Conservatives: Money for rich people only
New Labour: Money for rich people and politicians and their friends/family
We need an IT literate, Non-corruptable, forward planning, INTELLIGENT party
Surely it is the duty of everyone here to put themselves forward for public duty in order to enact (or revoke) laws to achieve a harmonious synergy wihtin the nation..... In other words, somebody else do it for me, I can't be arsed.
This post has been deleted by its author
Why is it when something needs to be changed/discouraged they ALWAYS suggest the easy answer, Tax?
THIS WILL NOT WORK, are you listening? For a tax to prevent/discourage people buying stuff it HAS to be a whopper of an increase. I.E from £1.00 for a can of beer to say £5.00 a can. If it's too small peope will pay it, just look at fags, congestion charge etc, sure they'll complain but they do it anyway. Granted a minority will stop but the rest have no no such reservatrion about ploug
So you bunch of shortsighted, narrowminded, unimaginative little men get your fingers out of your noses and come up with a solution that doesn't involve tax.
Jerks!
Has no UK politician or doctor ever heard of Scandinavia? They've been trying this approach in Iceland, Finland Norway and so on for decades and have massive drinking problems. In fact it's worse, as you end up with poorer people brewing their own lethal potions out of all sorts of unhealthy dross.
Let's grow up a bit and look to the south of Europe for our answers rather than the north, as their approach demonstrably *has not worked*
Well seeing as all the major points have been covered like where the hell did they get those stats from (was it a poll of people who died from alcohol asking if their pint cost £2.20 instead of £2.00 would they still be alive?), the majority of europe is cheaper with younger/more relaxed drinking laws yet less of a problem, and what is this doctor fella doing?
Well there is one thing i'd like to add, people will continue to drink the same amount, they'll pay more. They'll just not buy fresh vegetables and go for the 2for1 frozen pizza, skip the gym membership and put off buying those new jeans. The price rise will leave people with less money for healthy living and stop people spending money elswhere in the economy.
Fire symbol because the mobs will be coming with torches for you doc
"Can someone explain why there is less of a binge drinking problem on the continent *despite* alcohol being considerably cheaper there than it is in the UK?"
because we have been done over by successive governments for too long, we drink oursleves to blissful forgetfulness.
Either that or face the reality of being TAXED as you earn money, TAXED as you spend it, TAXED if you save it. God forbid you have to buy fuel to get to you place of work, they TAX the TAX on that.
Is it any wonder why we drink?
lets open the pubs all day long and, whoops weve got a drink problem, never saw that one coming...
Just like, "lets build a big f**k off casino" to gasp in astonishment when gambling related problems rise.
Once again our government gets a D for dunce with a 'could do better' in red writing
Incidentally, teachers are not allowed to use red anymore because it causes stress to the little (knife wielding) darlings
"First they came for the smokers and I did not speak out because I was not a smoker
Then they came for the drinkers and I did not speak out because I was not a drinker
Then they came for the boring, self-righteous pricks and there was no one left to speak out for me"
i've just got back from asda, after doing the weekly shopping and in the wine aisle about 30% of the shelf space was empty, the bottles which used to sit thereon all having been 'reduced to clear' to half price and having been immediately snapped up - unfortunately before i got there, so i had to pay the full £2,85 for my bottle of hungarian merlot!
coincidental clearance of old stock, before bringing new lines in?... or are asda privvy to some secret forthcoming government annnouncement on the pricing or selling of booze in supermarkets, which has prompted them to urgently free up a substantial chunk of the shelf space they currently have devoted to booze?
no, not my nads...
1: Doctors can afford to spend more on their booze, so they won't have a problem backing a price hike.
2: 30,000 British people every year are killed through medical mistakes - making doctors more dangerous ... than smoking or walking in front of a lorry. (the spectator 19/01/08)
Prohibition failed before, yet we're trying it again - first in cracking down on smoking, then on fresh magic mushrooms (in Camden tea shops), next talk on taking a harder line on cannabis, now on alcohol. When will there be someone to rally behind voicing the opinion that enough is enough, we want our freedom to choose to do things?
I don't smoke, I rarely drink, but I want the right to choose. I'm not talking about mugging a granny for her penion - they're soft on that already. Ditch the fudged figures about the cost to the NHS etc (recent studies have already shown that healthy living people end up costing more anyway), ditch the unsubstantiated figures about deaths from passive smoking (I'm fine with properly justified ones, but most of the figures trotted out give no references), and recognise that people have a right to relax and unwind. If they chose to have a drink, a smoke or something else, then fine. If that causes them to go out and crash or pick a fight, then treat it as an aggravating factor then. But don't punish the innocent with ever more punitive taxes and draconian restrictions.
This seems to be one of the inevitable side-effects of big government. Once the state is seen to be the solution to everything, everyone and anyone becomes a lobbyist. Police cease to become mere enforcers of the state and start actively lobbying for more power. Doctors start believing that their job isn't just to repair our injuries but to change us so we don't get damaged in the first place. Environmentalism becomes less about the earth and more about the cause du jour, which typically turns out to be getting the filthy working classes off our roads and Spanish beaches. Even private enterprise gets increasingly addicted to the government teat, and when the government's message on the UK business environment is "We'll tax the bejeesus out of you, but if your business fails we'll give you a massive bailout and take you under our nationalised wing if even that doesn't help", you can hardly blame them.
With respect to Brian Miller above, the instinctive "we need better government" reaction merely illustrates how entrenched the nanny state has become in our consciousness. What we need is not better government, because there's no such damn thing as an efficient, intelligent organisation which has no incentive to be so. We need less government. We are way, way past the point where careful work with a scalpel is necessary - it's time to use an axe first, and consider stitching bits back on if they turned out to be genuinely necessary later.
I have a suggestion: all political party manifestos should consist of two numbers, that being how much they are going to reduce or increase the total budget and how many bureaucrats they are going to sack or hire. The ins and outs are a bit irrelevant at this point. But then again... I've just proposed a solution which would require a state body (the election authorities) to draw up new rules and hire more staff to enforce them. Even I can't get away from the 'something must be done' mentality. Paris Hilton because I think I need a clear out of my brain.
Further than suggesting cutting the limit of alcohol in blood from 80 to 50 per 100 I'd suggest cutting it to zero.
drink driving won't stop being a problem till everyone realises it's just not acceptable,
I know full well I could drive after only 1 drink, but the ambiguity is in my size build, tollerance to alcohol, speed at which it passes through my system, mow much I've had to eat, strength of the drink etc. etc. etc...
what should really happen is that they should cut the limit to zero.
nobody has an excuse anymore, if you've been drinking, just don't drive.
and those who get hammered and wake up thinking that they're fine have little excuse nowadays either since it's *well known* that alcohol stays in your body the day after too.
Why not do something to make the majority of the country HAPPIER...?
Despite being a depressant, most people drink alcohol because they're unhappy, stressed, bored, or otherwise pissed off with the way life's panning out (the same may be said for junk food, tobacco, drugs, and a myriad of other pleasures in life)
Generally speaking, there's no pleasure in the modern lifestyle; everything fun to do is expensive either due to excessive taxation or greedy monopolists making sufficient cash reserves that they could purchase a 3rd World country.
Kids roam the streets causing trouble because there's nothing to do and no authority left to tell them right from wrong (even the pitiful attempts are soon quashed by some smart arsed lawyer in the name of the almighty pound - justice? what's that got to do with it?). Adults roam the streets cos the pubs are all they've got and at closing time they have to go home (yes, closing time... 24 hour drinking hasn't had the widespread take-up, despite the media's condemnation).
The nation is pissed off, resigned to the fact that we work our butts off week in and week out, only for some great big hole in London (interpret this how you wish) to suck away vast proportions of hard earned money in tax to pay for layabouts, illegal immigrants, criminals and spongers, who all get a much better lot in this country despite doing sweet FA to contribute to its upkeep. Add to this that we are having more and more liberties removed, penalising the law-abiding citizen rather than the ne'er-do-wells in the name of safety.
Is it any wonder we drink to forget this existance? I set a counter-challenge back to the BMA, Gov, and anyone else in the country able to make a difference:
Make the nation happier! Put some joy back in our lives. Balance it out so all of us can work a reasonable amount of time for a reasonable amount of money. Give us things to do, rather than telling us what we can't do. Give the country a reason to stop getting rat-arsed, rather than just inflicting yet another financial penalty on the few "pleasures" left.
If doctors and others think that increasing tax on drink will stop boozing they should ask themselves why other countries with much lower taxes do not have the booze problem that the UK is alleged to have. Increasing taxes on fuel has not led to a reduction in driving. Quite simply excess boozing is a peculiar British habit - it's a cultural trait which young people learn from an early age. Changing culture takes a very long time and is a complex matter. It will not be effected by a quick and pointless fix.
Drinking-related deaths doubled since 1991...
The problem does not occur on the Continent / places where booze is cheaper...
I see it now! It's all Margaret Thatcher's administration's fault! You see, the current 18 years old yufs were born just as she was leaving, and grew up in what was left behind. Since correlation always shows causation, QED! Where's me Nobel?
Is this really a joke, I wonder?
I say we go further and we criminalize it. Finally a vice I don't have that is on the chopping block.
I pity the poor alcoholic binging fools, you drink I ... well something must be affecting me by your heinous activity, oh that is it, I have to pay more for your liver care.
Yeah, they have come for my ilk already and no one really stepped forward, I am not bitter just relishing the same hypocritical health issues being forced onto others, for the things they enjoy doing.
Next we go after chocolate, crisps, fizzy drinks, kiwi fruits, tennis and golf in no particular order.
Oh, and we stop the politicians smoking in the House, that would be a nice one, lest any of us forget that is the last indoor public place where it is still allowed.
I believe it was tried back in the last century in a North American country. Funny, it lasted on a couple of years (1920-1933) but thankfully was overtaken by common sense.
In the "energy crisis" there was also a 55 mph speed limit. That lasted about 20 years too.
Some people never learn!
I have for some time thought that this "government" is having a laugh at our expense.
They have steadily been introducing more and more ludicrously invasive legislation, and every time I think to myself,"they've gone too far this time", they get away with it !
There must be some kind of bet going on in the cabinet to see who can be the first to cause a public uprising. ID cards, DNA databases, banning legal activities, restricting free speech, blatant bribery and corruption within government - the list goes on and on.
We are constantly fed reports about how there is a looming pensions crisis, while at the same time we are being forced to live ever longer lives. The pensionable age is set to rise, but we don't have enough work for those under the current pension age. Maybe if the government were to spend less on focus groups and advertising and more on pensions, then there wouldn't be a crisis.
As regarding drinking, they should remember where the impetus comes from. How many TV soaps are based in or around pubs/bars ? Coronation Street, Eastenders, Emmerdale (Farm), Hollyoaks, Neighbours, Home and Away ....
What kind of lives do young people today aspire to lead ? Mostly pop stars or footballers. Errr, George Best, Paul Gascoine, Amy Winehouse, Britney Spears, etc etc.
The reason most younger people go out and get pissed up, is because, deep down inside they know they are never going to be rich or famous, and they have no reason to think they are going to enjoy life being anything else. The tv shouts at us to spend more, get more credit, HAVE IT NOW ! while all the time we produce less, become fatter and less intelligent and get taken advantage of by big business. Suicide rates are higher amongst younger people because they do not see themselves having a future.
Being forced to get into debt, to attend university, to gain a worthless degree, to end up on a production line on minimum wage is not most peoples idea of a rosy future. Even office work is low grade monkey stuff these days. This is how the government is reducing unemployment - make lots of bureaucratic paperwork, then employ overskilled monkeys to do it. These days you are a nobody unless you "own" your own home, drive a BMW, or at least a no more than 3 years old car, have the latest plasma tv and entertainment centre, and get out with your mates 4 times a week to piss it up.
Increasing expectations has backfired for this government, because not everybody can participate. Not everybody can be middle class with high incomes and comfortable lifestyles. Unfortunately for those on a lower scale, the modern media treats you as wasters and scroungers. Consequently no-one wants to do that kind of work, and we have to get foreign labour to fill the gaps, which we then complain about !
I make more as a lorry driver than most so called skilled office workers make, precisely because no-one wants to do the work. You get dirty, you work long hours, you are away from home a lot. But if I can make £10k a year more by doing that than by working 9 to 5 and commuting on blocked roads for 2 hours a day, then that's a win in my book. The commuting public, no matter what their pay scale, can accurately be described as rats. At certain times of the day, they scurry out, fill the roads with accidents and incivility, all intent on getting to their meaningless destinations before the person in front of them regardless of the cost in raised tempers and blood pressure. Then after an hour or so, it goes quiet again, until the madness starts anew at the end of the day.
I was brought up to believe that humans were more intelligent than animals, but watching this same sad scenario day after day just seems to disprove that.
Just for reference, I once worked in an office when I used to do "IT" for money. I had to leave in the end because the staff were so unbelievably lazy, compared to any manual worker you care to mention, that it gave me high blood pressure just to be in the same room as them. Their sense of entitlement was so artificially high compared to the actual results they achieved, that it was laughable.
And this government is creating more people like that.
Strangely, the term Fascism comes to mind here.
Basically, and in conclusion, we the people of the UK are living one huge lie both financially, and aspirationally. For what reason do most people drink heavily ?
To forget.
Please stop interfering with a good fantasy by throwing facts at it !! If the government says that increasing tax will reduce binge drinking, it must be true because they are the government and the government always knows best !!
Obviously the docs could not have studied history in school if they do not remember the lessons of the Great American Prohibition !!
Having travelled (and drank) around the world for over twenty years, we are the only country in Europe (if not the world) with this problem. I put it down to a reaction to our old draconian licensing laws. people still drink too much in too shorter time, they still haven't learnt to spread their drinking out over the whole evening. Putting up prices will not stop them drinking, they will just spend less on food or something else.
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