Is this another one of those made up stories? Is there a single named quote or is it another case of someone at Apple liking Star Wars and El Reg reporting that Apple is building a Death Star?
Apple legal threat to Steve Jobs doll deemed 'bogus'
It appears that Apple's threatened lawsuit against the Chinese manufacturer of a Steve Jobs action figure may be baseless. At least in the US. At least in most states. "Apple's legal claim is largely bogus," writes Jeff Roberts for the digital-content watchdog, paidContent.org. The interwebs were abuzz on Thursday about The …
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Saturday 7th January 2012 09:50 GMT David 45
Lawless
I always knew the Americans couldn't handle independence!
Seriously, folks. The other (even more life-like) "doll" was legally clobbered by Apple also but why? If it was me, I'd have been flattered and milked the situation for all it was worth. It's only sour grapes that someone else may possibly be making money out of an Apple connection and that person isn't Apple. Control is their watchword and they get most upset if they can't have it.
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Saturday 7th January 2012 20:23 GMT a_been
@David 45
Can you point out a single thing to prove this story isn't some PR spin by the toy maker. Oh yeah it's Apple, the company known for speaking to the press. Their PR is so fucking good they get to spin things without saying anything.
Not like some unknown company would tell people they are getting sued by Apple for PR. After all we all heard about the toy before the rumor of Apple suing anyone, right!
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Saturday 7th January 2012 15:03 GMT admiraljkb
American Law isn't exactly homogenous
Well, kindof an interesting story there, and borderline off topic for this, but good pub trivia. Not all of the US has English Common Law as a base. Texas has Spanish Common Law as its legal base. :) Louisiana is French/Spanish, and (by memory) the US Southwest (former Spanish colonies) is also Spanish Common law except for California which forcibly legislated English Common law for political reasons...
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Monday 9th January 2012 05:45 GMT Politely Skeptical
not exactly, admiral
There's no such thing as "Spanish Common Law" -- you're thinking of what's known as "civil law" and you're incorrect as to its reach in the US.
Louisiana is the only state that uses civil law as the basis for its lawmaking; Texas and the Southwestern states use common law. California did indeed codify the common law in its early history; not for political reasons, but to replace existing civil law from the Mexican and Spanish periods. That said, common law as it developed in the Western states has been influenced by Spanish civil law, most notably in the areas of community property and water rights.
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Saturday 7th January 2012 09:57 GMT ElNumbre
Watch out...
"Apple may have no rights to Jobs' name either. As Roberts points out, Apple's own list of the 178 terms for which it enjoys trademark rights doesn't have its cofounder's name on it."
No doubt they'll be correcting this oversight shortly. Also presumably they'll file to protect the wearing of a black polo and blue jeans.
Better watch out if your name is Steve, Steven or Stephen Jobs. They're also coming for you - best start saving now if you want to keep your name...
(I was going to use the Joke Alert icon, but now I think about it, I worry that this post may turn out to be true).
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Saturday 7th January 2012 16:58 GMT Dave Bell
Some of this should be pretty damn obvious. Hollywood is in California and, even without the craziness surrounding such things as movie piracy, there is some point in giving this protection to such people as actors. It seems to have died off, but there was once a lot of speculation about the face of a famous actor could be appearing in films after he died, through looming computer graphics tech. There are actors who have died during the production of a film, and some ingenious work done to finish the film--voice imitations, careful use of long-shots, that sort of thing--and protecting a likeness does set out the basis for dealing with these things.
Apple wouldn't want a fake Steve Jobs making adverts for rival companies.
But this seems to go way beyond the obvious reasons for such a law. You can start with setting up the rights needed for somebody to be able to make a deal, or put an enforceable clause in a contract. And then a bunch of politicians get bought, and a few lawyers make ingenious arguments in court, to get the best for their clients, and the result starts to seem insane.
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Saturday 7th January 2012 17:38 GMT Graham Marsden
@Dave Bell
"There are actors who have died during the production of a film, and some ingenious work done to finish the film--voice imitations, careful use of long-shots, that sort of thing--and protecting a likeness does set out the basis for dealing with these things."
There was also Plan 9 From Outer Space...!
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Monday 9th January 2012 14:16 GMT Anonymous Coward
@Graham Marsden
"There are actors who have died during the production of a film....
Well, the only one I can think of is Oliver Reed in Gladiator, didn't they CGI his face onto a body double for the film.
There is also the CGI route as well, didn't Lucas use CGI in a scene in one of the Star Wars films (a new hope???) where Han Solo steps over Jabba's tail?
I wonder why I thought of Jobba..... eh... Jabba the Hutt, the intergalactic crime lord and gangster who uses a retinue of criminals, yes -men... eh yes-aliens, and bodyguards to operate his criminal empire. And he wasn't particularly fond of androids either.
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Saturday 7th January 2012 20:51 GMT Eddy Ito
@Norfolk 'n' Goode
That only happens when the house doesn't do the odds right and sets the quarter slot machine to pay out an average of $10 for every 39 pulls of the lever. Now I won't pull the lever 4 million times trying to win a million dollars but a company with half million arms might.
That said with an insurance policy being a private contract, I don't know of any law stopping any person or company from taking out a life insurance policy on anyone else at any time for any reason. The caveat is, of course, that should that policy pay out under suspicious circumstances, the police will have a rather interesting set of questions for the beneficiary. It doesn't make it less morally questionable but business wise it looks more like an anti-pension in that the company gets a monetary gain if the employee dies before retirement rather than after.
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Sunday 8th January 2012 13:58 GMT bobbles31
You can't take out an insurance policy to gain, only to protect against losses. Companies can and quite rightly do take out key man i insurance to insure the lives of people working for those corporations. The point is to minimise the losses to the company should some really important personnel be hit by a bus.
As for rights I think that Apple would struggle to prove that Steve Jobs is their trademark, imagine if they won. Any company with an employee who is deemed to be the "face" of that company would then be able to sue that person if they moved to a different company.
I'm thinking of premiership football managers, or even players not being able to appear on tv following a transfer.
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Saturday 7th January 2012 14:53 GMT admiraljkb
The Steve Jobs estate is what has legal standing.
I noticed the lack of legal standing issue right away, and I've just had a couple semesters of pretty boring Business law AGES ago... If Apple's real attorneys can't, they're in big trouble. Apple can't sue over Steve Jobs likeness regardless of whether Steve Jobs was alive or dead. They don't have legal standing since they aren't Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs (and now his estate) would have to sue. If Apple's board votes to send funding and attorneys for Jobs's estate to sue, that's one thing, but Apple itself doesn't have the legal standing to sue.
This does make me question all the suits being filed though if Apple's attorneys seem to have a competency/credibility problem here.
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Saturday 7th January 2012 16:08 GMT wheel
Apple's claim was always spurious
If I recall, Apple's legal team wrote that selling the doll would be 'a criminal offence', which is so patently untrue that I am amazed any legal department would have been responsible for it.
It is, at most, a civil offence or (tort), and only then in jurisdictions which allow post-mortem personality rights. So while the doll certainly could not be sold or advertised in, say, Indiana without risk of (civil) legal proceedings (Indiana law has personality rights which extend 100 years post-mortem), it could certainly be sold in some other states without any realistic prospect of litigation. The 'single publication' rule cited on the 'Right of Publicity' site above might apply, but if the products are not available within a jurisdiction with suitable personality rights laws, no case could succeed in the first place.
And, of course, this doesn't affect the world outside the US anyway, as separate cases would have to be brought in each international jurisdiction, where local laws permit.
But here's the thing – most 'ordinary' people are not likely to want to spend the best part of $100 on a Steve Jobs doll. Those who would might actually prefer it if it was difficult to get hold of, as it would become more exclusive, so more 'collectable'. If the threat of litigation prevents the doll's legal sale in California, I doubt it would affect sales too much.
(Two things: first IANAL, though, apparently, I understand the difference between a criminal offence and a civil tort better than Apple's lawyers. Secondly, the Steve Jobs doll was pictured with an iPhone prop, and Apple would be able to sue for that everywhere; I suspect it might not ship with something that looks exactly like an iPhone.)
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Saturday 7th January 2012 20:52 GMT a_been
Can you give a link to the article showing Apple's legal department are involved, so far i have only seen links to a telegraph article saying Apple may or may not sue. As far as I understand it, once someone dies there is no legal claim to their likeness. We will forget the fact that SJ name is not a trademark or the fact that they can put "this doll is not based on any living or dead person" as Hollywood does in every film.
This story is total link bait of the highest quality.
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Saturday 7th January 2012 19:32 GMT Colin Wilson 2
Allegedly?
Did anyone actually read the Daily Telegraph article? It contains lines like:
"But 'their efforts have reportedly met with' a legal challenge with Apple allegedly threatening to sue the toy maker unless they cease trading."
Reportedly? Allegedly?? Isn't that just Journo code for 'We made it up'?
Of course, we'd all love it to be true :)
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Monday 9th January 2012 09:34 GMT big_D
Steve ok, Apple not
I beleive, they might not be able to do anything about the Steve doll itself, but wouldn't including the iPhone model and the Apple stickers as per the story last week be breaking Apple's trademarks?
They might be able to sell the iDol(l), but they might need to remove the accessories.
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Monday 9th January 2012 13:34 GMT Armando 123
So let me get this straight
"Under American law," Roberts writes, "so-called 'personality rights' exist only at the state level – there is no federal law. And only about a dozen states recognize image rights after death."
So this means that, for most states, we can sell a doll of any deceased member of a lawyer's or politician's family as a nazi or streetwalker (or both) and they have no say in it?
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Monday 9th January 2012 15:51 GMT Anonymous Coward
CIVIL LAW
"Apple had sent a letter ... which said in part that the company's use of late Apple cofounder's likeness was a 'criminal offense'."
Right of Publicity (Personality Rights) infringements, similar to trademark and copyright issues are a civil matter, not a criminal one.
Any party can choose to sue any other party in a civil court if they feel they have grounds to do so. This does not mean anyone has committed any criminal acts.
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Monday 9th January 2012 16:09 GMT Anonymous Coward
@bobbles31
"You can't take out an insurance policy to gain, only to protect against losses. Companies can and quite rightly do take out key man i insurance to insure the lives of people working for those corporations. The point is to minimise the losses to the company should some really important personnel be hit by a bus."
You can gain from such a policy if you over-value the employee and know the right sort of bus driver...