Apple hawks $2k folding fondleslab

It’s been a long time since Apple introduced a truly new product. The world finally got one today in the form of the folding iPhone Duo, and while it's new for Apple, it's not new for the industry. Nonetheless, Apple is once again hoping to validate a mostly moribund market as it did with tablets and smartwatches – folding …

[Anonymous Coward]

[checks price again]

LOL

Not a chance.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: [checks price again]

Not a chance.

Obviously not for the likes of you or me.

But how about the morons with more money than common sense?

.

[herman]

Re: [checks price again]

Hmm, I actually have the money to waste but too much common sense to do so

[Richard Crossley]

Re: [checks price again]

I've had the same thought with VR. Yeah looks good, but what am I using it for? With foldable phones I'm getting the same vibe.

If the goal is to only have one device, they could have done this with the iPad years ago, it has cellular functionality, but Apple refused to make it a phone as well. Paired with a bluetooth headset, it could have been kept in your bag or briefcase.

[Irongut]

Re: [checks price again]

You can make calls from an Android tablet but I fail to see why you would want to. Too heavy, too large and generally unwieldy compared to a phone.

[LybsterRoy]

Re: [checks price again]

You seem to be implying that people use smartphoone to make phone calls from - silly boy

[doublelayer]

Re: [checks price again]

If you're not making calls from the device, then a cellular tablet is equally capable as a smartphone running the same OS. It is still more annoying to carry around though, which is why I think people who like tablets tend to have both instead of trying to do everything with just the tablet.

[DrXym]

Re: [checks price again]

Apple can always count on them. Look how many splurged four grand on a Vision Pro headset, most of which are probably gathering dust right now.

[araczynski]

Re: [checks price again]

I couldn't afford the VisionPro, but having used a lot of different VR headset, after getting a chance to try one out I was blown away. Nothing STILL comes close to the build quality, visual quality, or the software implementation of the Vision Pro.

Their engineers/designers generally are always on point in comparison to every other outfit, where the engineers/designers/programmers are usually nothing more than yes men/women to the marketing/blood-out-of-turnips profit departments.

[ICL1900-G3]

Re: [checks price again]

They should spray one gold... there's a market for that amongst the hard of thinking.

[Scene it all]

The foldable offerings from Xiaomi and Huawei are hardly “just two phones strapped together” but I guess Apple does not need to compete against phones that US customer's can't actually buy.

[araczynski]

Apple also generally doesn't have to compete too much against ANYthing Android. Vast majority of iOS users have no reason to switch camps, and as someone who has spent many years in both, I can't blame them.

[frankyunderwood123]

file next to vision pro…

… a gadget for those with way too much disposable cash.

Just like the vision pro, this one is going to flop.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: file next to vision pro…

Because if they didn't we would be reading the-reg at work on a VT100 hooked upto our AS400, afterall who would need a computer at home?

The Vision Pro was never going to be a breakout like the iPod and Apple knew. What nobody knew was, is there a use for this beyond architectural models and watching movies on flights? Apple had enough money to risk it and made a product that was polished enough that non-techies could buy and use.

Remember they didn't build the iPhone because Instagram and Uber were waiting for it.

[ICL1900-G3]

Re: file next to vision pro…

I'd love an AS/400.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: file next to vision pro…

Every kitchen should have one to organize recipes

[jake]

What kind of lunatic ...

... would spend that kind of dosh on a fscking phone?

Ah, well. One more easy filter when hiring ...

_{Before anyone says it, you KNOW that kind will take any opportunity to flash their hardware.}

[Charlie Clark]

Re: What kind of lunatic ...

The kind of people who can afford it and enjoy showing that they can. There are plenty who are happy to buy the latest model whatever it is.

[Jimjam3]

Apple have run out of ideas for a while now. Can’t imagine this device becoming popular.

[BartyFartsLast]

All true, but I bet I see at least one in the week following it becoming available for sale

[Antony Shepherd]

Give it a few weeks and people will be writing about it as if Apple invented the idea of a folding phone.

(like people thought Apple invented MP3 players with the iPod)

[Richard Crossley]

"Apple Inventions"

I had that discussion this morning, LOL

[BartyFartsLast]

Like people think the invented the right mouse button, or even the mouse and GUI itself.

Instead, as with almost everything, they rip off other people's ideas.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

But they invented NOT having a right mouse button

[araczynski]

Consumers DGAF who invents what, they GAF about who makes the better version of something. Whether the consumer/market is interested in a particular product however is a separate issue.

For example I love vertical mice, they're so comfortable I can't imagine working without them for the past decade. If Apple ever came out with their own, I'm sure they'd find a way to make it an even better experience than it already is, even if I couldn't afford the result :)

[Antony Shepherd]

Doubt it. Apple mice have always been a bit crap, like the original iMac 'puck', or the way Steve Jobs hated buttons so the designers had to stealth a right button in by not having any buttons on the mouse, not to mention the crazy idea of having the charging port on the bottom.

[dovinki]

Most maligned product ever?

I actually think the iMac ‘puck’ was great! It was the perfect size for my ‘smallish’ size hand, and it worked like a charm.

[Blue Screen of Bleurgh]

Expect the usual queues outside of Apple shops, as punters wait to hand over their plastic for something that will look great on their social media page ("Me and my Duo"). But then once the novelty wears off and the "do we care!" factor disappears at a rate of knots they're stuck with an expensive device that will only ever be used for the usual stuff like taking video and snapping pics.

But I guess Apple will always be dependent on mug punters

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Don't 'Influencers' just AI the phone onto their posts? Or do they still have to buy and return after filming?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where innovation?

They created the iPod. Which although we had Zune and other MP3 players was innovative yet simple. The first iPhone with it's walled garden was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

What happened since then?

Android has caught up and all Apple have done is consistently copy everyone else while keeping specs lower than the money you are paying and lower than everyone else. The streaming service is really good to be fair.

Do they not have an R&D department? Do they not have people thinking what if we do this or try this or even make this? There has got to come a point where people look at it and go nah I can get that elsewhere cheaper and I don't need to flash an iPhone out to think everyone thinks I'm cool. Who is spending 2000 American freedom dollars on a phone anyway?

If someone has an iPhone my personal view is they either are a bit simple and can't use anything else or they don't care about wasting money.

[werdsmith]

Re: Where innovation?

If someone is that judgmental about other’s choices then they aren’t someone you want in your life.

I don’t particularly like iPhone because I’ve tried to use Android and found it to be of an unsurpassed level of dogshit. I’ve been using iPhone since V4 and I’ve never once paid for the phone, always had free cast offs.

I have a company provided new Android phone and it absolutely fulfils my earlier description. I use it as little as possible.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Where innovation?

I admit that came off a rather judgemental. It wasn't my intention. I am only going off my personal experience of iPhone users as being completely tech illiterate and some being a show off when a new one comes out. I expect to see this flip phone on show in the hands of many people. IPhone, Vegan and Air Fryer are all terms some people see as a personality trait for some weird reason, the vegan I can understand though.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Where innovation?

>iPhone users as being completely tech illiterate

That's why I got rid of my Linux phone, now I have BSD phone with a cli

[Jimjam3]

Re: Where innovation?

I have had cast off iPhones and I find they perform the few tasks required of them very well. With the added bonus of not having to set up much to start using them.

Note: I am tech savvy, I’m just not interested in doing such things to my mobile phone.

[Headley_Grange]

Re: Where innovation?

I think that your expectations are precisely why we can't have nice things. Instead of knuckling down and fixing all the bugs, niggles and problems with their products, companies are expected to come up with the game-changing equivalent of the iPhone every year. They scrabble round to fanfare new features that look good when animated on the big screen in a theatre but then get ignored, sidelined and then quietly dropped a couple of OS's later. I'd prefer them to spend a year just fixing bugs and responding to user comments for improving useability.

[BartyFartsLast]

Re: Where innovation?

You do know that R&D and bug fixing aren't mutually exclusive though?

You can do both, but they choose not to

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Where innovation?

Game-changing is not required. Just innovation. Flip phone is not new. The buds and watches were not new. The iPod was good because it was straight forward and easy to use for the majority likewise the first iPhones did the same but what have they done since then? They made a metric shit ton of money and done nothing with it other than copy everyone else with the hardware always behind others. They've got the money. Try something new. Who knows where it could lead? Just seems to be a waste to me. Sure, not everything is going to work but how do you know if you don't even try? Fixing bugs is par the course for everyone and not related to innovation.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Where innovation?

I had a folding phone in the 90s

It was a Nokia on the outside and unfolded to a thing with a screen and keyboard that was nearly a Psion

[BartyFartsLast]

Re: Where innovation?

Agree with most of that and am also an android user but take a rather more pragmatic approach to the last paragraph.

If the tech and UI works for someone then it's the right device for them, we don't all get on with things the same way, not do we all have the same tastes, use cases or needs of our tech, or for that matter, anything we buy.

[Our Lord and Savior Rahl]

Re: Where innovation?

I've got an iphone and like to consider myself passably technical...

I got an iPhone 3GS as my first work smartphone, had a couple of Android phones in between but had just gotten used to iOS. It works, it does what I use it for and I've never had one let me down. I have far more important things to do with my day than try and relearn a new OS for my phone, so apple camp I became.

I have a watch too, because it worked really easily with my phone and I got it cheap.

I know lots of current and former colleagues who've also picked iPhones because it's just easy and they work. It's a phone. I use it for messages, calls, videocalling the kids when I'm away, and for music in the car. That's about it.

Mind you I also run Windows 11 on my PC instead of a hand rolled Linux distro.

When I was younger I'd rail that I couldn't customise it enough, or it didn't have X,Y, or Z or some other frivolous argument. These days, I just want a phone that works and doesn't require conscious thought to use because I have bigger issues in my day-to-day than trying to work around it.

I'm not an Apple Fanboy but it's what I'm used to. If I'd been given a Samsung or something for my work phone, I'd probably be using Android instead and I STILL wouldn't care what flavour of phone people were using.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The first iPhone ... was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

You obviously weren't there. Smart phones didn't know what shape to be and hadn't decided on touch before the iPhone showed the world how to do it.

I'm not an Apple fan by any stretch of the imagination but you're implying that the iPhone was competing with Android from the start and that's not how it happened.

Apple effectively invented the smart phone. Google and other manufacturers rushed to catch up once the form factor was established.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The first iPhone ... was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

Apple, as usual, took the best features of the competition and bundled them together,

IBM invented the touchscreen smartphone, but as usual made it deeply unattractive and expensive, Ericsson, Nokia and Sharp took the ball and ran with it, HTC and a bunch of other manufacturers had touch screen smartphones, some of them pretty cool, in the couple of years before the first iPhone, then Apple came along, and as usual took all the bits and made it pretty.

[Dinanziame]

Re: The first iPhone ... was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

then Apple came along, and as usual took all the bits and made it pretty

They made it better. Really. The iPhone was heads and shoulders above the competition when it came out, and nobody disputed that at the time. And they kept improving new versions, so that it took at least four years before you could look at a competitor, squint a bit and say it was almost as good as the latest iPhone.

The field is pretty even today, but let's not reinvent history: the first iPhones were revolutionary at the time.

[werdsmith]

Re: The first iPhone ... was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

When the first iPhone came out it was still 2/2.5G when 3G was established. They had to name the follow after 3G to show it had caught up. It had no option for 3rd party apps and just 16 apps of its own.

It was technically way behind existing phones. And its camera was poor by comparison too.

But it had that fancy UI involving the multi touch and flick and bounce scrolling so it won the shiny battle.

Nobody even mentioned Blackberry yet.

[Annihilator]

Re: The first iPhone ... was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

I'm not a dye-in-the-wool Apple fan by any stretch of the imagination, but show me which smartphone was remotely good or mainstream before the iPhone.

You had the choice of a PDA with a stylus and a phone bolted on, or you had a Blackberry which was a one-trick pony for email (a great trick, no doubt, but needed so much corporate integration to work properly - remember Blackberry Enterprise Servers that had to be hosted in the corporate datacentres?).

Sure, there was no real new tech in the device, but the way in which it was put together is what made it game changing.

[werdsmith]

Re: The first iPhone ... was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

needed so much corporate integration to work properly - remember Blackberry Enterprise Servers that had to be hosted in the corporate datacentres

No the Blackberry worked just like normal phones with the email through whatever smtp/imap service. They became the de facto, almost obligatory phone for schoolkids. They did browsing too and had social media apps.

I don't know where you are in the world, but here everybody in my techy work world got Nokia N95 after 2005, having been Ericsson P800 users before that. Apple would never have got involved if they hadn't seen the market being trailbroken by others. Their first phone was an improvement in UI only, even its 2G only wireless cell connection range was shit, along with its battery life.

By iPhone 4 it had developed into a decent phone, more than just a shiny.

[Annihilator]

Re: The first iPhone ... was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

It didn't support SMTP/IMAP natively to begin with - you had to route all your traffic through the Blackberry Internet Service (BIS) if you weren't using BES in the corporate environment. And none of the Blackberrys at that time had touchscreens of any type - not even a stylus. They became defacto for schoolkids once BBM had properly taken off, not til around the early 2010s. And only once Blackberry had started to lose the corporate market (same time period).

I had early Blackberrys, and an N95 at one point. The N95 wasn't a touchscreen smartphone. I'm not sure you could call it comparable to an iPhone?

[werdsmith]

Re: The first iPhone ... was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

I don't know why touchscreen is the criteria here. It's part of the shiny UI. It's not what makes it a smartphone.

Web browsing, email, calendar etc

I would place more emphasis on the capability to create and market, download and use 3rd party apps.

[Dinanziame]

Re: The first iPhone ... was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

It's because of the "shiny UI" that the iPhone was the first phone you could really use for web browsing. The first phone to have multi-touch, the first phone to have a proper web browser that could render most websites. The earlier smartphones were so limited that surfing the web felt like being on a BBS, and the top smartphone at the time was the Blackberry because you could send texts for free.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The first iPhone ... was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

Go buy a "smartphone" without a touchscreen, see how you get on. Or try convincing someone they don't need one and that it's just a "shiny UI".

[ICL1900-G3]

Re: The first iPhone ... was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

I hear this so often 'it's better'. How so?

[Mongrel]

Re: The first iPhone ... was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

It's probably the normal "We don't allow you easy access the 'gubbins' so it's harder for a novice to muck up".

[sabroni]

Re: I hear this so often 'it's better'. How so?

You know modern smart phones? It was the first one.

iPhone released Jun 2007. It's 2010 before there is serious competition from HTC, Motorola and Samsung with decent Android devices.

[Marty McFly]

Re: The first iPhone ... was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

"Apple, as usual, took the best features of the competition and bundled them together,"

Apple's strategy has not been to be first. Apple's strategy has been to do it better.

Time will tell if Apple's Duo will succeed where earlier folding phones had marginal success. Maybe El Reg will do a follow up article in late 2027...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Apple, as usual, took the best features of the competition and bundled them together,

Oh, is that all?

I worked in mobile at the time. We had trays of devices, some that looked a bit like iphones, most still had buttons of some kind, though maybe arranged around the screen instead of in a pad, but no manufacturer that had worked out how to make a compelling product from all the bits they had.

In hindsight, now every fucking phone is a touchscreen device, it's easy to say "all they did is take the bits and make it pretty".

No one else was able to do that.

That's the point.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The first iPhone ... was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

1st touch screen phone was likely the IBM Simon from 1994, sold 50k units

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Simon

Apple's touchscreen stuff traces its roots back to the Newton in 1993

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Newton

Tandy Zoomer (Z-PDA / Casio Z-7000) built in 1992 is arguably the 1st touch screen pda, paved the way to palmOS and the popular palm pds's from 1996 onwards

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm,_Inc.#Founding_and_acquisition

Jobs originally wanted apps to be web apps that people could save to the phone from a web page, the app store came later & became a way to monetise apps on the phones with much greater capabilities.

[Jimjam3]

Re: The first iPhone ... was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

The kicker which everyone knows but is ignoring in these comments is that prior to the iPhone touch screens needed a stylus of sorts.

The touch screen used by the iPhone allowed you to use your finger tip (which you take with you where ever you go).

That plus a larger screen made the usability of the device 100% better.

In short usability is Apples focus when making products.

Now the current question, is the Duo a major improvement in usability? Not really…

[Irongut]

Re: The first iPhone ... was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

"You obviously weren't there." - I was but I doubt you were.

Smartphones existed and usually had touchscreens long before BOTH Android and iPhone.

Apple did not invent the smartphone, that was Handspring and Palm. I owned several smartphones before Jobs revealed the iPhone in 2006, including one running `Windows Mobile 2003 for Smartphones`.

[Annihilator]

Re: The first iPhone ... was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

I had a fair few smartphones too. But they were far from smart. And few of them had a touchscreen, unless it was with a stylus. Most of them had a fixed keyboard (a few PDAs had on-screen keyboards, but again, stylus driven - I'm thinking of my iPAQs over the years)

"Windows Mobile 2003 for Smartphones" was literally designed for static screens. It worked with a d-pad and keys.

I don't think anyone's claiming Apple "invented" smartphones from day 1 - but every smartphone today looks and feels like the first iPhone, and nothing like the ones before it.

[Dinanziame]

Re: The first iPhone ... was great for non-tech people whilst Android was still figuring itself out.

Yeah, I also had a Palm Treo before I had an iPhone, but honestly it would be ridiculous to compare them and claim they were close to équivalent

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Where innovation?

Android playing "catch up" is such a misnomer...back in the early days of Android when the iPhone first released, Android made whatever the Apple OS was called at the time look rubbish...even Windows Mobile did. The original iPhone was just a phone with a web browser...there wasn't even an app store...Android and Windows Mobile had apps before Apple did...and they were way easier to build...especially on Windows Mobile.

We all took the piss out of Windows mobile, lets be honest, because we thought it sucked at the time...but with the benefit of hindsight, and looking at what we have now...it was actually very good and was the single point in time where you could build a truly cross platform application without wrappers, packagers and all the other guff that comes with it.

I was able to straight up take code from existing tools that I had, put a Windows Mobile UI over it in Visual Studio, compile it and just send it to the phone...no bullshit...just worked...everything I had built that I used day to day could be used on Windows Mobile without too much fuss. I miss my TyTN.

If only Windows Mobile manufacturers had put fucking GPS in the phones with a decent map app, Apple wouldn't have been so dominant...I don't care what anyone says, or what justifications they come up with...it was GPS that won it for Apple...being able to "sat nav" on a phone...nothing else really mattered because other phones could do the other stuff...but most of them couldn't do GPS...that is what made the iPhone feel futuristic.

[Roland6]

Re: Where innovation?

>” The original iPhone was just a phone with a web browser...”

At the time the reviews were along the lines of : a mobile phone that was good at doing everything other than making phone calls.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: The original iPhone was just a phone with a web browser...

Because Jobs specifically was concerned that a crashed app could stop you making/receiving calls. Imagine the press if the phone blue-screened while trying to make an emergency call ?

He came from an era when the phone system was incredibly reliable and when the idea of using a phone to actually phone somebody didn't seem weird

And when "software upgrade takes out 911 service across 3 states" actually made the local news rather than just the-reg.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The original iPhone was just a phone with a web browser...

Android and Windows Mobile didn't have this problem at the time...perhaps Jobs wasn't very confident in the software his company produced?

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: The original iPhone was just a phone with a web browser...

>perhaps Jobs wasn't very confident in the software his company produced?

It had their software, he probably wasn't confident in the OS ability to block all possible failures by random 3rd party apps

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Android and Windows Mobile didn't have this problem at the time.

because they weren't an option at the time the iPhone came out.

2003 Android, Inc. founded.

2005 Google acquires Android.

Jan 2007 First iPhone announced by Steve Jobs.

Jun 2007 First iPhone released.

Nov 2007 Android platform publicly announced via the Open Handset Alliance.

Jul 2008 iPhone 3G + App Store era begins.

Oct 2008 First Android phone released: HTC Dream / T-Mobile G1.

2010 iPhone 4 introduces Retina Display. Android becomes a major competitor with devices from HTC, Motorola and Samsung.

[werdsmith]

Re: Where innovation?

>” The original iPhone was just a phone with a web browser...”

It was an iPod Touch with a phone. People are giving iPhone credit for something that was pioneered on the iPod Touch.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Where innovation?

Ah, I see you're just trolling. The iPod Touch came out *after* the iPhone.

[ICL1900-G3]

Re: Where innovation?

I hate to say this, but Windows Phone wasn't bad at all, the hardware was nice and the cameras better than most.

[The Organ Grinder's Monkey]

Re: Where innovation?

Ref "Windows Phone wasn't bad at all"

Seconded. In my back catalogue of mobile 'phones there's an HTC HD2 which I loved dearly. Windows Mobile 6. It just worked, & was straightforward enough for a simple Luser like me to modify it when I needed to. Hardware wasn't that reliable though.

(Full list of my mobile catalogue for those that care about such things as this thread made me wonder if I could remember them all, feel free to ignore, obviously!

Motorola 4500x

Motorola 8500x

Motorola 3200 (iirc, briefly as it was awful)

Nokia 2110 (x15+, thanks to Orange UK's 24hr exchange unit scheme & very fragile antennae)

Nokia 9000

Nokia 9210

Ericsson R310

Sony Ericsson P800

Sony Ericsson P900

Sony Ericsson P910

Samsung Galaxy Note 3

Samsung Galaxy Note 4

Samsung Galaxy Note 8

Samsung Galaxy Note 9

Samsung Galaxy Note 20

Samsung S25 ultra (current)

[Fr. Ted Crilly]

Re: Where innovation?

sat nav (TT, Garmin, McGuider-Aura-Sygic) on a phone?

Symbian and most of the 'N' series on board and otherwise with a BT GPS wotsit.

Never mind eh...

[werdsmith]

Re: Where innovation?

Yes, Nokia N Series users could purchase and install TomTom on their phones.

Along with a lot of other apps in the market place. Though not too many because Symbian SDK was a bit of a weird thing to get your head around.

[Dinanziame]

Re: Where innovation?

when the iPhone first released, Android made whatever the Apple OS was called at the time look rubbish...even Windows Mobile did. The original iPhone was just a phone with a web browser

Just a phone with a web browser, a real web browser able to render real websites and not some WAP shit, which is why it was so successful. At the time, nobody thought that surfing the web was viable from a phone, and I say this having owned a so-called smartphone with a touch screen years before the iPhone came out. It's only after the iPhone that operators got serious about data plans, because before that the most data-intensive application was fucking SMS, and the killer feature of Blackberry was that you could text for free.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Where innovation?

".back in the early days of Android when the iPhone first released, Android made whatever the Apple OS was called at the time look rubbish."

Uh, Android wasn't around when the iPhone first released. It was literally developed as a challenger to iPhone and iOS.

I think it's generally accepted that Android reached parity with the iPhone around the release of Icecream Sandwich or Jellybean.

"If only Windows Mobile had GPS... it was GPS that won it for Apple...being able to "sat nav" on a phone..."

If's and but's. And pretty much the point, Apple got it right. Yet you're still wrong in your memory. Apple had GPS from the 3G (and "iOS2" - though not called that), the original just had cell-phone/wifi triangulation and approximation. But they couldn't do turn-by-turn. From memory, they made that an iPhone 4 feature - though you could buy satnav apps from the App Store from the 3GS onwards, including TomTom's app.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Where innovation?

If only Microsoft had locked down Exchange Server so that you could only connect remotely from Windows Mobile they would have had the corporate market stitched up.

What's the point of being an evil monopoly if you don't use it ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Where innovation?

Except the C suite would never have accepted it. They all had iPhones.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Where innovation?

I thought all the cool presidents had Blackberries?

[cookiecutter]

Re: Where innovation?

Apple paid $55 billion/YEAR for a decade to help the Chinese firms catch up because they're cowards and feel for Xi's bluff.

Apple COULD be innovative but even though Wall Street keeps fucking up, for some reason Apple listens to them.

[Fr. Ted Crilly]

Re: Where innovation?

So innovative that apple lost a patent/copyright bunfight with Creative over the menu structure...

100 million$ and a permanent license for accessories to go with ipods...

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Where innovation?

Blackberry lost $Bns because they laughed off a patent troll who claimed to have invented "receiving information on a mobile device"

Paying a couple of $M (these headline figures always get slashed in later deals) to keep selling millions of iPods was a smart move - whatever the reality of Creative's claim

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Where innovation?

Security - the exploits to enter an updated iPhone are more expensive than their Android counterpart

[ecofeco]

The shiney precious

Wake up babe, a new vapid status symbol just dropped!

[A Non e-mouse]

I've been thinking of getting an iPad mini and sometimes I'd like a bigger screen than my phone's when reading. Seeing that the iPhone Duo's main screen is similar size to the iPad mini would make it ideal buy for me.

But I ain't paying £2k for the convenience. Nor do I want to be first to see how robust that hinge is.

[Anonymous Coward]

"I've been thinking of getting an iPad mini and sometimes I'd like a bigger screen than my phone's when reading"

Everyone goes through this phase at some point. You really don't need the tablet. You'll buy it, lug it around for a while, then just use your phone because it's a pain in the arse to carry a tablet as well.

If you can get away with not needing the actual phone component, you could replace your phone with an iPad mini...but that's not very practical for a lot of people. I did that for a while, but ultimately it sucked and I went back to carrying a phone.

What you're actually in the market for is a smaller laptop, there are little N150 based laptops with screens the same size as an iPad mini that fold and convert into tablets. They're a bit thicker than an iPad mini, but you get a full fat OS on it and can do a lot more...that extra practicality justifies the drawbacks...they're also a lot cheaper than an iPad mini and have sockets on them like USB-A and Ethernet...usually a headphone jack too.

[sweh]

Potentially different use cases.

When I'm on the train then I definitely use my phone (Pixel 8 Pro) for reading; the 6.7" display is adequate and I already have my phone with me, so I don't need to carry a second device (the phone also has a copy of all my ripped CDs so I can play my music as well from that one device).

But if I'm at home (e.g. reading in bed) then I use my Samsung A7 Lite (8.7" display) tablet. The larger screen is just that much better.

I tried using an even bigger tablet (10.1") but this is now too big for one handed holding, which makes it uncomfortable for reading in bed (I read in bed laying on my side, not sitting up). It's fine for reading when I'm on my sofa, but not for reading in bed. 2-in-1 devices (laptops that flip into a tablet) are just right out for this purpose, being too thick and heavy and uncomfortable to hold.

So, for me, the smaller tablet is the right tool for the job.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

I really want one of those 8" GPD "pocket" laptops.

Do I need one? Do I have an actual use for one? Do I really want to pay the price of a decent ThinkPad for one? No

Am I probably going to end up buying one? Yes

[Anonymous Coward]

They weren't expensive when I bought one. I got the 64GB HX370 model for around £1k. They're nearly £3k now!

As for already having a use case...the way I look at it is this...a use case isn't something I generally have ahead of time. I don't have a hammer in my toolbox because I need a hammer all the time. I have a hammer in my toolbox because it's useful to have a hammer.

I love my Pocket 4 to bits, it's one of the best laptops I've ever had...and I've been through many weird and wacky laptops over the years...but I always only ever had one laptop at a time. So there were always situations where my laptop was inconvenient.

So my message is, owning a Thinkpad does not preclude you from own a GPD Pocket 4. You can keep your existing laptop and keep using as well as have the Pocket 4...there will be situations where you might prefer a larger laptop...there might be situations where carrying a smaller one is more practical.

I actually have a pool of 4 laptops. I have T480s which I looooove, an X1 Carbon Gen 6, which I like a lot....a weird Lenovo Yoga 700, which I keep repairing even though it's probably one of the worst laptops to repair...ever...I just love the form factor of it...it's nice to hold and is a breeze to use casually...and I have a GPD Pocket 4 which is my main laptop these days. What I find with the Pocket 4, is that because it takes up so little space when it's out, I'm more able to communicate with customers when I'm on site, I don't have this physical barrier that I'm peering over. It's more like I'm there with the customer and also have a laptop than there with a laptop to also be with the customer...this is more important these days as site visits are usually specifically because you can't do whatever it is you need to do over a Teams call or remotely or whatever...you're not primarily there to setup and crack on, you're there to collaborate and solve a difficult problem.

I've always hated turning up somewhere to meet people and everyone whips out a laptop and sets up this weird pseudo barrier / wall between themselves and everyone else...it's got a defensive sort of feel to it...makes the conversation feel a lot less open and more guarded. I know it's only a metaphorical thing, but sitting with a little internal perimeter of 13 inch rectangles always feels closed off and less personal.

What I've always liked about Thinkpads is that you can open them up flat...which makes gathering around a screen that bit easier, you don't have to push the laptop away or jostle for position to see it, you just lie it flat and stand around it...the Pocket goes one step further in that regard because you can convert it into tablet mode and pass it around the table...it's small enough for that...

Also, being able to whip out a small laptop anywhere to do someething quickly is always a bonus...getting your laptop out feels like less of a commitment and more like you literally are just doing something quickly...that "quick 5 minutes" is literally a quick 5 minutes...it's not 5 minutes with 10 minutes of setup and 10 minutes to put it away.

[herman]

We have an iPad that lies around in the living room. It gets used quite a lot by the SO and I. She does Pinterest, colouring and preschool stuff and I mostly just play music and sometimes browse for news.

[werdsmith]

Yes, the iPad is a lie about the house, pick up and instant on and use device. Or slip in your bag lightweight study device.

[Roland6]

But that is the traditional 10~11 inch iPad, mine goes everywhere as it fits my 10L backpack. The larger iPad Pro (13 inch) is too big and heavy so gets treated more like a laptop, which given I have a laptop, I don’t see the point of it - although the larger screen and good camera etc. does make it an better Zoom/Teams terminal than the laptop. The iPad mini isn’t some ways tries to be a ebook reader but not being that much larger than a phone screen isn’t really an improvement.

An irritation I have is car entertainment systems have patchy support for iPads. I’ve had older systems (circa 2020) which will happily use an iPad as an audio source and newer ones (2025) refuse to connect, with this behaviour not being consistent across a manufacturers range of vehicles. According to the spec’s, an iPhone would work without problem, but because I use an Android phone and my iPad as my podcast platform this isn’t helpful…

[Anonymous Coward]

Lightweight? Compared to other tablets, they weigh a ton.

The best tablet ever made (discounting the specs) was the Tesco Hudl and Tesco Hudl 2...those felt amazing in your hands and were actually lightweight. I was recently going through a load of old crap and found mind, I'd forgotten just how good the build quality was...it's shocking how shit feeling a lot of modern tablets are...particularly the more expensive ones.

[Dan 55]

iFixit Score: -10

As for the hinge – the bane of every foldable smartphone since the first Galaxy Fold hit shelves in 2019 – Apple claims that “over 100 tiny precision components” and the assistance of AI will ensure it's a tight and reliable fit.

There's cheap and disposable and then there's expensive and disposable.

[Headley_Grange]

Re: iFixit Score: -10

I think they think that "100 tiny precision components" is will impress and assure us.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: iFixit Score: -10

It would in 2006. Remember the Vaio P11Z. Apple has never even come close to that kind of engineering.

[Mongrel]

Re: iFixit Score: -10

Have they managed to wipe the butterfly keyboard from the Apple collective memory?

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Re: iFixit Score: -10, BS Bingo Score: 100

"and the assistance of AI"

[blu3b3rry]

Re: iFixit Score: -10, BS Bingo Score: 100

"AI assistance" really isn't the winning statement they seem to think it is.

[ICL1900-G3]

Re: iFixit Score: -10, BS Bingo Score: 100

I agree, but sadly there are an awful lot of clueless people who will see it as the icing on the cake.

[Dan 55]

Re: iFixit Score: -10, BS Bingo Score: 100

Tell me how to design a foldable phone, make no mistakes.

[Wade Burchette]

Re: iFixit Score: -10

"over 100 tiny precision components"

In other words, over 100 potential points of failure.

[asperamanus]

Rolling in his grave

Steve Jobs must be rolling in his grave!

This product is so out of branding for Apple.

They've always said, "What do we say 'No' to?", and this should've been "No".

This folding thingy should never even have been prototyped and is a disgrace.

Apple has now entered the era where they were when Steve first left the company.

No boys, this is NOT the way to go.

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Re: Rolling in his grave

As Steve is unable to come to the rescue, may be we'll see Tim (or Jony) making a 2nd appearance

[doublelayer]

Re: Rolling in his grave

Why, exactly? Steve didn't block the cool design for the iPhone 4 which made the antenna unreliable. Steve didn't block the G4 Cube which put geometric design over not overheating. Steve didn't reject products that were only for those willing to spend a lot, even compared to the average Apple buyer. What about this product makes it something that wouldn't have been considered before?

[Anonymous Coward]

The BoJo Phone

Apple, the Boris Johnson of the phone market, following the crowd then running to the front and screaming "follow me"

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The BoJo Phone

This. Apple has mastered the art of waiting until all the bugs are ironed out, then releasing a copy and calling it cutting edge.

It's been this way since the iPhone...and to a lesser extent the Macbook Air.

Anyone yearn for the time before 2007 when tech was interesting?

Before Apple made everything homogenous, my "field kit" fit in a Sophos ring binder. I had a Vaio P11z (alright, not an amazingly fast piece of kit, but the form factor was *chefs kiss*) and I carried an HTC TyTN (later a TyTN II) phone...which had capabilities that even phones in 2026 still don't have...for example, I was able to plug a USB Serial adapter into my TyTN and have a full slide out keyboard to debug routers and switches with (a very good keyboard as well)...I didn't have to take my laptop out for a lot of basic stuff...as much as it pains me to say it as well, Windows Mobile was a lot easier to write custom software for...so I had a lot of custom tools for autodeploying configs to Cisco kit over the serial connection...I swear, if you knocked out a 20 something now, and took them back in time to 2007 to show them what kit could do back then and the size of it, they'd think they've actually gone forward in time.

My laptop was heavily modified to be fair, I swapped out the shitty 1.8" spinning hard drive and replaced it with a compact flash card (essentially making the laptop solid state) and I installed an extended battery on it, plus I swapped out the wifi card for something a bit more "Linux friendly"...Linux had no graphics drivers for that laptop, but it didn't matter because I only ever used it in console mode with CLI apps...I could surf the web on my phone just fine and back then mobile sites actually worked properly because they were a lot less complicated and bloated.

Apple really did fuck things up and take us backwards.

I was recently able to sort of go "back in time" to a similar setup, I bought a GPD Pocket 4, which is an exceptional device if you're a field engineer, it is the platonic idea of a perfect engineers laptop...but I'm not a field engineer anymore...I still love it though...it's not quite as good as the P11z form factor though...I could carry my P11z in an inside a pocket in my winter rain jacket...can't quite do that with a GPD P4...and the keyboard, whilst it feels good, has a slightly quirky layout...the P11z keyboard was just perfection...everything where you expect it, key travel was good, the feel of it was good...aside from the graphics chip let down, it was what I would consider to be the perfect ultra portable laptop...right down to the screen aspect, you could split a terminal down the middle with a multiplexer and have two ttys side by side with no compromises.

After the Macbook air, everything went 13.3" and we had to start carrying a fucking rucksack again for all the dongles and extra crap we needed...gone were the days you could just turn up, whip your phone or laptop out, and just crack on...you now had a little 10-15 minute setup window, finding a desk, plugging shit in etc etc...searching your huge fucking bag for the mouse because touchpads are shit and laptops don't have a "nipple" anymore (except Lenovo)...what a faff.

Fuck Apple man. I've always strongly disagreed with their "Think Different" slogan. They don't really think, and they aren't different...stripped back is not the same as being different. It's just stripped back...all of their innovation is corporate innovation...they found a way to save pennies on sockets whilst costing the customer tens of dollars multiple times for dongles. Even my P11z, which was thinner than a Macbook Air, had an ethernet jack...granted it required that little dongle that came with the laptop, but at least it came with the laptop...and it was designed in a way that it clipped onto the end of your power supply so you could attach it to something to prevent losing it / keep your setup tidy...that's innovation...it even had a built in mobile modem for internet connectivity if you were out and about that worked incredibly well...for a brief moment 20 years ago, I experienced the freedom of being able to work from anywhere...until Apple fucked things and forced us back onto a desk / into coffee shops.

Lets also not forget that Apple introduced us to the "pure white" grubby office space...everyone back then had to have white desks, white chairs, white everything...the knock on effect was that every desk had black smears on it because of greasy hands and urban grime...that still exists if you have wooden desks or dark coloured desks, but you don't have the constant psychological attack reminding you that cities are gross sitting a wooden desk...this all led to other things needing to be trendy as well...the fucking Aeron chair. Jesus christ, quite possibly the worst chair ever designed if you're trying to avoid deep vein thrombosis and piles (Don't believe me? Look it up, mesh chairs are insanely bad for your circulation and health) your back will feel amazing, just before you die from a blood clot hitting your lungs.

The last thing that Apple did right was the iPod (except the price and a few quirks)...I'll give them that...there were MP3 players that exceeded the iPod in terms of sheer features, capacity and performance, but not build quality and battery life...the only major drawbacks were the proprietary cable and the fact that you couldn't really use them properly without a Mac...you could sort of use them with iTunes on Windows, but features were missing.

Grr...right back to work.

[blu3b3rry]

Re: The BoJo Phone

Apple have a lot to answer for with making everything "thin and light" complete with no usable or useful ports, and bugger all serviceability.

Work was flogging off Intel era MacBook Pros, I snagged a nice 2018 model for about £50 which I thought was a very good deal. Intended to use it to replace my heavily refurbished and maxed out 2014ish 14" HP Elitebook which has been my travel beater for a few years now.

I still use the HP over the Macbook. They weigh around the same, and have similar battery life (The HP got a new battery from iFixit to keep it usable).

The HP has the advantage of lots of usable USB ports, an SD card reader built in and easy access to the internals via a nice big tool-free hatch. All things the MacBook lacks. Performance for just web browsing, media streaming and the odd document is effectively the same despite the more powerful CPU in the Mac, so....it doesn't really offer any advantage apart from being thinner, which doesn't matter in my bag.

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Re: The BoJo Phone

This could be the Liz Truss/Lettuce phone.

How long will it be before the display splits, in the hands of diehard iPhone users?

[Anonymous Coward]

Awesome, they made it expensive enough that I never have to target the small number of people that will buy it, because they are the same people not interested in mass market apps.

Nice one Apple, keep hiving off the non-profitable users.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

It's a flagship. It's job is to get in the news and make people think about a new iPhone even if they don't buy this one.

If you are going to do a new flagship phone at least it's not just another 0.5" bigger screen or 10MP more camera.

[Fruit and Nutcase]

When the display creases

You are folding it wrong!

[Charlie Clark]

Margin is more important than market share

folding phones only made up 1.6% of total smartphone sales

Given the size of the global market that's still a lot of phones. But, it's also a misleading statistics as ownership is concentrated in East Asia, where many people only have a phone. Might be difficult for Apple to gain market share there but they have probably good reason to hope that there will be plenty of wannabe influencers in America who will make the same argument.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Margin is more important than market share

Interesting Apple and Samsung are still each 20% of the global market

I would have thought that cheap androids would have sold much more across Africa and S.E Asia

[Charlie Clark]

Re: Margin is more important than market share

I guess it depends how you measure it. If you measure the % of phones sold over a particular period of time, those markets with the highest refresh rate will tend to dominate. And Apple really dominates the US market with many fanbois and gurls happy to buy a new phone at least every two years, which is great for Apple's bottom line. Not sure if that's the case in Nigeria, Egypt or Ethiopia (Africa's largest countries, I think). Apple's market share in China is remarkably resillient but that's mainly down to its strength as a status symbol.

Samsung adapted a few years ago and now offers some excellent cheaper phones as well as the high-end stuff like folding devices that are disproportionately popular in East Asia. I love my Samsung A35, even if I do miss wireless charging but can't find anything from Apple that is remotely close on spec and price. Apple prefers to rundown inventory of older models rather than enter the low-margin fray and given their sale volumes, they seem to have right of it.

[theOtherJT]

I just can't get over...

...how freaking ugly it is. I mean, most folding phones are - because they're inherently asymmetrical and asymmetry is only beautiful when it's intentional, not when it's really obvious that it's only there because the designer couldn't find a way to make it go away - but even with that in mind this is the worst of the lot.

[doctorboost]

iPhone 13 mini

If/when people start selling them for parts because internal display has broken then I'll buy one. The external display is the same 5.4 inches that the iPhone 13 mini has.

[Annihilator]

On the plus side... TouchID!

They've snuck in that it's debuting with TouchID. I don't *hate* FaceID, but TouchID is waaaay more user friendly for the contactless payment experience.

What's hilarious is they've consistently claimed that FaceID is more secure than TouchID, and so won't be switching back... Until now.

The other thing they've seemingly done is perfect the "hidden camera" under the screen. Yes it's existed on Android devices before, but hasn't really worked very well.

Let's be honest though - that transition effect between front screen and inner screen is glorious.

[DrXym]

Apple now copying Samsung

When Samsung first launched the Samsung Galaxy phone, Apple were throwing sueballs around because it aped their own iPhone design. And now Apple are copying Samsung. This "passport" folding phone is basically just a Z Fold 8 with rounder corners.

I'm sure fools with more money than sense love these folding phones no matter who makes them. Who cares if they're basically e-waste - got to have the latest and greatest thing.

[Excused Boots]

Re: Apple now copying Samsung

Other than Samsung, a number of other manufacturers have released very similar looking phones in the past few months. So tell me, do you seriously believe that Apple ‘copied’ the Z-Fold 8, designed, prototyped and manufactured a clone in the couple of weeks since it launched.

Is it not more likely that Samsung et. al. had some insights as to what Apple was planning and rushed their own versions out first?

[DrXym]

Re: Apple now copying Samsung

Samsung has been making folding phones in a variety of form factors for years now. And as bad as I think folding phones are, I think it rather more likely Apple copied Samsung. Also to be fair, the Pixel Fold and Oppo had been playing with more squat form factors before that.

But all this is beside the point. The reality is Samsung was there first and then a virtually identical phone shows up from Apple.

[Charlie Clark]

Re: Apple now copying Samsung

No, it's not more likely that Samsung rushed to the market: it was instrumental in developing the technology needed for folding phones. Just like it did with AMOLED screens – my Samsung Wave had one in 2010, at least 5 years before Apple decided it was something worth looking at. What Apple does tend to get right is the whole package, especially software. It also has huge purchasing power for getting good deals from suppliers so it's possible to assume that while Samsung sold its first foldables at little more than cost, Apple has is maintaining margins of around 50%. And many customers will be happy with this: I've been using Macs for around twenty years and would agree with many that the ARM-based ones are the best development machines out there. But I've never wanted to own an I-Phone.

[hammarbtyp]

"takes a step backwards by ditching FaceID for a TouchID button embedded in the side button. "

Not sure it is a step backward. Depends on whether you see it as a larger phone or a smaller ipad, but FaceID is a pain on an ipad, since it is rarely pointing at my face when I turn it on, more often its flat on the desk.

TouchId makes more sense in those scenarios

[NXM]

target market

I can think of one group of people who might buy this: women. My better half constantly complains her phone won't fit in her stylish tiny-pocketed jeans. Ones with bigger pockets are ruled out on the grounds that they've got a higher waist and are more expensive. So folding phones could be useful there.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: target market

All the stylish (Asian) women I know use the cross the body phone straps which treat the phone as a purse bag/case. Putting the phone in a pocket would negatively impact the lay of their outfits. Otherwise get her a runners arm phone pouch…

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: target market

So Apple could have saved $Bn in R&D by just paying some actress to make 'dad' cargo-shorts fashionable for women?

[Snow Hill Island]

"and takes a step backwards by ditching FaceID for a TouchID button embedded in the side button."

My old fairphone 4 unlocks faster using touch than my wife's iphone unlocks using faceID. My two daughters can also unlock my wife's phone using faceID because apparently they look a lot like her (The resemblance isn't *that* strong.... they have cheaper SE phones, so sadly we can't try unlocking their phones with her face.) .

I can't be the only person who thinks touch is better....?

[captain veg]

sacrilege

It's got (some) square corners! The sainted bones of Jobs must be gyrating at full speed.

-A.

[BebopWeBop]

I am not one of their targets (I would like to retain an iphone mini but sight just is not there without reading glasses), but iFixit had some comments on durability. They have not torn one down, but it seems a reasonable set of conclusions until otherwise proven

https://www.ifixit.com/News/119205/will-the-iphone-duo-be-repairable-were-skeptical

[Anonymous Coward]

Steve Jobs

Would Steve have allowed this to be made i wonder ?

[Charlie Clark]

Re: Steve Jobs

Yes, but I think he would have done it sooner.

[trevorde]

OMG!!!

Apple have invented the folding phone! Just like they invented virtual+augmented reality goggles. Can't wait until they invent smart AR glasses. /s

[Excused Boots]

I am genuinely, genuinely interested in knowing - why this almost knee-jerk hatred of Apple? Why, it seems, uniquely Apple?

I don’t see such visceral condemnation of Samsung, Huawei, or others.

Despite what is often stated, Apple has never, ever claimed to have invented the MP3 player, the smart phone, smart watches, VR goggles or, indeed folding phones. What they do claim is that they think they have done it better, have made a better product, that works better for people. Otherwise that’s people putting words into their mouth.

I’m going to make a prediction, something that the neigh-sayers will hate but I suspect will come true - the iPhone Duo will outsell every other foldable phone on the market by a lot and it will massively boost the market share of foldables up from the current 1.6% of sales. Like it or not (and I suppose many will not), Apple will make them mainstream.

And, to answer a question above, yes, I absolutely think that Steve Jobs would absolutely have allowed this to be made. Why not, now that the technology exists to make it viable with far fewer compromises?

[A. Nervosa]

History Repeating

You've pretty much answered your own question by demonstrating logic, understanding, inquisitiveness and, most of all, maturity.

[araczynski]

I am almost convinced that Apple determines the price of all their products by using some secret percentage calculation based solely on the average san francisco market/tech company employee salary. Everyone else can F off and buy that peasant S that runs Windows/Android/Chrome/Ford/etc.

[Anonymous Coward]

Meh

Take my iPod Classic (with upgraded SD card).

Now THAT’S a useful device!

[Fruit and Nutcase]

iBall

Apple should leave the crowd behind and switch to a new form factor - a sphere.

Now you too could be like that fortune teller at the fair using a crystal ball, by gazing into the iBall, to read your email and browse the net

[45RPM]

It looks very nice.

How much?

Ah. No. Not for me.

And, actually, I prefer (and have considerable nostalgia for) Apple’s original Duo. Ahh, nubus. Ah, 68881. Happy days.