Debian votes to let contributors code with AI

The Debian community has voted to allow members to use generative AI when creating their contributions, with the caveat that developers remain responsible for code quality. The Linux distro’s community recently decided to develop a policy on use of AI-assisted coding tools, and asked participants to vote on one of eight …

[vekkq]

So, does this have to be written on Debian packaging now, due to EU AI law?

[Jason Bloomberg]

My reading of Article 50 is it would not require notification that AI was used in the development of code.

That Article refers to transparency "when AI interacts directly with people, when AI generates synthetic content, when AI is used for emotion recognition or biometric categorisation, and when AI creates deepfakes or text published on matters of public interest".

There may be other EU AI law I am not aware of.

As to developers not having to declare use of AI - I would have thought it would be useful to make that declaration compulsory, if only to gain metrics on whether AI aided contributions are useful or cause more problems than they are worth.

[Anonymous Coward]

when AI generates synthetic content or text published on matters of public interest

It seems to me that all AI generated content is synthetic, and the Debian kernel is most definitely a matter of public interest.

[WSWS]

Re: when AI generates synthetic content or text published on matters of public interest

Are you being deliberately obtuse, or do you really not understand what "content" means in this context?

[TVU]

Re: when AI generates synthetic content or text published on matters of public interest

I fully agree with you about the Debian kernel being a matter of public interest given all the downstream distributions that are based on Debian.

If a kernel contributor uses AI then I would prefer if that was made known and if any deleterious AI kernel contributions are made then the contributor ought to be suspended/banned.

[williamyf]

Considering the increased AI usage that Linus Torvals and Greg K-H are making inside the Linux kernel, would be funny to see "Hard-Line non-AI" [b]Linux[/b] distros forking the last Non-AI Non-LTS* Kernel and developing from scratch security patches, bug fixes and new hardware, without ever again looking into the source of AI infused Linux...

And doing that for all other "AI-Friendly" projectas as well (or choosing only Hard-Line non-AI FOSS projects only).

Good luck with that endeavour.

* It has to be a non-LTS, lest some AI developed patches find their way into the non-AI distro.

[BoHu]

Proposal H sounded better to me: “LLM usage accelerates the destruction of our ecosystem (planet Earth) and that is a deal-breaker”! ;(

[David 132]

FTA: "Just under 600 people voted, but Debian’s election team rejected many for unspecified reasons..."

With my cynical hat on, I wonder if those "unspecified reasons" were along the lines of "didn't support the election team's pre-determined position".

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm Questioning 'the Six Hundred'

Out of thousands of developers working on Debian, only six hundred bothered to vote on this contentious issue?!

Was there some sort of filtering requirement before devs were allowed to vote?

And throwing out one-quarter of those votes, "for unspecified reasons" smacks of dirty politics.

[frankvw]

Re: I'm Questioning 'the Six Hundred'

Perhaps the rejected votes were suspected as coming from an AI...

[CountCadaver]

Re: I'm Questioning 'the Six Hundred'

Or copy and pasted

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: I'm Questioning 'the Six Hundred'

Or, you could just look at the vote tally/stats.

76 votes failed GPG checks

61 votes failed to fill out the ballot correctly

[Flat Phillip]

Re: I'm Questioning 'the Six Hundred'

This is normal for Debian voting. People forget to sign their email, they use the wrong/old key or just GPG is finnicky. Also with 9 options it's (somewhat) easy to duplicate a number which is also an invalid vote. There also would have been plenty "I like this, I hate those" type votes, which may have looked like 123499999 which is not a valid vote.

None of that screams some giant conspiracy to me.

As to why only 600 votes for all developers? There would be a lot of "don't care" votes, and quite a few in the "I'll get round to it.. oh it's over" camp too. I voted this time around, but equally I could have missed the deadline.

Also its for Debian software specifically. I'm not sure of the exact percentage, but it means this vote covers a tiny proportion of the software Debian packages. That limits the scope, that also limits for some the care factor for some.

[VoiceOfTruth]

Re: I'm Questioning 'the Six Hundred'

>> Out of thousands of developers working on Debian, only six hundred bothered to vote on this contentious issue?!

Just over 1,000 developers were eligible to vote. So not *thousands*.

[WSWS]

Re: I'm Questioning 'the Six Hundred'

Just because *you* think it is contentious does not obliged other people to agree with that opinion.

[Arkitekt]

Cool. Off to find a new flavor of linux.

[stiine]

then what?

Surely you don't trust IBM, do you? I guess you're migrating to BSD.

[steelpillow]

Quite the reverse, IMHO. Good no-brainer decision. Restores my long-lost faith in the Debian community, to at least some extent; they have had a poor track record with no-brainers over the last few years.

[blu3b3rry]

For what is supposed to be a stable, solid distro...

....it seems like a fair misstep to let AI crap even within a sniff of it.

Yes, devs may be responsible for the bot's output, but I can see any reviewers' workload getting far bigger.

[Will Godfrey]

Makes me feel rather uneasy

I run a derivative of debian, and am now wondering if I should consider findind a different one.

[Kurgan]

Re: Makes me feel rather uneasy

There is no Linux without AI. There is no anything without AI.

[steelpillow]

Re: Makes me feel rather uneasy

You get AI in the kernel, but don't want it anywhere else. Maybe you should be looking at a BSD, then.

[frankvw]

Luddites...

I have always found the Deb devs to be a sensible bunch. Following this decision, I still do. Why? Because I often disagree vehemently with Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols, but sometimes he is entirely correct.

[Dan 55]

Re: Luddites...

But are you using the word "luddite" for the right reasons? If anyone called me a luddite, I'd be quite happy about it.

[WSWS]

Re: Luddites...

If someone called *me* a terrorist I would be quite annoyed. Strange that you aren't.

[Dan 55]

Re: Luddites...

That's because you don't know the real meaning of Luddite.

[Pete 2]

Name change?

So will the project now become DebAIn?

[steelpillow]

Re: Name change?

AIn't it th' truth!

[Cubbie Roo]

Sounds like the abstentions & spoilt ballots were in the majority, not a good sign moving forward.

[Pete 2]

Well, at least they voted to take the responsible course of action.

Option 5 "Responsible Use of Generative AI"

Even if that was a minority view.

[VoiceOfTruth]

There is a good lesson here: spoilt ballots do not count for anything.

[Anonymous Coward]

There was an interesting and somewhat hidden feature of the voting system - the "do not use AI" option would have called for a change in their core constitution requiring a 2/3rds majority. This was not made clear unless you were really looking for it, but it meant the vote was more performative than meaningful. If that option had won, it is very unlikely that it would have hit 2/3rds of all votes on the ballot and within the rules they could have ignored it.

[Groo The Wanderer - A Canuck]

It is the only rational option; Debian has no control over what upstream projects accept for their code, and it would kind of go against the whole idea of "sharing the code" to just reject projects outright because they choose to use or support a tool, project, or product you don't like. That furor is all on you!

[Anonymous Coward]

Too soon to tell.

The real test is when someone allows some AI slop in, it screws the pooch and they either

- pay the cost

or

- get off

What I don't want is the usual "Heads we win, tails you lose" settlement where no one is ever to blame.

[O'Reg Inalsin]

Re: Too soon to tell.

Someone who does that likely wouldn't bother to disclose if it were required.

[hri]

As a home Linux hobby-user I've long considered Debian as the ultimate fall-back from Canonicals' Ubuntu. When various commercializing Ubuntu tricks get too obnoxious I can retire to a secure familiar OS environment. Debian ... 1st with GNOME3, then SYSD & now with *.AI is itself retiring as a fall-back choice. Allow a metaphor: not all trout streams need to be catch & release "dry fly" only fishing waters ... I like a streamer or bugbear & panfry as well as the next guy ... but I pray part of my license fee goes to maintaining those few for the days that Royal-Coachman cast just wants to snap !

[steelpillow]

Dry-fly humour? Better a Dunne than a Royal Coachman, IMHO.

[steelpillow]

Forgot to say: try Devuan with MATE: no SystemD or GNOME3, AI from the kernel anywway so either go BSD instead or grab a download now and wait until AIs produce less slop than humans do (which is unlikely to be very long).

[Dan 55]

I have no doubt it will produce higher quality slop in the fulness of time... at a price that will make it unattractive for most customers and unviable for most AI corps.

[klh]

I've been hearing how the autocomplete will produce better slop for the past 3 years. The only thing increasing is the amount of it we are being buried under.