Flock surveillance backlash mounts as fiendish Halloween plans circulate

Surveillance tech company Flock has struggled with its public image for years, but the problem has become particularly acute in recent weeks. Its network of ALPRs has long attracted criticism over mass surveillance and the retention of location data belonging to motorists who are not suspected of any offense. Days after its CEO …

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally, a valid use for an AR15?

[Throatwarbler Mangrove]

Very useful when you have 30-50 feral Flock cameras in your neighborhood.

[Anonymous Coward]

Please don't.

Flock cameras are installed at a height that would require aiming upwards. Unless the camera is adjacent to a large enough uninhabited area, that's a high risk of injury or damage from any missed shots, deflected shots, or shrapnel from the hardware.

Now, if the camera was safely taken down with the use of a battery powered reciprocating saw, and was relocated to a suitable location with a proper backstop, then an AR-15 may be very suitable!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm in the UK and just tormenting the septics, there's no chance of me owning anything capable of shooting at a Flock camera if we even had them here.

[cmdrklarg]

**** tormenting the septics

I don't want to know what you might be eating that would make your #2's that bad.

[Dan 55]

Taco Bell lettuce.

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh dear.

"septics" = "Septic Tanks" = "Yanks" = "US Citizens"

And no, I wouldn't shit on them.

[cmdrklarg]

Ah! Being an ignorant USian I hadn't made it past the second '=' in your equation. I had assumed something like a misspelled "skeptics".

I are more edumacated now!

[Anonymous Coward]

Can’t you buy an airsoft pistol and fill with paint?

[M.V. Lipvig]

That would do little beyond requiring a bit of cleaning. Now if something with the word "etching" were made into paintballs you'd have something.

[JohnMurray]

We..

..have ANPR.

The system also allows other high-quality video sources, such as fuel station forecourt cameras/supemarket cameras/etc to be used!

There are also many, many more video cameras around and in practically all towns.

Look up at lamp-posts, many in my town feature video cameras, I have counted upwards of 100 in my town alone.

Check this out - https://www.wcctv.co.uk/products/redeployable-cctv/

[that one in the corner]

Re: We..

The UK is ridiculously heavily surveilled and has been for years now.

Something that is so normalised in our TV cop shows that we don't even need to have impossible "I can enhance that" scenes anymore, just "I'll send uniform round to pick up all the other camera angles".

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: We..

> "I'll send uniform round to pick up all the other camera angles".

Which I have always thought was fair enough. I see a world of difference between going out to collect whatever evidence there may be after a crime and living in an always-on surveillance state.

[martinusher]

Re: We..

These days sending someone around for a tape is definitely Old School. All the cameras should be cloud connected and with the appropriate blanket court orders in place you can just reach in and grab a copy of what you want before anyone else realizes they need it.

(One of the neat tricks you can do with multiple video sources is knit them together into a 3D whole.)

[ICL1900-G3]

Re: We..

If you've nothing to hide... whatever...

[RegGuy1]

Re: We..

I offer exhibit A, your honour: ‘A guy did a runner in a Jaguar’: the petrol theft scandal – and the garage owner struggling to stop it

Since the start of the Iran war in February, there has been a 23% rise in fuel theft, with more than £1.2m stolen from British forecourts each week. Why aren’t the police doing more to apprehend the culprits?

And later in the piece: Regardless of how unpaid fuel is taken from his forecourt, Parekh says when he has reported incidents to the police, they often tell him “it’s a civil thing”.

[HereIAmJH]

Re: We..

I'm surprised this particular crime hasn't disappeared entirely. In the US you either have to pre-authorize with your credit card or actually pre-pay for your fuel. Anybody complaining about 'drive-offs' simply hasn't updated their tech for 30 years.

[Anonymous Coward]

What do you mean "If we even had them here?"

https://deflock.org/

They're everywhere. Look at the map. Those are just the ones people have reported.

[Anonymous Coward]

It would appear outside of the US has been removed from that map. Interesting.

Anyway, when I was last able to see a flock map with the UK cameras on it, there were 8000+ cameras in the UK.

Flock cameras get installed all over the place, as do other AI cameras...usually they go in under the guise of a traffic camera near a school or the entrance to a supermarket car park...they sound harmless enough when they're discussed, but they record everything and usually they cover the flow of traffic along a road in both directions.

There's a couple of new ones going up near me on the main road that leads to the motorway.

I would bet that it's basically impossible to get outside the M25 now without being caught on some kind of ANPR camera that is part of a network....and you will have been tracked through your whole journey to get there.

[Anonymous Coward]

Except, Flock don't operate outside the US.

You may have seen other ANPR camera, you've not seen a Flock camera in the UK.

[Anonymous Coward]

Flock only operate inside the land of the free, they do not operate outside the US.

The UK has it's own surveillance state but it's significantly more secure than that of the US and stalkers, wife beaters etc can't access it on a whim.

[Cliffwilliams44]

And no chance of you ever defending yourself against your Fascist overlords!

[Anonymous Coward]

Paintball Gun anybody??

On Halloween lets drive around and paint the flock out of them with Pumpkin Orange paint balls. Though I do note a global shortage in Pumpkin Orange due to the demands to re-coat the great reflecting one..

[khjohansen]

I don't know anything about cameras*

According to several researchers on "a video platform", It seems a circular saw will cut an aluminum pole faster than a reciprocating saw!

*legal deniability

[retiredFool]

Re: I don't know anything about cameras*

I think true. I had a fence replaced maybe 10 years ago now and they used metal poles. The guy asked if I wanted the tops of the poles cut level or sticking up. I said that sounds like a lot of trouble to cut thru those steel poles. He goes no problem, whips out this little circular saw thing maybe 1.5" wheel and cuts thru it like a hot knife thru butter. He did dozens in minutes. Somehow silly me was expecting a hacksaw, which would have taken me probably 15 minutes a pole.

[Doctor Syntax]

"It kills me that she went through that," he told CBS News in an interview

Not literally.

But given that it's in the US somebody might well make it so.

[VoiceOfTruth]

They should have set up in the UK

The surveillance state is very welcoming.

[theOtherJT]

Re: They should have set up in the UK

I do keep wondering why we tolerate it when other countries push back so hard. I'm pretty sick of the idea that someone needs to be watching our every move every second of the day.

This is how you end up with SCORPION STARE I tells ye.

...I mean, probably not, we're short on computational daemonologists, but still. Nothing good comes of this in the long run.

[HereIAmJH]

Re: They should have set up in the UK

One question you should be asking is how they are using the video that those cameras capture. That is a huge part of the problem with Flock. Primarily Flock is capturing pictures and storing them. Not a huge big brother concern, we've had surveillance cameras for decades. But then they take AI, interrogate the pictures and build a searchable database. So now, instead of just video of you at the local shopping center that no one will see unless there is a crime, they can track you everywhere you pass a Flock camera. It becomes; could they now track you from New York to Los Angeles as you road trip across the nation?

I read an article yesterday about a county that has installed Flock cameras, and a recent audit showed 3 million queries between Jan 2025 and June 2026. Something like 6000 queries per day from outside agencies. The county itself has run 6000 queries since June 2026. About 80 per day. And they have been storing the data for 90 days.

My first problem is transparency. My city has been quietly deploying Flock cameras, and no one knew about it until recently when they planned to install a camera at the city pool. They decided against it, once word got out, because 'think of the children' and pervy pictures. No plans to remove any of the ALPRs. I went back to January and not one mention of the cameras in the Board of Alderman meeting minutes or Safety Committee. So far I have been unable to find the approval for the contract with Flock, which should have had a public BOA vote. The BOA has to approve contracts for new police cars and street resurfacing, but not a surveillance network? And who really knows that when you set a retention date on the data, does Flock really delete it. Or have they aggregated it into another database, or simply run it to archival backups that never get purged. What if they decide to monetize it and your daily movements start showing up on those people search sites?

So in the case where much of the surveillance is pedestrian and not vehicle, are they using AI to catalog your activities? Facial recognition. Personal style or body movements. Identifying you as an unknown individual until it can be cross referenced to personally identify you. Enabling the government the ability to track you using private surveillance networks.

[Pascal Monett]

Re: My city has been quietly deploying Flock cameras

And that is the real problem. Deciding to install such technology behind closed doors.

And the decision was made and approved by your own elected officials, not by the orange shitgibbon.

No wonder democracy is going straight to hell these days . . .

[retiredFool]

Re: They should have set up in the UK

I think the problem is it sounds good in theory, but the execution can never be good, because well, humans gonna be humans. There will be stalking, there will be perves getting those photos, there will be bad actors. Impossible to stop. And even if perfect, we still haven't fixed the problem also widely reported that sometimes the wrong plate number ends up getting on the hot list and some poor soul gets stopped with guns ablaze. I've read multiple stories about this. So again it is human nature. "Perfect" computer system id's a "bad" guy in a vehicle and officers respond "knowing" it is the guy they want. So its ok if the perp gets shot. Similar to stories I've seen here on face recognition systems that id'ed the wrong guy in a store at checkout as a shoplifter.

[VoiceOfTruth]

Re: They should have set up in the UK

It is because the British are conditioned to be serfs. The road to democracy in the UK is not complete. We have an unelected king and unelected house of lords. We have an established church, despite its woeful attendance. British passports until relatively recently had the words "British Subject" on them. That tells you how the establishment thinks about actual citizenry.

[Elongated Muskrat]

Re: They should have set up in the UK

We also have better data protection laws than the US, where they consist of "got some data, want to sell it? Go ahead!"

[RegGuy1]

Re: They should have set up in the UK

Ah yes, the UK General Data Protection Regulation.[1] Interesting that the link points to Regulation (EU) 2016/679 of the European Parliament and of the Council. Luckily we were still a member when they thought of this. Phew.

[1] It was and remains a UK law; like all EU law, it is enacted into domestic law. So while we have lost oversight of the ECJ, at least we have some semblance of EU legislation remaining.

[Elongated Muskrat]

Re: They should have set up in the UK

Even before GDPR, we had the DPA which basically said*, "you can't sell people's personal information for profit," thus already putting us lightyears ahead of the US.

*with a very heavy dose of paraphrasing, admittedly.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: They should have set up in the UK

The problem isn't a lack of elected government officials.

The unelected Lords ended slavery and introduced the thought that if two guys want to be together then that's no-one else's business.

The elected Commons are power grabbing back-stabbers who dedicated their loves to the pursuit of more power. They've gutted their checks and balances in the name of 'democracy'.

[Jason Bloomberg]

Re: They should have set up in the UK

We have an unelected king and unelected house of lords

You think an elected president, an elected upper chamber, and let's throw in elected judges, will make things better?

That's just propaganda from the control freaks, authoritarians and fascists who seek total control.

Total control by a minority is not democracy.

There are issues which need to be addressed but the solution is not dictatorship.

[DoctorPaul]

Re: They should have set up in the UK

Two words: President Thatcher

[Francis Boyle]

The US does have a King

It's called the almighty dollar and Trump is its earthy avatar.

[CrazyOldCatMan]

Re: They should have set up in the UK

we're short on computational daemonologists

[Secret Civil Service Mode = On]

That's what we want you to think. How else do you explain Boris?

[Paul Herber]

Re: They should have set up in the UK

"Flock surveillance"

I've heard about watching paint dry, but watching wallpaper?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: They should have set up in the UK

1984 was a warning, not a manual

[ShadowDragon8685]

Re: They should have set up in the UK

So was The Handmaid's Tale, but... Here we friggin' are.

[just4this]

Future suspect

Wanted for camera vandalism

https://wallpapercave.com/wp/wp4687966.jpg

[Anonymous Coward]

Abuse by authorities?

Come now.

The land of the free would never permit that!

[MacroRodent]

Privatised Big Brother

Surreal that the Telescreens of "1984" are run by private companies.

[that one in the corner]

Re: Privatised Big Brother

Ahem, I believe you will find that should have been

> Privatised Big Brother®

> Surreal that the Telescreens™ of "1984"© are run by private companies

Please apply to Blair Holdings, Inc (a subsidiary of Disney*), for a licence to use these terms in your next comment.

* Now you're scared!

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Privatised Big Brother

Isn't all of America run by the companies? Flock and the rest are doing what comes naturally.

Even if the real "smart tv" Telescreens are made in Korea, Japan and, of course, China.

[Tron]

Weird.

If a private company spied on the general public online, without terms and conditions accepted or clicking to OK it, it would be spyware and a crime.

But in real life, apparently it is legal.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Re: Weird.

The difference is that - in the US at least - in meatspace, you have no expectation of privacy outside of, well, private places where a person reasonably expects privacy. You cannot object to someone clapping eyes upon you when you're in the street, for example, or in the dining room of a restaurant.

You also cannot object to a permanent record of you in that place being made - IE, a photograph. It's a public place. Your presence there is public information at the time and the place you were present in public-not-private, QED.

The problem, of course, is that when those records are being made nonstop, hooked up to systems that they ought not be hooked up to, and made available to query by powerful and shady organizations, you get something FAR MORE SINISTER AND FRIGHTENING than "no, you may not demand that the person who took a photograph of their holiday in which you happened to appear destroy their film."

[CrazyOldCatMan]

Re: Weird.

The difference is that - in the US at least - in meatspace, you have no expectation of privacy

Same (largely) in the UK [0]. There are exceptions for specific privacy violations (things like upskirting) but, in general, companies & councils are free to put up cameras. They have to prominently [1] display a notice to say they have done so but, other than that, it's all fair game.

For private individuals it's a bit more nuanced and I can't remember all the details (and they've probably changed in the five years since I looked into it).

[0] After all, the US common law is (I believe) based on English common law so it's hardly surprising.

[1] The lawyers *love* language like that since there's apparently no established legal definition..

[Jellied Eel]

Re: Weird.

The difference is that - in the US at least - in meatspace, you have no expectation of privacy outside of, well, private places where a person reasonably expects privacy. You cannot object to someone clapping eyes upon you when you're in the street, for example, or in the dining room of a restaurant.

It seems like you do. This video-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOfK-w6mSnw

Goes over some of the legal issues and mentions a Supreme Court decision where the FBI bugged a public telephone box being used by a person involved in illegal gambling. SC ruled the surveillance unlawful and there can be a reasonable expectation of privacy, even in a public place. Problem is technology and the people flogging surveillance tech are pushing the boundaries faster than the law can keep up. It also touches on the mosaic problem. So licence plates are public and state property, so reading them isn't a privacy issue per se. Using ANPR to detect unregistered or uninsured vehicles isn't necessarily a problem, and legislators made laws that LEAs are expected to enforce.

Problem arises when ANPR data is combined with 'AI' that can then track journeys and combined with other data, and then tramples all over any reasonableness or expectation of privacy. Especially when Flock is in the business of making money and flogging the data to anyone. Flock may set retention to 7 days, but once exported, Flock has no control over it. Which is also-

...a nod to ICE agents accessing police Flock systems without a dedicated contract.

What is Flock concerned about? ICE using their system, or ICE using it without buying a contract first?

And..

Flock will also require customers to enable its existing Audit Assistance feature by year-end. The tool detects unusual search activity and flags it for review. It is currently optional but will become mandatory by year-end, having been "associated with arrests of several law enforcement officers who allegedly abused the system."

Flock said more than a third of customers have voluntarily opted in to Audit Assistance so far.

Which is a policy issue. So who can access Flock, and how that's audited. No crime reference number? No access to historical data, and should Flock's Audit Assistance feature be trusted? But I think the biggest problem is although LEOs might be arrested, fired, jailed for misusing official systems.. Other Flock customers might not be bothered. Council or HOA worker gets a bit nosy and nothing much might happen. Especially when people have been using Flock data to track ICE and other LEO activity. Criminals may pay big money for an ability to detect and track say, unmarked vehicles leaving police garages.

The problem, of course, is that when those records are being made nonstop, hooked up to systems that they ought not be hooked up to, and made available to query by powerful and shady organizations, you get something FAR MORE SINISTER AND FRIGHTENING.

AlphaGoo is waay ahead of you on that one. There's justification for LEAs having surveillance powers, but far less for data rapists like Google. And Europe is way ahead of the US with black boxes being mandatory for new vehicles, and coming soon, cameras and microphones that can monitor driver and passengers. Or an amusing one, fitting breath interlock devices as well. Not sure if that will be combined with making the selling of canned air illegal as well to avoid a simple defeat mechanism.

[Elongated Muskrat]

Misappropriation?

"It kills me that she went through that," he told CBS News in an interview, less than two weeks after The Washington Post published a story highlighting 46 cases involving US police officers abusing their access to Flock's system. Some allegedly involved officers abusing that power to stalk women.

No, mate. It doesn't kill you. Stalking, however, does create a real risk of women being murdered by their stalkers. Around 5,000 women are murdered in the US every year, and in a third of those cases, the perpetrator is an "intimate partner" or former partner; these are the most likely to become stalkers.

So no. No, it doesn't kill you, it kills the women who are the victims of stalking, facilitated by your creepy tech. Don't appropriate their victimhood you absolute weapon.

[retiredFool]

Misunderstood

I saw a spot with the guy who runs flock. The usual "we are just misunderstood". Creepy guy btw. Reminded me of the mayor when his precious massive bond package failed, he blamed it on messaging. We failed to tell the voters why its needed and necessary. No stupid, the citizens didn't want what YOU were selling. In high school my school did West Side Story, and I thought there was a line from one of the ne'er do well'ers that went something like "Officer crumpkie, we're just misunderstood". Politicians and business people have adopted the approach from the musical.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know who needs to know this

I'm going to post a few random, unrelated items.

- A 2 gallon tank is the size of two milk jugs.

- Historically, diesel fuel and Dawn have been mixed together into a gel.

- A drone has a low lift capacity using 4 or 6 motors.

- Multiple drones can be cannibalized, and attached to a can the size of 2 milk jugs, increasing the payload.

- One drone controller can run multiple drone motors if arrayed like the donor drone.

- A car wash wand is metal and can spray either gel or foam.

- A small propane torch with a canister can be used for remote ignition.

- A gel pump can be triggered remotely.

- Flock cameras have a relatively low melting point, and it would not take much to destroy beyond repair

[Francis Boyle]

That sounds like

The Purge done right.