NASA boss balks at billion-dollar estimate for recycled Moon rover

NASA Administrator Jared Isaacman has stated "we simply will not fly it" if claims about the costs of the repurposed Mars rover engineering model prove anywhere near accurate. Isaacman was responding to the Planetary Society's chief of space policy, Casey Dreier, who had run the numbers on his plan to send a robot to the Moon, …

[Paul Herber]

"recycled Moon ... repurposed Mars"

Are Keith and Bruno going to accept this? I think for Keith they might have to dig deep ...

[Anonymous Coward]

At least Keith is already high…

[midgepad]

you might think some generic assemblies

could be produced in modest quantities rather than single ad hocs.

Getting it down to Lego blocks and making transportation the main expense would seem desirable.

[Giles C]

Re: you might think some generic assemblies

All these rovers need some common components

Wheels and drive mechanisms should be common (maybe different seals, tyres) but an electric motor is still common to both as are springs / shocks

Steering simple rack and pinion should suffice and most cars have had electric power steering for the last 15 years.

Chassis box girder is simple to use if you need it bigger add longer girders

There is your basic platform now the instrument pack will be different, but the driving computer should be an off the shelf unit.

To an outsider it looks like if it was done before then we need to redesign it.

[richardcox13]

Re: you might think some generic assemblies

Wheels and drive mechanisms should be common (maybe different seals, tyres) but an electric motor is still common to both as are springs / shocks

If these were mass produced, and the mechanical requirements sufficiently understood this could be true. But neither are. Eg. one of the rovers was found to have tyre problems: one of the surfaces had lead to damage.

There are very few such vehicles built, each one is going somewhere new. Each will encounter conditions not previously experienced.

The simple approach of "make more robust" fails when mass is extremely constrained. Every gram put into a better spring, is one gram less for the science.

[Steve K]

Re: you might think some generic assemblies

I don't think it's quite that simple wehn comparing equipment for different destinations.

An electric motor destined for the Moon and one for Mars (or Titan for tha matter) will have to deal with differing thermal conditions once on the surface.

That might mean that internal components/lbearings/ubricants etc. are actually quite different.

[Peter Gathercole]

Re: you might think some generic assemblies

Also, the moon is a vacuum, whereas Mars has at least some atmosphere. Probably makes a difference to any lubricants.

The type of dust that the rovers need to cope with will also be a lot different. Moon dust is generally more abrasive and settles differently when kicked up, as there is no atmosphere to wear it down or carry/scatter it.

Plus, gravity is stronger on Mars.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: you might think some generic assemblies

Perhaps they should send it to JSC instead of the Smithsonian Shuttle ??

—

If they asked BYD or Geely to make a Moon Rover EV, it will probably come in at £39,995 ‘fully loaded’ - Inc vehicle to load and a banging sound system - in a 7 seater model.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: you might think some generic assemblies

But it'll rely on an app that is discontinued / abandoned two weeks before launch

[bernmeister]

Re: you might think some generic assemblies

There might be a shread of thuth there. 1 billion does sound like a lot of cash to modify an existing rover. Perhaps Elon Musk could be invited to give a quote.

[Steve K]

Re: you might think some generic assemblies

"Perhaps Elon Musk could be invited to give a quote"

"Concerning, if true"

[Henry Wertz 1]

Yeah not a win

Yeah. That cost sounds far too high, it does seem like something could be put together from scratch for far less.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Yeah not a win

Simply put, the people who built the test beds didn't factor in a life on the lunar surface in addition to their useful working life on earth. To be sure there is enough life left in them, and make adaptations for the harse lunar environment is a big job, and it would be easier to build a new rover than dot all the i's and cross all the t's when checking the worn parts of these two rovers

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Yeah not a win

Get Kia, BYD, Geely to make it.

7 year warranty, 8 year battery. Finance on offer:

[NoneSuch]

Reassemble the team that put the Voyager probes together. Bit on the grey side by now, but by God they made hardware that lasts.

[bernmeister]

Classic

They used TTL 7400 devices on Voyager. Bomb proof and easy to design.

[frankvw]

If NASA spent less resources of coming up with cool sounding BACKRONYMS they might have a lot more room left in their budget.

[Peter Gathercole]

That's mostly as a result of chatter around the water cooler or coffee machine.

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Refurbish and reuse LRV

Produce a kit of parts to replace parts of the LRV - land near one of the abandoned LRVs, fit update kit (e.g. lithium batteries).

[Winkypop]

Re: Refurbish and reuse LRV

They thought of that but recent hi res imaging shows that someone (thing) has nicked the wheels.

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Refurbish and reuse LRV

But the LRV was an EV, can't have some woke hippy mobile representing 'Murica on the moon

Now you try building an F150 that can roll-coal in vacuum

[Bebu sa Ware]

Re: Refurbish and reuse LRV

Arthur Daley Motors^† can do you a deal on a mini moke retro·fitted with an e·scooter motor and battery, a solar panel on the roof. I would normally ask two grand but for you, and I am cutting my own throat, £1500 (plus VAT, delivery and MOT extra.)

_{† now wholly owned subsidary of Dibbler Transdimensional.}

[Fruit and Nutcase]

Cybertruck

Cheap, off the shelf.

one good thing is that there is no rain in the moon, so, the body won't get marked by raindrops

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Cybertruck

How does glue fare in space?

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Cybertruck

If it fails just return it to the dealer for warranty repair

[trevorde]

Re: Cybertruck

"Built for any planet"

[just4this]

MAGGIE

Mars Automated Giant Gizmo for Integrated Engineering

Fantastic acronym.

Now any issues with operation can legit be blamed on gremlins in the works.

Also naming one of your servers Gizmo is a good idea too. Computers are electronic gizmos and now…

I’m sure you’ve figured it out.

[Hurn]

Longer, Colder Nights, More Abrasive Dust...

Yeah, we all know that NASA tends to over-engineer things, which, bean-counter griping aside, is a good thing, but, just think about it: if the study to determine whether the existing hardware will (also) work on the Moon costs more than looking at existing moon specs (which are not new) and designing/building to Moon-spec instead of adapting from Mars-spec, then, where are the "savings"?

Why not do both?

Commission studies on:

How much to adapt existing hardware, and what are chances of failure

How much to make new hardware, and what are chances of failure

How much money is available, and what is the acceptable level of risk

Then realize all the money has already been spent on the studies, and end up doing nothing

You have to spend money to make save money

[Pete 2]

Estimates never go down

> billion-dollar estimate for recycled Moon rover

Things cost what people are willing or able to pay for them. If NASA was run the way India runs its space agency, I would not be surprised if the cost for the same kit was in the low 7-figures.

[Brewster's Angle Grinder]

Every complex problem has a solution which is simple, direct, plausible—and wrong. (AKA details matter.)

Normally you expect it to be the congressman with the dumb solution and the head of NASA who has to patiently refute it; not the other way around.

[fishman]

Using existing hardware

Remember those old space shuttle engines and booster designs just sitting around? You could just grab them and build a cheap rocket to send people to the moon with.

Yeah, that worked out well in terms of costs.

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe....the A Team?

Maybe they could have a generic chassis which they attach moon-bearing, and moon-wheels or Mars-bearings and Mars-wheels.

But I suspect the chassis is probably the least of their problems and they seem to have landed on a semi-generic model of a 6 wheeled rover of sorts anyway.

Maybe we should just leave it to the rocket scientists, I enjoy being an armchair expect as much as the next man but I know SFA about building rovers.

[eldakka]

"That said, it would be crazy not to take advantage of hardware taxpayers have already invested hundreds of millions of dollars in."

Careful, you are heading into sunk cost fallacy territory.