Openreach nudges another 112 exchange areas toward full fiber

Openreach has disclosed another tranche of locations where providers will be barred from selling legacy copper-based services to premises that can receive full fiber as it pushes customers toward newer digital connections. The wholesale arm of BT, Britain's former state-owned telecoms monopoly, Openreach announced the latest …

[elsergiovolador]

Fibre

^^ See title

[Blue Screen of Bleurgh]

Living out in the sticks of England have been stuck with BT and their standard fibre FTTC broadband for years, and all I see is slower speeds and rising prices, with no hope of OR upgrading our exchange to FF "for the foreseeable future"

Had to dump them and went with Starlink. Politics-aside with Musk, this was the only realistic option for superfast & stable broadband, even at their 100Mbps and 200Mbps lower tiers, with prices at around £40 - £60, the kind of prices I was paying with BT for a poxy 40Mbps (on a good day!)

[msage]

Seen the same here in rural Norfolk. Half our village can get FTTP, the other half can't, obviously I am in the half that can't! To really rub it in BT did some work outside the house and have put the equipment in for FTTP, openreach changed to available to order soon, got an email last week saying there was a problem and they now couldn't give us a date for FTTP and it was being moved back from available to order soon to no current estimate. I am lucky as I get around 50-60Mbps, so not moved to starlink, should leo come in at a reasonable price I will be off!

[Roland6]

>” Half our village can get FTTP, the other half can't,”

Remember that was by design. Back when the BDUK programme was started, deliberately only fibred (FTTC) sufficient parts of an exchange area so as to make it commercially unattractive to an alt-isp, like Gigaclear. Then took their time to complete and upgrade to FTTP…

My village suffered from this practise and made it non-viable for us to build our own ISP, so now OR is the only terrestrial option. (There was a period circa 2004~2016 when 2~5Mbps mobile broadband trumped the sub 1Mbps ADSL…)

[I could be a dog really]

Have any of you considered a bit of DIY ? If some houses can get a good fibre service, there are a number of way to get that to houses that don't.

[Darkedge]

had to go starlink as well, curse Elop

40mb would be amazing round here as max speed seems to be 15MBit ON A GOOD DAY.

Promised proper fibre in 2026 but then Openreach went nahh we'll get round to you later

[Doctor Syntax]

Also out in the sticks. FTTC speed is adequate for what I want.

A significant consideration here is that the analogue phone service is reliable, the electricity service is not. A digital phone service would be no more reliable than the electricity supply needed to operate it.

And, before you ask, yes the mobile phone gets a signal at home - on WiFi calling only.

[blu3b3rry]

Also in relative ruralshire, with FTTC. Normally around 70mbps but we're not an enormous distance from a few big business parks that demanded fast internet connections to the area. The village got to piggyback off that to an extent.

Currently the speeds are enough for what is effectively three sets of streaming. Downloads / uploads for larger files (say in the tens of gigabytes) aren't exactly whizzy but normally I'll just give that job to a spare PC and let it chug away for the few hours it takes.

If I go upstairs and stand in the right room I even get treated to the luxury of a 5G connection!

[Doctor Syntax]

A friend lives quite close to a mobile mast which must also have a fibre connection for the back-haul but her FTTC came from the same cabinet as mine but she lives on the opposite side of the valley about a mile further down towards the exchange. They finally gave up and got a cellular modem.

This whole mess is the main reason why I disliked the push for FTTP. Those who get a good FTTC service get FTTP if they want it while those who can't remain out in the cold. Either a universal provision of FTTC at acceptable speed should have been a prerequisite for allowing FTTP or else the new fibre rollout should have been to the areas that didn't have any.

[I could be a dog really]

You can provide a battery backup and make the service reliable. Either a UPS into which you plug the supplied power adapters for NTE and router, or if you're a bit technically savvy, supply 12V direct from a battery and use a float charger of sufficient capacity to do the AC-DC conversion all the time.

But a basic small UPS doesn't cost much to buy.

[ComicalEngineer]

Our village technically has fibre available, currently only via one small provider, with whom I refuse to deal because of their high pressure marketing techniques (emails, letters, texts and calls several times a week). They also have a poor reputation for reliability.

We are currently waiting for our current provider (with whom we have no issues) to be able to make a connection into the fibre network, even though the connection box is literally 10m from our house.

The whole fibre roll out to less populous locations has been shambolic and piecemeal with small companies installing fibre networks with a captive audience until access is granted to other providers at a considerably later point in time.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called running a business. They're not doing this roll out under the goodness of their hearts and neither are they obliged to. Unfortunately if you live in the harder to reach places then sometimes you wait longer.

[Anonymous Coward]

If the fibre is from someone other than openreach, they may have a 1-year exclusivity deal with the marketing company. Or they might not wholesale it via any other providers at all.

In the future they may or may not expand the ISPs available, but if your plan is to sit back and wait for your chosen provider to become available it's possible that you'll be waiting forever.

[Roland6]

BT originally had a 3 month sale exclusivity window on new OR fibre enablements, Sky were the first to get their marketing out when this expired. Obviously, at this point everyone who piggybacks on OR will be able supply FTTP.

(*) I assume EE, now they are BT’s retail service provider, now get this sales benefit.

[Mickey Porkpies]

1980's Infrastructure

still dragging on with copper (we paid for they rented) and slowly replacing with Fibre and NO not full fibre when it is Asynchronous but much like most Regulators Offcom supports business not consumers so we make do with 20 year old connections when Europe "full Fibred" decades ago. Business pad a fortune for lines for years until new modern infrastructure was installed. BT (when it owned Openreach) poured money away on crap ventures (Italy) and TV when it should have focussed on infrastructure and much like water we the customer end up funding the poor management,

[Phil O'Sophical]

Re: 1980's Infrastructure

Europe "full Fibred" decades ago

No, it didn't. Some smaller and densely-populated countries did, but by no means all, even in those countries where the telco is still state-owned.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: 1980's Infrastructure

"BT (when it owned Openreach) poured money away on crap ventures (Italy) and TV"

They were out of OFCOM's reach so were considered less trouble to run than running a regulated service. When manglement prefers things to be less trouble it's not hard to see where they're heading in the long run.

[FirstTangoInParis]

Still copper

So for FTTC the exchange connection isn’t fibre but that’s still a bunch of local copper to support. OR have no advertised clue when they’ll get round to doing away with that. So are Gov pushing OR or is it just when OR can be bothered?

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Still copper

With the switch to digital voice FTTC will still have copper from cabinet to premises but the copper from exchange to cabinet becomes redundant as does analogue in the exchange. The analogue signal is generated by a DAC in the premises. That needs power so unless you have a UPS (which, as we know, works until it's needed) you can't ring the electricity supplier to report a power cut.

[Roland6]

Re: Still copper

It is going to be interesting to see what use OR puts the old POTS cabinets to, once all the phones on a specific cabinet have moved to digital.

[Doctor Syntax]

Re: Still copper

If they're terminating the subscriber lines for FTTC then presumably they have to be left in place. But what happens to all the POTS cabling back to the exchange?

[David Hicklin]

Re: Still copper

> But what happens to all the POTS cabling back to the exchange?

Probably left in place in the ducts, at a guess it will be a rats nest of wired twisted around each other and not economical to pull it out

[I could be a dog really]

Re: Still copper

And a "business opportunity" for someone for whom the law on property ownership is "flexible"

[xyz123]

There's a simple answer to all this.

Make it so ISPS must charge 50% LESS for copper broadband than FTTP based.

They will start pushing openreach like crazy when it hits profits.

[the spectacularly refined chap]

No it would just create opposition to the upgrade process. For every "me want faster broadband" customer there is another that says "what we have is fine, why would I pay more?"

[AndrueC]

I think it's more than a 1:1 ratio. I reckon for every customer that wants FTTP there are probably half a dozen who don't care or know nothing about it. That might change when Freeview and Sky switch off their broadcast service but for now it's mostly only the technically knowledgeable who want FTTP.

[Roland6]

I think Virgin have the right approach, make it easy to upgrade. People like a bargain, so they love it when Virgin upgrades their broadband speed for “free” ie. They have separated the service speed upgrade from the subscription increase in customers minds.

[Doctor Syntax]

It's a subset of the technically knowledgeable as you have to exclude those of us who have an adequate FTTC service. OTOH you can include the "Ooh shiny" punters.

[AndrueC]

Good point. I upgraded to FTTP from FTTC just over a year ago and, frankly, it wasn't necessary. I was on a what was effectively 65/16 connection and it was more than adequate for what I needed. There's still not much that demands those kinds of speeds. Gamers will appreciate being able to burst to those levels or higher when downloading a game but otherwise you need a family with a couple of teenagers to stress out anything above 50Mb/s.

So I went with a 100/20 service which actually does offer those speeds. The faster upload is occasionally nice but really I only upgraded because I've long had an interest in residential internet connections and felt I was obliged to switch to the latest technology. It also saved me £4 a month though which was nice.

[David Hicklin]

Strange comment, I got cheaper broadband when I went PTTP (well probably the cabinet in the next street).

[Sproggit]

Only available for Single-Dwelling Structures

Bear in mind that Openretch [sic] have an internal company policy - this is not mandated anywhere in Project Gigabit, which is sponsoring a lot of the costs for the FTTP deployment - that Openreach will NOT connect up any property that it deems to be an "MDU".

That's a "Multiple Dwelling Unit" to you and me.

Which means that if you live in a block of flats, you won't be given FTTP and you won't even be given a date for when it *might* become available.

Friend of mine had full fibre installed down his road over a year ago - but because he lives in a large older house that's been converted to 2 flats, Openreach have refused to connect either property. All it needs is to drill a small hole in a wall, but they are refusing.

Meanwhile, BT cut the original 80/20 FTTC broadband down to 67/18 to cope with the extra load caused by COVID... but now they've massively increased their network capacity, they won't even restore copper customers to the previous 80/20 rates.

Bastards, the lot of 'em.

[AndrueC]

Re: Only available for Single-Dwelling Structures

Bear in mind that Openretch [sic] have an internal company policy - this is not mandated anywhere in Project Gigabit, which is sponsoring a lot of the costs for the FTTP deployment - that Openreach will NOT connect up any property that it deems to be an "MDU".

Please state your sources for this claim. Openreach (and other telcos) have difficulty dealing with MDUs for legal reasons.

I can believe that Openreach project managers cringe when they realise they have to deal with one or more MDUs but I don't believe they have any policy such as you are alluding to. MDUs complicate the process but Openreach appear to be doing what they can. They have already installed FTTP in probably thousands of MDUs but it can be a bit of arse and without changes to the legal framework impossible in some cases. The good news is that as that ISPreview article states the government is trying to change the law to help.

But blaming Openreach just because you don't like them isn't helpful. As far as I'm aware the problem is that Openreach's hands are often tied when it comes to MDUs.

[Sproggit]

Re: Only available for Single-Dwelling Structures

On November 20th, 2025, Bilal Akhtar of Openreach wrote to me concerning a UK property that I own; it is part of a leasehold apartment building where the freehold is owned by the leaseholders through a simple company structure.

The specific reference ID quoted to me by Bilal was QIS750618.

The claim put forward by Bilal was that Openreach had contacted the landlord for the property in question and requested permission to access the building in order to be able to deploy fibre cables to the 37 properties within the structure but stated that the landlord had declined to reply.

I *am* the landlord for the property, because I am the chairman of the Board of Directors for the Limited Company that owns the freehold [with each leaseholder owning one equal share. So I knew for a fact that Bilal was flat-out lying to me, because no attempt to contact me or the administrator/company secretary had been made. No paperwork had been left when Openreach deployed fibre to the road outside and no Openreach employee spoke with any resident.

After pointing out to Bilal that not only was the information he provided materially false, it was probably intentionally misleading. I asked him in writing what steps were needed to be taken to trigger the necessary on-site survey and get a fibre team to install the service to the property. I was directed to a non-advertised page on the OpenReach web site that does not appear to be linked from any default or public landing page (meaning, a bit more explicitly, that if you do not know the page exists and have not been given the URL at which it resides, there's no chance you will find it).

I completed all of the required information on November 20th last year and as of today - 28th July 2026, I am still waiting for a response.

I am part of an active community of landlords and after I shared information concerning my experiences, I was contacted by the chair of another apartment building in the same county. His experiences were even more interesting. He happened to see the Openreach team when they came to his street and began to install the fibre to individual detached freehold homes, so he walked down the road and spoke to the men concerned. They explained an essentially identical set of circumstances. He obtained a link to the same information portal and had everything completed and submitted well before Openreach had made it down the road to his property. He went out and spoke to the installers, provided them with paper copies of all the material he had submitted and asked them to ensure that they completed the installation to the roughly 50% of the residents of the block where he lived and who had requested connection. The roadside team immediately refused - perhaps understandable, since they would be following instructions - so he asked for a contact number for the manager of the installation teams.

I don't know the detailed specifics of that conversation and heard it from my fellow director; as he explained the story, he was told that a decision had been taken at the highest levels of Openreach to only deploy FTTP to stand-alone dwellings, but there was some confusion as to the motive. At first the Openreach person said something about the terms of the agreement they were deploying to had some kind of stipulation that a certain percentage of properties had to be offered connectivity by certain date milestones, but then apparently back-tracked. I don't know the specifics of what was originally claimed or where the retracted/revised statement ended up.

Bottom line is that Openreach will tell you if you ask that there is a request process, if you live in an MDU, to have their installers return and provide a connection. That process is - as far as I can tell - non-existent fiction. The entire process being followed by Openreach is to run their cable past as many dwellings as possible, but they are ignoring "MDUs" because of the perceived complications of getting landlord permission and of any potential complications caused by getting access to interior ducts within the building. From other conversations with specialists, I understand that this concern is highly relevant when the apartment building concerned is a tall multi-storey, since there is no practical choice but to use internal ducts to reach higher floors. However, for other properties, such as though with just 2 levels [ground and first floor] and where no interior ducts exist, the only possible solution is for Openreach to run the fibre up the side of the building to the first floor apartment and then simply go through the wall.

The issue seems to be that nobody in Openreach management is either aware [or possibly cares] that not all MDU's are 20-storey buildings constructed in the 1960s - and as a result Openreach have zero interest in applying common sense or customer service to a rollout being funded at least in part by UK tax-payers through the Project Gigabit initiative.

Quite a disgusting level of service from one of the UK's largest critical infrastructure providers.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Only available for Single-Dwelling Structures

>” I was directed to a non-advertised page on the OpenReach web site that does not appear to be linked from any default or public landing page”

You could of done everyone a favour and published the URL here, given it is obvious it should be public, just that OR’s web team have not got around to providing the relevant link on their website…

[Sproggit]

Re: Only available for Single-Dwelling Structures

Looks like the process has changed - again - recently. Here's a link to the latest submission site:-

https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/obtaining-wayleaves

[Roland6]

Re: Only available for Single-Dwelling Structures

>” From other conversations with specialists…”

From the few MDU’s and HMO’s I’ve been involved in, it seemed life was much easier when you went with the specialist who then did the internal wiring and only required OR to provide a line into the building. I suspect one of the reasons OR avoid these premises is because the connections aren’t “simple” and so be easily timeboxed and costed, hence prefer to treat them as business connections.

[Sproggit]

Re: Only available for Single-Dwelling Structures

That's entirely fair.

What that approach DOESN'T entitle OpenRetch to do, however, is LIE to people with claims that they have "contacted the landlord and are awaiting permission to proceed with cabling up the building", which is what they told me. It also doesn't explain how my fellow director was able to go to them with full, documented approval to proceed - *and they refused anyway*.

The point here is that there is some kind of performance criteria or contract stipulation for them to make fibre available for a certain number of premises... They have decided that the time required to figure out what is needed for an MDU degrades their time-per-dwelling performance statistics, so they are treating anyone living in an MDU as a second-class citizen just so their directors can get their bonuses.

[Roland6]

Re: Only available for Single-Dwelling Structures

>"The point here is that there is some kind of performance criteria or contract stipulation for them to make fibre available for a certain number of premises..."

If I remember correctly the weasel words used for the coverage requirement were premises passed by fibre, not actually connected...

[Jellied Eel]

Re: Only available for Single-Dwelling Structures

The point here is that there is some kind of performance criteria or contract stipulation for them to make fibre available for a certain number of premises... They have decided that the time required to figure out what is needed for an MDU degrades their time-per-dwelling performance statistics, so they are treating anyone living in an MDU as a second-class citizen just so their directors can get their bonuses.

Ofcom regulates and with government, has decided on a bunch of metrics because broadband for all! So then a bunch of stats that are open to manipulation, and like a lot of politics, it's easy to announce things. Funding them is a tad more challenging.

But directors bonuses are one of those MDU things. So property developer builds a bunch of 'luxury' apartments that include super fast fibre broadband! All for only £100 a month more, and as it's tacked onto apartment 'owners' rents.. I mean service charges, it can be a nice lil earner. Especially when their renters.. I mean owners can't opt out of that element of their charge. And even more so when the super fast broadband is actually just apartments wired back to a cheap switch in the basement and a single upstream connection. But it's luxury to have a shared, contended connection with some WiFi that everyone can share! And not at all a security risk for anyone WFH.

Which is all part of the joy of MDUs. Also my bit of that where it could be a major PITA when trying to get services into shared offices and the building owner/manager didn't want to lose their cash cow. And most of that isn't any technical thing, but very much a wayleave and sometimes Party Wall problem. Which is what Openreach's New Build team try to address because it's easier to cheaper to plonk an ODF in a basement ready to serve any renter/owner who might want service from an Openreach customer while the building work is being done than try and do it later.

Most of that can be done with desktop surveys, then site surveys, method statements, SoW etc, if the project progresses. Which if there are costs involved, developers might not want to pay. BT won't want to pay them either because an ODF doesn't generate any revenues to pay the costs.But planners have checklists of things developer would need to provide. Risers are good. But that includes wayleaves, and another FUN! aspect of telecomms is that some developers or land owners want to charge for those wayleaves, in which case BT would probably say 'No' because then it means a cost, and still no revenue. There are some potential work-arounds, like invoking Code Powers, but those are kind of a nuclear option and involve legal costs.

[Sproggit]

Re: Only available for Single-Dwelling Structures

Do you have power in your loft? Could you bring the fibre connection in to the property via your soffits and terminate it there? You could then if necessary go back outside the building with some exterior-rated CAT7 and route that to your preferred entry point?

[Caveat - if your loft has only a single electrical feed for the traditional naked-bulb light, maybe not. You can't connect appliances to a lighting circuit.]

Failing that, you could run an exterior mains cable up to your loft from the back of a wall socket lower down the building [take the socket out of the wall and make a hole from the exterior to the back of the socket to add the spur]... With a mains supply run up the exterior and through your soffits to feed a couple of sockets in your loft, you'd then be able to provide power to the fibre transceiver - the wall box that OpenRetch need to fit on the inside wall of your property. The private side of that connection is presented as RJ45, so then you could get a few metres of "exterior" shielded CAT7 and route that back down the exterior wall [parallel with but not too close to your mains feed, unless both are well shielded] and introduce the RJ45 at a location of your choosing.

[Roland6]

Re: Only available for Single-Dwelling Structures

Good points, only potential objection is the OR engineers will want boarded access to the wall they will be attaching the NTU equipment to...

[I could be a dog really]

Re: Only available for Single-Dwelling Structures

Interestingly enough I have zero reason to doubt your story - in fact, it is no surprise at all.

In our case, block of 4 purpose built flats, 2 stories, internal routing for cables. I attempted to contact the MDU team at least 4 times - only to be ignored or "actively ignored" (i.e. they responded, but only actively not engage.) At the time I was acting on behalf of the freeholder/director of the management company - I'm one of the flat leaseholders.

And lo, some shitty washing lines appear on the front of the building, without a wayleave, without permission. I'm now director of the management company, having taken over from the original developers. So far I'm up to 4 different departments who've developed sloped shoulders and basically just told me "not our department, try ..."

I''ve put very clear notices in the pit and the CSP that's got a spare way in it making it very clear that the apparatus does not have a wayleave and is to be removed - I'm rather hoping that if the leasehodler of the 4th flat orders a service, the engineer will do as the notice states and contact me.

I'm also getting really tempted to send a recorded delivery letter to OR's registered company address giving then 28 days to arrange an agreeable way forward - or I'll just remove the unauthorised apparatus and bill them for repairs.

Bloody Terrible OpenRetch

[Doctor Syntax]

"The PSTN analog network is obsolete, becoming harder to maintain and significantly more expensive to run,"

Accountant: How expensive do you want it to be?

[Peter Gathercole]

I have a couple of problems with the way that FTTP is rolled out where I live.

Where we are, all of the copper connections are over ground, on poles. No real problem there, because they are putting fibre over overhead cables.

Only problem with this is that currently, our copper line runs across the back gardens of 4 other properties between us and the pole we're connected to. This is not the closest pole, but the closest one has trees and very (very!) tall shrubs between us and the pole.

There should be no problem with this, apart from the issues of running overhead cables over several properties, but I guess that they would use the existing copper wire to guide the fibre.

But the next problem is that the back wall of our house, which is where the existing copper line is connected to has absolutely no power on it (house built before 1920, power mainly constrained to the middle of the house when last re-wired). Currently, the copper wire runs to the back wall, down the wall, around the kitchen (not an extension, built like that originally) involving going up and down the apex of the wall, round a corner and down the side of the house, where it enters at a window, and where there is power. Something like 5 90 degree bends. Openreach won't do that. Too many bends.

I want to get a survey done suggesting the best way of overcoming problems. Openreach won't do that either, even if I offer to pay for a call-out.

I've heard too many stories about people having an FTTP install scheduled, the engineer turning up and saying they can't do it, but for the FTTC service to be turned off anyway and for it to remain off for days/weeks while the problem is sorted out. My neighbour is currently fighting that one.

I work from home because of a medical condition. I need a broadband service to work.

Plus, of course, my current ISP does not have any plans with an IP phone service included (I'm happy with mobile, my wife isn't), which means I'm trying to negotiate with a new ISP as well as trying to work out how the service would be installed anyway.

I talk to people and watch videos where the fibre comes to the front of the house underground, through the front wall, and can then run straight to a suitable power socket. It seems so simple for these installs. I envy them their hassle free switch-over.

I've been told that existing FTTC installations will not be pressured quite so hard as people who still have analogue lines to the exchange, which is really what Openreach are trying to eliminate.

[Jellied Eel]

I want to get a survey done suggesting the best way of overcoming problems. Openreach won't do that either, even if I offer to pay for a call-out.

I suspect that's the good'ol structural separation problem. You, as a mere mortal can't speak to Openreach, You talk to BT Retail or Business and they can mostly only talk to their order system. And a pox on modern business can be a refusal to add a notes field to signal that a job is a little more complex than the assumed standard install. BT Business has more options, so might be worth exploring that route. Their FTTP costs a bit more, but they can manage more complex installs with possible excess construction charges. The Retail offers assume a standard amount of hours & consumables for OSP/ISP (Outside/Inside Plant) & then you hit the 'computer says No' problem.

But standard installs assume a delivery to the existing PSTN master socket, and we, as mere mortals aren't supposed to touch that. So one option can be to order a move of the existing master socket to somewhere more convenient for both you, and BT.. Which can be a general gotcha given FTTP will run fibre to existing master socket, then needs space for a 9x10" wall unit that holds the NID & a battery, then it's Ethernet to the router that'll need to go <somewhere>. But the order notes should have a pre-installation checklist informing customers of that, but often ignored and installs aborted because there isn't a dedicated power socket 1.5m from the ODP, or space for the wall unit. Which was a common problem with business installs, despite telling customers what they needed to do, and because we'd get charged for an abandoned visit if they didn't listen..

But that's pretty much how I got my FTTP. Existing Master was on a wall in the lounge, and not the basement where I wanted it and had a UPS & comms/server rack where I wanted it. So ordered a move of the Master, then the FTTP order, and all was well.

I work from home because of a medical condition. I need a broadband service to work.

That's another option. You have a medical need for a working BT service, you are concerned about the great POTS switch-off, so you need fibre, and BT wouldn't be discriminating against the disabled now, would it? That might be enough pressure to get your order moved from being a standard order in the system to one where an actual human planner/job controller will look at it.

[Peter Gathercole]

The existing master socket is where I want it. But as I said, at least 5 90 degree bends to follow the existing route of the copper cable.

I've never talked directly to an installation engineer, but from what I am told by other people who have been through the installation, where they can't run a fibre to the existing master socket, they'll suggest a different place to install the ONT and router, and this is the main issue. There really isn't a good place to put it, because there's no power anywhere on the wall where the fibre would be run to.

I suspect strongly that they would cancel the install, which is why I want a survey.

[Doctor Syntax]

Maybe the way to get a survey is to let them go ahead to attempt an install and fail.

[Jellied Eel]

Maybe the way to get a survey is to let them go ahead to attempt an install and fail.

Challenge is if they already know the DP is cabled via the rear and presented at the front. So no avoiding corners until we start building homes with fibre-friendly rounded corners. Then just bypassing the standard sales processes and scripts. If fibre could be routed via a cellar or attic, that may avoid having to deal with a different DP. I think I'd go with the disabled customer and denial of service route. BT doesn't like bad publicity and it must have internal processes for this situation because rear-entries aren't that uncommon.

[Doctor Syntax]

"BT doesn't like bad publicity"

BT is a good deal thicker skinned than that. The threshold is probably questions in the House or front page on one or more national newspapers.

[Sproggit]

That should not be a problem - and certainly not enough to discourage you. OpenRetch are rolling out monomode fibre in order to future-proof the infrastructure for future speed upgrades.

The minimum safe bend radius for monomode depends on the exact specification of the fibre you are deploying. Standard G.652D requires just 30mm radius at rest, while bend-insensitive types such as G.657 will allow a bend radius as low as 10mm (A1) or 7.5mm (A2).

You don't mention further detail regarding these five 90-degree bends, but if I could be so bold as to offer you a tiny little bit of advice from real-world practical experience...

1. If your 90-degree bend happens to be on an outside wall, then if you lay the fiber level with the mortar between two rows of bricks, you can actually "cheat" slightly and chisel away a small amount of mortar where your corners are located, to enlarge the bend radius and soften the curve slightly. [ Yes, you can get a pretty tight radius with current specification monomode, but if you don't push to that tightness, you'll reduce the risk and hopefully get a more resilient connection].

2. If your 90-degree bends happen to be on an inside wall [inside corner] then my advice, if you can tolerate it, would be to either 3D print - or find a friend with a 3D printer - and fabricate a mini "cable corner piece". Basically all you need is something that looks a bit like a shelf bracket laid horizontally. Make the distance from the corner to the furthest ends say 10cm or so. Fill in the corner with a flat piece of printed plastic, but then scribe a quarter-circle on the inside of your 2 edge pieces. You can 3D print a snap-in lid to keep it neat and tidy. You can choose a filament colour that matches your wall... You can fit the things on top of a skirting board, or up at ceiling height. And if you 3D print a quarter-circle groove on the inside of the bracket, your fibre won't kink or bunch or move once you lay it in place.

Finally, if you're still keen to proceed but can't see a way forward, a small specialist [data] cabling company might be worth a try. Chances are that a one-off might be prohibitively expensive, but if you can find one local to you, you might be able to get one of the guys to moonlight the job. Or you could try one of the local "Sky" installers... same sort of skills required.

[I could be a dog really]

A trick with both internal and external corners is a double bend. One bend takes you vertical, then a second one goes back to horizontal at a different level.

Internally, you run along the wall, turn up/down so you run right in the corner, then turn again to run along the other wall. Externally it's a bit more tricky as you'd end up with a section of cable running on the outside fo the corner and potentially rather vulnerable.

[Roland6]

My experience is to not go directly to OR (or BT) but go via third-party eg. zen, Glide etc. (I used EE before they became part of BT), these, due to Ofcom stipulations should be able to get OR to do a survey and confirm which pole will be used for the fibre line (depending on duct space there may not be room to put a fibre cap on your telephone pole, or your pole is a long way down the upgrade list). Likewise they should assess the external routing of cable from the point where the overhead line is attached to your house and where it needs to enter the house.

From memory, they want the internal termination point for the external cable to be within 1.5m of the “hole through the wall”.However, this can be a passive connector to an internal cable that goes to a location with power for the NTU et al. The issue with external cable is routing it at a level that doesn’t require excessive use of ladders/strpladders - hence why they will tend to take the external cable straight down a wall and then follow the damp course (hence the multiple 90 degree bends you described).

OR will report the connection cost back to the ISP, with whom you can discuss the cost and if necessary contributing to the installation or taking a longer contract.

If you get nowhere with this suggest exploring getting a business connection, where due to your medical condition/disability you might be entitled to a discount or grant towards your connection costs. Obviously, it is helpful if your existing XDSL/FTTC connection is low speed.

>” my current ISP does not have any plans with an IP phone service included ”

Advice I was given was if you wanted to keep your existing BT phone number, migrate your phone to digital voice whilst still under contract to BT; once disconnected in Jan 2027 it will be unlikely you will be able to recover it. I used a local business I discovered through my local Chamber of Commerce.

[I could be a dog really]

Online, BT OpenRetch have a section for developers. Included is information on providing your own cabling from CSP (customer splice point) to ONT (optical network terminator). See here, open "How to build a fibre network" and review pages 26 onwards and page 38.

I.e., you do not have to get OR to supply it, and you can install it yourself.

So work out what route will work for you to get from the back of the house to where you want the service terminating. The CSP can be inside, and they are quite small now. So you could have them run the fly wire into (say) the back bedroom and put the CSP in the corner where you hide it behind some drawers or something.

So basically, pull in the internal cable to go wherever you want, leave excess length where you want them to put the CSP, have the kettle on and biccies ready when the tech arrives.

And don't forget that your router does not have to be next to the ONT - you can use a Cat5e or Cat6 cable to take the ethernet connection anywhere in the house (length limit is (IIRC) 90m for Cat6 which should be adequate for even the biggest of houses ! My ONT is in the attic (fully boarded with fixed ladder) and the incoming service goes downstairs to my "den" as one VLAN on a trunked connection (I only had one ethernet cable available at the time.)

[Mythical Ham-Lunch]

At least where I live (not in the UK, mind you) the big two telcos have rushed out their fibre builds in such a fast and slipshod manner that I'd be very surprised if they don't have to rebuild substantial portions of the last-mile within a decade. Every F2 in a multitenant or commercial building is just an absolute rats' nest of jumpers. Drops not properly secured to the outside of buildings, lashing wire failing and trunk cables falling off their span. The investors demand more FTTP customers now!! And of course mid-span repairs on fibre are not the simple affair they are with a 25-pair copper cable.

Don't get me wrong, the speed and reliability are great, but the utter lack of care or workmanship compared to what they are ripping out and throwing away is deeply dismaying.

[Anonymous Coward]

At least where I live (not in the UK, mind you) the big two telcos have rushed out their fibre builds in such a fast and slipshod manner that I'd be very surprised if they don't have to rebuild substantial portions of the last-mile within a decade. Every F2 in a multitenant or commercial building is just an absolute rats' nest of jumpers. Drops not properly secured to the outside of buildings, lashing wire failing and trunk cables falling off their span.

France? That's what happened where I lived. 3MBit/s ADSL was all we had, FTTP promised "coming next year" for 5 years. It made it to the next-nearest village, then they were ordered to stop all installations for 6 months while they re-did all the botched stuff. Still no FTTP when I moved away 2 years later, apparently it finally arrived about 2 years after that.

[Phil O'Sophical]

Openreach don't help themselves when they advertise FTTP as ideal for "Larger families and shared homes, Streaming 4K TV, Connecting 100+ devices, Flawless online gaming, Crystal clear video calls, Reliable home working, Digital phone lines", absolutely none of which is useful or of interest for my 80-year-old Mum-in-law who just wants a reliable phone that she can hear (she struggles with a mobile, and only gets a signal upstairs anyway) and internet access fast enough for her email and Sainsbury's shopping.

[AndrueC]

What do you expect Openreach to do or say? Your Mum-in-law is like many, many people. Probably the majority who just don't give a damn about technology. She/they can already do everything they want so they are happy to bimble along and don't appreciate people trying to change the services they use.

At the moment the switch to FTTP isn't a major concern for Openreach. Their priority is PSTN switch off which doesn't require everyone to have FTTP. Eventually they want to shut off all copper services but that's probably a decade off yet.

[Jellied Eel]

Openreach don't help themselves when they advertise FTTP as ideal for "Larger families and shared homes, Streaming 4K TV, Connecting 100+ devices, Flawless online gaming, Crystal clear video calls, Reliable home working, Digital phone lines", absolutely none of which is useful or of interest for my 80-year-old Mum-in-law

That isn't what Openreach does, this is-

https://www.openreach.com/building-developers-and-projects/fibre-for-developers

So they have a process for developers & new-builds. Then confuses the issue a bit by mentioning residents as well, who Openreach don't sell to.

[Phil O'Sophical]

That isn't what Openreach does, this is-

My quote was taken directly from their website, at https://www.openreach.com/fibre-checker/ultrafast-full-fibre-broadband

[Doctor Syntax]

I'm sure you're both correct. It's not unknown to have different parts of BT (and they own OR) to not know what others are doing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Too much effort

My client based in a city. Client is about 200 metres down a side street. Previous supplier messed up and cancelled the broadband. So we needed to order a new line. "We'll have fibre please" We can literally see the cabinet at the end of the alley way.

Nope. Not allowed. Instead they "fine" us £100 for having ADSL copper instead. What? How does that work. So the supplier who refuses to run a fibre cable down an alley way. Down a simple wall. Instead can charge the client an extra £100 to not do that work. How is that an incentive? Client looses out due to Openreach not wanting to do the work. And Openreach benefit with £100 paid to them to not do the work requested.

Openreach turn up on the day, well a day later that planned but that is almost "on the day"... and just reconnect the old cable. We waited two weeks for this and paid a £100 fine for ADSL...

[DS999]

Are they doing passive optical fiber (PON)

Fiber (sorry "fibre") isn't an acceptable alternative for copper for landlines if it stops working when the power goes out. Around here the fiber providers are all doing PON so if you have some type of backup power solution for the device(s) providing your network/phone service it'll keep working (modulo any issues that prevent the headend's batteries / generators from working)

I had talked to my mom about switching her old copper landline to VOIP, since she could port her number and everything would work the same. The hitch would be she'd lose her phone when the power went out, which was a non starter for her. She said "I don't want to have to look for my cell phone when its dark, and what if I haven't remembered to charge it?"

I assumed Ooma (the solution I was suggesting) wouldn't be able to provide enough power to ring the two old Bell princess phones with the mechanical bell ringer she would rely on during a power outage but I recently learned it just might. So I'm planning to give it a try, and if it works then I'll get her a 500 Wh battery backup which should give her about a day's worth of power for her fiber ONT, router, and Ooma. I figured (and she agreed) that if power was out for longer than a day she's got bigger problems than whether her landline works lol

If a local telco just gets rid of copper and "upgrades" phones to fiber, and it isn't PON or doesn't make any allowances for providing service during an extended outage, one wonders how many elderly people who don't have someone to look out for them get left behind.

[Roland6]

Re: Are they doing passive optical fiber (PON)

There were “data communication” grade UPS’s. These differed from standard computer UPS’s in that they could handle the low power draw of data comm’s equipment (ie. Could detect and measure it) and so shutdown when the battery got low and not get shutdown unexpectedly by the battery running out of juice. I seem to remember some UPS’s and routers would send out a message warning of battery shutdown.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Are they doing passive optical fiber (PON)

Just don't buy the Eaton 12v ones, their Li-Ion charger circuitry has no battery protection, so the batteries get overcharged and die in a year or so. I had to replace all the batteries with ones containing protection circuits in the battery.

[neuro]

fruit and …

‘“By phasing out legacy copper-based services in areas where fiber is now widely available, we're ensuring customers and providers move onto faster, more reliable, digital infrastructure," said James Lilley’.

No, he didn’t. Here’s what he said:

“By phasing out legacy copper-based services in areas where fibre is now widely available, we’re ensuring customers and providers move onto faster, more reliable, digital infrastructure”.

https://www.openreach.com/news/openreach-stops-copper-for-another-million-premises-in-bid-to-push-customers-to-new-digital-lines/

Spot the difference.

[Charles Smith]

I've been chasing BT full fibre since 2014; finally in June 2026 its been made available. I booked a service install within a couple of days and full fibre is now in and working. However as a temporary measure in 2015 I took on a G.Fast Broadband from Openreach (via Zen Internet). This package had a mandatory analogue phone service associated, which I didn't want, but had to take it to get the speed of the G.Fast Broadband Internet.

BT, via Zen, have upped the cost of that unwanted voice line to £29/month ex-VAT, with the G.Fast price on top at £40/month. We were paying for a voice service whilst BT-Openreach couldn't provide an alternative. We've been punished by BT-Openreach with punitive fees for voice (unwanted) owing to their flaky roll-out of full fibre.

[Roland6]

Was the full fibre via Zen or did you go directly with BT?

Ie. Was June 2026 the date the full fibre service became available to non-BT ISPs.

[Jellied Eel]

BT, via Zen, have upped the cost of that unwanted voice line to £29/month ex-VAT, with the G.Fast price on top at £40/month. We were paying for a voice service whilst BT-Openreach couldn't provide an alternative. We've been punished by BT-Openreach with punitive fees for voice (unwanted) owing to their flaky roll-out of full fibre.

Nope, Zen's decided to bundle a service that includes VoIP, whether you want it or not. Other ISPs will sell you a data-only service but probably also try to push you to bundle voice as well. Openreach doesn't do retail, only tightly regulated and defined offers that are then available to all SP's that want to use Openreach. Openreach's customers (including BT Retail, Business & Wholesale, Zen etc) will then create their own packages based on Openreach services.

Which understandably confuses people who aren't trade and use to the way regulated providers have to operate. Which also leads to some oddities, like the standard old Huawei FTTP NID having a battery and POTS port included linked to a separate VLAN, with the idea that that could be used by Openreach (or other telco) customers to provide a voice service with some degree of resilience. But even though this was a GoodThing(tm), most SPs prefer to do VoIP via their router, which generally doesn't have any battery. So power goes out, so does your VoIP service.

But that's regulation for you. So back in the early days and OTT operators flogging VoIP, people died because their phones stopped working, or they couldn't be located. Not good, when voice is a safety-of-life thing. So then regulators started regulating and mandating things like battery backup so dying gasps to emergency services could be made, and customer's located. So we, as industry developed services that could do this. But (I)SPs glued to routers decided that including enough battery to power a router was too expensive, and just printing a warning to their customers was much cheaper.