Putin sends submarines to survey Britain's subsea cables. UK deploys Royal Navy, mobilizes parliamentary draftsmen

The British government wants stronger protection for subsea internet cables following a surge in Russian activity near UK waters, but its latest proposals lean heavily on fines and prison sentences rather than direct defensive action. Plans - outlined in a speech by Baroness Liz Lloyd, Minister for Digital Economy ahead of a …

[tiggity]

In a war scenario

Just assume the cables are toast anyway in a war scenario! (though a "proper" war with a big nuked armed company would make most of the UK radioactive toast...)

The recent wheeze of "underwater drones" to protect the cables might enrich the bottom line of a few arms companies but will be unlikely to achieve much (unless a logistically ludicrous number are deployed).

.. its not as if we and our allies don't spend time & resources on ensuring we know where the Russian "secret" * cables are

* Although commercial cable locations are well described**, the defence related ones are obviously not.

** Before ending up about as far inland as possible in the UK, I did power boating as a hobby & various additional sea boating related qualifications such as navigation etc. This was quite a while ago & even then they emphasised being aware of cables (I was on a general sea navigation course so covered vessels of any size and activity) - charts show the (non secret) cable routes precisely so you can avoid them be it fishing, anchor use etc..

[Jellied Eel]

Re: In a war scenario

This was quite a while ago & even then they emphasised being aware of cables (I was on a general sea navigation course so covered vessels of any size and activity) - charts show the (non secret) cable routes precisely so you can avoid them be it fishing, anchor use etc..

Semi-precisely. Snag (pun intended) with submarine cables is they can move with the currents, so charts show roughly where they are. If they've drifted outside of their charted position, then operators find it a lot harder to claim, if they're cut or damaged. Then the problem that sometimes fishermen or sailors ignore the charts and drop nets or anchors anyway. So not a great deal operators can do to protect cable routes. The Navy can, but there's a lot of ocean and a lot of wet string, and not many ships to patrol cable routes.

But also some protection (pun also intended) that most decent systems aren't single cables, there's a lot of telcomms ones, so a degree of diversity & resilience. Assuming customers understand that cables can get damaged, so they need to design in their own resiliency, which customers often didn't. Which was a tad foolish given that when cables do get cut or damaged, it can take days to restore service. But telecomms cables probably aren't the real risk. It would take a lot of synchronised sabotage to isolate the UK from VPNs and pron..

But probably fewer power cables, and they're often running flat out, keeping our lights on thanks to the UK's insane energy policy. But then policy is the problem. The biggest and most expensive 'cable' cut was the Nord Stream sabotage, and our 'leaders' don't seem at all interested in holding anyone accountable for that. We just helped the French steal a 'shadow fleet' oil tanker. We keep poking the bear, and eventually the bear might just push back. De-escalation might be a more sensible policy than escalating our conflict with Russia.

[nobody who matters]

Re: In a war scenario

"De-escalation might be a more sensible policy than escalating our conflict with Russia."

Except of course that most of Western Europe would much rather co-exist peacefully: it is Russia that keeps doing the poking, not everyone else ;-)

[Jellied Eel]

Re: In a war scenario

Except of course that most of Western Europe would much rather co-exist peacefully: it is Russia that keeps doing the poking, not everyone else ;-)

Western Europe didn't really get much say in the matter. It was Nuland, her cookies and infamous 'fsck the EU!'.. .And boy, did she ever. The EU economy went from being larger than the US to rapidly contracting because the last thing the US wanted was a closer EU-Russia economy & trading bloc. Russian's can't get overpriced McDonalds, Starbucks or Coca Cola, but other burgers, coffee & colas are available and US businesses lost that market. Which probably didn't bother the US government that much given the way those US businesses minimise their tax liability.

[Gary Stewart]

Re: In a war scenario

"Western Europe didn't really get much say in the matter."

Sounds exactly like a Vlad the invader problem to me and most of the rest of non-Putin aligned countries. With the noted exception of Putin's favorite boot licker and his cult hoard of "low IQ persons" sycophants and a stunning reversal of over 80 years of "commies under the bed coming to eat your pets" republican legislators. As well as at least one he who shall not be named person ;) .

[Jellied Eel]

Re: In a war scenario

Sounds exactly like a Vlad the invader problem to me and most of the rest of non-Putin aligned countries. With the noted exception of Putin's favorite boot licker and his cult hoard of "low IQ persons" sycophants and a stunning reversal of over 80 years of "commies under the bed coming to eat your pets" republican legislators.

Those pesky commies are still everywhere, launching Ukrainian drones into European airspace and threatening to eat our fibre. The scoundrels! The cult hoard of low IQ people are cheering on Ukraine building monuments to Nazis while our arms dealers are celebrating the diversion of social & welfare spending into their pockets. Even though Ukraine and now Iran has demonstrated that the greatest bottle rockets in the world, like Patriot and THUUD can't intercept the missiles being thrown the West's way. Our Dear Leaders have been busy sanctioning Europe, and scrabbling around to find more things to sanction. They've not had much effect (on Russia), but the 22nd round of sanctions will make the difference. Right? So Kallas & clowns muttering about lowering the oil price cap. The EU can't pay more than $60 a barrel, or the EU will fine them bigly! They can pay much more for US or Canadian, because the US is such a reliable trading partner. Not our trading partner though, and the US Iran antics generated quite the windfall for Russia's exports.

[Gary Stewart]

Re: In a war scenario

Yeah, some of them even post here :).

[Casca]

Re: In a war scenario

And you cant stop with your Ukraine hate.

You really should seek help. Preferably in russia where you can stay.

[BartyFartsLast]

Re: In a war scenario

Appeasement Mr Chamberlain, peace in our time

[Blazde]

Re: In a war scenario

Resilience is the answer. Raising the costs and risks of attacking the current cables should be a part of that, but has it's clear limits. Some cables are much easier to protect than others. And detection is critical because it allows for deterrent strategies in every scenario except all-out war. Even in the Ukraine war there are still some limits surrounding how much either side wants to escalate against certain infrastructure.

Then, in a world where a Starlink satellite can provide broadband to numerous ground 'dishes' we ought to be able to construct some high-bandwidth directional radio links across short sections of the channel, or even over longer distances. I've no doubt it'd be much less efficient than a cable, but does such a thing exist anywhere? There could even be floating or anchored repeaters in the sea. Obviously all the infrastructure would be attackable but via different mean than undersea cables so.. resilience/diversification.

Or, there's always the Northern European Enclosure Dam ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_European_Enclosure_Dam ). That'll stop em getting to the cables! (while building a new much more serious sabotage problem - and I'm joking to be clear)

[Jellied Eel]

Re: In a war scenario

I've no doubt it'd be much less efficient than a cable, but does such a thing exist anywhere?

Yep. Funnily enough, across the Channel. Funded by the high freak traders so they can shave off a few ms latency, all the better to front-run trades.

There could even be floating or anchored repeaters in the sea. Obviously all the infrastructure would be attackable but via different mean than undersea cables so.. resilience/diversification.

Those would be more easily damaged, either accidentally or intentionally, or just due to wave action. Places like the North Sea can get a tad rough. But some comms uses oil platforms, and could also probably use off-shore windmills as masts for transceivers. Slight snag with that would be the blades rather interfering with any beam.

[Blazde]

Re: In a war scenario

Yep. Funnily enough, across the Channel. Funded by the high freak traders

Right, Euronext Wireless Network. And similar between some US exchanges. Now all we need to do is get the FPS gaming $ involved in financing a lot more capacity and innovation to shave 4ms of their kills, like they did with GPU R&D.

There's also already fibre cable inside the Channel Tunnel underground. Also not invulnerable but differently vulnerable to the undersea cables.

[Jellied Eel]

Re: In a war scenario

There's also already fibre cable inside the Channel Tunnel underground. Also not invulnerable but differently vulnerable to the undersea cables.

Yep. A lot of the challenge with cables is getting the wayleaves, i.e not just anyone can lay cable through the tunnel, and the wayleaves cost £££. But being somewhat familiar with that one, the design is quite neat. So rather than just running cable through each tunnel & calling it good, it runs in a kind of figure of eight or chain config using the cross-tunnels. With some additional complexity due to fire & flood control barriers not snipping the cables. ISTR there was a fire in one of the tunnels but not much outage, and easier to fix once the all clear is given than waiting for a cable maintenance ship to get to a wet cut and start restoration.

[Gary Stewart]

Re: In a war scenario

At least it would be very hard to claim it was an accident!

[Blazde]

Re: In a war scenario

Resident Kremlin-mouth is 'somewhat familiar' with our critical fibre links.. that's just great isn't it :)

[Jellied Eel]

Re: In a war scenario

Resident Kremlin-mouth is 'somewhat familiar' with our critical fibre links.. that's just great isn't it :)

Yup. It means I can contribute something useful to the discussion, unlike the conspiracy theorists who see the red menace everywhere. But fear not, the EU will save you from that!

https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/2026-06-01/ketchup-and-mayo-sachets-to-be-banned-in-portugal-restaurants/1032083

The new rule must be applied in all European countries from August 2026, and it prohibits restaurants and hotels from using individual sachets of ketchup or mayonnaise, for example, but it will also apply to olive oil, salt and other seasonings in plastic sachets.

It's good to see the EUrocrats focusing on the big issues..

[Blazde]

Re: In a war scenario

The people putting salt in plastic sachets need putting up against the wall

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: In a war scenario

You bring your own bullshit and love for putins russia to the discussion you mean.

[I ain't Spartacus]

Re: In a war scenario

Resilience is the answer. Raising the costs and risks of attacking the current cables should be a part of that, but has it's clear limits. Some cables are much easier to protect than others. And detection is critical because it allows for deterrent strategies in every scenario except all-out war.

All-out-war is a bit easier.

Sure the Russians could dedicate their extremely valuable subs to trying to cut our cables. But they would have many other jobs to do, and the good thing is that defence is a lot easier when you're allowed to shoot the enemy first.

But detection is key - because the Russian government are up for making life difficult for everyone - including themselves. But it's easier if they can get away with things for free. Information gives us the chance to deter, or to escalate. Perhaps Storm Shadow can be used inside Russia after all, given you're hitting our infrastructure...

[Doctor Evil]

Re: In a war scenario

"a big nuked armed company"

Truly a terrifying prospect! Elon Musk (or any of his ilk) with control of nuclear weapons? Yikes!

[Gary Stewart]

Re: In a war scenario

Um, for really really scary try Donald J Trump.

[elsergiovolador]

Trembling

I can tell you Putin is trembling right now.

Likely of laughter.

[Korev]

Re: Trembling

Britain didn't send a single anti-submarine frigate to the recent NATO exercise and sent an aircraft carrier with only four helicopters. Our only active attack submarine is undergoing maintenance.

I suspect that Putin hasn't stopped laughing

[Charlie Clark]

Re: Trembling

And then someone reminds him of the Black Sea Fleet…

[balrog]

Re: Trembling

Putin has the biggest submarine fleet in the world don't you know?

[Gary Stewart]

Re: Trembling

Yeah, but how many of them are actually sea worthy?

[DoctorNine]

Re: Trembling

I think you missed the /s on that one old boy.

[John F Jennings]

AUKUS has relegated Australia to 3 second hand virginia ssn now. with no option to refuel or refit in Aus, they are basically operators only - they probably wont be able to actually make anything for it.

The whole thing is just a game to spend more in the US arms game - like this article putting the responsibility on the operator to defend a national infrastructure.

[LogicGate]

But remember.. ..at least you have that "special relationship".

[elsergiovolador]

As in "retarded".

[Gary Stewart]

Pot/kettle?

[Gary Stewart]

And how many other countries besides the big three or four(?) have full access to such formidable submarines?

[Anonymous Coward]

relegated Australia to 3 second hand virginia ssn now. with no option to refuel or refit in Aus

Key thing being "for now". Building submarines is a slow business - check public sources on the internet and you can see the timescales, I could neither confirm nor deny anything you might come up with. Building up the capability to build them is also a slow business - so it'll be a while before they (Australia) have that capability. So it makes sense to lease (or whatever arrangement has been reached) for Oz to operate some spare US vessels in the meantime - it'll allow them to gain valuable operating expertise as well as giving them the capability now. The new SSNs won't be rolling out of Barrow for a while (at least a decade I think), and they won't be building them locally in that timeframe either. So would you prefer they just sit back and make do with SSKs ?

And before you criticise the inability to refuel, bear in mind that the latest reactor designs are "fuelled for life" - the core that goes in during construction will be the one that powers it for it's operating life. That's the plan, and people above my pay grade, and a lot cleverer, have designed that.

they probably wont be able to actually make anything for it

No, they'll be building the boats and are in the process of building the shipyard in which they'll be doing it. There are some parts they won't be building - the reactor itself will be made in Derby, but will be identical to the ones we'll be running in the UK. As above, it'll be fuelled for life.

AFAIK, all this is public knowledge.

[Jellied Eel]

No, they'll be building the boats and are in the process of building the shipyard in which they'll be doing it. There are some parts they won't be building - the reactor itself will be made in Derby, but will be identical to the ones we'll be running in the UK. As above, it'll be fuelled for life.

AFAIK, all this is public knowledge.

Plus at some point, Australia might elect a government that sees the benefit of lifting their ban on nuclear energy. Until then, AUKUS includes a whole slew of technology and work-share projects that will create jobs and boost the Australian economy.

[xyz123]

its time these enemy vessels were sunk.

We're in an ACTUAL War. Russia is murdering british citizens, both in the UK and abroad, hacking and damaging UK interests etc.

[Anonymous Coward]

Where are you talking about russia murdering british? In Ukraine? Sure. The Brits supplying Stormshadows, drones and probably sinking the Ursa Major (killing 2 of its crew) - by how many have the britsh returned the favor?

With what would the british actually fight a war with russia (if you started one, no article 5)....

1 partially active Aircraft carrier (other in refit already and for the one thats active, it needs to borrow planes from the yanks to actually fill it)

2 operational destroyers (out of 6!)- 1 in the med right now,

5 frigates *1 at the Middle east & 1 eastern Med right now),

1 operational ssbn,

1 astute and

4 river class patrol boat at home (out of 6 operational)

The Senior Service is 30% undermanned - it has OVER 60 ships total - but only the crew for 25. Its 4,500 under strength in TRAINED personnel, and LOSING 200-250 extra per year.

If you go to war, I mean actual war with Russia, they will embarrass you. You do not want an actual war because the british couldnt fight one - be pragmatic your empire is gone, and you need to stop yapping like a b*tch about your interests.

[Gary Stewart]

"With what would the british actually fight a war with russia (if you started one, no article 5)"

Assuming Russia doesn't preemptively attack any other NATO country.

"The Brits supplying Stormshadows, drones"

So no direct involvement much like China, North Korea, and Iran supplying Russia with ammunition, weapons and drones. Special shout out to N. Korea for using troupes on the ground to get directly involved. And just how involved is Belarus given that it's territory has being used from the beginning as a staging ground by Russia.

"If you go to war, I mean actual war with Russia, they will embarrass you."

Yeah Putin is laughing so hard in one of his hidden bunkers at Ukraine's red face.

"You do not want an actual war because the british couldnt fight one"

Here, if the UK did fight it alone you are probably right. They have neglected their military for far too long although they have recently begun to realize that something must be done to reverse that. Given their ongoing assistance to Ukraine they could get a few pointers that would be invaluable to the UK's effort to hold out and hope that Russia does something stupid like the previously mentioned preemptive strike.

"and you need to stop yapping like a b*tch about your interests."

Ah the modern version intelligent discussion.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think any NATO country should initiate a

[Jellied Eel]

We're in an ACTUAL War. Russia is murdering british citizens, both in the UK and abroad, hacking and damaging UK interests etc.

No we're not. Or I must have slept through Starmer going to Parliament and the King and issuing a formal declaration of war. Then I'd also miss the Bbc reporting the temperatures at Kew Gardens and LHR had exceeded the previous record by 2,000 degrees.

Starmer might be murdering Russian citizens by supplying weapons and support to Ukraine, but we're in a phoney or shadow war at the moment. Russia may be getting a tad fed up with this and has threatened to go after command centres more aggressively, which might result in some more training accidents. If British truckers are driving loads of drones or weapons into Ukraine, then they might not survive the experience. Russia's also getting fed up with Ukrainian lorries being used to launch drones into Russia, so has been actively hunting lorries. One of those 'two wrongs don't make a right' things where Ukraine shouldn't be launching drones from civilian vehicles, but because they are, Russia is targetting those.. Which won't be helping Ukraine's logistics.

But then Ukraine is rarely bothered by international dimensions, eg Zelensky took time out the other day to do this-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Melnyk_(officer)#Reburial

On 25 May, Melnyk and Sofia were reburied with full state honours in the National Military Memorial Cemetery [uk], near Kyiv, in a ceremony attended by Zelenskyy, Prime Minister Yulia Svyrydenko, Head of the Office of the President of Ukraine Kyrylo Budanov, Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada Ruslan Stefanchuk, and former president Viktor Yushchenko. The Ukrainian government also announced plans to repatriate the remains of Yevhen Konovalets and to establish a National Pantheon for distinguished Ukrainians.

'Distinguished', or Nazi collaborators. Naturally this decision rather upset Israel & Poland. Especially as Poland helped pay for this ceremony and memorial to a scumbag responsible for slaughtering Poles and Jews. Plus Zelensky helped Russia with their claim that they're de-nazifying Ukraine, which is possibly why they didn't deliver hazlenut flowers to the event.

[vogon00]

"exceeded the previous record by 2,000 degrees

Reminds me of the far less 'P.C.' times of 1990. Saddam Hussein had just stepped over the border, and there was an awful lot of news reporting that the expected invasion of Kuwait had commenced.

90 mins or so later the departmental FAX machine chirped into life as it did.....and we received an unsolicited but very authentic looking weather forecast.

It actually came from a customer (Who will remain nameless, you know who you are!) The words read "Short-range forecast for Baghdad : 6500F and cloudy."

Much more fun times:-)

[Gary Stewart]

"I must have slept through"

I've noticed.

[Charlie Clark]

Hm, choose to focus on some tasteless acts of revisionism in Ukraine because the list of war crimes committed by Russia is too long? But, yeah, honouring and reburying people considered as war criminals is a far more heinous crime than say launching missiles at hospitals, or kidnapping children or using tear gas, or having drone "safaris" against people waiting for buses, torturing and murdering prisoners of war… it's a long list and we've only got a limited attentions span.

As for tasteless acts of revisionism, it's not as if the Poles are entirely innocent themselves in this respect. Nor are the Hungarians and Vlad himself has been keen to rehabilitate one of the twentieth centuries greatest committers of genocide: Uncle Joe Stalin. Not that this excuses what the Ukrainians are doing, but moaning about that in the face of Russia's war crimes does suggest you've got a hotline to Peskov.

[Casca]

JE is so far up putins ass that he is seeing sunshine.

Anyone who resisted the russian invasion in the Baltic states is a nazi according to JE. He really hate Kallas for some reason and called her a drunk in an number of posts.

[Jellied Eel]

Anyone who resisted the russian invasion in the Baltic states is a nazi according to JE.

People like Melnyk, who actively collaborated with Nazis were Nazis, not heroes.

He really hate Kallas for some reason

I'm not alone. But she's somehow the EU's chief diplomat during a time when the EU could use some diplomacy. And none of the world leaders seem to want to meet with her.

[Casca]

You are the one who post on this forum about Kallas...

So you can name one nazi in the Baltic states. Good on you. You really are a peace of work

[Casca]

This is what your favorite country is doing.

https://www.occrp.org/en/investigation/leaked-documents-reveal-russian-cognitive-strikes-against-the-west-including-islamophobic-pig-head-attacks-in-paris

[Jellied Eel]

This is what your favorite country is doing.

Hmm? You mean-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_Crime_and_Corruption_Reporting_Project

The largest donor in 2023 was the government of the United States, which provides slightly less than half of the annual funding via USAID, the National Endowment for Democracy and the Department of State.

'Independent' journalism at its finest, right?

[Jellied Eel]

... it's a long list and we've only got a limited attentions span.

Yep. And you have an attention span that is heavily focused on one side. Ukraine is committing plenty of war crimes of their own. Their social media warfare battalions happily post videos of their drones murdering surrendering Russians, or soldiers who are obviously hors de combat. Helsinki airport was forced to close and Finns seek shelter due to drone incursions. The media dutifully scrambled their interceptors to suggest these drones were somehow redirected by Russia, so it was all Russia's fault. Not-

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2026/06/01/8037296/

Details: According to the sources, Ukraine itself issued a warning overnight that it had accidentally directed drones toward Finland. The drones were carrying explosives.

Attack drones are typically programmed using target coordinates and intermediate waypoints that determine their routes. Errors can occur in this process, and this may have happened in Ukraine ahead of 15 May.

Accident. Right. The world's best drone operators somehow accidentaly programmed drones to fly over friendly NATO airspace rather than Russian, where they'd have a greater risk of being shot down or intercepted. But one of those incidents where Baltic states tend to act too hastily with their propaganda-

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2026/05/22/8035886/

The Belgian foreign minister described Russia's accusations against the Baltic states as "pure fantasy".

Oops. Fantasy turns out to be reality, and at least in one incident, Ukrainian drones were using Baltic states airspace. Whether they had permission is yet to be determined. But Ukraine attacked St Petersburg apartment buildings again last night. Well, it might not intentionally have attacked them, and apartment buildings might just be collateral damage, just as they are in Ukraine. But the world's greatest leader and comedian stated-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0e2vqd3j1vo

"The Ukrainian plan of long-range sanctions is being implemented exactly as it is needed to bring peace closer," Zelensky wrote on social media, using a euphemism for long-distance strikes on Russia.

Not peace, missiles. Russia already promised retaliatory strikes after Ukraine's attack on student accommodation. Now Zelensky's demonstrated he's a missile magnet for Ukrainians. Well, not him personally given he's rarely in Ukraine.. And Russia's stated they're only interested in striking decision making centres, which means Zelensky's probably not a target given he doesn't make the decisions.

Not that this excuses what the Ukrainians are doing, but moaning about that in the face of Russia's war crimes does suggest you've got a hotline to Peskov.

Nope. That's just your flawed logic. I've consistently stated that my opposition to the Ukrainian government is because of the way they glorify their Nazi past and do very little to condemn, or ban that. Or as Zelensky said-

Colonel Andriy Melnyk returned to a different Ukraine: not the one he was forced to leave, but the one he dreamed of. He and thousands of other such significant Ukrainian figures dreamed of it. I thank everyone who is truly trying to ensure that our Ukrainian national memory remains a living memory.

Melnyk's body should have been dumped in a swamp, just as Melnyk's forces did with thousands of Poles and Jews. But this memorial service should disgust the EU, especially as they've paid for the memorial to an avowed Nazi loyalist and collaborator. This is a quote from Melnyk-

In the German soldiers, we see those who, under the leadership of Adolf Hitler, drove the Bolsheviks out of Ukraine; we are obliged to consciously and organisedly assist them in the crusade against Moscow, regardless of any difficulties... We are living at the time of the birth of a new order in Europe. In a Europe that is renewed and consolidated under the leadership of National Socialist Germany, Ukraine must take its place side-by-side with other nations. It is tasked with responsibilities dictated by its geopolitical position and its historical traditions

Does that really sound like someone who should be glorified? Especially given that glorification would be illegal in the EU...

[Casca]

And the russian propaganda channel keeps on posting.

Now do the soviets...

[Charlie Clark]

Again, ignoring Russian war crimes, making false equivalences and parrotting their propaganda.

The sooner Vlad is dead, the sooner this can stop.

[Jellied Eel]

Again, ignoring Russian war crimes, making false equivalences and parrotting their propaganda.

Nope. I simply pointed out Zelensky and his regime had wasted money building a memorial to a Nazi collaborator and war criminal. Thus handing Russia some more propaganda.

The sooner Vlad is dead, the sooner this can stop.

Any other world leaders you want dead? Should the authorities be concerned? But we may have already attempted to assassinate Putin. So assuming Ukraine succeeds, especially if our help could be proven.. Who do you think would replace him, and what do you think Russia's response would be to an assassination? His successors are likely to be even more hard-line.

[Gary Stewart]

With Putin in charge I wouldn't poke the bear too hard or all the bluster might turn to action. Especially, given the "second most powerful military in the world's" record against Ukraine (who?) and it;s almost certain defeat against the full force of NATO even with the US sitting in the corner with it's dunce hat on. The recent addition of Denmark and Sweden would help mitigate that loss of US participation. I would however suggest that NATO spend a lot of time with their Ukrainian counterparts to find out the best ways to put the bear back in the cage because modern warfare on land and sea has radically changed in the last 2 or 3 years. The bad part of this is that with Putin out of the picture by whatever means it leaves open the door for even more hard line thinking that doesn't like to be poked.

[NapTime ForTruth]

"...with Putin out of the picture by whatever means it leaves open the door for even more hard line thinking..."

One of the fundamental characteristics of war is that it tends to remove more than one leader, potential leader, or other obstacle to change, and is likely to continue the culling until behavior improves.

The short-term effectiveness is quite high; the long term outcomes are a bit more...nuanced.

[Charlie Clark]

We're not yet officially at war with Russia. And while Russia, and for that matter China and America, don't take international maritime law seriously, most countries that rely on international trade do.

[Tron]

Putin has some catching up to do.

Currently the UK govt, OSA censorship with more to come, is blocking off more of the net to UK netizens than Russia could, clipping a couple of cables.

[billdehaan]

Fail, Brittania

A century ago, British civilian fishing vessels could legitimately brag that they were able to fight the Russian Navy to a draw (October 1904, at Dogger Bank). Today, Britain can't get a ship out of harbour because the unionized workforce can't be arsed to work overtime, and the ships they do get into the water need the help of their hereditary enemies the French to help them.

There's an old joke about British bobbies' threat against criminal was to yell "Stop! Stop, or I shall yell stop again!". The joke was that British police of the time didn't need firearms (as their American counterparts did) because they had a high trust society. Brits saw that joke as an indication of the UK being a higher trust society than the yanks; Americans saw it as an indication of British police's impotence.

Today, the UK government is threatening Russia with telling them that if they don't behave, the UK shall be very cross with them. and yell stop again. Unfortunately, Russia is not a high trust society, and the UK's willingness to go unarmed is no longer seen as high minded principle, but suicidal weakness.

[Anonymous Coward]

How many ships has Putin hijacked on the high seas /s

“Their mission was to survey our cables in peacetime, so they could more easily sabotage them in a conflict”

[AbeSapian]

Live Fire Exercises

Perhaps the UK should start conducting live fire anti-submarine warfare exercises in the vicinity of these cables. You know, practice dropping anti-submarine ordinance on "simulated" submerged targets. See what shakes loose.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Live Fire Exercises

And what exactly are you going to use for ships?

[Jellied Eel]

Re: Live Fire Exercises

Perhaps the UK should start conducting live fire anti-submarine warfare exercises in the vicinity of these cables. You know, practice dropping anti-submarine ordinance on "simulated" submerged targets. See what shakes loose.

Well, the cables for one. Submarine fibres can get fractured just from the shockwaves caused by large anchors dropping near by. 'Accidentally' damaging or sinking someone elses submarine would be one way to start a war. Plus if they're in international waters, they're free to survey anything they want, providing they don't interfere with them. We do it, they do it, it's all part of the great game. It might not be friendly behaviour, but then the West & Russia haven't been friends since 1991, just steadily ratcheting up hostilities until 'accidents' happen.

Then Russia might just decide to pull a Nord Stream on some of our assets, and see what the response is, and if our 'leaders' want to move from a phony war to a real one. Such is nuclear brinkmanship. There's also been some FUN! at the UN with Germany failing to win a seat on the Security Council. The US, UK, France & Germany stacking that deck could have got interesting, but any UN SC resolutions would still likely have been vetoed by Russia & China. Not that the UN SC really matters given the number of unauthorised conflicts currently on the go.