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back to article NASA to pull an IKEA by dropping tons of plastic, metal, and glass on the Moon

Within three years, NASA hopes to resume crewed Moon landings, but unlike their snapshot-happy, golfing Apollo predecessors, future Artemis astronauts may spend part of their time assembling the foundations of a permanent lunar outpost, the agency said on Tuesday. Between now and 2029, NASA says its Moon Base initiative could …

  1. MachDiamond Silver badge

    Nice to see

    There are no 3D printers where one could dump some regolith in the input hopper and get needful parts out of the other side. Having suitable raw materials ready would help bootstrap into a manufacturing plant that can extract and separate raw materials from an area to use to build things. I also push for landers to be constructed in a way that they can be disassembled and the parts used something like a Mechano (Erector) set if they aren't going to be reused again. Stages that won't be landed could have the capability to be crashed in a particular spot so those materials can be harvested and also don't land on anybody. Scrapheap Challenge, anybody?

    1. John Robson Silver badge

      Re: Nice to see

      "There are no 3D printers where one could dump some regolith in the input hopper and get needful parts out of the other side."

      I'd have thought that was obvious. In the same way that there are no current thorium pellet manufacturers capable of supplying the entire worlds energy demands...

      I don't imagine they'd be easy things to construct, regolith is nasty stuff, but with sufficient energy input there are certainly usable materials there.

      Having deconstructable landers is certainly an interesting idea, and one we should be looking at in all sorts of things.... define common voltages, connectors, canister sizes etc.

      But it's also a little disappointing that they're looking at a handful of tons of cargo...

      1. NoneSuch Silver badge
        FAIL

        Re: Nice to see

        Everyone building Ikea stuff always loses the little hex Allen key.

        1. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: Nice to see

          "Everyone building Ikea stuff always loses the little hex Allen key."

          How many do you need? I have a jar full of Ikea tools and spare fasteners. Two rooms are lined with Billy bookcases and I'm going to get some more the next time I'm in their neighborhood. I often get called to help friends assemble their Ikea purchases and they'll just give me any spare stuff. Many of those fittings are really clever and Ikea sells them so having some on hand to design around is useful.

        2. John Robson Silver badge
          Angel

          Re: Nice to see

          I never use them... I have a proper tool set.

        3. Sam 15

          Allen Keys in S P A C E !!!

          Don't loose those little stick-on plastic feet.

      2. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: Nice to see

        "I'd have thought that was obvious."

        With some technical background, you would see that. In places where the commetarders are from the liberal arts side of the campus, 3D printing is a magical process that can make anything from anything. The expectation is that humans can go to Mars with a hold full of 3D printers and just make whatever they need.

        I wish there was cheap 3D printing when I had my manufacturing company. It's dead useful now for the product development work I do and some niche products I make. The issue is the storage cabinet full of different filaments and resins that allow me to pick a material to fit the job. I mark that stuff up and charge it to a job by the roll/liter, but it still takes up space. I also charge extra for color or I'd have to add on the shop for more storage space.

        Common voltages, connectors and canisters/tanks is a good idea. If it's a given that whoever sent the items retains ownership and can sell bits and bobs later on, that would mean those parts could bring in some income or could be opened up for whomever wants to salvage them. If every Oxygen tank had the same fitting, it's much easier to sell/share. As the people that would be reusing them will be more trained, a common fitting could be used for any tank that stores non-toxic gases. When it comes to hypergols, it can pay to be a bit more specific.

        1. John Robson Silver badge

          Re: Nice to see

          "a common fitting could be used for any tank that stores non-toxic gases. When it comes to hypergols, it can pay to be a bit more specific."

          There are ways to have common connectors where there is some slight change to ensure that you can't use a subset.

          The obvious example in my head is the IEC C13/C15 connector - the notch for "high temperature" variants

          But I'd have no issue with the two different hypergols each having a different, but still standardised, connector...

          1. MachDiamond Silver badge

            Re: Nice to see

            "There are ways to have common connectors where there is some slight change to ensure that you can't use a subset."

            I'm thinking about there not being loads of tanks to choose from so making it no problem to reuse a Nitrogen/Helium tank to store Oxygen without needing to match connectors would be easiest. That connector should be different than the one on a tank holding MMH which might also need to be unique to prevent booms.

  2. Bebu sa Ware Silver badge
    Big Brother

    "Astronauts will get to self-assemble lunar base"

    Given the ga-ga American mindset they will likely contract another nation that has already set up shop there to provide coolie labour. /s

    More likely to clean up the mess left by manifest US fuckery.

    1. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: "Astronauts will get to self-assemble lunar base"

      Then in a few decades complain how “another nation” has stolen US jobs etc. and how unfair it is they own all the (lunar) scrap heaps…

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "Astronauts will get to self-assemble lunar base"

        Joking aside, this may actually be what is going to happen.

        We don't see it reported much; but it appears China is quietly beavering away at space tech as well, and there's quite a lot of engineering knowledge there. The US didn't allow them to partake in the space station gig, for instance, so they have their own and the US isn't making any money off it as a result (which is probably what they resent most).

  3. Dinanziame Silver badge
    Windows

    But why?

    The post is required, and must contain letters.

    1. Headley_Grange Silver badge

      Re: But why?

      Bagsies on the south pole.

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: But why?

        "Bagsies on the south pole."

        You can have the south pole. The change in orbit to get there is a problem. The US program needs to put at least one mission down around the equator to prove they CAN do it again. After nearly 60 years, they are lunar virgins once again. They need save the swinging from the chandelier sort of sex for later and just go for the plain ol' missionary position to get back in the groove (so to speak). Little blue pills aren't going to help for this.

        1. Vulch

          Re: But why?

          You don't need a "change in orbit" to reach a Lunar pole, when leaving Earth orbit you just aim your trajectory to take you over a Lunar pole instead of the equator. Energy requirements are utterly trivial.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: But why?

        Note that they want nuclear reactors too. This means they can declare an area a hazard zone and effectively claim it. I forsee these reactors will be declared very hazardous and require very large exclusion zones.

        1. David Hicklin Silver badge

          Re: But why?

          > Note that they want nuclear reactors too

          Space 1999 anyone ?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: But why?

          I suspect the moon is where we'll see Thorium reactors as standard. Much safer, low amounts of waste and super efficient. Weight matters, so if you have to send up 100kg of fissile material to get the energy of 1kg (current model) versus the energy of 99kg (Thorium) I think that decision isn't even hard.

          Although, knowing the US they probably want plutonium generation for bombs too, and that means the 'traditional' model with all the disadvantages that brings :(.

    2. Eclectic Man Silver badge

      Re: But why?

      "Because it's there."

      George Leigh Mallory

      https://www.thisdayinquotes.com/2024/03/because-its-there/

    3. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      Re: But why?

      Isn't it obvious? Trump has shown his determination in perpetuating the fossil fuel industry but oil is a finite resource. A renewable source is required: whale oil. Whaling has not been banned on the Moon and Oceanus Procellarum must be well stocked because whaling ships have never made it that far. Another opportunity that springs to mind is long term storage of high level nuclear waste. I am sure plenty more equally valid reasons can be found.

      1. John Robson Silver badge

        Re: But why?

        Long term storage of waste isn't really a problem well served by even a small risk of that waste being distributed across a large portion of the atmosphere.

        1. Al-ba-tross!

          Re: But why?

          Do you honestly think that would dissuade the type of people running this shit show?

        2. Roland6 Silver badge

          Re: But why?

          But if the waste is distributed across a large portion of the atmosphere, the concentration of waste at any single point could be below the “danger to life” threshold….

          1. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: But why?

            To the down voter, I suggest you look to US history circa 1950~1960 when at one point it was deemed okay to dispose of some types of toxic waste by coating crop seeds in it (I think it was mentioned in Rachel Carson's book Silent Spring). These naturally got distributed over a large area, so that at any one point the concentration was below "natural levels"....

      2. andy gibson

        Re: But why?

        I reckon he's watching the latest series of "For All Mankind"

        1. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

          Re: But why?

          IAVO. The actual sources for my proposals are here, here and here.

  4. An_Old_Dog Silver badge
    Joke

    Later, On the Lunar Surface ...

    Commander: "Let's move it, Lieutenant! This habitation module must be assembled completely and correctly before any of us get to sleep."

    Lieutenant: "Why do I have three #4 bolts, and no #2 bolts?! There is supposed to be two of each!"

    1. Mike 125

      Re: Later, On the Lunar Surface ...

      In space, no one can hear you scream:

      "It's fine. Just don't try to move it- ever!"

  5. SnailFerrous Silver badge

    Obligatory mention of the missing allen key in the shipment. Hope the lunar base contractor takes more care checking the packing list. Or dropping the only allen key in the lunar regolith and all the astronauts on hands and knees trying to find it. Better make it a bright, contrasting colour.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    3...2....1....

    Cancelled.

    It'll get cancelled as soon as the startup/discovery slushfund has been consumed by various party donors.

    Always seems to be the way. I wish it wasn't but...

    1. Anonymous Coward Silver badge
      Alien

      Re: 3...2....1....

      Dirty Donny has messed up the war part of making a name for himself in history, so pioneering a lunar colony may well be on his list of things that he'll actually support.

      Now, if only we can get him to build a golf course up there and give him a one-way ticket....

      1. John Robson Silver badge

        Re: 3...2....1....

        If NASA got even a tiny fraction of the budget that gets spent on munitions...

        Where could we be now...

        1. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: 3...2....1....

          "Where could we be now..."

          And what we could know now. NASA does/did a lot of science. Stuff like measuring ocean levels, temps and currents. They've come up with ways to analyze crops and soil moisture and the amount of rain falling on rain forests through gravity measurements. Somebody asks a question, "how could we measure this thing" and some very smart people find a way. They aren't constrained to anything immediately applicable because so many times finding out how to do something leads to being able to do something else as a byproduct that is able to be put to use right away for the betterment of people and the planet. ESA could also use a bigger budget for the same reasons... and ISRO and and and. Good ideas and great engineers/scientists are where you find them.

          1. John Robson Silver badge

            Re: 3...2....1....

            Yep - the where was certainly wider than merely location based...

    2. Al-ba-tross!

      Re: 3...2....1....

      Still getting downvotes from the supporters of fascism? Fascinating.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: 3...2....1....

        El Reg employs someone to ensure that every post gets at least one downvote.

        Trump fans volunteer for free.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: 3...2....1....

          See ^

  7. 502 bad gateway
    Headmaster

    “permanent” lunar outpost

    You should consider the nature of lunar regolith when assigning labels like permanent. It has a nasty habit of destroying vacuum seals and penetrating space suits… all very good things to have when trying to exclude the hard vacuum of space. Good luck with the long term for anything that contains moving parts.

    1. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: “permanent” lunar outpost

      "You should consider the nature of lunar regolith when assigning labels like permanent."

      That has to be overcome as a priority. I have a sample of JSC-1A lunar regolith simulant in a bottle somewhere. I've also some photos of it through my Intel Play USB microscope showing that it's not "sand", it's shattered glass. I have a much higher res digital microscope now that I'd like to use if I find that bottle again. It will be easier to find my Trinitite since I can track that down with a Geiger counter.

      1. Scene it all

        Re: “permanent” lunar outpost

        And it has an electrostatic charge, I think from being bombarded by radiation for millions of years, so it tends to stick to things. I remember somebody saying that maintenance of equipment is a major cost in construction and working in an environment with an abrasive powder everywhere will make it worse.

        1. MachDiamond Silver badge

          Re: “permanent” lunar outpost

          "And it has an electrostatic charge, I think from being bombarded by radiation for millions of years, so it tends to stick to things."

          There's a ripple in the regolith that moves with the terminator due to electrostatic charge. The jagged nature of the material also locks it together which makes it hard to scoop up or pound things into as it doesn't flow much.

          I'll have to see if anybody has done thermal and acoustic research in bulk. I recall that during the Lunar Regolith Challenge, they used most, if not all, the simulant they had for the sandbox. It's not a massive volume, maybe 3-4m on a side and 0.5-.75m deep.

    2. DS999 Silver badge

      Re: “permanent” lunar outpost

      It sticks because it is charged. Surely a suit can be designed with a covering material that repels the negatively charged regolith, and maybe have an airlock as part of its cycle blows some high speed jets of a positively charged gas that will attract any stray regolith that gets tracked in or stuck to an astronaut's suit or equipment, then that's cycled out and the breathable air is cycled in and hopefully very little regolith gets tracked in.

      You can't eliminate the regolith but if you can avoid bringing any inside you at least limit the places where you have to deal with it.

      They need something that will melt regolith, then they could create "sidewalks" when moving around well traveled paths outside the base. I imagine its melting point is pretty high, and energy will be at a premium, but once they get enough solar panels up there will surely be times when they have a surplus of energy.

    3. David Hicklin Silver badge

      Re: “permanent” lunar outpost

      Just send all those little automatic hoovers up there to hoover up a square mile free of it down to bedrock - they can even be solar powered

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: “permanent” lunar outpost

        "Just send all those little automatic hoovers up there to hoover up a square mile free of it down to bedrock - they can even be solar powered"

        There's that wee issue of Henry not working so well in a vacuum environment. There have been ideas floated to have a microwave paving machine trundle around fusing regolith into a solid crust. I haven't seen that tried and I'm not sure how much power it would take to run it.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: “permanent” lunar outpost

          Maybe a very large magnifying glass? There's not much in the path of sunlight up there.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Book club suggestions

    I highly recommend “A City On Mars” for anyone curious as to why this is such a doomed project, guaranteed to fail, hubris with an orange bronzer smudge all over it.

  9. Miko

    It is a little risky. What if the astronauts lose their one single Allen tool by, say, dropping it in some deep moondust?

  10. Pete 2 Silver badge

    While you were out

    > 21 lunar landings, delivering about four metric tons of cargo

    I wonder how much of that will be sent to the wrong "address"?

    1. Jellied Eel Silver badge

      Re: While you were out

      > 21 lunar landings, delivering about four metric tons of cargo

      I wonder how much of that will be sent to the wrong "address"?

      Sad thing is our 'leaders' much prefer to spend far more delivering four metric tons and more of explosives to places like Iran, Ukraine, Venezuala, Lebanon, Gaza and probably soon, Cuba. Those ventures have cost well north of $500bn over the last decade, and that money could be much better spent advancing humanity rather than bombing it back to the stone age. Plus while we waste money making rubble, craters and filling body bags, China & India have been merrily getting on with their own space programs. At least we've managed to do the Cold War thing and slowed down Russia's space program.

      Then again, the Cold War encouraged the Soviet Union & Russia to develop their RB-X rocket engines, which we used to be able to use for our own space projects. Then we sanctioned ourselves from those, and incentivised Russia to carry on developing bigger, lounder, faster rocket engines. It might be sharing that tech with China & India, but not us. SpacX & Blue Origin send out press releases about the power of their Raptors, Russia's engines might deliver more thrust and for less money. It's sad we haven't really exploited the post-Cold War peace dividend, and instead chosen to bring the Cold War back. Or maybe there's a cunning plan to get Russia doing that R&D, and hope we can exploit it in the future. Russia has new ICBMs, which probably means new engines, which would be better used on cargo rockets instead of warhead delivery.

    2. Chet Mannly

      Re: While you were out

      Nah, they will just leave a 'attempted delivery, noone home, go collect it yourself at the PO' card :)

      1. MachDiamond Silver badge

        Re: While you were out

        They'll drop it anywhere and post a photo which will look like any other patch to "prove" it was delivered. The upside is if they do figure out where it is, it will likely still be there.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: While you were out

      I reckon that may be a reason for Bezos not winning the contract :)

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I’d love to see it happen

    But it won’t.

    This is just more bluff and blunder from the Orange eejit.

  12. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

    IKEA

    Are they planning on sending up hot dogs and Swedish Meatballs too?

    1. 502 bad gateway

      Re: IKEA

      I hear space food is just as yummy as IKEA meatballs… perhaps the space going version can be rebranded to meat modules :)

      1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

        Re: IKEA

        NASA[SNSA] can fund the development of the space going version

    2. Captain Slog
      Coat

      Re: IKEA

      I'm sure the Clangers will enjoy those along with their Blue String soup and the Iron Chicken will love the allen keys!

      I'll get me DJ...

    3. Simon Harris Silver badge

      Re: IKEA

      What about the mini cinnamon pastries? We had to stop buying those when my wife and I were polishing off whole packets of them on the short drive home from our local IKEA.

  13. Andy Non
    Coat

    Houston we have a problem

    Thank you for all the plastic, metal and glass but we are missing a 3 inch No 5 bolt, can you rocket one up please, maybe Amazon Prime delivery?

    1. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: Houston we have a problem

      "Thank you for all the plastic, metal and glass but we are missing a 3 inch No 5 bolt, can you rocket one up please, maybe Amazon Prime delivery?"

      It's funny to think about, but it's more likely that the thing will be constructed in a clean room, laboriously checked and then disassembled with everything accounted for with a spares kit included rather than mass produced with the parts never having been fitted together before being flat packed.

      Maybe test landers can be sent loaded with all sorts of hardware as ballast. Keeping to common sizes would help. Steel would be a good material too so if the lander sets down a wee bit hard, all of those parts can be found with a magnet.

  14. Simon Harris Silver badge

    Moonfall drones?

    What possessed them to name their drones after one of the worst films in recent science fiction history?

    Rotten Tomatoes says of it "Whether Moonfall is so bad it's good or simply bad will depend on your tolerance for B-movie cheese"

    1. Al-ba-tross!

      Re: Moonfall drones?

      I always thought "falling" (implying, "out of control") was something to be avoided whilst trying to land a spacecraft, not something that inspires confidence.

  15. TheCobbler

    Moonbase Alpha

    How the hell are they not going to all it Moonbase Alpha? And forget about drones, Tony will pilot the Eagles.

    1. The Oncoming Scorn Silver badge
      Pint

      Re: Moonbase Alpha

      Leave Tony to brew the beer...

      Only one man I'd trust with the Eagles & that's Carter.

      1. TheCobbler

        Re: Moonbase Alpha

        You are correct sir.

    2. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: Moonbase Alpha

      "How the hell are they not going to all it Moonbase Alpha? "

      Elon is already calling "his plan" as that so nobody else is going to. Place your bets on which character set will spell out the official name of the first moon base.

  16. AbeSapian

    Flat Pack

    I hope the instructions are a little better than cryptic pictures with poorly identified parts.

    1. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: Flat Pack

      "I hope the instructions are a little better than cryptic pictures with poorly identified parts."

      It's a government project. Climbing the stack of paper work would get you half way to the moon by itself.

  17. JimmyPage Silver badge
    Stop

    Astronauts ?

    Surely this is a perfect use case for robots ?

    1. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: Astronauts ?

      "Surely this is a perfect use case for robots ?"

      The abrasive nature of the regolith will be a giant problem for mechanical things.

      1. lglethal Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: Astronauts ?

        The Meatsacks in their Space Suits wont find it a whole barrel of laughs either...

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Flat Pack

    Send up teams of husbands and wives.

    The men can get all sweary and frustrated during construction and the wives can step in with useful advice.

    It works in my house.

  19. David Hicklin Silver badge

    Packaging

    What are they going to do with all the cardboard packaging not to mention all the other stiff IKEA uses.

    1. MachDiamond Silver badge

      Re: Packaging

      "What are they going to do with all the cardboard packaging not to mention all the other stiff IKEA uses."

      Same thing I use it for, CAD (Cardboard Aided Engineering).

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