That old phone in the kitchen drawer could save an industry

Secondhand phones sales are booming - relatively speaking - and the industry has rising inflation, AI bloat, and consumers' growing apathy toward overpriced new handsets to thank for it. Counterpoint Research forecasts a 12 percent year-on-year bounce in pre-owned handsets in 2026. Android phone Phone users know when to hold …

[NoneSuch]

I knew that Motorola flip phone would be worth saving.

[elsergiovolador]

If you had Startac, you knew you made it.

[GBE]

Sure was nice being able to read the screens in the sun.

I sort of miss the monochome LCD screens that were easily read in bright light.

Though I do remember one of my old flip phone's screen was oriented the "wrong" way. When wearing polarized sunglasses, the phone's screen was solid black unless you held it sideways.

[The Oncoming Scorn]

Re: Sure was nice being able to read the screens in the sun.

It’s the wild colour scheme that freaks me. I mean, when you try an’ operate one of these weird black controls which are labelled in black on a black background, a small black light lights up black to tell you you’ve done it. What is this? Some kind of intergalactic hyper-hearse?

[Yet Another Anonymous coward]

Re: Sure was nice being able to read the screens in the sun.

No, they just let really "cool" Apple designers do the UI

[AndrueC]

Re: Sure was nice being able to read the screens in the sun.

Presumably learnt their trade in the same place as the LG designer who felt that small black writing was perfect to label the programmes on my dark brown washing machine and that when it was finished the best thing to do was go completely dark and not show any indication that there was clothing inside that needed removing.

Perish the thought that useful information might mar the beauty of the dark brown façade.

[Slow Joe Crow]

Re: Sure was nice being able to read the screens in the sun.

Disaster Area stunt ship theme?

[Gene Cash]

Shoot, my Motorola Droid still boots and the battery works for at least a week on a charge, which is rather impressive.

I think the Droid was the Milestone in the UK?

Of course Google Play just laughs at me because it's still running Froyo.

Anyway, the damn thing is solid metal and weighs nearly half a pound. I'd give a kneecap to have another one. That slide-out keyboard was the best.

[segfault188]

Yes, the Droid was called the Milestone in the UK. I called mine the Millstone because of its weight, but it was solid and I liked the physical keyboard.

Later on I installed Swype as a replacement for the standard soft keyboard. I loved swiping words quickly while my iPhone-using colleagues tapped away one letter at a time. I can't believe that people still do that these days.

[GBE]

Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

I always keep my phones until they are no longer getting any security updates. Is there really a market for devices past the support EOL date?

[fnusnu]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

You'd really hope not...

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

If too many folks find out about the backdoor, companies release new backdoors disguised as security patches.

If phones were 100% secure, they would be illegal.

Just assume your device is always compromised and act accordingly. Then you don't need the cope mechanism of security updates.

[BartyFartsLast]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

Is it time for a meds check perhaps?

[Throatwarbler Mangrove]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

Depends. Can the phone be rooted and have an OS such as Lineage installed? Alternately, if the phone is just being used for calls and light texting, who cares?

[GBE]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

Can the phone be rooted and have an OS such as Lineage installed?

Would you recommend to some random friend or family member that they buy a used EOL phone that somebody else had "refurbished" by rooting it and installing third-party firmware?

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

Indeed, and it's not possible anyway on many devices - e.g. I believe the Knox security system on Samsung devices prevents it.

[doublelayer]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

It would depend how trustworthy the installer was. If the installer was me and the user was my friend, I think they would be fine with that. Therefore, if there was a place that specialized in doing this which we had a reason to trust, that would make sense. Now if you tell me it's an unknown distributor on an online marketplace or an unknown person who operates out of their car, not so much.

[M.V. Lipvig]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

True, but a rooted phone is rooted, so presumably could be wiped and reloaded again without whatever maliciousness 5ChinaIs* installed on it.

*5Is, or 5 Eyes, plus China which covers most of the watchers

[doublelayer]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

Yes, if they conveniently provide me all the information needed to build my own version from known good sources, but if that happened, I could do it myself. If I gave you a device with custom firmware but you couldn't replace it with anything else because you don't have the information necessary to build it, you don't know what is in that firmware even though you have more access than you'd normally have.

[petefoth]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

You don't need to root a phone ti install custom ROMs such as LineageOS and others based on it. Unlocking the bootloader is all that is required.

[doublelayer]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

That's kind of true in the narrowest of senses for "true" but completely irrelevant. If you have the power to install a custom ROM, you've got all the power that rooting provides, both over the original software and over the new version you have installed instead. That's true whether or not you choose to root the result and make that power easier to use from the system after you've written it. I think that this power is one any owner of a phone should have if they want it, so I don't mind, but if someone considers rooting to be a risk, then pointing out that you didn't technically root makes no difference when the thing that wasn't rooting was more powerful than rooting would be and could do all the same things.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

If the phone cannot be rooted then by definition it is compromised.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

Likewise - only replace them before the end of security updates if they develop a fault or get broken!

Do the same with all the work ones and I've not come across any market for battered, low-to-mid-range Samsung handsets which are no longer receiving updates!

[GBE]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

Likewise - only replace them before the end of security updates if they develop a fault or get broken!

Yep, and I'll even fix some faults/breakages. My Pixel 6a is currently on its 2nd screen and 2nd battery. I did the screen replacement myself, and Google paid for the battery replacement as part of a recall. Hopefully it will last another year (or more if Google extends support). Many newer Android models are getting updates for 7 years, so that'll be the the goal for the next phone...

[Tron]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

Yes, because most of us understand that we are not worth the bother hacking. Plus, on balance, updates may increase your resilience. Certainly when it comes to Windows.

However, any increase in the length of time that phones are used will see the manufacturers announcing that there is a dangerous bug out there and everyone has to use the latest release, which won't work on any phone over a year old, or just breaking the OS with a 'security update'. Failing that, the government will demand new tracking/back door access, and instruct vendors to block or kill anything that doesn't have it, baked in to the firmware. National security, public safety and protecting the children etc.

The whole e-waste/environment thing simply doesn't matter if the government want you to be more trackable. The US is getting a taste of this - only US routers/pocket WiFi with USG back doors. That will soon be extended to cover US phones and US operating systems.

A pity as we could do most of what we want to do on a 20 year old W7 machine and still be using a 15yo phone if we could replace the battery, and it hadn't been killed by its manufacturer. Think of the amount of money/e-waste that would have saved.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

Christ, it's not about being "worth the bother", your data might be worthless, but your identity, your connectivity, your mobile plan and your bank details absolutely are if you're building a botnet, a spam farm or just plain outright stealing money plusany other nefarious reasons why you might want to control tens of thousands of internet connected devices. .

[DS999]

Don't some cheaper Android brands stop delivering updates

After only 2 or 3 years? I really doubt that resellers are keeping track of which ones get updates and which don't, nor do the customers buying a refurb for $99 (that you'd probably get $20 for) know or care about that stuff.

Almost all attacks on smartphones are targeted, and even the few that aren't won't want to bother with low end or out of date stuff because they aren't likely to have fat cryptowallets to empty or whatever it is they go after.

[PCScreenOnly]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

But I bet the banking apps all work quiet happily, regardless of the risks

[Luggagethecat]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

No they wont :( not even the bloody McDonalds APP!

[Robert Carnegie]

Re: Market for devices past firmware EOL date?

In the past, I've seen out-of-support Apple phones and tablets on scale in CEX shops, very very cheap.

I would not try to use them "safely", as some hacks have been as basic as sending a malformed text message to a phone. But I think that that particular mean trick has been blocked on phone networks. Or you could keep the device offline for most of the time, and just occasionally go onto wi-fi and download apps - until support for that was removed as well.

[billdehaan]

The problem is carrier support

I still have every cell phone I've ever bought, going back to 1999. That's fourteen phones in total.

Out of fourteen phones, three are DOA because of the phone. The 2004 Nokia 6585's speaker broke, making it useless. The 2005 Nokia 6275i's screen broke, and the 2017 Samsung Note 4's battery died. Although I replaced the battery, it turned out to be a problem with the phone's charting circuitry, and I was quoted 70% the cost of a new phone to replace a phone that I'd been gifted in the first place.

Out of the fourteen phones, eleven remain 100% functional. However, only three can connect to a cell tower in Canada in 2026. No one expects the analogue network that the 1999 Nokia 282 used to still be maintained, but with the termination of 2G and 3G networks, anything not capable of 4G or later is unusable. So that old flip phone from 2000, or 2010, or even 2015, may no longer work.

[DS999]

Re: The problem is carrier support

They would obviously only want LTE capable phones so I don't think carrier support is an issue. They don't want you to drag out a circa 2007 Razr, they are looking for the 2021 off brand Android that had zero trade in value when it was replaced a few months ago so it got stuck in a drawer.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The problem is carrier support

With the shutdown of 2G and 3G networks, you often need a phone that supports voice-over-LTE, not just data-over-LTE. There were a few years where phones supported DoLTE but fell back to using older circuit networks for voice calls.

I wish that you could use VoWiFi functionality over DoLTE networks, but that doesn't seem to be allowed.

[david 12]

Re: The problem is carrier support

you often need a phone that supports voice-over-LTE, not just data-over-LTE

And in Australia, a whole tranche of those phones has recently been disabled by government regulation and network identification.

Because of configuration or software problems in their mandated 000 / 911 / 999 / 112 carrier-agnostic network-fallover behavior.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The problem is carrier support

There's a whole bunch of current phones that support voice over LTE and voice over NR, but the facility is blocked by the phone companies unless the phone is an apple, google, or samsung.

That needs to be stopped!

[DS999]

Re: The problem is carrier support

I very much doubt they are blocking, it is far more likely they are whitelisting models explicitly. Most carriers will sell you Apple/Samsung/Google phones because they are the most popular ones that are the most in demand by customers. If a carrier sells a phone they will have tested it against their network, and have confidence that it works.

If you BYOD a model the carrier doesn't offer then they won't have tested it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The problem is carrier support

Sorry, I phrased it badly. Yes, it's a whitelist not a blacklist, but if it's done dishonestly, it has the same effect. Surely you just need to make sure the radio chip does the right thing, and not have to list specific phones. It wasn't like that with 2G or 3G. It's hardly how standards work. It seems more and more that VoLTE and VoNR were a bodged afterthought.

I don't mean to be negative, but there are already many posts from people (particularly in America and Canada) accusing carriers of using the whitelist as an excuse to lock you in to the devices they sell.

https://forums.redflagdeals.com/how-dumb-volte-carrier-whitelisting-2556465/

https://www.howardforums.com/threads/help-me-understand-device-whitelisting-in-the-4g-volte-era-verizon-vs-att-vs-t-mo.1926648/

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: The problem is carrier support

I kept all of my phones, too, even the ones that broke, and my very first one, the Sony "Mars bar" bought in 1994, an amazing phone at the time.

https://www.mobilephonemuseum.com/phone-detail/sony-cm-h333

I kept in my front trouser pocket when I went to the pubs and parties with friends. It was somewhat bigger than a Mars bar. Some young ladies asked me if I was pleased to see them...

[Snowy]

Apps

With the increase of "there is an App for that" an unsupported device may as well be a dead device and some Apps will not install on a rooted device.

Sure if you only using it for calls and text an unsupported phone may do but you maybe better off with feature phone rather than a smart phone.

The Nokia 105 2nd Edition Mobile Phone £13.50 cheaper than fish and chips :)

[trevorde]

Not saving me

Just sold three 7 year old Android phones on eBay. They still worked well, with decent screens and great battery life. It was barely worth my time doing the listing, packing and postage but at least my wife was happy they were gone.

[F.Domestica]

Old phones aren't very attractive...

... When manufacturers prevent upgrading them to current OS releases.

Of course, if they could be upgraded, folks might not replace them.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Old phones aren't very attractive...

Indeed, the only reason I replaced my perfectly functional Honor 9 was because too many apps were whinging about Android 9.

[Luggagethecat]

The problems isnt the phone sitting in the drawer, its the software support for the device,

I have a 2019 Samsung A70 which is actually still running great except for the battery, however no software updates, I managed to get Lineageos installed after a push and shove,

As a tech person this achievable and wasnt too difficult, but I wouldnt expect a lay person to be able to do it!

Problem solved I though! No because its not running Samsung official OS I cant use many apps as its seen as a security risk....

[heyrick]

I have some old solid phones around with great battery life, can be dropped and the world doesn't end, and they're nice and small (and can survive being sat on).

What they couldn't survive, however, was the demise of the 2G network. So they're now relics of a simpler past.

[david 12]

great battery life, can be dropped and the world doesn't end,

And a physically robust charging plug/socket.

It's an argument for wireless charging: The USB socket on my phone is now failing, having outlasted several USB cables.

[Emir Al Weeq]

>can be dropped and the world doesn't end

Not an old Nokia then. Drop one of those and it's more likely to survive than the planet it hits.

[PhilipN]

Going out on a limb here but..

..how about a phone that just makes phone calls? [Yeah I know I know}

[doublelayer]

Re: Going out on a limb here but..

It wouldn't be hard to build, assuming you could find enough people who care to buy it. I won't join you because I find some of the other things phones can do to be useful. Most of the public seems to agree. We all have our particular desires, whether or not everyone else has them. Mine is small smartphones, one that has enough fans that a few models exist but not enough that you have a lot of great options to pick from. Yours, if you actually want something that can literally not do anything other than make calls, is, as far as I know, so unpopular that nobody has built one.

You can get closer to it with one of several flip phones. They can still do SMS and have some basic apps, but you can ignore that and start dialing immediately. Maybe that's close enough for your desires. If not, your desires will be harder to satisfy.

[Anonymous Coward]

Modern phones have crossed a threshold

At least for me. There’s no way I’m spending what they’re asking for a “phone”.

There’s very little justification for the prices of these “new” devices and very little that’s actually new about them.

[frankyunderwood123]

pre owned is a bit risky

I’ve been burned twice by top refurb companies, which will likely surprise nobody. But I’m also no longer keen on trusting ebay.

My last tactic was buying a new old model from argos of all places. They seem to hold old stock for years.

Picked up an iphone 13 for £400 last january, still going strong, will last me until I’m forced to upgrade iOS , at which point it’ll be decision time. Back to android or something else?

I guess it’ll be saying goodbye to banking apps, and going the lineage OS route on a new but old phone, maybe a fairphone.

[Jurassic.Hermit]

Re: pre owned is a bit risky

Exactly same as me, bought the 13 that way last year, similar price to you. Unopened old stock saves a fortune.

This year I bought a Mac Mini 2 Pro the same way, unopened box from 2023 and more than enough processing power for me with 32GB RAM and 1TB disk as well. Cost me 50% less than the equivalent model of today, full warranty etc.

[Anonymous Coward]

No thank you!

People use their mobile phones when having a shit - even in public cubicles where there is no immediate access to the sink.

[CorwinX]

I always have my previous phone active

Primary has the SIM with a number I've had for about 15 years.

Everything mirrored to both GDrive and OneDrive.

Secondary has a PAYG SIM, hardly used.

Daily, I switch WiFi Hotspot on on Primary. Secondary connects and syncs any changes down. Mostly books, music and backups.

If Primary went west in any way all I'd need is a replacement SIM and Secondary would be the new Primary.

[jjones83]

My retirement plan is apparently a pile of old phones in my kitchen drawer.