Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone As both Apple and Google introduce unwelcome changes in their phone OSes, here's a quick reminder that you do have alternatives to the Gruesome Twosome. The Keep Android Open campaign is gathering attention and support as the big red numbers on its page count down. The good news is that you do already have alternatives, and …
"Apple's age verification wants to scan a UK passport or driver's licence."
Did nobody tell them there are quite a few UK citizens who are entitled to Irish passports including my wife, children and grandchildren and a couple of those don't drive? I think the non-drivers both have iPhones.
> quite a few UK citizens who are entitled to Irish passports
Well quite. Including me. And when I got one, I let the British one expire.
Which I explained at length to Nationwide, but the crappy web-app it licensed only understands UK ones.
Nationwide wanted ID for this rotten broken verification tool which account holders are not required to have.
Its response: "well go into your local branch." The problem being that HQ closed that in 2018 and the next nearest ones are 3-4 hours on a ferry or a £250 air fare away. I asked if it was paying. It declined.
So I lost an account I'd had since 1986.
The Apple age-verification thing was only a footnote. I think my iThingy-toting mates told me that it won't take passports and wants card-sized ID: national ID cards, which of course Brits don't have, or driving licences, which a lot of people choose not to have -- I got my car licence at 38, although I had a bike licence by 21 or so.
The dual passport thing is real, but the Manx (and Channel Islands) passports explicitly say they are British passports.
The snag here may be that financial law is different on the Crown Dependencies. I don't know how that impacts _residents_ on the islands, but financial institutions have different reporting requirements related to the old "tax shelter" stuff (much of which is no longer valid, but the big UK banks often have subsidiaries that support non-resident account-holders).
As far as the US Government (as a random example) is concerned, the Isle of Man is a different country (using country code IM).
I was born in the UK. I live, and have status in, an overseas territory of the UK. Both situations allow me access to either passport. Yet, I have my Canadian passport and never had need of any other. I have no finances in the UK and since Brexit, there is no reason for me to want to stay in the UK for any amount of time that would exceed a tourist visa.
The UK passport thing is bureaucracy at it's best. UK based paperwork causes them less hassle to check authenticity and puts everyone in one large bucket for data collection. It also gives them a bigger stick by threatening to take that UK passport away from you if you don't toe the line.
The UK has been writing a book on 'How to Run a Country into the Ground.' for the last five years.
writing a book on 'How to Run a Country into the Ground.' for the last five years
Only the last five? Sure seems like longer than that from my vantage point across the pond. Unfortunately the US is speedracing the same goal and if allowed to maintain the momentum we've built up in the past year and change we'll pass you by in no time!
The UK passport thing is bureaucracy at it's best. UK based paperwork causes them less hassle to check authenticity and puts everyone in one large bucket for data collection. It also gives them a bigger stick by threatening to take that UK passport away from you if you don't toe the line.The UK has been writing a book on 'How to Run a Country into the Ground.' for the last five years.
Err okay, but it's the banks not the government. The Know Your Customer rules (which are EU-derived anyway) instruct financial institutions to take vaguely defined appropriate steps to verify identity, for money laundering purposes. The rules don't force them to use UK passports or any other specific form of identification.
However a lot of the mainstream(*) banks purely as a business risk and cost decision decide not to train all their staff on the edge cases that require them to, for example, recognise fraudulent driver's licenses purportedly issued in Kazakhstan (or wherever), or deal with charities, trusts, business account, etc where they have to verify not just individuals but a non-person legal entity. Part of the problem is the culture in the UK for accounts to be no-fee so they're constantly cutting costs to provide a very basic service. It's frustrating but there are specialist banks to fall back on, for a fee.
Could the government force all banks to recognise foreign passports or other forms of ID? Sure, but them not doing so is hardly one of the better examples of the country being run into the ground. Most other countries you try to bank in you'll find the same, or often much worse situation where actual government over-bureaucracy is in play.
(*) Formerly 'high street' banks that are no longer on most high streets.
I visited the Channel Islands for a holiday a while back and they were fine with passports up to 2 years old - they just need some ID.
Also not see this on my iPhone but then again just checked and it was on 26.3.something. Not sure they have 100% of the blame as a lot of this could be the governments Online Safety stuff muscling in?
"You might want to get your UK passport reissued or you won't be able to enter the country."
Irish passport holders are exempt from that requirement - which is a good thing as otherwise it would call into question the UK's non-compliance with aspects of the Good Friday Agreement whereby anyone born in Northern Ireland is entitled to decide whether they have Irish or UK nationality, or both. The UK Home Office stubornly believe anyone born in NI has, at least, UK nationality which conflicts with the Good Friday Agreement which the UK signed.
What it actually says is [they] recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland* to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, but this doesn't seem intended to be quite the same thing as citizenship as the text continues and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.
There are obligations for each government to implement certain legislation but unless I missed it I don't see this issue included on those obligations.
I would read that as saying you could identify and be accepted as one, other or both and be a citizen of both. It doesn't address the issue of being a citizen one only. It might be a serious omission but it's what both governments signed up to.
* Defined as "all persons born in Northern Ireland and having, at the time of their birth, at least one parent who is a British citizen, an Irish citizen or is otherwise entitled to reside in Northern Ireland without any restriction on their period of residence."
"It doesn't address the issue of being a citizen one only. "
That is not the issue, the issue is that should someone in Northern Ireland identify as *only* Irish the UK Home Office still say that person is (also) a UK citizen.
The 2nd portion you quoted from the GFA document "their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments" refers to a right to hold both citizenships, it does not however state that such a right is automatically invoked/claimed (i.e. if I don't exercise my right to British citizenship then I don't have British citizenship).
Currently, you can get back in if you can give the an address in the EU country of your passport.
Recently (End of March) had to WhatsApp a friend’s French address to my son, so his companion (French, but with pre-Brexit EU right to reside in UK) could use it to complete the formalities to get through the airport border controls so they could come back to the UK from Spain.
I resisted getting a smartphone, or a phone of any sort, well into the 2010s, but at the insistence of my partner I finally broke down and got one.
Fortunate I did, since, a couple of years later, being able to call 911 (the US emergency number, equivalent to the UK's 999 and Australia's 000) while out for an early morning walk allowed me to be here to type this reply.1
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1 When your doctor tells you "You are a very lucky man" and you haven't just won the lottery, you take her seriously. Though, in a way, I suppose, I did.
"Nationwide wanted ID for this rotten broken verification tool which account holders are not required to have."
Nationwide are a mess. Their recent rebranding exercise (of logo and of statements and documents) resulted in PDFs that multiple Linux PDF viewers didn't like (it's funny to see from the metadata that they're using a Ricoh Linux-based tool to generate the PDFs).
Then again most, if not all banks, are a mess. Having a barney with Santander currently about conflicting information between what their system says and what staff in the relevant department say ("oh, just ignore where it says "XYZ" in the Online Banking, that's wrong").
For me (and I clicked "verify" out of curiosity, fully expecting to bail out when I hit a "provide your credit card details"), it basically said "oh, you first registered this Apple account fucking yonks ago, you're clearly 18" and cracked on. No ID required. I genuinely thought that was a nonsense, then realised by first phone was the iphone 3GS in 2009, and they assume I wasn't 1 when I set that account up.
That length of time made me feel sick.
While some/many Android Apps are compiled in a way that they work on both on Android and a myriad of AOSPs without modification (especialy apps for developing countries like mine were AOSP stuff is more prevalent), yet other Apps are tailored to Androd and a few Specific AOSPs (for instance, my AOSP TV has a bunch of Apps tailored to both Android and Tencent's flavour of AOSP, but no guarantee they would work on other AOSPs TVs that are not Tencent's), other Apps are made in such a way that they only work on Android propper (because they extensively use Google's propiertary libraries), therefore needing MicroG/MindtheGapps* to function properly.
But many AOSP phones and AOSP ROMs ship without MicroG or MindtheGapps to minimize legal risks. They expect the user to be smart enough to decide between the two, and then install the chosen one.
Telling a "normie" user of these Apps to use different App Stores (as the Google Play Store depends on Google Propiertary Services and Libraries) AND seek completely different Apps (and re-learn how to effectively use them) as an alternative, or to decide between MicroG and MindtheGapps and install it (and the Google Play Store) before using the APPs they like (with no guarantee that all the apps will work) introduces friction either way. Not insurmountable friction, mind you, but friction nonetheless.
As a matter of fact, last year, when I set up my new Razr+, I substituded all the Apps that I had from Amazon and F-Droid (on my Android KeyOne) with the same Apps from Google Play Store, precisely to minimize fritcion....
I personally would have no problem (did that a lot in the late stages of the life of my BlackBerry Q10, and I foresee another round with my AOSP TV**), but other people would be less inclined.
* MicroG and MindtheGapps are the most popular compatibility layers that emulate Google's Android closed Source/Propiertary libraries/services. Others exists, and may be more prevalent in the future, but for the time being, these are the biggest ones.
** That particular AOSP TV is so restricted in processing power, RAM and Storage, that for the time being I am making do with a Chromecast second gen, and using it as a dumb TV. I'll delay as much as possible the install of any Apps to let the AOSP ecosystem evolve, so that when I NEED to install something, I know EXACTLY what to install. Experimenting in the TV is frutratingly slow, so, re-working in a few months/years because I bet on the wrong horse, is not something I want to do.
I'm kinda fed up with Gtaphene (and its obnoxious lead dev).
While it rides on "privacy" and anti-google sentiment it happily promoted getting pixel phone because that was the only supported device (and only after google showed middle finger by stopping releasing the device tree they went looking for alternative but it's still not there). Another issue is that it doesn't do anything to improve privacy as it happily loads "google play services" when needed. It's all sandboxed and whatnot but it's still there relying on google.
And the lead dev has the temerity to criticise all alternative solutions (like mentioned "/e/") for not being secure or privacy enough (despite them actually being based on AOSP without any google stuff... hypocrite
I have been using GrapheneOS for years.
_wojtek's comment reveals they have no idea what they are talking about.
If you want to live without Google play services installed, then GrapheneOS makes it very easy indeed. In my case, I have a separate profile with play services installed (but normally disabled) for apps that need it. The default install has no google services installed.
I was disappointed the article didn't mention GrapheneOS because it is by far the easiest way to have a degoogled Android phone (but Pixels only, I admit). The documentation on the GrapheneOS website is superb, _wojtek clearly never read it.
The phones in this article do have slightly more storage.
I'm not interested in these Google-free phones with very outdated specifications. You can pull an old phone out of your junk drawer and unlock the bootloader. They usually get cracked after a few years even if it's not officially supported. De-Google it or install a supported AOSP fork.
Well maybe once upon a time but here in the land of the long white cloud (New Zealand) our 3G network has just been shut down and it turned out a lot of supposed "4G" phones actually fall back to 3G when making calls to 111 (the emergency services) and since you would likely only find that out in a situation where you tried to ring the emergency services it's made using random old phones a bit of a risky prospect.
I would greatly appreciate being able to ditch Google and all its works. Proprietary Android, despite various ways to tame its intrusive nature, is becoming unbearable. Google's planned tightening of control over users is egregious.
I am aware of means to jailbreak Google Android devices, and capable of doing so. However, I am reliant upon a banking application for handling daily finances and a self-investment stocks and shares ISA. The application is provided by Barclay Bank; it works very well. However, the bank's priority is security, as is mine; this entails trusting a device's operating system and the user's general savvy. From a security angle, Google's planned restrictions may be helpful. Should Barclays and other banks choose the easy option of denying use of their applications on the open source version of Android, or better yet, ordinary Linux, the inconvenience would be considerable. In the worst scenario, it entails running two mobile devices: one for banking, and the other containing one's free choice of software sourced from outside Google's control.
On my phone, and another couple of devices, the best utility software comes from F-Droid. There is no reason why commerce when deploying applications requiring enhanced privacy and security should not endorse its own collectively curated repository of software usable on open-source Android and ordinary Linux. This could entail agreements with mobile device makers.
The EU is detaching itself from reliance on software and Internet services controlled within the USA legal jurisdiction. The UK should follow suit. Doubtless, a large chunk of the remainder of the world entertains similar intentions.
In the worst scenario, it entails running two mobile devices: one for banking, and ...
I have an old phone sat on the desk who's sole function is to run the authenticator app for one online bank. I've refused to install Microsoft's authenticator app on my own phone for my work laptop - so I have to carry around a dongle for that as well.
If only there were some sort of open standard for authentication that people could use, perhaps one that generates new codes every half minute or so, instead of people having to install a different app for every business they do (or in my case, don't if I can avoid it) do business with.
Proton do a free authenticator, available as a smartphone app (iOS and Android) and for computers (all of Windows, Mac and Linux). It lets you optionally sync across all the previous, so OTP codes can be generated pretty much anywhere you like.
I was astounded to find it's even recognised by the dreadful gov.uk "One Login".
FreeOTP
-it's available in the app stores as well on github. Sponsored and officially published by Redhat
Replying to my previous post, but really applies to the multiple replies - clearly I should have labelled the sarcasm. The link should have shown that I am fully aware of TOTP, and hence the number of options for generating them - in the past I've used a command line option on my Mac, forget which one, but I see there are multiple TOTP options in the Ports system.
I already have an open TOTP based auth app on my own phone for my own accounts. My employer doesn't support using TOTP with out M365 accounts, therefore the only supported option is Microsoft's own proprietary auth app - or a hardware dongle (Yubikey). That's the annoying aspect, the number of cases where an open option isn't supported "because ...", especially when (in the case of the bank) they made no mention of it until well down the road to opening an account and having chosen an option which did not mention needing to use their app to use it.
In the worst scenario, it entails running two mobile devices: one for banking, and the other
No harm, somewhat prudent - you don't need to have two mobile accounts - connect the banking phone via WiFi - and if you do need to use it outside home, connect it to the mobile hotspot on the main device.
I kinda do hope that due to current state of Usania at one point we will get a proper de-googled phone (de-usanianed? ) on which I will be able to run all required apps (including banking) without them complaining about "device not being secure" (because it lacks Google Spyware Services)
The EU is detaching itself from reliance on software and Internet services controlled within the USA legal jurisdiction.
Not really. Some countries are reducing government backend systems reliance on American systems. There is no effort to effort to reduce private sector or client device reliance on American providers and AFAIK a trend to using mobile apps you that run on American big tech controlled devices.
"However, the bank's priority is security, as is mine"
If that were true you wouldn't be using a phone for banking, nor would the bank want you to.
Keeping your entire life finances on an easily stolen, easily compromised device and via a multitude of disparate apps that are invariably just a glorified browser, is asking for trouble.
Most UK banks attitude to even online banking is pitiful, like their "trusted devices" that are trusted merely by using an easily copied browser cookie.
I don't do anything financial on my phone. I only do it on devices where I control the environment, delete cookies, and via a physical wired connection.
> But can I run my apps?
> Well, probably, yes.
Not very convincing. Did you try a range of UK High Street banking apps? Because I'll bet you a tenner at least one does not work.
Without a phone that can run banking apps you can't approve purchases and for some banks won't even be able to login to their website.
Unfortunately correct.
In the Orwellian era that has now begun, we aren't really going to have alternative options that work.
You will have to capitulate. Your opposition can extend no further than hating your government for enforcing all this BS, and hating GAFA for 'only obeying orders'.
Inb4 anyone says you can vote against your government: They all do the same thing, under different brands. The OSA was Tory legislation, brought in under Labour.
This issue makes so that you need to have two of them. One "googled" for the mandatory apps, and one degoogled for your own data.
And the usually poor price/performance of these "non Google" phones means that you have to spend quite a lot of money for this dual phone setup, to have a "just decent" non-google phone.
As for the "official Google" one, you can get some low level one, because once it runs the mandatory banking and government apps, it's good enough.
But beware of the really low cost ones, they come pre-loaded with spyware. I mean, more spyware.
Same thing here (different country though) as the other commentards here. In our case the banks still supplied specific devices to authorise banking through their web interfaces. One is a UbiKey kind of device, the other one of those QR code reading TAN generators (picture a calculator thingy) that you stick your bank card in. However, this was initiated some years ago, and I'm not sure what they do for "new customers" nowadays. I have no doubt these methods only still work because they are too lazy to clean up their stack, especially when I see all other public instances, from your health insurance, gaz and leccy, public transport, your tax application, to buying a bloody postal stamp requiring "handy mobile apps"... exclusively. And let's not forget all civil servants getting a stiffy over the arrival of the digital wallet, swallow whether you like it or not.
The question is very valid though. Not surprising the massive marketing campaign to get smart phone use forced through labels people not wanting this/ non-smart phone users as "technically inept", too stupid, too weird, too old to use it. "Surprisingly" the fact that users might choose actively to not use this smart phone stuff is not even registering. Over here there are public organisations trying raise the point, but I have the idea they are just regarded as wack jobs, because if "you want to get to your own money, you will comply anyway. EVERYBODY will join the hive: Resistance is futile.
Up to the point they decide to grab you by the pussy and discontinue cash completely, you can still put it all in that mattress? ;)))
The high street branch of a major bank near me was replaced by a 'banking hub' in a cupboard in a sports centre. A service I wanted was not available via the app. It was also unavailable via the 'hub' which offered only pre-booked 'digital literacy' assistance and tied advice on poor value financial products.
It's increasingly the case that less-frequent transactions are unavailable by any route.
Unfortunately some banking apps rely on Google Play attestation, so fail even with a locked bootloader. Obviously this drives GrapheneOS mad.
https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/
Also, good luck with getting banking apps working in SailfishOS Android App Support, although I think they have or will incorporate MicroG to slightly increase the chance of apps being happier.
https://sailfishos.app/?category=banking
Not only banking apps - digital IDs one as well. In EU ID cards now come with NFC chips that can be read by specific phone apps to access government digital services. They need to access the NFC reader and the biometric access. Sure, cards also work with a PC card reader, but most users own a phone, not a NFC card reader.
Google and Apple walled gardens must be opened by laws, as long as they work and make money third party phones are only useful for a small minority who can tackle the issues.
I recently bought a Murena Fairphone 6. Prior to purchase I had a concern that I couldn't run my banking app as some refuse to play nice with /e/OS (see list at https://community.e.foundation/t/list-banking-apps-on-e-os/33091?u=urs_lesse).
As it happens my banking app & all others work perfectly & I'm loving being free of all the Google tentacles. I now just need to ditch Microsoft on my laptop but I have one important program protected by a complex on-line licence manager. I've not been brave enough to try running it under Wine.
"I now just need to ditch Microsoft on my laptop but I have one important program protected by a complex on-line licence manager. I've not been brave enough to try running it under Wine."
If you don't need that program all of the time, you can keep your laptop just for that. I have a Mint mini-pc whose only function is running a Chrome browser. There's a service I use in my business that is utter shite if trying to use any other browser. I don't want to infect any of my other computers with Chrome so I picked up a basic miniPC at an estate sale for $5 and reformatted it and installed Mint and Chrome. My Windows box sits on its own with no internet connections to run CAD/CAM software and uses SneakerNet to transfer files. The Cheesegrater (maxed out MacPro 5,1) is for media stuff (Adobe, DaVinci, etc) and the iMac is a daily driver. There's a Mini bolted under the desk that runs headless with my accounting program on it as it's main reason for life. I've been really happy with that accounting program, own it outright and know it really well. The company couldn't manage to drag the program past a certain MacOS so I have a Mini that had been sitting on a shelf getting a new lease on life. I am NOT going to run my accounting in "the cloud" any more than doing my taxes on somebody else's computer. Both of those are too sensitive to leave exposed. The point is that it can be very cheap to have computers dedicated to specific tasks. I have my main phone, a phone that runs the scanning app I use to make floor plans for customers and a CAT S61 with infared camera I use for troubleshooting electronics. Only my main phone has a SIM. The rest are just repurposed tools.
Good to know, regarding e/os. My own research also sugggests that e/os is by far the most practical option for degoogappleing.
I just wish that either Murena or Fairphone shipped to the Philippines (and don't get me started on Framework).
My only option is to find a used phone on the e/os compatibility list (not as easy as it seems here), root it, install and hope for the best.
A .gov.uk website providing an OAuth endpoint that an adult person could sign into using their Government Gateway login, and grant access to a “Confirm Over 18 Years of Age” scope, plus some non-identifying but persistent guid identifier, which a device/app can direct a user to?
Then device/apps can go to the definitive register of a person, ask that person is over 18 and user exposes no other data, not even a date of birth. No passport / drivIng id / photo or any other privacy-invasion-enabling data need be disclosed.
If it’s a UK law these systems have to obey, then the UK government should at least enable a way to definitively adhere to it.
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Let's call it what it is, which is installation.
Apple never allowed installation from other app stores, now they do with strings attached because the EU forced them.
Google always did, with one thread attached which was you had to download the store app app yourself and enable the "allow sideloading" toggle before installing it. Then they decided they could replace that with more strings that the EU permitted Apple which are developers must register for a fee and that the mothership can disable installation for specific apps.
As a way of placating the masses Google finally announced they would keep the "allow sideloading" toggle but it would require restarting the phone, waiting 24 hours before installation, and have an "allow for 7 days" and "allow indefinitely" option. I have no doubt that in the finest traditions of Silicon Valley frog boiling, the indefinitely option will disappear in two or three Android versions and the "allow for 7 days" option will disappear two or three Android versions after that.
Stupid banking, 2FA and government services that are not optional and don't work on a web page.
They need to be only installed from Apple or Google store.
They won't even install on older still supported iOS or Android versions.
Many won't install on a tablet, or a phone, with no SIM /eSIM that has no working phone number.
I thought that Pine64's recent decision to all-but move away from the phone arena - no more Pro, and no new device on the horizon, even though the pinephone is, by modern standards, low spec - was odd… They've probably been the leader in producing a much-needed pure Linux device (Purism was later).
I hope they can be persuaded to change their minds.
https://pine64.org/2026/03/24/march_2026_fosdem/#where-is-the-pinephone-2
IF the EU is actually serious about tech sovereignty, then they will need to champion - and sponsor - a fully open soure phone software stack.
I'd suggest it ought to be based on Linux, not AOSP, since Google seem to hold the reins there.
And they would need to encourage banks, governments, et al, to provide the apps which have been an impediment to adoption thus far.
Back when PDAs ran PalmOS or WindowsCE I excitedly awaited the Sharp Zaurus which was a PDF "based on Linux". And then it showed up and it was terrible. Because the OS does not matter as much as the user experience, functionality, and things you can do with the device, all of which the Zaurus failed at.
And that principle extends to smart phones and tablets. If the thing is not fit for purpose then it doesn't matter what powers it. And for phones apps are the most important thing of all. I've lost count of how many smart phone OSes have come and gone over the years. Some of these were open source, some closed, or a blend but they all failed because they lacked apps.
So purely from a pragmatic stance, the easiest way to get a viable alternative going is to fork AOSP and it has been done already with dists like LineageOS. But it's no guarantee of success. There have been forks of AOSP that have gone nowhere. Even Amazon's fork is basically nothing outside of Kindle sticks.
But I doubt Europe would create a phone OS since it's not their job. But what they CAN do is mandate what services the device interacts with, where it stores its data and potentially require the OS to support alternative backends / services. So for example they could force Apple & Google to silo their data in European servers. And they could force them to decouple things like AI, cloud storage away from their own services and allow the user to choose.
I think that's the wrong way round. The EU should mandate that banks, governments, etc... apps should be compatible with Alien Dalvik, Dalvik Turbo, and other third party Android runtimes and be available from the alternative European app stores. Then phone manufacturers will design their Linux OS or non-Googled AOSP variant around that requirement. That's Google out of the way and a very big barrier to buying a non-Googled phone or flashing a non-Googled ROM is removed.
Most people need apps for some aspect of their lives and a phone OS that doesn't support those apps is worse than useless. So I doubt Google is quaking in its boots about an exodus from its platform. Look how many times people have tried to fork AOSP and set it up with an alternative app store and it has flopped. Let alone other phone platforms where the story was even worse. Even Amazon tried forking Android and sinking billions and barely has a toehold.
The better way to hit Google is complain to consumer protection and anti competition bodies around the world, or class action lawsuits in countries with non-functional consumer protection, and get ready to slap them with large fines.
The better way to hit Google is complain to consumer protection and anti competition bodies around the world, or class action lawsuits in countries with non-functional consumer protection, and get ready to slap them with large fines.
Governments are bought and paid for by the corporations, so that's futile.
We see it with the global push for "think of the kids" age verification laws, the implementation of digital ID and the adoption of central bank digital currencies that those in charge of us are very much in favour of everything the tech companies are working to achieve.
Apple and Microsoft have both been on the receiving end of multi billion euro fines. Losing money does make them change their ways because it hits them where it hurts the most - in the pocket.
The same is true for Google. It requires consumer protection bodies to making very strong and clear statements that this is unacceptable and they're going to be on the receiving end of fines if they go through with it. Google won't give a damn if a miniscule % of users leave in protest because it's barely background noise. There is no rival platform other than Apple that hosts apps people use in their daily lives so its pointless to even thinking it is an option.
I'm on my second Pixel phone, an 8a running LineageOS/microG. I had to boot into the stock Android once to unlock the bootloader, but with no SIM or wifi. (Paranoid? Me?) I haven't come across any apps I need/want that don't run.
But I've still seen Google remnants. Checking for internet connectivity pings a Google server. The stock keyboard tries to connect to Google every few seconds, although it still works if you block that.
"The stock keyboard tries to connect to Google every few seconds, although it still works if you block that."
It's an insidious way that Google can prevent people from completely excluding them from their lives. Every little component piece of software has some beacon code built in. Just like all of the apps that want far more permissions than it would seem necessary to do what it says on the label.
My phone (Pocophone F1) has an old version of Android (10). Is it possible to just block ALL updates so the the existing software just stays at the current versions.
(I do NOT use any financial application on my phone so I do not care if this makes it impossible to install a banking app.).
<Is it possible to just block ALL updates so the the existing software just stays at the current versions.>
Even with A13 on my non rooted banking phone I can choose whether to update the apps via Google. Can you not do that?
You could also root it and add a firewall - AFWall+ or a non rooted version like Netguard or Rethink DNS to stop apps communicating all the time.
It's very hard to get uk service providers to allow voice over 4g / 5g on any android phone that isn't google or samung (or a handful of others)
So, it's not just the apps we need to check for compatibility. It's more fundamental when our perfectly featured 5G phones drop down to 2G for voice.
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Care to enlighten us who?
If your experience was universal, this page wouldn't be needed: https://www.simsherpa.com/networks/best-wifi-calling-volte
My phone is less than a year old. It's not a cheap model, but because it wasn't bought from one of the mentioned companies, it's "not on the list".
The problem with VoLTE and VoNR is devices have to be whitelisted. Instead of being universal, it's like "This site only works in IE6" all over again.
I presume you bought your phone from a service provider?
Not seen this. Have used Volla phones in the UK on 3 and Vodafone since 2020 without any problem. My banking app also runs without MicroG, let alone Google. (I contacted the bank's development team to congratulate them). Ok, these are mid range phones, actually reflashed Gigaset devices, but they are stable, and fit my use case, Without Google et al phoning home, my battery life is usually around a week, which suits me fine.
Can any of these OSs run banking apps?
Banking apps often refuse to launch if the OS is jailbroken etc.
As long as banking apps and other stuff runs, then a debloated OS is great
Fun Fact: Pixel 10 is PHYSICALLY faster than a pixel 7, but due to AI bloat, it actually runs slower and has less free memory on OS loading in.
"Your phone is about to stop being yours.
123 days until lockdown
Starting September 2026, a silent update, nonconsensually pushed by Google, will block every Android app whose developer hasn't registered with Google, signed their contract, paid up, and handed over government ID.
Every app and every device, worldwide, with no opt-out."
Why no mention of the one time 24 hour waiting period to allow sideloading of apps by non registered developers? They are technically "blocking" it but they're allowing a simple bypass method that anyone can choose to activate. Even the opt out can be said to be a direct lie because you CAN opt out of the block with a one time 24 hour wait.
Using alarming language is fine but using alarming language plus using half truths and conveniently omitting information that doesn't suit the cause as well as not providing the proper context is unethical.
I'm hate Google's latest move or the direction of Android but fighting with misinformation is a good way to signal to people we are willing to manipulate facts to suit out goals.
"Your phone is about to stop being yours.
123 days until lockdown
Starting September 2026, a silent update, nonconsensually pushed by Google, will block every Android app whose developer hasn't registered with Google, signed their contract, paid up, and handed over government ID.
Every app and every device, worldwide, with no opt-out."
Why no mention of the one time 24 hour waiting period to allow sideloading of apps by non registered developers? They are technically "blocking" it but they're allowing a simple bypass method that anyone can choose to activate. Even the opt out can be said to be a direct lie because you CAN opt out of the block with a one time 24 hour wait.
Using alarming language is fine but using alarming language plus using half truths and conveniently omitting information that doesn't suit the cause as well as not providing the proper context is unethical.
I'm hate Google's latest move or the direction of Android but fighting with misinformation is a good way to signal to people we are willing to manipulate facts to suit our goals.
Even if you manage to get a phone which can do what you need and doesn't spy on you, what about your car?
I've been reading up on this recently. A lot of modern cars have an infotainment system based on Android Automotive - which can be customised with or without Googlfication, but a lot of cars do include the Google elements (maps, etc). Some also include voice control systems based on Alexa (e.g. Mini). Things have moved on from the main risk being linking a phone to the car - most of the latest cars now have a full OS themselves, either Android or Linux based, and have SIM cards - and of course are increasingly locked down to prevent tinkering with any of the settings or core systems. Most of them now also have external cameras, and some cameras covering the cabin too.
How do you neutralise that lot? Pretty much impossible I would expect.
Perhaps an area which the Reg could do an article on?
In at least one European country it is now a legal requirement for all new cars to be fitted with GPS and a VoLTE capable 4G connection, over which the on-board computer will automatically notify emergency services if it detects a collision. You cannot disable this functionality; if you do the vehicle will no longer start, and even if you could your car would fail its next MOT. With this technology in place it is obviously trivial for "the authorities" to request your current location, and I expect fully automated speeding and traffic violation fines to be introduced any day. The onus will of course be on you, the driver, to prove that you did not do what the computer says you did. As far as I'm aware no open source or home-grown option for the operating system has been approved, even though such alternatives do exist - I think it's basically Android or QNX. In other words, you are no longer allowed to drive unless you accept the chocolate factory's Ts&Cs and feel comfortable with being tracked by them. Welcome to the future!
And by the way, that same country banned all handsets which lack VoLTE support from their mobile networks on February 2nd this year, and even threatened operators who continued to allow them on their networks with legal proceedings. The reason given, I kid you not, is that such devices will no longer be able to make emergency calls, presumably because the ability to provide simultaneous location data becomes mandatory. This means all 3G phones and 4G devices that lack a VoLTE supporting firmware were obsoleted overnight. How many fondleslabs ended up committed to landfill as a result we will never know, because their equivalent of OFCOM for some reason decided that information needed to be classified. This has of course happened without any public debate whatsoever, at least partly because the population of said country are already fully absorbed by heated arguments about immigration - an all consuming "debate" which leaves the private sector free to ransack what's left of their once proud nation without scrutiny in a textbook example of "divide and conquer".
Anyone using the Punkt MP02 the 'minimalist' one in the UK? That's basically how I use my landfill android anyway. Must stuff switched off, tethering for laptop once per Moon phase.
PS: " then freedom does cost" OA isn't kidding but then it is economy of scale and sales volume I suppose.
