Right to repair champ Framework punts modular 13in laptop with Core Ultra Series 3

Framework, maker of modular and repairable laptops, has spruced its line-up with a completely redesigned 13-inch model sporting the latest Intel CPUs, new components for its 16-inch system, and a dock that lets users add devices like a desktop graphics card. Image of the Framework Laptop 13 Pr - supplied The Framework Laptop …

[elsergiovolador]

Repair

Are they breaking so often that right to repair is the main selling point?

That said, the specs would be meh in 2024.

Why not just buy a used Lenovo.

[AJ MacLeod]

Re: Repair

Because used Lenovos are these days mostly rubbish. Mine had the "R" key fail with comparatively little use and Lenovo's solution is to replace the whole top case. The stupid hinged Ethernet socket is irritatingly flaky... the screen flickers if you open it to the wrong angle. The days of ThinkPads being solid and easily repairable are gone I'm afraid.

I've not been impressed by the design or build of any new laptop I've come across in the past five years or so... a Framework is at the top of my list for a replacement for the ThinkPad but I've not had any hands-on experience of them myself. Specs, it has to be said, are very low indeed on my list of priorities - low power consumption is definitely one of the most important of those.

[collinsl]

Re: Repair

I've been pleased enough with my T14 G2 (AMD version) but haven't looked at anything newer from Lenovo. These Frameworks sound decent but I have no case to upgrade currently and TBH I think I'd miss the TrackPoint.

[AJ MacLeod]

Re: Repair

I only need the TrackPoint because the touchpad on mine is so utterly dire that I leave it disabled! I was a fan of the trackpoint for a long time (especially on the IBM mouse I used for many years - it was way better for scrolling than a wheel) but for general pointer control I find it's less good than a good touchpad these days.

[John Robson]

Re: Repair

No - but you can upgrade and reuse components.

In five years just replace the motherboard, and get a case to put the old motherboard in to act as a server at home.

[elsergiovolador]

Re: Repair

Then they could make it fit in MacBook Pro case, much nicer.

[doublelayer]

Re: Repair

Nicer in what way exactly? Not in the ways that allow replacing components, certainly. In aesthetic pleasantness perhaps, but that's not generally the biggest problem I'm trying to solve when purchasing a computer.

[doublelayer]

Re: Repair

Some people want to use their laptops for quite a long time but get annoyed when a single failed part means it's uneconomical to do so. This is the computer that makes it easy to deal with that. That said, with the number of complaints you have about every single piece of hardware, I have no idea what you think is normal and must assume you just like complaining about things.

[IGotOut]

Re: Repair

@elsergiovolador

Hint: part of my last companies business was repairing desktops and laptops for commercial customers. Giving the fact they would repair hundreds a week, Lenovo, HP, Dell etc, your point is completely misinformed by your single person experience.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: Repair

Of the big three providers you list, which required the most / least repairs?

[Cubbie Roo]

Spec with lowest RAM-SSD it's 1,550 quid plus delivery, no GPU and bring your own OS . . . . makes the Mac Neo look like the bargain of the decade.

[DS999]

You can get Applecare+ on that Neo for $50 a year, and even if you have types of damage that require a deductible every year you'd save money in the long run. And if you keep paying long enough they might choose to replace it with a newer model rather than repairing the old one. If you don't drop your laptop all the time so damage is rare you'd probably come out ahead even with the more expensive (and WAY faster than this Framework) Macbook Air.

Repairability for its own sake is not a reason to get the Framework, because it is simply not cost effective versus the alternative of buying a similarly configured Windows laptop and buying a new one (and still coming out ahead on price) if something breaks you can't fix. Buying one is about making a statement regarding repairability. It is not about practicality.

[doublelayer]

That's true, the prices are very different. Also, the base config you're talking about has twice the RAM that any Neo can have, a CPU (Ultra 5 325) that's much faster than the A18 Pro chip running the Neo*, a display with a higher resolution (256 vs 219 PPI), and a touchscreen. Frameworks, all of them, are expensive, and as long as you search for a while, you can find machines from manufacturers with the same specs as a Framework for less. By comparing it to something much different, you have failed to make that very easy point, because using the same logic, I can proclaim that the Neo is ridiculous and let me introduce you to the real bargain of the decade: this landfill Chromebook which costs £99 and you really don't want to learn how that happened.

* The Ultra 5 325 benchmarks 80% higher than the Neo on multi-core. Perhaps you don't need that, but that doesn't make the price less justifiable, it makes you a less likely customer. The Mac with the most similar CPU performance-wise is the 8-core M4. Machines containing that are not as expensive as the Framework but a lot closer to that level than the Neo is.

[Cubbie Roo]

@doublelayer

ok but we're talking new compute, not 2nd hand refurbs . . . . . my Precision 7520 is a beast & cost me 160 quid. No-one is buying the Neo or the 13" Framework for specs; one is a desirable object at a reasonable price, the other is bought for ideological reasons that you'll pay a premium for. Both are equally valid, but to me it's a no brainer to go with the Neo and pocket the difference.

[doublelayer]

Your response makes no sense. Of course we aren't talking about secondhand refurbs; that's why neither of us mentioned it. Why did you bring it up now? Everyone buys a computer for specs at some level which is why those cheap Chromebooks aren't on every desk. Someone needs enough specs to do their job. If a low-end machine like the Neo is enough specs for you, then buy it, but don't pretend it's comparable to something with far higher ones when making comparisons of value because if you didn't need more, you wouldn't be considering the 13 Pro, and if you did need more, the Neo wouldn't be sufficient and would not be your alternative. Even with Framework, there are cheaper models with performance closer to the Neo, so you are deliberately picking two very different machines and the comparison will never be valid.

Your point that Framework customers are ideologically motivated is basically true, but it makes any cost comparison less important, which is where you started. You've used a bad comparison and now deny the usefulness of your own comparison. As I stated above, if you truly wanted to compare costs, you could have easily done so with a comparable Mac with the M4 or the M5 for the higher CPU tiers or a machine sold with Windows or Linux which uses exactly the same CPU. That would have been valid, and people deciding how much repairability is worth to them would be able to use that.

[Cubbie Roo]

My mistake, I assumed your £99 chromebook was a refurb. As others have stated the 13 Pro has a puny spec for the price, certainly not enough grunt to warrant the Pro moniker; both that and the Neo are basically netbooks but one is a desirable product at a third of the price......the other lacks a selling point to almost everyone.

[Anonymous Coward]

I want to like it, but spec limitations kill the deal

I'm glad Framework is innovating in this space. Seriously.

But my #2 laptop requirement is an amazing display, which they just don't offer (#1 is being Windows-free). Resolution alone kills the deal.

I refuse to settle when it comes to display quality, considering just how many hours I look at one. Probably close to how many hours I spend looking at meatspace. Logic here is very similar to investing in a very good mattress: you'll spend nearly a third of your life laying on it.

Also wondering why the latest 16" models don't offer Thunderbolt support. For a product aimed at power users, that missing feature removes more than a few from the potential customer pool.

(Multiple Thunderbolt also fixes the display shortcomings for users who spend more on external displays than the actual computer which drives them.)

[elsergiovolador]

Re: I want to like it, but spec limitations kill the deal

Nice to be not the only spec diva here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: I want to like it, but spec limitations kill the deal

Are we the divas, though, or is that the folks who need a CPU which supports bragging on Internet forums?

[Sproggit]

Re: I want to like it, but spec limitations kill the deal

Pretty sure that the reason that the Frame.Work 16 models don't offer Thunderbolt is because they're all based on AMD silicon... AMD, of course, is not certified for Thunderbolt 4 silicon...

However, having said that, the Frame.Work 16 *does* offer a degree of support for USB-4 [just not in all of the module slots] and that not only offers speeds up to 40Gb/s, almost all devices that use Thunderbolt 4 are also compatible with USB-4.

So I suspect that if you have hardware that provides Thunderbolt 4 connectivity - like say a portable NAS or storage solution - then you'll be able to get where you want to go with the USB-C module placed in one of the two provided USB-4 sockets.

[David 132]

Re: I want to like it, but spec limitations kill the deal

To clarify, because your comment might give the wrong impression, Thunderbolt is a royalty-free standard for silicon vendors and OEMs; devices have to be certified by Intel, but that hasn't stopped Apple from supporting Thunderbolt up to version 5 on Apple-silicon-based devices, or there being AMD-based motherboards that support it using an Intel controller. Any lack of enthusiasm from AMD is purely down to politics (and dare I suggest, NIH-syndrome?), not legal or licensing roadblocks.

[doublelayer]

Re: I want to like it, but spec limitations kill the deal

Fair enough on the display. I'm not sure what you need, but if the thing they have isn't good enough, there are no other options so that's a good reason not to buy it.

For Thunderbolt, the 16-inch laptop does have two Thunderbolt 3 capable ports (USB 4, which is based on TB 3). It doesn't have Thundderbolt 4 support because AMD processors don't, so no laptop with an AMD CPU offers that. I do wonder what you have that Thunderbolt 3 isn't sufficient for.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re: I want to like it, but spec limitations kill the deal

Displays, external network adapters, and storage.

When I'm already bought into that stuff then any computer has to offer compatibility. At this point, the actual computer is the peripheral to displays and storage.

Not sure why the listed requirements are what they are, but I'm not willing to find out the hard way, especially with negative reports otherwise. One device in particular requires TB4 for Linux but only TB3 for Mac. Internal SSD speeds become a moot point when the network is both faster and resilient.

[Vincent Manis]

I just received a Laptop-12, which I intend to use for writing and software development. I am not a specs diva, just want a good usable machine; though I would have liked a higher resolution screen than the Laptop-12's. When my DIY Edition arrived, I followed the extremely good assembly guide on their website (though it took me 45 minutes, rather than the claimed 10-20). My install of Arch Linux went flawlessly, as well. (Arch is in their second tier of OSes, but they still have a good installation guide). (There are a couple of BIOS settings that are needed that weren't obvious to me, though.)

Right to repair was the key thing that sold me on this machine. I can not only upgrade RAM and SSD, and—if Framework ever produces a more performant one—the mainboard, but also replace the battery. I am planning to keep this machine for many years.

Framework definitely is a bit pricy, but I would argue they give good value for money over the long haul.

[Vestas]

Hopefully your FW12 case won't literally come apart like so many (all of them basically) have :

https://community.frame.work/t/tracking-fw12-cracking-issue/72827/1058

I've had the dubious pleasure of a couple of Framework products now and the build quality is crap, as is the "customer service" outside mainland USA.

You will MOST DEFINITELY need the "right to repair" with FW kit.....

[rshpount]

Bad keyboard and monitor

For the Framework 16 they should have built a one piece normal 87 key keyboard instead of the side track pad monstrosity. For the Pro, I would never buy a laptop with a touchscreen. Also, please make home, end, page up and page down separate buttons. Finally, the plug in ports are a gimmick. Just make a laptop with 6 USB-C ports.