England's school phone ban gets teeth, just in time to bite no one Ministers are moving to turn England's patchwork of school phone bans into law, after peers backed fresh changes to the Children's Wellbeing and Schools Bill in a Monday vote. Peers backed, by 276 to 169 – a majority of 107 - a Conservative amendment to ban smartphones during the school day, effectively daring the government …
Love to see how that's going to be policed in England.
Hopefully it will be something really good, like giving parents a day in court and remove some money, as we all know that's the best way to deal with the scourge of phones in School /Sarcasm.
Joking aside, something with the best of intentions, but not sure how this is going to pan out, from policy, implementation and consequence management.
This is yet another example of disjointed thinking.
This year the DfE is pushing out the Issuing Education Records service. This is an app that allows a student to access their education record, KS4 exam results will be pushed out to the app at 11am on results day, and the app will collect together their education record as they pass through further and higher education.
All very nice.
To activate the app, the Year 11 kids have to come to my office, I call up their record and they scan a QR code using their mobile phone.
Do you spot a flaw if phones are banned in schools?
>> Do you spot a flaw if phones are banned in schools?
Next up will be an amendment. Fines and criminal records for children using phones. Don't think it won't happen. All it takes is some fascistic hand-wringers in the Daily Fail to put it on the front page.
More than one MP has been caught using a phone in parliament.
It depends how they decide to implement the ban part. My preference would be to create accounts that can be accessed from any browser, but if there must b an app, then it would be quite easy to have an exception for signing up for that service while continuing to have phones banned elsewhere. Whether they're smart enough to do that or not, they're likely not going to enforce it heavily if that's the situation where their ban is violated.
What could be a bigger hassle for school ops is whether schools will be required to confiscate and store phones, since students will likely still bring them for use before and after the school day. Currently, most schools I'm aware of allow students to keep them but not to use them during class, but if they have to collect phones every morning, it will require some system for storing them securely and making sure everyone gets the right device in the afternoon which, though possible, is likely to be an annoying exercise for everyone involved. I don't know whether there's a sufficient problem under the "penalties if you take your phone out" policy which justify the stricter one.
The school records service uses an app, like the NHS app, so not a browser based service. Sign up requires scanning a QR code, the QR code expires after 5 minutes, so we can't print them for kids to take off site.
As for logistics, we take phones off kids who are caught using them, they're held in the pastoral department, slotted into one of several hangng shoe racks, the kids come to collect them at the end of school, unless they were a total arsehole about confiscation, then their parent has to collect the phone - the parents usually leave it a few days, just to teach their offspring a lesson.
This system works for us, but other schools' mieage may vary...
Unless they need to sign up every week, it wouldn't be very difficult to arrange a sign up assembly line where students take their phones through, scan the code, then put them in the storage system that's going to be used every day for everyone who brings one. That storage system is going to have to scale much larger now that it's every student with a phone instead of those who misuse them.
I still don't like the idea of putting all of this in a phone-linked app because it makes it hard for any students who don't have a smartphone to see their data, and I don't consider using a parent's an acceptable solution to that. But that's probably not anything you can change, so my displeasure is recorded but unimportant.
"Do you spot a flaw if phones are banned in schools?"
Nope, because they will obviously be allowed to have it at that point because it is needed. It's not like they're going to be arrested if the teacher told them they needed to use it. Although this is a Labour Government and it wouldn't surprise me, I highly doubt it will cause issues in such circumstances in reality.
The consultation
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/growing-up-in-the-online-world-a-national-consultation
includes
whether the guidance on the use of mobile phones in schools should be put on a statutory footing
and ends on 26th May.
Why is anyone legislating before the closure of the consultation?
Responses take time. https://www.gov.uk/government/calls-for-evidence/use-of-evidence-generated-by-software-in-criminal-proceedings/use-of-evidence-generated-by-software-in-criminal-proceedings-call-for-evidence closed over a year ago.
> The current proposal is to ban phones from school sites
Not really, the amendment's actual wording is: "all schools in England must have a policy that prohibits the use and possession of smartphones by pupils during the school day." but it is also "to be implemented as the relevant school leader considers appropriate", so the app sign-up use case should be allowable.
Of course there is "provide for exemptions for medical devices" so any entitled little Timmy/Flossie who really wants to use their phone during the day will probably just get themselves a connected blood glucose monitor or similar...
"Entitled"? These days smartphones are used for everything from communication to receiving exam results (from the school, yes), so entitlement isn't really the right word. Some schools in the US even issue students with tablet/laptop computers to do homework (and other things) with. I'm not quite sure this 'no phones in school' law solves the right problem.
I work in schools.
Every kid above about Year 7 (sometimes as low as Year 5, and I've even seen Year 3) has a school email address for just such things.
I mean, if it REALLY comes to it and you want to be dark ages... you print out a QR code and send it home with them. Parents will be quite surprised nowadays and their first question will likely be "Why isn't this just on the School Portal?"
-- Do you spot a flaw if phones are banned in schools? --
I spot a clear reasoning vs correct reasoning problem.
Question: do these children simply turn up at your office at random times in the hope that you are there and not busy? If not then scheduling would seem to allow them access to their phones for this single purpose.
To activate the app, the Year 11 kids have to come to my office, I call up their record and they scan a QR code using their mobile phone.
Do you spot a flaw if phones are banned in schools?
Bit of a strawman. If phones are banned in schools as in "locked away at SoD, released at EoD" then it is trivial to unlock the box for the purpose of enrolling pupils onto a records system, same as it is trivial to ignore the fact children are not in their normal class on a school photo or vaccination day.
The problem would be any school using apps for in-school transactions like paying for lunch. Which would always have been a stupid thing to do since an awful lot of schools seem to issue ID cards and lanyards these days and such matters ought to be tied into that identity. But shiny sales demos turn heads.
Aren't results days generally non-teaching days?
I think the general idea was that they enrolled during term time so that they could access their results on the app on results day - particularly if they were away on family holiday or unable to go in to get their results in person.
However, same deal - unlocking exam-taker's phones from their normal storage for the purpose of enrolling on a relevant system is a perfectly reasonable thing to do and doesn't require them to have possession of their phones in normal class periods for the other 194 teaching days of the year.
For an example of an elected upper and lower chamber, look to the United States, with theit system that practically guarantees laws will not get passed.
Then Trump rolls in, criticises Obama's use of Executive Orders, then proceeds to rule via Executive Order.
Fucked up doesn't come close...
"Education minister Baroness Smith"
This would be none other than Jacqui Smith, once referred to as Whacky Jacqui on these hallowed pages? Obviously, she hasn't changed.
In theory, I can see the benefits of not having sprogs faffing around with their phones in class . But it's hardly a new problem - in my day, teachers regularly confiscated calculators, catapults and god knows what else we took to school, mobile phones not being a thing in those days.
In reality, it just isn't going to happen. We live in a connected, mobile first world where phones are more or less required. Plus, there is the reassurance for parents that little Johnny is always reachable, and in turn is able to reach them. My neighbour sees her kids off to school every morning, handing out whatever they need for the day, and routinely checks that they have their phones. This big brother nonsense isn't going to sit well with her, or countless other parents.
But, since it's being introduced, would it be too much to ask to extend it to the House if Commons? Get those incompetent seat polishers off their phones and maybe they will do something useful. Then again, maybe not.
and god knows what
In my year 8 class long enough ago the desks still had holes for an ink·well, one of the chaps would light a small fire under the lid of the desk to see how long before the teacher noticed the smoke pouring from the ink·well hole. About five minutes.
He met his Waterloo with the French teacher who was more than old enough to have been a mature SOE agent although her appalling French accent would have given Officer Crabtree a run for his money.
In any case whatever she lacked in sang she more than made up with froid, ignoring the plume of smoke and well past the five minutes the pyromaniac blinked first as the desk itself was catching fire.
Afterwards he gave up incendiarism and sitting down (for a while) only to go on to develop new forms of teacher baiting.
Using cellphones in class seems a bit feeble in comparison.
“for some reason spoke French with a Yorkshire accent”
Is this a meme?
I heard some school kids on the train mention this literally yesterday!
Or maybe there is a French accent in France that sounds like you’re from Leeds!
Actually I’m going to Lille soon so I will be sure to have a listen out!
Baroness Smith was a teacher in the 90s, so she's probably fully aware of what went on in your day.
The quote from her sounded to me like she was setting the ground for the Tories amendment to be overturned in the commons. I believe the government have something a bit more sensible in mind, like allowing lock bags or other technology to prevent the phones being used during the school day whilst still allowing to pupils to keep hold of them.
In reality, it just isn't going to happen.
It already has in various schools and parents seem to be coping.
We live in a connected, mobile first world where phones are more or less required.
Are they? How are phones required for a child to get from one classroom to the next? If phones are somehow a requirement to participate in school life then that is discriminatory against kids from low income families, and also the doing of the school. Who could simply... not make it a requirement.
Plus, there is the reassurance for parents that little Johnny is always reachable, and in turn is able to reach them.
It is patently inappropriate for little Johnny to be taking calls or Whatsapping people in class. We've managed a hundred years plus without kids being always reachable (except via the proxy of the school office). It's fine.
My neighbour sees her kids off to school every morning, handing out whatever they need for the day, and routinely checks that they have their phones. This big brother nonsense isn't going to sit well with her, or countless other parents.
Taking a phone to school is fine. They get to school, phones are locked in the kid's lockers for the day along with their bags, books and sports kit. They are not to be seen in class on pain of confiscation, to be collected at the end of the day. If a parent has a serious need to contact their child, they can call the school office. After all, if it's important enough to disrupt the class, it probably means they're coming to pick them up because someone has died. In which case the school needs to know anyway. If it isn't that important then they're being grossly disrespectful to the teaching staff who are trying to educate their offspring and get them through their exams. And if people don't see a problem with that, then fuck 'em. There are in fact a proportion of parents who are not entitled to a view on how schools operate, because they're fucking pillocks. That their kids get an education is generally in spite of them rather than thanks to them.
It's not really progressive that as a society, people are becoming incapable of planning more than 30 seconds in advance. "Sorry miss. It's important. I need to tell Mum I'm going to Kelly's after school, not coming straight home". No, they can do that on their way out. Or at lunchtime. They don't need their devices at their desks distracting them. And here's the thing, a phone has far more distraction potential than a calculator or even a catapult (which really only gets one go before being confiscated).
Do they hand them in on arrival and collect them when they go home? If not, they will have to leave them at home, so no phone for the trip to or from school, which would make them more vulnerable.
Whilst the phones are at school being held, they would have to be held in a secure place, and they will have to ID each phone's user, presumably with a name on a pouch.
Official policies would also require insurance to cover mishaps. If someone breaks in for a serious haul of phones. That's a lot of iMoney.
The schools near me I'm aware of have locked doors, but other than that, they are not fortresses. I'm not sure a bunch of locked student phones would be a very tempting target, but if it was, I wouldn't expect physical security to be the limiting factor to someone succeeding there. In the theft case, you have two other methods by which someone might attempt to steal devices. A student who already has access could try to carry out a mass-theft, or for that matter so could a staff member who would probably have an easier time of it. Even easier, students could probably quite easily steal one or a few devices that don't belong to them in the big afternoon everyone pick up a phone rush. The last one wouldn't be too hard to prevent but most methods would slow down the process which could be a problem when you have a lot of students and need to get them to their transport or after-school activities quickly.
so no phone for the trip to or from school, which would make them more vulnerable.
No, only a little bit more, probably more than offset by the risks of them wandering around on the way to/from school with their eyes glued to their phones instead of looking where they are going.
Most of the risks to children occur much closer to home. Stranger danger is hugely over estimated.
Never mind stranger danger, think of the "I've fallen off my bike and messed up my leg and I can't walk the rest of the way home" call, or the "The bus did that thing where it bypassed our village again and now I'm 5 miles up the road in a massive rainstorm" call. Both of which I actually made (On my massive Nokia brick) when I was at school in the 90s.
People seem to forget that the countryside exists and kids live there.
...that said I can't imagine any 2020s parent allowing their kids to make their own way to school the way I did in the 90s.
Does it follow that kids won't be able to use public transport via phone apps to get to and from the school? Or phone their parents to say what time the bus is getting back so they can be collected from the bus stop.
It makes sense that phones must be switched off and left in bags during school time, but some kids need them to actual travel to school.
My children's school using Yondr pouches. The pouch has a similar type of "lock" as a security tag, and as they enter the school they put the phone in the pouch and go to one of many Yondr devices that lock the pouch. The pouch is carried around in their bags all day, and as they leave school they go to the device which allows them to unlock the pouch.
There is severe punishment for anyone caught breaking the phone "ban".
It works really well.
How dare you come on here with your sensible approach!
Seriously this forum today is like reading the comments section on a newspaper website where people rage about things that many schools have had an handle on for ages.
The law, if anything stops gobshite parents threatening teachers because little Timmy needs to know if his mum got to the gym ok.
If you need to get hold of your kids during the day, fucking phone the school. It's not hard.
Yes, school budgets are pretty much always under pressure. The government's favourite trick is to announce to the world "teachers will get a 4% raise this year, well done us!", then to the schools "we'll give you 3% extra for the staff wages, you have to magic the remaining 1% as obviously thus far you've been wasting money on hookers and blow".
by pretending that vast swathes of it don't exist.
One would rather hope that there are allowances in here for special circumstances (both my kids had phone passes last week as I was rather unwell in hospital), and for those times when phones are a perfectly useful learning tool.
Surely most adults can use self control to not be addicted to their phones and actually do their job.
Citation needed. That's a bold assertion you're making there and not one that I'd accept at face value.
School is a great place for young people to learn things and banning mobile phones has educational value for later life.
"in my days" ( ;) ) we didn't have phones some there was no issue and a lot of problems mentioned in the comments ("but how would they call their parents!?" - simple, they don't) were simply not an issue. Kids could go about just fine without being on a tight leash of constant contact.
The problem is moving a lot of activities and services go the digital world, like mentioned bus tickets or test results (this I didn't get as I'm no familiar with the concept) some that's problematic.
But maybe a switch go regular plastic travel card for bus and optionally switching go feature phone, which obły allows you go do call and text) would be a sensible, middle ground solution? Cuts out distractions while still giving certain communication flexibility...
With so many public and private systems requiring the use of a mobile phone, it's no wonder everyone is confused as to what the government is trying to achieve by restricting access, or not.
As an adult, I have to have a mobile phone just to park the car to go shopping, or check my bills, or go banking (6 of the 8 local bank branches have closed in the last 10 years, despite the town now being 4x the size it was), or check my pensions, or figure out what day after a bank holiday that the bin men decide they're turning up (attendance correlation is below 50% btw), or book a visit to the local recycling centre, enter the gym, etc.
My children, at school age, need mobile phones to receive and submit their homework, get their marks and feedback, hold their timetable, get updates on lesson agendas. They need access to Youtube for some of the coursework, and third party sites (which contain quizzes/tests) to do some of the course/homework. All this apparently is part of the curriculum. The eldest was also required to have a laptop to take into school as part of their studies.
If I lose my phone or it gets damaged, i'm screwed until I can afford another, and then moving everything over to a new phone with new SIM, etc. is a nightmare - especially with 2FA requirements - taking days. If one of my children loses or damages their phone, I'll have to get another asap so they can keep up with homework and coursework and suffer with the same 2FA issues - so I have to keep some money aside just in case (which would be great if savings accounts had an interest rate worth a damn).
So the government, schools, banking sector, and local councils need to not just get their collective asses into gear and make a decision about minors and technology, but also how far the use of technology (especially phones) should go into everyone's everyday life, especially the essentials.
N.B. There are times I just don't want my phone with me. For example, gym time is my time and I don't want any interruptions from work, home, the latest scam riddled cold-callers, or be notified that a person I know via linkedIn has just had a roast dinner and been inspired to come up with some different way of working!!!! However, I have to take my phone for ID to enter, and to pay for the parking nearby. I can't just take a debit or credit card and a gym membership card like I used to - in fact parking used to be free and I just used to carry the membership card. The world seems to be turning into tracked, capitalistic, digital, shit!!!!
My children, at school age, need mobile phones to receive and submit their homework, get their marks and feedback, hold their timetable, get updates on lesson agendas. They need access to Youtube for some of the coursework, and third party sites (which contain quizzes/tests) to do some of the course/homework. All this apparently is part of the curriculum. The eldest was also required to have a laptop to take into school as part of their studies.
How much of that stuff do they need to do during school hours though?
That is after all what this article is about. It does go on to mention proposals to ban screen time in general but the title of the article is pretty clear:
England's school phone ban gets teeth, just in time to bite no one
Children need access to technology so that they hopefully learn how to use it to best effect. However when they are at school I think they should be paying attention to the teacher and the lesson. It would also be good if their parents/guardians were made more aware of the downsides and risks of too much exposure at too young an age.
From that list, the timetable would seem obviously necessary during school hours although it also seems the weakest option unless the schedule is constantly being changed and people just find out what they'll be doing every morning. The lesson agendas would also sound like they'd be used during class, likely instead of printing copies as happened when I was a student. The online quizzes could be homework or in-class material, but they happen frequently during class time, so I don't think those can be ruled out.
The question is not whether these things are necessary but whether they are currently being done, because until someone changes the system to avoid them, it does conflict with this policy.
So how exactly does this work? If a pupil uses a smartphone in class are they arrested for doing so? Is the teacher arrested for allowing it? The head teacher for inadequate sanctions? The governors for inadequate policy?
And what happens if the school does have a policy banning smartphones but sets the penalty at "saying good morning to your teacher" or something equally trivial?
This "policy" will play well with the deranged frothers of the BBC website's "Have Your Say" but is utterly irrelevant and unenforceable in real life. Schools also have policies against bullying.
